Yet Another Self-Powered Self-Cooled O2 Module (updated)

[Dunati]

Okay, so maybe the target of my post was off, but the point is still there: It seems strange to me to be okay with an exploit but not intended behavior. Oh well, still a cool design.

[thejams]

On 2/19/2018 at 9:45 PM, Saturnus said:

Btw, here's the same thing with wheezeworts instead just to show you guys.

Still no exotic materials used. Only iron ore temp shift plates etc.

Well. One of the requirement was it had to be self-powered.

This is not working for me, all 4 wheezes are "turned on" constantly, but the temperature is still slowly rising.  Wheezes are in 2kg+ hydrogen.  The only difference is that I used Igneous rock tempshift plates - stupid I know, but still shouldn't affect the system?

EDIT: I changed the tempshift plates for Wolframite, started the system after it was completely cooled down and the temperature is still rising.

[Saturnus]

1 hour ago, thejams said:

This is not working for me, all 4 wheezes are "turned on" constantly, but the temperature is still slowly rising.  Wheezes are in 2kg+ hydrogen.  The only difference is that I used Igneous rock tempshift plates - stupid I know, but still shouldn't affect the system?

EDIT: I changed the tempshift plates for Wolframite, started the system after it was completely cooled down and the temperature is still rising.

I think you need diamond temp shift plates with wheezeworts to extract as much cooling as possible. It should work but I'm obviously not going to test it that much.

[Lutzkhie]

4 hours ago, thejams said:

Igneous rock tempshift plates

try obisdian tempshift

[thejams]

9 hours ago, Saturnus said:

I think you need diamond temp shift plates with wheezeworts to extract as much cooling as possible. It should work but I'm obviously not going to test it that much.

If it is not extracting the cooling fast enough, the wheeze chamber temp should still keep falling.  To me it seems that it is extracting the heat, just not enough is getting destroyed, which is weird as 4 wheezes should be plenty of cooling in the hydrogen density I have there.  Maybe it needs more space... well I guess that should be a reason enough to learn how to do creative testing.

[Saturnus]

3 hours ago, thejams said:

...well I guess that should be a reason enough to learn how to do creative testing.

I do not care about wheezeworts and other exotic resources. This design is intended to run using my Borg Cube design as the cooling part. It works as intended without problems after running for over 600 cycles now. Temperatures plateaued and haven't changed one iota after the first 90 cycles.

 If you want a O2 generator design that uses wheezeworts and diamond temp shift plate spam there are other designs available for that.

[gently]

Hi I like your design, trying to get it going in a normal game. How should I proceed with the assembly? I know I need vacuum for the cube itself, but it seems from the pictures that  the top room is flooded with hydrogen as well, how did you achieve that? also how did you prime it the 1st time? did you pump hydrogen into the generators and then cut it off? thanks and cheers

[manu_x32]

After abusing the borg cube for a long period of time, I decided to try playing a game without it since I'm sure they're gonna fix that exploit in the near future.  So I tried a similar design with the thermo nullifier.  Works pretty well.

Just a debug test for now, but will try it in a real game soon. I did it all in a single room with easy access for dupes, to make it easier to build. And since controlling when the nullifier runs is not easy, I had to stuck some batteries and transformers in there to prevent from getting to cold. Gives me two transfos with batteries to run other stuff outside. Just a first draft, I'm sure this can be optimized.    (Yeah I know, it's big)

other pictures:

Spoiler

 

[Saturnus]

@manu_x32 It's not only big but actually not nearly big enough. That particular nullifier ruin doesn't appear on all maps. I find it on roughly 1 in 3 maps. So it'll have to be a lot bigger to be usable with more than one specific and uncommon ruin.

Then again, I have no idea why you have transformers, standard batteries, heavi-watt wires, a second smart battery, flaps on the side with the automation etc. That could all be trimmed away.

[manu_x32]

25 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

@manu_x32 It's not only big but actually not nearly big enough. That particular nullifier ruin doesn't appear on all maps. I find it on roughly 1 in 3 maps. So it'll have to be a lot bigger to be usable with more than one specific and uncommon ruin.

Then again, I have no idea why you have transformers, standard batteries, a second smart battery, flaps on the side with the automation etc. That could all be trimmed away.

