Yet Another Self-Powered Self-Cooled O2 Module (updated)

[Saturnus]

12 minutes ago, Roboson said:

I must object to calling them cheats. 

/facepalm

Another apologist

8 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Note: if you want to discuss Borg Cube vs. Wheezewort use for any reason start your own thread.

What part of this is unclear?

[avc15]

I mean, it kind of goes with the territory. No amount of disclaimers or wards will keep the streams of discussion uncrossed in this instance.

[Cypher-7]

Is the gas bridge in the hydrogen loop working as a mechanical filter against accidentally picking up oxygen? Or is it just simply an overflow?

[Roboson]

58 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

/facepalm

Another apologist

What part of this is unclear?

The part where you intentionally use incorrect terminology? 

[Kabrute]

there is often a line, it is crossed by veering so far off topic as to be seen as instigating.

[avc15]

2 hours ago, Cypher-7 said:

Is the gas bridge in the hydrogen loop working as a mechanical filter against accidentally picking up oxygen? Or is it just simply an overflow?

gases will always flow to an in-line input first. So in his setup here, gases ALWAYS flow towards the generators until there's no more space. Gases only flow to the right when the line connecting the generators is completely full.

There's a second benefit. A branching vent without the bridge will still get you a full line to the generators. But your gas pump won't be able to work at full capacity, because every second packet still tries to go up but can't get anywhere. The gas flow out to the right is reduced in half, and your pump will back up.

The bridge fills the generators' line first, then allows everything else to move on by at full speed. It's a bit of an un-intuitive fix to an annoying problem.

[Keyimin]

2 hours ago, Roboson said:

The part where you intentionally use incorrect terminology? 

Time and place is a thing. 

[Roboson]

51 minutes ago, Keyimin said:

Time and place is a thing. 

Sorry sorry. Just trying to keep things accurate, not change the subject. 

[Saturnus]

4 hours ago, Cypher-7 said:

Is the gas bridge in the hydrogen loop working as a mechanical filter against accidentally picking up oxygen? Or is it just simply an overflow?

It's just an overflow. The double atmo sensors is preventing oxygen from falsely triggering the pump. It works flawlessly. 

[Argelle]

To me, selfpowered is a equilibrium between consumption and production.

But here, +1600 W - 2400 W the system needs 800W?
 

Spoiler

 

I was attracted by your post, because that is a problem I have with my 100 cycles colony: struggling to get a system generating enough power.... (no geyser, gas, water or petroleum discovered, so coal is the best I have left, and CO2 is overhelming).

 

 

[Oozinator]

Every topic is about "exploit here" "cheat there". Fun to watch those bareknuckles discussions.
I really hope, devs could terminate some bugs, to end the "war".
Make Klei great again!

[Saturnus]

26 minutes ago, Argelle said:

To me, selfpowered is a equilibrium between consumption and production.

But here, +1600 W - 2400 W the system needs 800W?

 

There's a lot of things there that aren't powered on constantly.

For starters, to prevent overloads the oxygen pumps shuts off when the aquatuner is running so the maximum load is 1920W keeping under the maximum load of conductive wires. Don't worry, the aquatuner is only running 3 seconds every 6-7 cycles so it won't affect oxygen supply much.

Second, the electrolyzers and hydrogen pump doesn't work all the time. Far from it. 

The whole system uses just shy of 800W average. That's why there's a tiny bit of hydrogen overflow.

The generators are only running when needed as they are automated by the smart battery.

 

[Arash70]

Looks good, now some idiot will come and say 2 electrolyzers need 4 pumps :))

I bet

[Saturnus]

6 minutes ago, Arash70 said:

Looks good, now some idiot will come and say 2 electrolyzers need 4 pumps :))

I bet

Well they do... if you want the electrolyzers to run all the time. But if you just need to fill a single oxygen outlet to maximum capacity and keep it self-powered, you definitely don't want 4 pumps.

Each electrolyzer here runs 63.4% of the time. The oxygen pumps runs 99.93% of the time. And the hydrogen pump runs 25.225% of the time.

[Arash70]

here's my setup at the moment:

It runs pretty well, I set the thermal sensor to <40c to avoid electro overheating, and I just don't filter the gases (I think I'll use hydrogen in my base to make a cooling room later)

Plus hydrogen helps with cooling the top of the base I think.

 

[Master Miner]

8 hours ago, Saturnus said:

No, they delete heat energy. That is the same as deleting mass.

Oh, that's not the case.
Wheezworts convert heat energy into mass.
Just the gained mass and their growth is so small that you couldn't notice it under 1.000.000 cycles.

