BlueLance Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Parusoid said: Nat gas geyser, spews out gas at 150 C How much gas is yours throwing out? and are you automating it to only use it once its over 2kg? WHOOP PAGE 5 First! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parusoid Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, BlueLance said: How much gas is yours throwing out? and are you automating it to only use it once its over 2kg? WHOOP PAGE 5 First! I used to automate it, but i have high nat gas demand so i disabled the automation and use it whnever there is gas aviable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Just now, Parusoid said: I used to automate it, but i have high nat gas demand so i disabled the automation and use it whnever there is gas aviable If u leave it so there is 2kg in it then its the same thing. all you miss out on is the 2kg buffer at the beggining, after the room is filled with 2kg any excess gas would be pumped out. but it stays cool, you are also wasting energy by pumping out packets that are smaller than 500g doing it that way. Sure you would have 128kg of gas in there that you will never use because it is keeping everything cool. but you wont notice or miss it beause any gas that comes out after that is going to be used. Think of filling a glass of water, once it is full it overflows, after it is overflowing you are getting all of the water the only water you are not getting is what is in the glass, but who cares since you are getting the same amount of water per second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parusoid Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, BlueLance said: If u leave it so there is 2kg in it then its the same thing. all you miss out on is the 2kg buffer at the beggining, after the room is filled with 2kg any excess gas would be pumped out. but it stays cool, you are also wasting energy by pumping out packets that are smaller than 500g doing it that way. Sure you would have 128kg of gas in there that you will never use because it is keeping everything cool. but you wont notice or miss it beause any gas that comes out after that is going to be used. Think of filling a glass of water, once it is full it overflows, after it is overflowing you are getting all of the water the only water you are not getting is what is in the glass, but who cares since you are getting the same amount of water per second. Not using 128kg of gas is halting my power, since nat gas power generators are the only ones i have and they are already running on fumes. If my calculations are correct, i am getting 53 g/s at all times from that geyser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunru Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Parusoid said: Not using 128kg of gas is halting my power, since nat gas power generators are the only ones i have and they are already running on fumes. No no, the point is that your power won't be halved at all. You currently have (numbers are simplified for my sake) 0g of natural gas in the area, with a nat gas geyser that's entire output is being used topower your generators. The only difference setting the pumps to only run above 2kg makes (other than a brief period of power loss) is that you habe 2kg of natural gas in the area, all that the nat gas geyser produces is still being used up by the generators. EDIT: Reread and see you said "halting", not "halving". Still, it's only a period of power loss while the gas builds up. Disabling the automation was a mistake in the first place because of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Parusoid said: Not using 128kg of gas is halting my power, since nat gas power generators are the only ones i have and they are already running on fumes. If my calculations are correct, i am getting 53 g/s at all times from that geyser Once your room fills up you would still be getting 53g/s You can shrink the room the effect will be the same but you will still only get 53g/s the only difference is if u leave the room with a threshold you will only be pumping 500g packets which saves you energy. Since instead of using 10 seconds of energy to pump 530g you are using 1 second of energy to pump 500g. So 240W vs 2400W. Your generator is producing 800W, so using less energy is a lot better than having it running for ages pumping virtually no gas, and cooking your pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parusoid Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 @Yunru @BlueLance Yeah i get the point that the gas per second is still the same. I just dont know whats the point of just letting 128 kg of gas sit there and not being used. Waiting for the room to fill up is literally suffocating my dupes since elocrolyzer is not working without nat gas power generator running. And the pump is overheating because of the surrounding hot gas, not because its running. And the whole point of my previous posts was that the two wheezworst (that are in BluNaces setup) are not keeping up with cooling down the nat gas so it does not burn my pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Mandor Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Parusoid said: Not using 128kg of gas is halting my power, since nat gas power generators are the only ones i have and they are already running on fumes. If my calculations are correct, i am getting 53 g/s at all times from that geyser You will have same 53g/s. Well, to cool something down you need coolant. It can be same gas, cooled by Wort, this is simplest obvious solution. Or it can be something else. You can make some metallic chamber, filled with hydrogen cooled by couple of WW. Or, if you do not have hydrogen, you can fill chamber with same natural gas. And remove metallic chamber - no need to separate Nat gas from itself. Oh, wait, it is same solution Wait, does it clear, how Wheezeworts works? It take gas from bottom cell and push it to top cell 5° colder. If it is 10 grams - it cools 10 grams, if it is 1 kg - it cools 1 kg. So you need about 2 kg of gas to efficiently use Wheezewort. You can make chamber small, you need minimum 19 cells (8 takes geiser, 4 pump, 1 atmo-sensor and 3 each