Help! (Teaching Others)

[Scarecrow0_0]

I have played this game for more than I would like to admit (over 500 hours) and almost immediately I got 2 close friends to play this game along with me. After around 200 hours of play I started to utilize the wiki, learning basic crockpot recipes (meatballs, pirogies, etc.) and learning about different mobs and set pieces. Then I started to go into a creative world and spawn in different mobs I needed to learn how to kite (Hounds, Deer clops, beefalo, pigs, clockworks) Well now a year later I think I finally have gotten decent at this game and I started to implement a ruins rush strategy with my friend. I play as Wx and rush ruins coming out around day 14 fully looted. All I need is for my friend (Wicker) to survive, make a camp with a few crockpots, a fireplace, few hanging racks, and an alchemy engine. The issue is that he keeps dying!

I don't want this to be about stories of dying or even complaints about this, I respect the progress my friend has made and he has stuck with me through 300 hours of gameplay. We've gotten quite good and he understands the mechanics so I'm wondering if their is anyway that I could help him to hold his own and get better. A few things that I've noticed he could improve at is kiting. Now it doesn't need to be everything, but because he plays Wicker I feel as though he should be able to try to kite nightmares, and maybe even hounds. I've put him in a creative world and had him kite and he does so flawlessly but whenever we're in game he freaks out. I.e. Day 100 and hounds come. At this point we have a huge tooth trap setup but he's away gathering stone from a far away stone yard gathering stone to put walls around a pig spider farm. Another thing to note is that he refuses to use arrow keys to run around and must use his mouse. So the hounds come and somehow he accidentally picks up a spear and then attacks a tier 3 spider den which turns into spider queen. So he freaks and takes off his winter hat and starts to freeze. At this point theirs no saving anyone I don't care how experienced you are. Just wondering if anyone had any tips to help my friend get better.

Also on a side note another friend I have played around 200 hours with me and started to turn away from the game, complaining of the challenge and not being able to do much. As much as I try to help him he always winds up dying when we play together. Also wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to get an old friend back to this game after hours of play and how to support him if we can get him to play again.

[kertinker]

The greatest challenge of this game is to not be afraid of it. A lot of this stuff deliberately pushes your buttons, and leaves you panicking, and making the wrong decision. Most people wouldn't be relieved to have dozens of beefalo chasing them, for instance. And you wouldn't think to run up to the spider queen and just tank her, but with a log suit and helmet, that's one of the most reliable ways to defeat her. But just in general, scaring you with the sounds of baying hounds, the distortions of the insanity, werepigs, the challenge is not being afraid.

So, I think it's entirely psychological, if he can kite perfectly well in creative mode. My advice for him would be to die a lot. Like, a lot. Like comically much. Whatever it takes to get used to all this stressful scariness. Be Wes and punch the Deerclops. I dunno. Once dying is nothing new, he shouldn't freak out as much when he's gonna die, and then he's ironically more likely to live.

That and a little humility might help. He refuses to use the arrow keys? Man, you gotta use those no matter how bad you are at it. There's no way to fight effectively, moving with the mouse. Things aren't going as planned? Great! That's when the "fun" begins! He's gotta accept it when the mission is FUBAR, and if he insists on doing anything but meekly running like a little baby all the way across the world for the fire and tooth traps, he's gonna die with an ego like that. Weak little crybabies survive, while responsible, mature adults perish trying to salvage an unsalvagable situation.

So yeah, give spider queens some nice friendly cuddles, and stop trying to fight the hounds a day's walk from base, in the dead of winter, with the mouse. Otherwise, might be best to quit while you haven't spent a hundred more hours trying to force the game to be what you want it to be.

[1bubbainpa]

I think a major enticement for this game is overcoming things and obstacles as you progress further and further in each playthrough.

Tallbirds are a great example of this. Most newbies will see the big ol’ tall bird egg as the million dollar lottery ticket, and will try to go for it. Most of the times though, they are either severely wounded or killed by the angry mother. After repetitions of failed attempts to safely retrieve the egg, most players will then completely avoid tallbirds; until one day they come trotting back with a log suit and a spear. Watching the tallbird’s death animation is a huge satisfaction for many players.

Another example is the sanity system. Most new players see the “brain meter” and wonder what it means for a few days. As their sanity gets lower and lower, the new players are terrified of all the nightmarish creatures, until it climaxes unto the point for the amalgamations attack them. Once they learn how to cope with sanity however, they no longer fear the brain-o-meter.

Here’s my point: Pretty much hand-holding your friends throughout the entire game won’t grant that satisfaction of overcoming hurdles in Don’t Starve, which will lead to them making the same mistakes over and over until they quit due to either frustration or boredom.

