Ugh the Heat! Can't deal with that!

[TOOK14]

3 hours ago, Parusoid said:

So you keep all your power sources connected in one place? 

This is my power grid, the horizontal hevi wire at the bottom is my "starter" power plant, where I first centralize my power grid, then I run it up through a stack of transformers that I then use to power the map.  The hevi wires running off screen top and bottom are connecting to other power plants, natgas and petrol on the bottom, solar up top, and steam turbines wherever I find volcanoes.  This particular save is my test world, so things are slightly cleaner than they otherwise might be.

[Parusoid]

@TOOK14 I wonder why you use regular battery "after" your power transformer in addition to smart battery "before" power transformer that sends on and off signal generator. Shouldnt the smart battery be enough? 

[TOOK14]

The regular batteries are for raw storage, as they have twice the capacity of smart batteries.  Also, something I learned on this forum awhile back, transformers are weird in that they can technically output 1kW x4.  So if you run something that needs more than 1kW, like an aquatuner, it won't work, unless you have a battery "booster" on the same wire, even though the transformer technically should have no problem on its own.  It also gives each wire an isolated power reserve, so if you run low on power, your low power systems can run much longer.

Also, normal batteries on the same wire as smart batteries mess with the smart batteries control of your total power, since they have different total capacity.

[WanderingKid]

1 hour ago, TOOK14 said:

Also, normal batteries on the same wire as smart batteries mess with the smart batteries control of your total power, since they have different total capacity.

That is why you use a smart battery on the small side of a transformer.  It saves you heat by turning off the transformer while you run down the smart battery alone.  I typically set mine to 20/100 on the smart batteries.

[TOOK14]

hmmm, good idea, a bit heavy on the refined metal for my setup, but definitely a worthy investment late game.

[WanderingKid]

7 minutes ago, TOOK14 said:

hmmm, good idea, a bit heavy on the refined metal for my setup, but definitely a worthy investment late game.

I typically only use it for the 1.2kw items.  Metal Forge, Aquatuner, those guys.  It's worth the investment for the couple of pieces involved, in my opinion.

[TOOK14]

I'm more interested in curbing the heat buildup in my transformer stack, as transformers are a significant heat source, especially in the numbers I use.

[WanderingKid]

25 minutes ago, TOOK14 said:

I'm more interested in curbing the heat buildup in my transformer stack, as transformers are a significant heat source, especially in the numbers I use.

My goodness, is that ALL refined wires?

Quick and easy is to fill the stack with Hydrogen and shove a Wheezewort or two in there, and perhaps some tempshift plates to level it off.  More efficient *eventually* would be to use a smart battery on the small side of each transformer and shut off the transformer for a while, as a smart battery has a lot less heat than either a battery or the transformer.  I personally typically bring my trasnsformers relatively close to their heat sources, so they borrow cooling from that, but it's hit or miss as to how useful that is sometimes.

[TOOK14]

Yes they are, I start with normal wire OC, but as I get refined metal in, I slowly transition all of my wiring, and it is something I do recommend for late game, as it will actually save you material in the long run as you build big power hogs like aquatuners and glass forges.  Also I like having easy access to the transformer stack, mostly because it's a very drawn out, multi-stage process to go from starter base, to centralized power, to full refined wire running all over the map.

[abud]

Currently, raw metal is not-renewable (but abundant enough). Refined metal is... falling from the sky.

 

[Coolthulhu]

9 hours ago, TOOK14 said:

I'm more interested in curbing the heat buildup in my transformer stack, as transformers are a significant heat source, especially in the numbers I use.

Drop the batteries, only use smart ones and only for regulation instead of storage. This alone will more than halve your transformer heat production.

Storage is wasteful, idling generators aren't.

[Argelle]

12 hours ago, WanderingKid said:

That is why you use a smart battery on the small side of a transformer.  It saves you heat by turning off the transformer while you run down the smart battery alone.  I typically set mine to 20/100 on the smart batteries.

Damned, not sticking the automation control of smart battery to the generator? (as I do)

@WanderingKid   What do you do to prevent genrators to run for nothing? (say batteries full, consumption zero, all transformer off, generators will run pointelesssly, no?)

