Ugh the Heat! Can't deal with that!

[TOOK14]

I haven't measured it since I'm still working on it, but not enough so far, about enough to sustain 2-4 mealwood plants.  The steam backup is hurting a surprising amount.

[Parusoid]

@TOOK14 and how do you prevent crude oil (that is cooled by aqatuner) from freezeing?

[Denisetwin]

3 hours ago, Parusoid said:

Exosuits are really expensive for me oxygen-wise so i try to delay it. I need refined metal, gold amalgam just does not seem enough especielay when i do not venture that far away to dig up every bit of metal from whole map

I used to have that issue, but here is what I do now, as soon as I find a clean hot water source and I have the appropriate tech.

Use the Rock Granulator to get enough refined metal to make two smart batteries. At least a full screen below your base and close to a polluted water pool, build a coal generator and put a smart battery controlling it.  Using heavy watt power lines to connect to the coal generator, build a metal refinery above the polluted water pool, put a second smart battery beside it, (you will need two as the refinery draws 1200 watts, one coal is 600 and you want to be able to run it for a little bit before it drains the two batteries)  Build a liquid pump in the polluted water, connect to the refinery, and connect it all with heavy watt lines.  You will be able to run the metal refinery for short periods of time before the batteries drain, and because the polluted water will off gas by the metal refinery, your dupes can run it without an exosuit at first and since you are only running for short periods of time and only need a bit of refined metal early game this set up works.  This can all be build as soon as you have researched the appropriate tech very early in the game.    Then, to solve the oxygen issue, build a very small enclosed SPOM and do not worry about the oxygen temp, build this again at least a screen away from your base and beside wherever your nearest hot water source is.  I use the SPOM to power the liquid pump for the hot water, build a manual generator to get the whole thing started but then it will work fine. You'll have some refined metal by now and you can prepare it to become a cooled SPOM later if you like.  You do NOT want this hot oxygen going to your base, it should all go straight to the exosuit docks.  Be careful not to run the hot oxygen gas pipes near your base, best to use insulated pipes.  Once you've explored and have some spare wheezies, you can convert the SPOM to an oxygen cooled one and then it is useful in your base.    

Hope this gives you some ideas.  I used to never build exosuits until late mid-game, now I can build them fairly early. 

 

[WanderingKid]

3 hours ago, Argelle said:

Do you have a screen as to how you set thermo cooler up?

Here's an example of a setup I use for CO2 and Chlorine liquidizers that use Thermo Regulators.  They use 240w, so a regular wire fits in there. The wheezeworts control the heat in the building and keep it cooling for free when the regulator is inactive.  You only really care about the rightmost cell where the Thermo Regulator sits, as the rest is a bunch of parts to make cooling the system more accurate.

[Parusoid]

31 minutes ago, WanderingKid said:

Here's an example of a setup I use for CO2 and Chlorine liquidizers that use Thermo Regulators.  They use 240w, so a regular wire fits in there. The wheezeworts control the heat in the building and keep it cooling for free when the regulator is inactive.  You only really care about the rightmost cell where the Thermo Regulator sits, as the rest is a bunch of parts to make cooling the system more accurate.

What do you need liquid chlorine and co2 for?

[Coolthulhu]

4 hours ago, Parusoid said:

I do not have plastic yet or the oil biome discovered because it introduces a lot of things with additional heat managment and im scared

Oil refinement introduces a big heat sink: the refinery produces 75C gas and petroleum.

You don't need to produce tons of plastic early on and you don't need any active cooling if you just want 500kg of it. Just drip some water/oil on the plastic press and shut it down when you have enough.

[Parusoid]

1 minute ago, Coolthulhu said:

Oil refinement introduces a big heat sink: the refinery produces 75C gas and petroleum.

You don't need to produce tons of plastic early on and you don't need any active cooling if you just want 500kg of it. Just drip some water/oil on the plastic press and shut it down when you have enough.

how is a 75c gas a heat sink? 

[WanderingKid]

51 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

What do you need liquid chlorine and co2 for?

I don't, I need to get rid of it.  It's in the way, so it stores much better at a ~900kg/tile than 8kg/tile.  Instead of using a skimmer/sieve system, I just stick it all into storage until I want it.

However, the thermo regulator is the only piece of that system most folks would want to use for base cooling.  Cool the base with Hydrogen in pipes, and use a wheezewort to cool the thermo regulator.

[Coolthulhu]

42 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

how is a 75c gas a heat sink? 