Dont Starve is designed to be played with little hand-holding throughout the game. I’d recommend letting your friends discover, initiate, and adapt to the various hurdles this game provides. Because of this though, I would say that Don’t Starve is not a game that everyone would enjoy. Don’t try to force your friends back into the game if they already quit, the chances are; forcing them to play it would make them outright hate the game.

 

EDIT: No offense to you or your friend, but he can’t survive on his own time for 14 days despite having 300 hours of total playtime? 

[Rellimarual]

7 hours ago, kertinker said:

He refuses to use the arrow keys? Man, you gotta use those no matter how bad you are at it. There's no way to fight effectively, moving with the mouse.

This isn’t entirely true. I have never gotten used to WASD and I can solo most of the non-raid bosses, including Klaus. I’m the first to admit that I’m not great at kiting because of my lack of coordination in this department, but it’s not a total dealbreaker.

[Altari]

I played 1500 hours and based on my experience another teacher and many videos would be good

You taught him well maybe but your way must be not all. So learning another teacher's way will help him to choose which way would be better for him. If it is hard to get another teacher, videos could be teacher.

When my playtime was 600 hours, i thought i know everything but no it was not

After my friend show me some videos like speedrun or cheese, i realized i have really lot things to learn.

 If i say videos, some people think videos for tip like bosses or kiting.

Those are required but I recommend some play through videos because you can find how they manage their character and detail

These two are the most effective way to make own way I think.

[kertinker]

On 4/7/2018 at 12:46 PM, Rellimarual said:

This isn’t entirely true. I have never gotten used to WASD and I can solo most of the non-raid bosses, including Klaus. I’m the first to admit that I’m not great at kiting because of my lack of coordination in this department, but it’s not a total dealbreaker.

What, are you suggesting I might simply not be any good at this game? Why sir, I am offended! I may have to remove my silk glove!

But yeah I just think using the keyboard makes kiting way less error prone, since you can't accidentally click on a grass tuft while charging at the spider queen, then die while placidly cutting some grass for yourself. I suppose you could just swallow that risk, or be coordinated enough that you move your mouse with pixel precision. But rotating the camera and hitting left and right, just... works better overall, if you aren't already really good at using the mouse.

Though I think a joystick would be the absolute best way to kite, since you dodge back in just about any conceivable direction. Sometimes rotating the camera to your ideal position just isn't feasible, especially when fighting multiple foes.

On 4/7/2018 at 6:48 PM, Altari said:

You taught him well maybe but your way must be not all.

Good point... if he's only been playing with you, he might try playing with other people, and not that you're not great company, but it might make the game more enjoyable to get other people's experience.

On 4/7/2018 at 6:30 AM, 1bubbainpa said:

Most newbies will see the big ol’ tall bird egg as the million dollar lottery ticket, and will try to go for it. Most of the times though, they are either severely wounded or killed by the angry mother. After repetitions of failed attempts to safely retrieve the egg, most players will then completely avoid tallbirds; until one day they come trotting back with a log suit and a spear. Watching the tallbird’s death animation is a huge satisfaction for many players.

Eh... tallbirds aren't that hard to avoid. You don't even need a road long as you don't get hung up on anything. Most newbies I've seen

1. go over to look at the tallbird and get pecked
2. fail to steal the egg and get killed
3. steal the egg on the second try then go charging down the savanna howling back at the thing to give up her baby already
4. try to hatch the egg instead of using it as an invaluable source of never spoiling super egg food.

It's still supremely satisfying when you kill the tallbird, especially by kiting. You feel like you're untouchable, and holy crap it drops two good meats!

[Rellimarual]

7 hours ago, kertinker said:

It's still supremely satisfying when you kill the tallbird, especially by kiting. You feel like you're untouchable, and holy crap it drops two good meats!

Not quite supremely, because killing it after you’ve gotten it to kill a koalafant for you is better, and leaves with 10 good meats plus a trunk.

[kertinker]

On 4/9/2018 at 5:32 AM, Rellimarual said:

Not quite supremely, because killing it after you’ve gotten it to kill a koalafant for you is better, and leaves with 10 good meats plus a trunk.

Trouble with koalefants is you have to spend so much time hunting them, and you could get a Ewecus instead, or a Varg. What I really like about koalefants is how their meat and trunk never, ever spoils, as long as you chase them into a pen, and don't kill them until you need all that meat.

But Tallbirds respawn every 2.5 days, always from the same spot.  Plus they lay a super egg.

I agree it's even more satisfying to kill the tallbird after it was weakened from killing the koalefant. Meat for days!

[Scarecrow0_0]

Okay, recently we started another world and I’ve started to let him try to take the reins. Recently we just fought off hounds (although none of them wound up aggroing on him) but he was still super nervous about it (small steps right? xD) This playthrough I’ll try to suggest that he fight more and start to participate in raid bosses as well and if we wind up dying at least it’ll be a good learning experience; thanks for all the good help!