[Saturnus]

There's a few changes after several separate long term runs. And I don't mind telling you that ultraspeed really sucks. In one speed run I had the top chamber go up to 74.2C even though the mathematical maximum possible temperature should be 72.4C. In another cases a dot of CO2 would randomly spawn in. And then there was the annoying randomly freezing hydrogen to 0K inside pipes causing CTD, I had that a few times.

Anyway, those shouldn't happen in a survival game just when you do speed runs.

Average O2 temperature is 23.6C And only varies +-2.4C.

So here's the updated build

• The O2 line from the left pump is now in granite pipes, meandered and merged with the right pump as suggested by @Nativel. This gives a more stable O2 output temperature.
• changed settings on O2 thermo sensors to "above 30C"
• Metal tiles extended up one tile to get more stable and lower O2 output temperatures when the system is fully up to maximum temperature.
• H2 pipes in the top exchanged to granite pipes to keep absolute maximum running temperature below 72C even when the game glitches
• Added a mechanical filter just for peace of mind. Didn't have a problem with O2 invading my H2 line at all though.
• All internal gas pipes are granite everywhere instead of abyssalite to distribute heat better.
• Added 4 igneous rock temp shift plates in the hydrogen generator room to distribute heat better. (This and the previous seems to prevent randomly freezing hydrogen in pipes to 0K).

After each speed run. I've made a few changes to the original. Speed run again. And so on.

Anyways, pics and save file (run 50 cycles along) occ O2 cube.sav

Oh, btw, the reason for the water at the top is thermal mass. Since this is intended to be built from non-exotic materials it would be hard, or more annoying to get above 2kg/tile hydrogen pressure as would normally be preferable because no plastic means no high pressure vents. The water just simply gives mass to compensate for the lower than ideal amount of hydrogen.

[avc15]

4 hours ago, Arash70 said:

Looks good, now some idiot will come and say 2 electrolyzers need 4 pumps :))

I bet

hm.... 2 pumps for O2 will only run those electrolyzers at around 56% of their maximum gas output.

3 pumps, 85%

4 pumps is overbuilding a bit, but it gets you really close to maximizing output... Though you still won't get quite 100% capacity because of pressure gradients and such. To get 100% you have to resort to exploits, I think.

All depends what your intent is.

[Lutzkhie]

what about mini gas pump?

[Saturnus]

57 minutes ago, avc15 said:

hm.... 2 pumps for O2 will only run those electrolyzers at around 56% of their maximum gas output.

3 pumps, 85%

4 pumps is overbuilding a bit, but it gets you really close to maximizing output... Though you still won't get quite 100% capacity because of pressure gradients and such. To get 100% you have to resort to exploits, I think.

All depends what your intent is.

In my opinion people ignore the obvious drawbacks if they use 3 or even 4 pumps running to full capacity because then you need to split the O2 output into two different pipes. This build uses 2 oxygen pumps filling one gas pipe completely to capacity, and the hydrogen pump only runs when required. That is, in my opinion at least, and much cleaner set up. The electrolyzers just run when needed and they have available gas pressure.

Remember, electrolyzers only use power and water when they actually run. When they are blocked by hitting max gas pressure they use no power or water.

55 minutes ago, Lutzkhie said:

what about mini gas pump?

A prerequisite in this build was no exotic materials and no limited resources could be used. Mini gas pumps require plastic so no go.

Besides there's 126g/s H2 generated by the electrolyzers so you'd need two mini gas pumps any way, saving you no space and consuming more power. 1 mini gas pumps use more power than one regular gas pump that only runs 20% of the time. The only advantage the mini gas pumps have is that they are smaller.

[Lutzkhie]

yeah i noticed, 1 gas pump leads to max gas pressure on electrolizers

[avc15]

yeah, you need 2 gas headers with 4 pumps. That becomes a huge burden if you won't use a borg cube. In the worst case, you don't have an entropy device in the midgame. Imagine how power hungry two strings of thermo regulators will be.

[Arash70]

The optimal setting for 4 gas pumps (as saturnus said) is 2 gas lines, so you'll need 4 gas pumps + 2 or 4 filters + 2 electrolyzers to get anywhere near 100% which costs you lots of power

 

and still that won't be a 100% because oxygen + oxygen would add up but oxygen + hydrogen on the other pump would cause a bottleneck therefore causing one pump to wait for the next clock.

 

[BT_20]

Quick question could I hook up an eletrolyzer exploit to this device or would that over saturate the cube.

[Saturnus]

18 minutes ago, BT_20 said:

Quick question could I hook up an eletrolyzer exploit to this device or would that over saturate the cube.

Can I ask what the point would be?

You can't get more oxygen out. It's already self-powered and self-cooled. It already functions flawlessly for unlimited amount of time as long as you keep feeding it water. It can't overheat or suffer any long term stability issues.