Wheezewort), so only 38 kg of Nat gas will be conserved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Parusoid said: @Yunru @BlueLance I just dont know whats the point of just letting 128 kg of gas sit there and not being used. And the pump is overheating because of the surrounding hot gas The point of leaving an amount of gas is so that your pump does not melt. The wheezworts cool down 1kg packets at a time, so you could probably reduce the gas per tile to 1kg. The 53g/s coming out at 150C has no hope in hell of heating up the cold gas you already have in the room. But having your pumps constantly pumping anything less than 500g is just a massive waste of energy as well and could very well help reduce the stress on your electrical grid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parusoid Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, BlueLance said: The 53g/s coming out at 150C has no hope in hell of heating up the cold gas you already have in the room I also forgot to mention that i use the same room as a storage for gas from fert makers and oil refinery. Gas from there is not much and lower temp but still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 My build will only work if you let it get some pressure in the room. The 2kg pressure is enough to cool the gas coming out of the geyser which results in your pump not being cooked, the same 2kg pressure threshold also means that your pump is only going to pump 500g packets which is a massive saving in power compared to pumping out smaller amounts. Your current pump at most would take at maximum 179.9g per packet for 240W. Your pump will then begin to take less and less gas per second for the same 240W per second. If you left a minimum amount of gas above 1kg and cuts off when its below it then your pump will at maximum pump out 500g for 240W, and for every second it would pump 500g for 240W until the pressure drops. 179.9g versus 500g is Triple the efficiency. But as time goes on your pumps efficiency goes down more and more. Once you begin pumping less than 30g (Pretty sure its 30g) packets you are actually consuming more energy pumping the gas than your generator can provide it to even WORK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huldu Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I've played the game for a few days and liking it. Ran into all kinds of issues that ended up in my demise. I've been able to deal with them one by one until I hit temperature. It's a slow and insidious killer. I've tried moving closer and closer to the snow area and I was thinking of pumping air from over there, it has failed 3 times now, by the time I get there it's already over. I just don't understand how you guys are getting fuel, water, food etc without running out eventually. I've built a few rooms with hatchlings, even had a room with puffers for slime. The slime I got from them didn't do much at all so I'd assume you need a *lot* of them. Anyways long story short, I downloaded a save game from some random guy... and it was seriously one of those "wtf" moments. I'm going to be completely honest after I saw that save I just lost interest in playing. The game was only at cycle 60 and it had everything perfectly optimized with buildings I haven't even seen yet. I get it, I truly do, you play a lot you learn all kinds of tricks and "exploits". Still it was just like I've been playing a completely different game. Just reading this thread makes me realize that I'm in way over my head playing this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angpaur Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 @huldu don't get discouraged. At the beginning we are are noobs. It takes some time to master things and espacially in this game, to understand how game mechanics works and what is a best way to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, huldu said: I've played the game for a few days and liking it. Ran into all kinds of issues that ended up in my demise. I've been able to deal with them one by one until I hit temperature. It's a slow and insidious killer. I've tried moving closer and closer to the snow area and I was thinking of pumping air from over there, it has failed 3 times now, by the time I get there it's already over. I just don't understand how you guys are getting fuel, water, food etc without running out eventually. I've built a few rooms with hatchlings, even had a room with puffers for slime. The slime I got from them didn't do much at all so I'd assume you need a *lot* of them. Anyways long story short, I downloaded a save game from some random guy... and it was seriously one of those "wtf" moments. I'm going to be completely honest after I saw that save I just lost interest in playing. The game was only at cycle 60 and it had everything perfectly optimized with buildings I haven't even seen yet. I get it, I truly do, you play a lot you learn all kinds of tricks and "exploits". Still it was just like I've been playing a completely different game. Just reading this thread makes me realize that I'm in way over my head playing this game. There is no such thing as way in over your head!! I think its just experience is the only difference, I will be totally honest with you I used to get bored around about cycle 150 and just start again over and over again. So my builds are based on past experiences and I believe if you just try new things, you will enjoy it more and more. I decided to start experimenting and before I knew it my current base is at 621 cycles. The biggest difference between then and now is I used to accept every single dupe I could. But Now i only accept dupes I need until I have an infrastructure. Build, Die, Learn, Repeat Currently I am battling with temperature as well, and quite frankly I am unsure if I will survive much longer. Also, even though you seen someone elses base, it doesnt mean you have to do it that way, it is all down to what you want to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abud Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Parusoid said: Waiting for the room to fill up is literally suffocating my dupes since elocrolyzer is not working without nat gas power generator running. If you depend on NGG for power, better have oil boiler ASAP. Because depend on natgas geyser only is hard (at least for me). It can be the simplest oil boiler ever, still left many unused natgas. I used to "boiling oil in tungsten over magma" without any special buildings in Ranch II. Now in cosmic, I have simple oil boiler with heat from iron volcano. 