Oh I thought there was always the 2 types of ruins. I found both ruins in my last game and also in my current one, so I thought it was default. The other ruin with stairs and second floor that can't be deleted will be a problem for sure. May still be possible. Big builds are not necessarily a  bad thing from what I've seen, it can actually help having more air volume in there for pumps to always work, and seems to sometimes help on cooling too, depending on the design...  

The reason I have many batteries and transfos in there is because in my last game I had a similar system using the borg cube (I posted it earlier in the thread), and it was my main source of power for the whole mid-game, for 6-8 dupes. And I like multi-purpose devices. If I have extra cooling available, I like using it to cool my battery bank, my transfos, etc...  For sure the system can't run a lot of outside demand on it's own, but if supplemented with let's say, a few coal gens, or a single nat gen from 2-3 fertilizers, it can run the whole base, and also acts as the core cooling system for everything. 

When I use the borg cube, it's so effective, that I try to use it for different purposes at the same time, so I just tried something similar here.  

Examples of multi-purpose borg cubes from my last survival game:

Spoiler

• top one: oxygen coolling + battery bank and transfos cooling room
• bottom right: steam cooling + water cooling for berries + nat gens cooling
• bottom left (crude oil): sleet wheat water cooling (water radiator going through crude oil borg cube) + plastic cooling room + nat gas geyser cooling.

I was lucky to have both geysers right under the base in that game.

 

 

 

[andrough]

I decided to use the AETN for my oxygen setup this time, too.  This one, built in survival, is still being perfected, but it works fairly well.  The debug version had no problem powering every component, but I had to snip the water pump off the circuit recently because the hydrogen production isn't all that stable. 

Spoiler

@saturnus may notice a familiar structure there.  This o2 setup also started as redesign of the one in this thread.

I used the heat conduction through solids so that I could leave the other sides of the AETN open for more cooling interfaces.

Spoiler

This was my original design and I was disappointed that it didn't cool sufficiently because it produced a fair amount of extra hydrogen.  Also, because I was really happy with the way the loop functioned. 

1. power 2.AETN 3. cooling loop 4. overflow.  Additionally, the loop could refeed the first 2, but the overflow still worked.  Unfortunately, this stabilized around 45C oxygen output.  The hydrogen in the loop was very cold, but didn't absorb nearly enough heat. I tried a variety of different materials and combinations of mass in the o2 box.

I would have preferred this one, probably only for the reason that I liked watching the gases travel.

edit: forgot to ask.  Referring to this design, why is the cold hydrogen radiator not very effective?  I notice that most designs have the gas run through the radiator and the radiator immersed in cold hydrogen.  Is that the proper way to use the cold hydrogen to cool gases?

 

[PhailRaptor]

6 hours ago, andrough said:

edit: forgot to ask.  Referring to this design, why is the cold hydrogen radiator not very effective?  I notice that most designs have the gas run through the radiator and the radiator immersed in cold hydrogen.  Is that the proper way to use the cold hydrogen to cool gases?

The problem with Radiator designs is the mass disparity.  Having the Hydrogen moving through the radiator is a significantly smaller mass than that of the warm chamber.  Immersing the radiator in the cooling agent is far more effective, because you can have a significantly higher mass in a room than you can in a pipe.  So if you fill a room to bursting with, say, 10 kg of Hydrogen per tile, and you have your gas pipes filled to their max of 1 kg of gas to be cooled, you're going to have a dramatically stronger effect than trying to use that 1 kg of Hydrogen in the pipes trying to cool a room with a pressure anywhere from 1.5 to 3 kg of warm/hot gas.

[andrough]

29 minutes ago, PhailRaptor said:

helpful stuff

Thanks!  That was what I reckoned but I felt like I could be missing something.

[ScottFree]

On 2/20/2018 at 6:00 AM, Saturnus said:

Added a mechanical filter just for peace of mind. Didn't have a problem with O2 invading my H2 line at all though.

what value did you set the gas filter in your mechanical filter?

[Saturnus]

5 minutes ago, ScottFree said:

what value did you set the gas filter in your mechanical filter?

0.1g

[ScottFree]

3 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

0.1g

thanks, your build has been very helpful. hard to implement tho!