[Scarecrow0_0]

Update: Just finished killing deerclops (together) and then kitting hounds, ur guy’s advice seems to be working! Thanks

[Lakurius]

Yaey

[Bluckles]

Any experienced player knows that in DST dying is second nature. DST is a hundred times more forgiving that DS.

I had the same situation happen with my friend who was getting great at the game but still panicked when anything slightly bad happened. If you have a better understanding of the game's mechanics and experience with loss in the game it should be fine.

Basically just play.

[Casm]

If I'm reading this correctly and your friend has 300+ hours in the game, I'm not sure if there's any advice I could give that would help him that he wouldn't have already experienced over the course of playing for more than 300 hours. But, I'll do my best.

First off, I'd like to ask if your friend bothers to use the F key for auto-attacking at all, or does he use his mouse entirely for both movement and combat? If he hasn't tried using the F key to fight, I'd recommend that as a compromise to him trying to use WASD. IE: Mouse for movement/dodging, F for combat/auto-attacking.

Okay, onto my suggestions.

Running: My first suggestion is this. Running is a perfectly acceptable course of action. If he's out mining rocks and hounds attack, he shouldn't feel obligated to have to fight them. This is Don't Starve Together after all and if there's other players playing, it's fine to run and get help. As long as you're constantly moving, hounds will rarely land a hit. In fact, this is true for most creatures in the game. With armor, those hits are minor and with a Walking Cane, they'll land even fewer. If your friend is not comfortable taking on 4+ hounds by himself without risk of death, then it's okay to run until you or another player can meet up with them to help take them out. He can also run to the nearest herd of beefalo or even the hound teeth traps you have set up if necessary, even if they are really far away. Now obviously, it would be ideal that he learns to handle those attacks himself but he if ever starts to feel overwhelmed, (ie: starts to panic) his first instinct should be to start running away. Just bear in mind, hounds can lose interest in chasing and if they do, they hang around that area until someone wanders nearby at which point they'll start attacking again. So, keep that in mind.

This leads me to my next suggestion.

Gear: Aside from the obvious preparation (log suit, spear, thermal stone) allow me to suggest a few other things. You mention a Winter Hat. I would like to suggest the far superior Beefalo Hat. A Beefalo Hat has the highest warmth value of any hat and will make the wearer immune to being attacked by Beefalo in heat. Now, someone (preferably someone who's a skilled fighter) will have to lure a beefalo away from the herd and kill it because it requires a Beefalo horn to craft. Once you get the horn, simply shave a few at night with a razor and get your nice warm hat.

The next thing I'd like to suggest, if you haven't already been doing this, is to find and kill MacTusk the moment snow hits the ground during Winter and every 2 days after that. Get those Walking Canes and Tam O' Shanters.

The only other thing I can think of is your friend may want to invest in a Bat Bat. They're a bit expensive in the early game, costing a precious purple gem, but they can help keep your friend alive when taking more hits than usual, or when face-tanking becomes preferable to kiting. (Someone mentioned face-tanking the Spider Queen for example). Once your second summer hits, the hound attacks should supply enough red and blue gems to refine into purples and allow your friend to keep one on him pretty much at all times.

As for my last suggestion.

Mods: This will likely be the most controversial of my suggestions, but there are a variety of mods that can help make the game less frustrating for less experienced players. The More Equipment Slots mod gives backpacks and amulets their own unique equipment slots, allowing you to be able to wear armor and a backpack together. A mod like this allows players more freedom as they no longer have to choose between wearing armor or a backpack but can instead wear both together.

The Global Positions mod allows other players to appear on your map, so you can always find help when you need it the most.

The Combined Status mod gives you a variety of useful information, such as your character's temperature so you know when you're getting close to freezing or overheating.

These are just a few mods that I could recommend for you and your friends. And I believe each of them are customizable, so you can alter the degree as to how much they help you (for example, the Combined Status mod gives you lots of information like how many days are left in the current season, but you could alter it so that it doesn't display that information).

Now, I say this is controversial because many players feel that mods such as this trivializes the game or at the very least, removes some of the challenging aspects of the game that they find to be part of the fun and enjoyment. However, the exact opposite can also be true where these mods can alleviate some of the frustration many players experience and can make the game far more enjoyable to play. Everyone is different though, so do what is most fun for you and your friends. Do some experimenting and see if there's any mods you and your friends think are fun to play with!

Honorable mention suggestions: For mid to late game, once you kill the Bee Queen, I suggest cooking and keeping some Jellybeans on your character. You mentioned that your friend started to freeze after panicking and accidentally attacking a spider nest. If you start to freeze or overheat, eat a Jellybean as that will almost single-handedly offset the damage you take and give your character the time they need to get somewhere safe and get warm (or cool).

I hope this was somewhat helpful. Good luck!

