Please do something about water sieve and electrolyzer

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

49 minutes ago, leoroy said:

Main function in agreement with the name? Well.. I don't understand why you put a "No". It's a water sieve and it does turn PH2O in H2O so I guess it's alright?

Not if you are explicitly trying to generate as much as CO2 as possible to have that carbon skimmed so that you have poluted water from hot geyser water to cool it down to 40°C just like that. I know that most who know the trick try to make as much as polluted water as possible to get cooler water out of it.

So yeah, water sieve lquid output temperature should be based on temperature input. It just doesn't make sense that:

A) an instrument to filter water is primarily used to cool down water

B) is much more effective at it than the only other solution higher up the tech tree which requires much more power, cools way less down and actually does not delete the heat.

Again, there's a lot of dependency on the water sieve to cool your water. The moment Klei changes it, the forum boards will be in uproar how they cannot cool their water anymore. So changing the water sieve, which really would be a rightful change, should go hand in hand with more and better option to mass cool water. They got things right for cooling gasses: hydrofan, wheezeworts, AETN's. Cooling liquids needs a rethink.

[trukogre]

2 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Not if you are explicitly trying to generate as much as CO2 as possible to have that carbon skimmed so that you have poluted water from hot geyser water to cool it down to 40°C just like that. I know that most who know the trick try to make as much as polluted water as possible to get cooler water out of it.

 

I know the opposite to be true.  Now what?

[leoroy]

Just now, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Not if you are explicitly trying to generate as much as CO2 as possible to have that carbon skimmed so that you have poluted water from hot geyser water to cool it down to 40°C just like that. I know that most who know the trick try to make as much as polluted water as possible to get cooler water out of it.

True, but it doesn't change the fact that the main purpose of the building is purifying water (which it does), so the name is correct. It's not because aquatuner are sometime used to boil water that we should name them "water boiler". I'm pretty sure most people are using water sieve to sieve water, not to cool things down (but sadly it would be really hard to verify)

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Just now, trukogre said:

I know the opposite to be true.  Now what?

Lemme guess: I'll say the opposite is not true, you'll again claim it is, I will again claim what I say is true, and so on and so forth. A bothersome discussion I really don't have the energy to invest into.

Maybe next time try not to cherry pick the pieces out of my post and try to answer everything?

[trukogre]

1 minute ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Lemme guess: I'll say the opposite is not true, you'll again claim it is, I will again claim what I say is true, and so on and so forth. A bothersome discussion I really don't have the energy to invest into.

Maybe next time try not to cherry pick the pieces out of my post and try to answer everything?

That's the foundation of your post, and you haven't bothered to support it.  Without that claim, the rest of your post doesn't work, so it doesn't require answering.  If I copy your method of argument and don't support my claims either, then, as you note, it starts a bothersome discussion that no one has time for.  So...try again.

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Just now, trukogre said:

That's the foundation of your post, and you haven't bothered to support it.  If I copy your method of argument and don't support my claims either, then, as you note, it starts a bothersome discussion that no one has time for.  So...try again.

Oh sure, let's just ignore the 3/4 of the rest of the post and just call the 1/4th "the foundation". Go to town, man, go to town.

[nvzboy]

1 minute ago, leoroy said:

It's not because aquatuner are sometime used to boil water that we should name them "water boiler".

The description of the building reads: "Cools the liquid piped through it but outputs heat in its immediate viscinity." The building in this case is doing what is in the description. What you do with the heat that comes off of it is irrelevant, wether you use it to push heat into oil for space ejection cooling or to boil water or whatever it is you are doing.  

[trukogre]

4 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

Oh sure, let's just ignore the 3/4 of the rest of the post and just call the 1/4th "the foundation". Go to town, man, go to town.

Ok, if you really don't get it, I'll demonstrate:  

 

"So yeah, water sieve lquid output temperature should be based on temperature input."

this literally refers back to 'the foundation' with the 'so yeah'.

 

" an instrument to filter water is primarily used to cool down water"

 

This refers back to 'the foundation', which is where you argued for this being true, despite it not being true.

 

"is much more effective at it than the only other solution higher up the tech tree which requires much more power, cools way less down and actually does not delete the heat."

again, the "it" here refers to A, which was what your 'foundation' failed at proving.

 

"Again, there's a lot of dependency on the water sieve to cool your water."

 

This is just you repeating yourself., which you acknowledge.

 

"The moment Klei changes it, the forum boards will be in uproar how they cannot cool their water anymore. So changing the water sieve, which really would be a rightful change, should go hand in hand with more and better option to mass cool water. They got things right for cooling gasses: hydrofan, wheezeworts, AETN's. Cooling liquids needs a rethink."

 

This is your opinion on how to go forward, starting from 'the foundation' and then trying to fix the problem which you failed to prove in your 'foundation'.

 

The dependency on the rest of your post on your foundational assumption was so obvious that I doubt your sincerity at this point, but I humored you one time.

 

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Just now, trukogre said:

This is your opinion on how to go forward, starting from 'the foundation' and then trying to fix the problem which you failed to prove in your 'foundation'.

There's a wall over there you can talk to. You screwed yourself out of the pleasure to debate with me by trying to tell me what my "post foundation" is. Have fun.

[trukogre]

2 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

There's a wall over there you can talk to. You screwed yourself out of the pleasure to debate with me by trying to tell me what my "post foundation" is. Have fun.