The input oil can safely be 125C. Anything below 70C is livable area for dupes and hatches. Preventing that 5C heat creep is much easier than dealing with steam.

Having cold (<120C) natgas means you can seal your natgas generators and never have them overheat, because their input gas cools them.

[Parusoid]

4 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

The input oil can safely be 125C

So oil refinery outputs nat gas and petroleum always at 75c regardles of the input?

5 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

Having cold (<120C) natgas means you can seal your natgas generators

Do you mean geysers, fertilizer synthesizers or what? 

I told that oil biome introduces a lot new challenges with heat managment, so i dont know how having 75c can somehow help me fight with the fear of failure over the heat?

[Coolthulhu]

5 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

So oil refinery outputs nat gas and petroleum always at 75c regardles of the input?

Yes

5 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

Do you mean geysers, fertilizer synthesizers or what?

Power plants.

They heat up less than coal ones.

6 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

I told that oil biome introduces a lot new challenges with heat managment, so i dont know how having 75c can somehow help me fight with the fear of failure over the heat?

You could just "dip" into the biome for plastic, then seal it with insulated tiles. Or just build a long corridor/shaft to the oil biome, then line it up with insulated tiles. 1 tile width tunnel won't transfer much heat.

Though if that 75C is a problem for you, you may have bigger problems in your base. Problems like relying on plants instead of ranching early on, not using enough exosuits, trying to use non-isolated abyssalite as it was pre-nerf (nowadays insulated non-abyssalite is usually better than non-insulated abyssalite), keeping a large array of batteries instead of 1 smart+automation per sub-network (until you set up the heavy wire).

The most important thing is probably to drop the plants until you're sure you can support them. Start mass-ranching hatches until you run out of waste rock.

[Parusoid]

31 minutes ago, Coolthulhu said:

Start mass-ranching hatches until you run out of waste rock.

for coal or eggs? what rock is waste rock?

 

[WanderingKid]

14 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

for coal or eggs? what rock is waste rock?

 

The coal is free, but if you're looking to get away from plants (other than mealwood and mushrooms) you're looking for eggs for omelets.  The extra coal will just give you a longer run time before you have to go to an alternate energy source.

Waste rock is typically Sedimentary, obsidian, and until there's a use for it, mafic.  You typically will have a few hundred extra tons of Igneous, too.

[Parusoid]

1 hour ago, Coolthulhu said:

keeping a large array of batteries instead of 1 smart+automation per sub-network (until you set up the heavy wire)

Can you elaborate? Currently im using two smart batteries per one power transformer

[Coolthulhu]

6 minutes ago, Parusoid said:

Can you elaborate? Currently im using two smart batteries per one power transformer

You want all your power sources (other than manual generators) to be automated, to prevent any excessive production.

You shouldn't have any more batteries than the ones needed for automation, and buffering for 1200W buildings. It's better to have more generators idling but ready to be turned on than batteries storing extra power.

[TOOK14]

7 hours ago, Parusoid said:

@TOOK14 and how do you prevent crude oil (that is cooled by aqatuner) from freezeing?

The thermo sensor attached to the pump in the oil tank is set to above 0, so if the oil is ever below 0c, it won't pump, the aquatuner stops working, and the heat will slowly move from the tuner to the oil tank.  It's not ideal, but it is failsafe as oil freezes at -40c.  I'm thinking of having a radiant pipe run though the oil tank to be a heat sink for a radiator system.

3 hours ago, Parusoid said:

Can you elaborate? Currently im using two smart batteries per one power transformer

I run the automation wire from one smart battery, behind my transformers(on the hevi wire with the power plants), to my main power plants, so when it fills, it stops the power plants immediately, so there's 100% no chance of wasted power.  I set it to turn off at 70% just to be safe, and I have a battery in front of each transformer(on the small wire) as my main power storage, and I use a fully centralized power grid.

[Carnis]

Dont give your obsidian to hatches. Obsidian is preciously rare and needed with magma ladders.

Hatches for food is about as expensive as you can go as far as mass / calories. 140kg/cycle/ 1/6 of an egg. = 1000kg Stone/egg.

If you want easy calories its still dusk caps with farmstation. 6kg slime+7.5kg fertiliser / duplicant / cycle. Slime is abundant and doesnt offgas inside liquids / walls with conveyor.

[TOOK14]

Puft ranch+2 mushroom greenhouses can and have way more than fed 16 dupes for over 1k cycles for me, assuming nothing else fails.