[Kabrute]

1.5g because the smaller size can fail since the update

[manu_x32]

On 2/25/2018 at 3:24 PM, thejams said:

This is not working for me, all 4 wheezes are "turned on" constantly, but the temperature is still slowly rising.  Wheezes are in 2kg+ hydrogen.  The only difference is that I used Igneous rock tempshift plates - stupid I know, but still shouldn't affect the system?

EDIT: I changed the tempshift plates for Wolframite, started the system after it was completely cooled down and the temperature is still rising.

I haven't tried 4 wheezes side by side, but stacking them 2 by 2 in an adapted version seems to work. Temp does not seem to rise. I used Iron ore for tempshift plates, but I think any other cheap material would do. In the side by side version, there does not seem to have enough metal contact with the outside, haft the wheezes are covered by abyssalite.

[Fury1SOG]

Is anyone else having problems in the Ranching Update to get the O2 Module self-powering? For some reason, hydrogen doesn't accumulate in the middle section. It isn't going through walls, but even though the Electrolyzers are running full-time, the hydrogen pressure near the middle Gas Pump does not rise and just fluctuates around 100g.

[Saturnus]

9 hours ago, Fury1SOG said:

Is anyone else having problems in the Ranching Update to get the O2 Module self-powering? For some reason, hydrogen doesn't accumulate in the middle section. It isn't going through walls, but even though the Electrolyzers are running full-time, the hydrogen pressure near the middle Gas Pump does not rise and just fluctuates around 100g.

Gases don't flow as before it seems. They are a lot more viscous.

On top of that the way electrolyzers work seems to have changed dramatically. I'm guessing in an attempt to get rid of the exploit where people made them work in two liquids to force maximum output. The now don't seem to care what there is in the output tile. They simply delete it and replace the gas. With the right pressure sensor settings I can get the electrolyzers to work 80-90% continuously without any gas ever being pumped out. They simply delete it all.

With the screwed up way the electrolyzer and gases work at the moment I think that I can make a build in debug that runs an electrolyzer at 100%. Never getting max pressure without actually ever outputting any gas at all.

Mind you. Bug report it. The more that does it the better.

[Fury1SOG]

1 hour ago, Saturnus said:

Gases don't flow as before it seems. They are a lot more viscous.

On top of that the way electrolyzers work seems to have changed dramatically. I'm guessing in an attempt to get rid of the exploit where people made them work in two liquids to force maximum output. The now don't seem to care what there is in the output tile. They simply delete it and replace the gas. With the right pressure sensor settings I can get the electrolyzers to work 80-90% continuously without any gas ever being pumped out. They simply delete it all.

With the screwed up way the electrolyzer and gases work at the moment I think that I can make a build in debug that runs an electrolyzer at 100%. Never getting max pressure without actually ever outputting any gas at all.

Mind you. Bug report it. The more that does it the better.

Thanks for your reply.

I seem to have gotten it to work by deleting a block next to the Gas Pump:

I'm not sure, but there seems to be something weird with the way that Gas Pumps handle vacuum.

[Saturnus]

@Fury1SOG I also got it to work deleting the two tiles next to the hydrogen pump and adjusting pressure down to 400g for the oxygen sensors and 200g for the hydrogen sensors. 

[Oozinator]

 

3 hours ago, Saturnus said:

 They simply delete it all.

 

lol rebirth of void for liquids..

[Sueca]

Ok so I have built this awesome cube. It works except for the water pump and cooler. 

I followed Saturnus' instructions, down to every material. I see now that I have forgotten the tempshift plates. Will they make a big difference? 

I'm pumping water in from a steam geyser. Initially when I had only built the inner cube and filled it up I was able to cool the water, so I am guessing that it has to do with the automation gates.

Please help me correct the problem!

PS. Can I use the cooled water like can I pump it out and use for my bristle farm or will that destroy the whole system? 

 

[Oozinator]

16 minutes ago, Sueca said:

I followed Saturnus' instructions, down to every material. I see now that I have forgotten the tempshift plates. Will they make a big difference?

Yes. Use debug to add them, or you have to break system, when you add them..
Water has a low freezing point, but when you use Oil for example, you could get lower.
Stay 20-25° above freezing temp (aquatuner) and nothing will break. That tolerance you have to keep in mind, when choosing liquid for cooling