[kertinker]

>mid to late game

>not killing the bee queen on day 1 with a grass suit and spear

[Maxposting]

Now u made the ultra gay wes propaganda 

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Yeah toucmedaddy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[minespatch]

16 hours ago, kertinker said:

not killing the bee queen on day 1 with a grass suit and spear

Is that your art?

[kertinker]

Just now, minespatch said:

Is that your art?

Heck no! Follow the link to the artist, right?

[minespatch]

Just now, kertinker said:

Heck no! Follow the link to the artist, right?

Whoops, just saw the link when I hovered.

[GuyNamedChris]

18 hours ago, __IvoCZE__ said:

Now u made the ultra gay wes propaganda 

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Yeah toucmedaddy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you're hilarious

As for OP, I can't say much else that hasn't been said already, glad to see it's helping you and your friend out.

[Scarecrow0_0]

Okay so another update. We recently had another play through and although I try to stress that dying is a natural thing, he still preceded to die and rage quit... At this point I’m just looking for any help, thank you for all the constructive replies!

[ShadowDuelist]

7 hours ago, Scarecrow0_0 said:

Okay so another update. We recently had another play through and although I try to stress that dying is a natural thing, he still preceded to die and rage quit... At this point I’m just looking for any help, thank you for all the constructive replies!

Yknow, this still happens to my gf whenever we play together and any advice would be greatly appreciated as well. She always dies in really early game mostly to being careless EG: she knows its better to go pick reeds with some piece of armor, yet she never uses it. Or retreat of whatever she was doing and play safe when at 40 hp or less (she never plays maxwell, so 40 means she got beaten a bunch already) yet she keeps going without healing until dead (and yes she knows a lot of ways to heal)

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After the third or 4th time she dies on a game, mentions in hindsight what she did wrong, and then usually ragequits comparing herself to me in frustration: -"you dont die as often as I do, and I know I delay the progress dying every 6 or 7 days" (Im 1600 hours in the game she's less than 100, its understandable why I die less and not something for her to feel bad about). Even if im telling "don't worry Ill revive you" in a positive manner on voice chat she still consistently ragequits between day 18 and day 26. I've also tried explaining ways to self revive in early game, like working towards having a couple of meat effigies or locating the touchstones so she doesn't need me to revive, but that didn't work either.

I think video games show, even if at a faint glance, personality traits of people like adaptability under bad circumstances or how to cope with frustration, which are hard things to work with in first place. It could also very well be that I'm a horrible teacher.

 

[Rellimarual]

13 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I think video games show, even if at a faint glance, personality traits of people like adaptability under bad circumstances or how to cope with frustration, which are hard things to work with in first place. It could also very well be that I'm a horrible teacher.

Does she play any other games? Maybe she’s just not used to the learning curve. It might also be that she mostly does things she’s already good at or prefers to learn new things that are similar to what she’s already good at and this has caused her patience and determination to get weak. A lot of smart people are like that, because they can pick up a lot of things quickly and aren’t used to starting out bad and getting slowly better.

[ShadowDuelist]

4 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

Does she play any other games? Maybe she’s just not used to the learning curve. It might also be that she mostly does things she’s already good at or prefers to learn new things that are similar to what she’s already good at and this has caused her patience and determination to get weak. A lot of smart people are like that, because they can pick up a lot of things quickly and aren’t used to starting out bad and getting slowly better.

She doesnt play other games, and what you say makes perfect sense to me, its actually a specific type of learning  doing something you are completely unfamiliar with and having to bear with the fact that you are probably going to be bad at it early on.

For example, I suggested that she uses awsd to move the character, but she refused to do so saying its too hard. I know many people chooses not to do it that way because they don't like it, but  "not liking it" implies that you tried it for a while and decided not to. She doesn't even try to actually know if she likes it or not, probably because of what's stated above.

Perhaps players like this need to "feel" the need to change habits on their own, like actually figuring a simple solution to a problem instead of because someone told them to do it in a specific way. The true question is how to accomplish that before the ragequit  Thanks to this issue we can only play the first autumn and half of the first winter together, and never get past that point because she doesn't want to go back to previously "ragequitted" worlds

[Rellimarual]

Really, she just needs to practice, assuming that she wants to put in the time. Not everybody does or should. She might be playing primarily as a way to spend time with you doing something you like, in which case, maybe she’s frustrated that she has to learn all this arcane, hard stuff to do it and that seems kind of pointless to her.  

On the other hand, maybe what’s hard for her is not being as good at it as you are and doing all the failing right in front of you. If she seems to genuinely like the game, it might be better for her to play in a solo world for a bit, Endless so she can revive at the portal as much as she wants, and so has permission to die as many times as she needs to without feeling like she’s “losing.” She might learn more easily if she feels like she can do whatever she wants.