[Riksis]

30 minutes ago, Argelle said:

Damned, not sticking the automation control of smart battery to the generator? (as I do)

@WanderingKid   What do you do to prevent genrators to run for nothing? (say batteries full, consumption zero, all transformer off, generators will run pointelesssly, no?)

I have smart batteries on all circuits:

• Small transformer side switches off transformer.
• Main circuit side switches off generator.

I stagger my generators with multiple smart batteries, one  activates if below 60%, another one if below 40% and all available generators if below 20%.

I don't know if this is actually necessary, but I am unsure about possible delays on activation of the generators. That way the capacity drop on the main circuit gets slower with low battery levels.

[BlueLance]

20 hours ago, Parusoid said:

So you keep all your power sources connected in one place? 

I do, My power grid has 6 smart batteries, each battery controls a power type (Coal, Steam, Hydrogen, Nat Gas, Petroleum and Dupe/Solar) all of which are located inside my base (Except steam which is wherever my heat source is and solar...surface duh)

I could use 1 smart battery which would switch them all on at the same time, but I like to have mine staggered because I generally have an excess of Hydrogen but if i do not continue burning it then it spills out of my electrolyzer build.

I then have a smart battery wherever I have an aquatuner.

I also use a smart battery for every single geyser that I use. These do not connect to my power grid at all and are either self sufficient or coal powered.

[Parusoid]

1 hour ago, BlueLance said:

I also use a smart battery for every single geyser that I use. These do not connect to my power grid at all and are either self sufficient or coal powered.

You mean like hydrogen or nat gas gayser? So you have generators hooked up to gayser, correct? How do you deal with dormant phase 

[BlueLance]

6 hours ago, Parusoid said:

You mean like hydrogen or nat gas gayser? So you have generators hooked up to gayser, correct? How do you deal with dormant phase 

@Parusoid I have updated the horrible picture

I don't care about the dormancy, I have excess power all the time, so dormancy doesn't affect me since my system just gets more power stored he longer it runs.

The input from the geysers is sent straight to my base and put into storage.

If the geyser is dormant then the pump is not pumping, and each system has a jumpstarter (Hamsterwheel) just in case.

So my set up for Nat Gas and Hydrogen from geysers is the same, it is 8x8 in size, contains a pump and 2 wheezeworts, and an AND logic connected to an Atmo sensor looking for 2kg+ and a temperature sensor looking for 100C or below. If the conditions are met it then begins to pump the gas, a bridge takes some of the gas to the connected generator. All the other gas goes to my bases storage tanks. 

The system itself is not connected to my base by anything other than the pipe bringing the gas in. and the pipe leading to its generator is long enough to refill the battery if it fully drains due to energy decay.

[Denisetwin]

12 hours ago, Argelle said:

On 6/28/2018 at 1:05 PM, WanderingKid said:

That is why you use a smart battery on the small side of a transformer.  It saves you heat by turning off the transformer while you run down the smart battery alone.  I typically set mine to 20/100 on the smart batteries.

Damned, not sticking the automation control of smart battery to the generator? (as I do)

@WanderingKid   What do you do to prevent genrators to run for nothing? (say batteries full, consumption zero, all transformer off, generators will run pointelesssly, no?)

He probably does what I do, I have a Smart Battery connected to the generator and a smart battery AFTER the small side of the transformer connected to the transformer.  Works like a treat.  The Smart Battery outputs significantly less heat that the transformer, so having it turn off the transformer saves heat output.

 

[WanderingKid]

2 hours ago, Denisetwin said:

He probably does what I do, I have a Smart Battery connected to the generator and a smart battery AFTER the small side of the transformer connected to the transformer.  Works like a treat.  The Smart Battery outputs significantly less heat that the transformer, so having it turn off the transformer saves heat output.

That's correct.  @Argelle, I use smart batteries for my generators to control when they activate, as well as small side smart batteries for heavy power consumption devices, like an Aquatuner.

So my power area ends up looking like this:

So this shot (which is more about the mushroom but has my usual main power trunk) shows my generators each having a separate logic for each generator.  Ignore the ore scrubbers, I was trying out something and it was a bad idea.

 

[TOOK14]

So I made the swap to full smart batteries, every transformer and nearly every power source is connected to them, and the results are very good.