I used to feed hatches dirt and fertilizer, but with the cosmic re-balance, I'm not so sure that's the best idea anymore, but you are pretty safe feeding them sedimentary rock, that stuff is useless AFAIK.

TBH the main way I deal with heat is gathering every wheeze on the map and trying to make the most of them.  Aside from that I always set up a liquid cooling tank next to every thermo nullifier, either for geyser water or for an oil based radiator system.

[WanderingKid]

32 minutes ago, Carnis said:

Dont give your obsidian to hatches. Obsidian is preciously rare and needed with magma ladders.

Hatches for food is about as expensive as you can go as far as mass / calories. 140kg/cycle/ 1/6 of an egg. = 1000kg Stone/egg.

If you want easy calories its still dusk caps with farmstation. 6kg slime+7.5kg fertiliser / duplicant / cycle. Slime is abundant and doesnt offgas inside liquids / walls with conveyor.

What are you building that you need obsidian but can avoid abyssalite for?  The occasional use for that would be pretty rare in my experience, needing access to volcanic activity or similar concerns.  In most cases, ceramic should suffice if you're running a bit hot against igneous rock.  However, I won't argue it's the most unmeltable rock for ladders available, besides Abyssalite.  Just wouldn't have enough use cases for me that I'd worry about using it in bulk for something.

The cost/egg for hatch is reasonably beneficial compared to their breeding time.  By the time you worry about junk stone you can start hauling the comet debris in.  It's mostly cost per dupe time in getting one into a ranch in the first place before you're in trouble with food.  So, I agree, Mushrooms are the best early game food to worry about.  I don't even bother with fertilizer stations.  Just plant more of them, slime is cheap.  It's 2 shrooms/dupe fertilized, 3 shrooms/dupe unfertilized.  Get more dusk caps by strip mining the swamp biome.

[BlueLance]

Obsidian used to be good cuz you could use it to make a radiator in lava to transfer the heat elsewhere, now we can make radiant pipes which wont melt out of tungsten etc. 

[Carnis]

1 hour ago, WanderingKid said:

What are you building that you need obsidian but can avoid abyssalite for?  The occasional use for that would be pretty rare in my experience, needing access to volcanic activity or similar concerns.  In most cases, ceramic should suffice if you're running a bit hot against igneous rock.  However, I won't argue it's the most unmeltable rock for ladders available, besides Abyssalite.  Just wouldn't have enough use cases for me that I'd worry about using it in bulk for something.

The cost/egg for hatch is reasonably beneficial compared to their breeding time.  By the time you worry about junk stone you can start hauling the comet debris in.  It's mostly cost per dupe time in getting one into a ranch in the first place before you're in trouble with food.  So, I agree, Mushrooms are the best early game food to worry about.  I don't even bother with fertilizer stations.  Just plant more of them, slime is cheap.  It's 2 shrooms/dupe fertilized, 3 shrooms/dupe unfertilized.  Get more dusk caps by strip mining the swamp biome.

Now do this with 70 duplicants. I didn't kniw they eat regolith though.

[BlueLance]

12 minutes ago, Carnis said:

Now do this with 70 duplicants. I didn't kniw they eat regolith though.

Assuming you could keep up with the oxygen for 70 dupes, There is enough Igneous rock to feed hatches for thousands of cycles, and if you get a volcano even longer. Then there is all the other materials you could use as well.

I would personally love to go for 70 dupes! Currently I have only found one cool steam vent so at most I could support up to 32 dupes as it provides enough water for me to run my current electrolyzers constantly. 

[Carnis]

24 minutes ago, BlueLance said:

Assuming you could keep up with the oxygen for 70 dupes, There is enough Igneous rock to feed hatches for thousands of cycles, and if you get a volcano even longer. Then there is all the other materials you could use as well.

I would personally love to go for 70 dupes! Currently I have only found one cool steam vent so at most I could support up to 32 dupes as it provides enough water for me to run my current electrolyzers constantly. 

So, breathe oil.

[BlueLance]

Just now, Carnis said:

So, breathe oil.

Works like a charm, pity i cant really smell the roses now.

But I think if you lucky out on your two original cool steam vents you could probably support near enough 100 dupes, The food would be a squeeze though I think unless you get a decent water geyser or something

[Parusoid]

7 hours ago, TOOK14 said:

and I use a fully centralized power grid.

So you keep all your power sources connected in one place?