Thanks for showing everyone here your true colors   I am sure I'll get over the lost pleasure somehow.  The structure of logical arguments is generally something like "assume A, B, C.  here are syllogisms If A and B, then D.  If B and D, then E.  I have proved E to be true."  When someone takes issue with someone else pointing out that B is controversial and shouldn't be assumed, thereby leaving a foundational hole in their argument, and then that person throws a tantrum because how dare anyone else tell them what the foundation of their own argument is, then that person has revealed themself to be fundamentally illogical and not a pleasure to 'debate'.  It's quite amusing to me how many people think logical debate is akin to exchanging deeply personal works of art, like collaborative oil painting, and then get offended by logical analysis of their points.  You don't own logic, it's not possible.  Enjoy your oil painting.

[blash365]

Do we seriously need to open youtube and list like 100 guides and lets plays about cooling in oni that involve water sieves as their central component?

[ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy]

Just now, leoroy said:

True, but it doesn't change the fact that the main purpose of the building is purifying water (which it does), so the name is correct. It's not because aquatuner are sometime used to boil water that we should name them "water boiler". I'm pretty sure most people are using water sieve to sieve water, not to cool things down (but sadly it would be really hard to verify)

I get your point, I truly do, but most are effectively filtering water to cool water down, not because they want filtered water per se.

Aquatuners make sense in my opinion. Yes, they are definitely used sometimes to boil water. They are also supposed to give off heat, It's not a bad point you make, but that feature looks so much more baked into it, sits in the discription and actually makes sense (and also you can't just cheaply delete heat).

[leoroy]

13 minutes ago, nvzboy said:

The description of the building reads: "Cools the liquid piped through it but outputs heat in its immediate viscinity." The building in this case is doing what is in the description. What you do with the heat that comes off of it is irrelevant, wether you use it to push heat into oil for space ejection cooling or to boil water or whatever it is you are doing.  

The sieve does what the description does too? It does in fact MORE then stated. Plus is doesn't change the fact that is is not because some people use a building in a kind of different way it was created for means the name does not match what it does? Even when you use the sieve to cool something, you MUST turn PH2O into H2O, which is intended. What you do with the byproduct of the transformation is up to you (as for the heat of the aquatuner).

 

And just to clarify, I'm against using sieve as cooling device too (Most of the time I sieve cold water lol).

[trukogre]

Just now, blash365 said:

Do we seriously need to open youtube and list like 100 guides and lets plays about cooling in oni that involve water sieves as their central component?

Umm, no?

[blash365]

Not judging quality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnw0Qzy5Wg

different variants: ww, aetn, ice biome or simply aquatuners in oil that will overheat eventually and water sieve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOEpsML_OcQ

water sieve ("the amount of cooling down liquid is ENORMOUS." "this is the most efficient way to cool down water." - brothgar)

6 minutes ago, trukogre said:

Umm, no?

Yeah, facts are so hard to argue against. But i am sure you will try.

 

 

[trukogre]

1 minute ago, blash365 said:

Not judging quality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnw0Qzy5Wg

different variants: ww, aetn, ice biome or simply aquatuners in oil that will overheat eventually and water sieve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOEpsML_OcQ

water sieve ("the amount of cooling down liquid is ENORMOUS." "this is the most efficient way to cool down water." - brothgar)

Yeah, facts are so hard to argue against. But i am sure you will try.

 

 

What facts?  What am I arguing against?

[blash365]

Just now, trukogre said:

What facts?

See? I knew you'd try. You are so predictable.

[trukogre]

Just now, blash365 said:

See? I knew you'd try. You are so predictable.

What in god's name are you talking about?  I'd try what?  Asking you what the heck you're talking about?  Yeah, ok, you got me, I'm asking you what the heck you're talking about.

[blash365]

Just now, trukogre said:

What in god's name are you talking about?

Let me know when you actually start to contribute to the thread instead of trying to troll people. Now go back to your wall, i am sure it misses you already.

[trukogre]

That's rude and unnecessary.

[leoroy]

Well, I don't want to break the party, but even if there was 1000+ youtube videos about how to use water sieve for cooling purpose you could not state that it is more used to cool bases then to purify water :/. But we could do a survey on forums!

 

Shall we do a survey?

[trukogre]

1 minute ago, leoroy said:

Well, I don't want to break the party, but even if there was 1000+ youtube videos about how to use water sieve for cooling purpose you could not state that it is more used to cool bases then to purify water :/. But we could do a survey on forums!

forum surveys are generally not all that representative of the actual playerbase of games, only the most dedicated players tend to visit forums frequently.

[leoroy]

Probably true... Then since we cannot have this information, we cannot answer the question "is sieve mostly used to cool or to purify". You'll have to find other argument to fight guys! (but be kind while doing so, I hate blood)

[trukogre]

1 minute ago, leoroy said:

Probably true... Then since we cannot have this information, we cannot answer the question "is sieve mostly used to cool or to purify". You'll have to find other argument to fight guys! (but be kind while doing so, I hate blood)

I'm not fighting that argument, I don't know the answer and I don't really care which way it goes.  I know that I mainly use it to purify and that's about it.

[leoroy]

18 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

I get your point, I truly do, but most are effectively filtering water to cool water down, not because they want filtered water per se.

Aquatuners make sense in my opinion. Yes, they are definitely used sometimes to boil water. They are also supposed to give off heat, It's not a bad point you make, but that feature looks so much more baked into it, sits in the discription and actually makes sense (and also you can't just cheaply delete heat).

Sorry I had not notice your message! Yup, I feel you too, I do agree that the sieve is way easier, overpower compared to other solutions.