7 minutes ago, huldu said: after I saw that save I just lost interest in playing Spoiler is BAD! hahaha. At least for me. I join the forum after manage to handle all basic problems. Just play at your own pace. If you have difficulty figuring something out, you can ask people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 41 minutes ago, huldu said: Anyways long story short, I downloaded a save game from some random guy... and it was seriously one of those "wtf" moments. I'm going to be completely honest after I saw that save I just lost interest in playing. The game was only at cycle 60 and it had everything perfectly optimized with buildings I haven't even seen yet. I get it, I truly do, you play a lot you learn all kinds of tricks and "exploits". Still it was just like I've been playing a completely different game. Just reading this thread makes me realize that I'm in way over my head playing this game. You need some experience with ONI. Perfectly organizing comes after that point.. ONI is complicated and the additional micro for tasks/prios/jobs is sometimes *argh*, but i still like that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Parusoid said: Waiting for the room to fill up is literally suffocating my dupes since elocrolyzer is not working without nat gas power generator running. Set up 1 hamster wheel, it will give you more energy than what your pump would be giving your generator due to the packets being smaller, but no seriously let the pressure build up, set up hamster wheels. once it hits 2k let it do its job with the automation, you will use less energy in the long run and have cold gas to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoroy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Use coal maybe? You probably have tons of it just waiting to be burn. You can even keep two generators in case your NGGs are lacking fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parusoid Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, leoroy said: Use coal maybe? You probably have tons of it just waiting to be burn. You can even keep two generators in case your NGGs are lacking fuel. already burned all coal as i moved from coal to nat gas. hatches does not keep up with producing more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoroy Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Whoooo, aren't you a bit power-hungry haha? I would be curious to know your cycles count and dupes number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanderingKid Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Parusoid said: already burned all coal as i moved from coal to nat gas. hatches does not keep up with producing more I agree with that in general. I find hatches to be more a supply support for carbon for steel than trying to stay in enough power for a specific asteroid. But there's huge volumes of coal on the map. I'm surprised you would need it unless you've got a huge dupe count and a huge cycle value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parusoid Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, leoroy said: Whoooo, aren't you a bit power-hungry haha? I would be curious to know your cycles count and dupes number 2 minutes ago, WanderingKid said: unless you've got a huge dupe count and a huge cycle value it was 12 dupes and cycle 180-ish, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WanderingKid Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Just now, Parusoid said: it was 12 dupes and cycle 180-ish, A couple of digs in the caustic/jungle biome should net you a few containers worth of coal, unless you've got a really bad seed. In general I don't power my electrolizers with anything but Hydrogen, but I do need to support them with a bit of Coal when they I'm doing a lot of O2 pushing. For NGGs, I used to do like you, where I'd just wipe it out as soon as it was available. I've come to the conclusion that having that buffer of gas just sitting there, waiting for the next eruption, makes everything else in the room just behave itself better. The buffer doesn't usually cost me much, as when I first get to an NG Geyser, it's typically maxed off at 5kg/cell. I try to stage my systems for Hydrogen first, NG next, Petro third, Coal last. I add that last one in because I typically work with oil the worst way possible, with refineries, because that's a faster build organization then finding then manipulating a volcano of some kind. I still don't have a 'good' design, but a few working ones. But since this topic is basically about heat, are you using all that power for coolant systems? The reason I ask is because if you can cool down the Nat Gas before you use it, the machine will run cooler because the outputs for the CO2 and the PH2O are both related to temperature of the input gas, so you end up cooling the machine off with the PH2O, which you can then use in other places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLance Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Parusoid said: it was 12 dupes and cycle 180-ish, Are you using smart batteries on the nat gas gen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parusoid Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 21 minutes ago, WanderingKid said: are you using all that power for coolant systems The only coolant i used for nat gas was the two wheezworts i really suck at cooling down things, deleting heat using radiants, anti enthropy machine, reusing cold elemnts to coold down hot strctures... its just too much for me at this level of my skills. I know the theories but im not able to effectively put them to practice 19 minutes ago, BlueLance said: Are you using smart batteries on the nat gas gen? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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