Sorry for the poor video quality, but it gets the point across.  The vertical line of transformers are what I wire EVERYTHING back to, and the horizontal control line at the bottom is attached to nearly all of my generators, save hamster wheels, steam turbines, and my shine bug rooms off screen up top.  The transformers are now rarely on, save the highest draw circuits, which actually ends up saving significant power and heat, and I have 0 overproduction.  On average this base uses 2,800kJ a day, with only an average 9kJ loss due to batteries.

[Argelle]

3 hours ago, TOOK14 said:

So I made the swap to full smart batteries, every transformer and nearly every power source is connected to them, and the results are very good.

(...)  The vertical line of transformers are what I wire EVERYTHING back to, and the horizontal control line at the bottom is attached to nearly all of my generators, save hamster wheels, steam turbines, and my shine bug rooms off screen up top.  The transformers are now rarely on, save the highest draw circuits, which actually ends up saving significant power and heat, and I have 0 overproduction.  On average this base uses 2,800kJ a day, with only an average 9kJ loss due to batteries.

Thanks very much for the examples, @Denisetwin  @WanderingKid  @TOOK14

So, set up can be more complex than I thought

Small side, smart batterie-transformer do seem imperative (draw on the battery, no need for transformer if some kJ left).

Heavy side, it looks to me that smart batteries are for fine regulation of generators (nat gen first, coal as a back up, something like that), but can be omitted, no? I came up with a regulation where all generators are fire up if at least one battery is low. Any draw back? (I have plenty of nat gas and coal, so I do not see why prioritize the generators).

Legend: Small side batteries regulate transformer but also (with OR gate) to generators.

[WanderingKid]

2 hours ago, Argelle said:

Heavy side, it looks to me that smart batteries are for fine regulation of generators (nat gen first, coal as a back up, something like that), but can be omitted, no? I came up with a regulation where all generators are fire up if at least one battery is low. Any draw back? (I have plenty of nat gas and coal, so I do not see why prioritize the generators).

For me, it has to do with keeping heat and/or waste down.  Hydrogen Generators are my primary energy source because there's no waste and their basically heat free.  NatGas generators will be second on the list, because they're typically away from my main power trunk.  Coal I use last, because it not only gives me a warning that I'm pushing too much power but because the dump a lot of heat and CO2 out.

[Argelle]

@WanderingKid you do not end up having too much oxygen produced by using hydogen generators? (O² production >> H²)

[WanderingKid]

1 hour ago, Argelle said:

@WanderingKid you do not end up having too much oxygen produced by using hydogen generators? (O² production >> H²)

Nah.  I expect around 5/8's of an Electrolizer to actually do work, so I expect them to fill about 5 dupes per Electrolizer.  I typically aim for 20-25 dupes in the base, so I run four of them in the center base.  I let the Hydrogen feed the base first, then something else usually has to step in depending on how much power the system requires.  This is one of my setups.  I've been tinkering with it off and on, so there's a few different versions.

 

 

[leoroy]

On 6/29/2018 at 6:13 AM, Parusoid said:

You mean like hydrogen or nat gas gayser? So you have generators hooked up to gayser, correct? How do you deal with dormant phase 

If you need to store some gas for dormant phases, you can try this easy and almost power-free setup :

I use the same pump to feed my NGG and to store the excess of NatGas. If the gas drops below 2.5Kg, doors open and release the highly pressurized room

Spoiler

.

 

[TOOK14]

12 hours ago, Argelle said:

Small side, smart batterie-transformer do seem imperative (draw on the battery, no need for transformer if some kJ left).

Heavy side, it looks to me that smart batteries are for fine regulation of generators (nat gen first, coal as a back up, something like that), but can be omitted, no? I came up with a regulation where all generators are fire up if at least one battery is low. Any draw back? (I have plenty of nat gas and coal, so I do not see why prioritize the generators).

I prioritize the gens for two reasons, you only need one smart battery to control all of your gens, and batteries slowly lose power even with no draw.  I find just having the gens on a smart battery gives you 0 overproduction, as soon as you do it(I set it at 10-70), vs minimizing draw by putting a smart battery after every transformer.