goboking Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Through careful use of the job system, priorities, and door access I've been able to turn my colonies into finely-tuned, well-oiled machines. For example, my colony's physician is set to perform the Aid, Disinfect, and Deliver jobs. Because of it's placement in the job menu and the high priority I've given my med cots she'll always treat the sick and the injured as a matter of priority. When no one is charged to her care she'll disinfect the rare germ that occasionally makes its way into the base. If neither of these things happen (they rarely do) then she'll retrieve balm lilies from the wild and make vitamin chews for her fellow colonists. Because she's not given permission to enter the industrial wing of my base she doesn't deliver ore to the metal refinery. Because she's not given permission to enter my hydroponic bays she doesn't deliver fertilizer to my crops. Because my engineer and farmer aren't given permission to enter my medical lab they don't deliver balm lilies to or operate the apothecary. In this manner I've been able to give each dupe a specific role and ensure that they and only they are able to perform it. I haven't yet installed the Occupational Upgrade, but early feedback seems to indicate that I'll be losing some of this control in the new system. Particularly disconcerting is the idea that this new system forces the dupes into narrowly defined, predetermined roles. I'd personally rather have the freedom to define the roles my dupes will perform myself. As you guys get more time in with this new system I'd love to know if you it grows on you or if you prefer the old system. Cheers. PS - I just started up the stream and already noticed that the Medicine, Immunity, and Strength skills are gone. Immunity I can see going away since it probably works best standardized for all dupes and allowing up to boost it over time would render germs moot. Medicine is a glaring omission, but I'm guessing that's been replaced by Kindness? I guess we'll cure Slime Lung with hugs now? The absence of Strength is a bummer, though. Has this been rolled into Athletics? Or will all dupes be limited to carrying the same amount of material now and forever? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabrute Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 no no, you keep all your controls they are just hidden behind an extra button, as for strength there is still the buff trait but otherwise, same carry. Athletics for the win Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-995936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risu Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 The old job system is still there, they just moved the occupations and expectations to a bonus and unlock system. You are in charge of who becomes the bigwigs in the colony now. No longer is everyone a professional athlete. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-995955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plum Gate Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 It would be nice to have the general job roles explained a little better with a toot tip - took me a minute to figure out how to keep certain dupes off the manual generator. But I don't want them not operating ALL machines, guess that's what door permissions are for, bit hectic at the start - but I guess any of them can do anything at first ( unless idiocy ensues ). Can't dig, but interested in digging...hmm, some sort of voyeur. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-995973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 hour ago, The Plum Gate said: Can't dig, but interested in digging...hmm, some sort of voyeur. Had that with a cook and a scientist too ^^ Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-995983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plum Gate Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 42 minutes ago, Oozinator said: Had that with a cook and a scientist too ^^ It's come up several times for me with different traits - seems that random traits are random indeed. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-995987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
goboking Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Risu said: The old job system is still there To a degree. The devs said during the live stream that they reduced priorities from 9 to 5 because the majority of players were only using the 5, 7, and 9 settings. As someone who planned a meticulous system that utilized all 9 settings to maximize efficiency and ensure smooth running of my colony I'm having half the tools I've come to rely upon stripped away from me because the majority of players either couldn't figure out how or bother to properly use the full spectrum of priorities. So I'm being punished for clever play. And in place of these tools that have been taken from me I've been given a specialization system that either pigeonholes me into playing a specific way or forces me to micromanage my dupes to an annoying degree. I already specialize my dupes. This, along careful use of the priority system and door permissions, resulted in a highly efficient colony. There was no wasted energy in their daily routine and everyone did precisely what I wanted them to do precisely when I wanted them to do it. Now the specialization system takes control out of my hands. I'll give you an example of how. Under the old system my cook and my farmer were one in the same. There was no need to cook full time. There was no need to farm full time. Through considerate use of the systems of control given to us my cook would cook in the morning, farm in the afternoon, and harvest wild-growing pincha peppers during downtime. Under this new system a cook can't use the Farming Station and a farmer can't use the Electric Grill. This means I now need two people to do a job I used to handle quite efficiently with one or I have to constantly switch one dupe back and forth between the two specializations. That's a grating degree of micromanagement and it flies directly in the face of the stated purpose of this new specialization system: to make dupes more efficient. Again I'm being punished for clever play. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-995992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cptCalavera Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 They did say in the stream that there will be more proffesions that require two or more previous professions to be learned. So let's hope for a cookfarmer Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, cptCalavera said: They did say in the stream that there will be more proffesions that require two or more previous professions to be learned. So let's hope for a cookfarmer The old D&D meta. Let's add an arbitrarily high number of standardized archetypal roles instead of letting the roles be determined on skill and merit. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queron81 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 hours ago, goboking said: Under the old system my cook and my farmer were one in the same. There was no need to cook full time. There was no need to farm full time. Through considerate use of the systems of control given to us my cook would cook in the morning, farm in the afternoon, and harvest wild-growing pincha peppers during downtime. Under this new system a cook can't use the Farming Station and a farmer can't use the Electric Grill. It's now like in real life - or have you ever seen a cook with another daily job as a farmer? But they can still do other tasks, not every task needs a job assignment. Maybe the developers could add a scheduler for the dupes, so you can say: half the day you are a cook, the other half you are a farmer. But we don't know yet, what they will add to the game in the future. Maybe the dupes will get or need leisure, to interact with each other, raise a family, relieving stress etc. Just imagine you would have to work 85% a day, 365 days a year Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, Queron81 said: ... or have you ever seen a cook with another daily job as a farmer? Yes. And vice versa. It's not uncommon either. There's even a restaurant in this town that has won the highest awards there is and multiple Michelin stars that actually requires the cooks to grow their own vegetables and herbs in the restaurant garden. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOlz Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Combining a couple of the comments/idea's, maybe in a D&D type way dupes could have a leveling system that allows them to multi-class at a certain point. So you can't have a farmer/cook on day 1, but maybe later in the game you could. Would have to be managed right though, otherwise you just end up with everyone doing everything again. So maybe you can't master both jobs, just 1 and 3/4 of the 2nd, or something. Like a fighter/thief will never be as good a fighter as a straight up fighter. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queron81 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Yes. And vice versa. It's not uncommon either. Second jobs are much more non-specialized, something nearly everybody can do. In Oni: sweep and deliver, mop, running in manual generator etc. Cook and farmer at the same time is very uncommon, i don't know, if this even exists on our planet. Or how about scientist and farmer? *lol* Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, Queron81 said: Cook and farmer at the same time is very uncommon, i don't know, if this even exists on our planet. See my edit above. Cooks that farm, or the reverse is practically an everyday thing. 8 minutes ago, Queron81 said: Or how about scientist and farmer? *lol* Agricultural scientist? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plum Gate Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 I can see standby job assignments, but implementing would be odd. Lots of hat dances would be going on. You can train them up, seems like they should just be able to do it once they're trained. Call it graduating. ..maybe the "tenured" status would enable working without the funny cap .... maybe get a visual note about them or a badge or a start next to their health bar. As usual, the regular job options boxes could apply to tenured dupes. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanoD Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Well every change that is big will hurt. You have to change the way you think, the way you play. I dont see any problem with the new update expect that my dupes will be slow Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOlz Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said: Call it graduating. ..maybe the "tenured" status would enable working without the funny cap On the surface this makes sense, but I see it devolving back into everyone can do everything. There's something to the idea though - it's just finding the balance that works. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 On Discord we've been discussing a career path alternative. You select career paths that fits the dupes skills and interests. The dupes will gravitate towards jobs that further that career path and gain experience. Once they have the necessary experience they automatically level up in that career path. No more hats required and locking down dupes in strait-jacket roles. Please. If you want to you can, just as with the old system but it should be an option, not a requirement. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 41 minutes ago, The Plum Gate said: I can see standby job assignments, but implementing would be odd. Lots of hat dances would be going on. You can train them up, seems like they should just be able to do it once they're trained. Call it graduating. ..maybe the "tenured" status would enable working without the funny cap .... maybe get a visual note about them or a badge or a start next to their health bar. As usual, the regular job options boxes could apply to tenured dupes. Maybe have them display their tenured job by wearing their job's uniform. Like for example: Doctor/Nurse: Scrubs Scientist: Lab Coat Chef: Chef Uniform (Y'know the one) And everybody else would just have different colored jumpsuits. :3 (Maybe with identifying accessories like a wrench or whatever hanging off their belts) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plum Gate Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 29 minutes ago, NanoD said: Well every change that is big will hurt. You have to change the way you think, the way you play. I dont see any problem with the new update expect that my dupes will be slow I've had some early game slow downs myself, but it hasn't been because of job assignments ( although slightly )... I can say that the perks are generally nice considering I land myself a level 15 digger by the 14th cycle. 29 minutes ago, TheOlz said: On the surface this makes sense, but I see it devolving back into everyone can do everything. There's something to the idea though - it's just finding the balance that works. Really it only devolves such that the highly trained duplicants can then operate the machines which would otherwise require wearing a hat to work at. In this regard, the tenured status would be like a passive trait, and weather they work the job or not would be up to the player allow them to continue to do so via the jobs matrix pull up or, more simply, door permissions, rather than specific role assignment. I feel the best way to use the 'straight-jacket' is for training them into the career paths. The only purpose it serves currently is to steer the duplicant's priorities. What's new to us, is that there are machines which now require role assignment - it doesn't matter how we think of them: this dupe is my chef, but he also keeps the kitchen clean and delivers. etc, I'll be loosing my magic number for sure, I'll need at least 12 dupes, which is more than I'm used to playing with. 1 minute ago, watermelen671 said: Maybe have them display their tenured job by wearing their job's uniform. Like for example: Doctor/Nurse: Scrubs Scientist: Lab Coat Chef: Chef Uniform (Y'know the one) And everybody else would just have different colored jumpsuits. :3 (Maybe with identifying accessories like a wrench or whatever hanging off their belts) that seems workable, makes me wonder if the hats are just part of the passing of a design idea. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oozinator Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, The Plum Gate said: I'll be loosing my magic number for sure, I'll need at least 12 dupes, which is more than I'm used to playing with. Why? Jobtiers are down compatible? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Plum Gate Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Oozinator said: Why? Jobtiers are down compatible? I know they keep their experience, which is kind of awesome considering the gofer and courier jobs add a substantial amount to the carry capacity. Nothing quite like seeing Mi-ma haul 20 times her weight in minerals. I've hardly gotten around to using the plastic that came out two upgrades ago because I just can't seem to progress quickly. Of course I was always maintaining a very clean and functional primary base.. now that I have gotten used to the exosuits, it's fairly straight forward grinding the basics and then hunting down the right geysers. Really, the lack of a need for better food had kind of stagnated exploration and building for the cause. Having said that, sweeping is such a pain in the rear that I'm really going to be looking into the automation arms and conveyor systems. It's like my dupes refuse to sweep using any rational thought what so ever. If anything, this is one thing I'm having trouble controlling right now. So really, i have to get ahead on food and take in a few grounds keepers or something. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
blash365 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 i like the new system but with 34 dupes (all starting on tier1), it leaves many of them unemployed. I am hoping that this will unemployment will go down once i unlock the higher tiers and new jobs are added in later updates. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
watermelen671 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Glad to see the rate of unemployment is also consistent with real life. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturnus Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, watermelen671 said: Glad to see the rate of unemployment is also consistent with real life. Yes. I also have to wear two or three hats in real life Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/86783-do-you-prefer-the-new-job-system-or-the-old/#findComment-996124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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