Petition to bring back the Old Bell

[Spaartan]

Right now, I have changed my mind, it should be added, but there should be a lot of changes to make it harder to get, yet accessible to multiple players. A safeguard from griefers should be enough to make me happy

[minespatch]

5 minutes ago, Spaartan said:

Right now, I have changed my mind, it should be added, but there should be a lot of changes to make it harder to get, yet accessible to multiple players. A safeguard from griefers should be enough to make me happy

I don't care for the griefing aspect, I'd like to dissect the bigfoot and find out how it would work. The idea of doing rockclimbing might be a fun aspect for players who want to go above the clouds(and I don't mean that defunct mod).

[Donke60]

3 hours ago, minespatch said:

I don't care for the griefing aspect, I'd like to dissect the bigfoot and find out how it would work. The idea of doing rockclimbing might be a fun aspect for players who want to go above the clouds(and I don't mean that defunct mod)

You know the Devs did that on the play of words on BigFoot just being a giant sentient foot right. and not his more ape like incarnations. Before he was given a brain as part of his model he would just abruptly end in the clouds.

[Spaartan]

Just now, minespatch said:

I don't care for the griefing aspect, I'd like to dissect the bigfoot and find out how it would work. The idea of doing rockclimbing might be a fun aspect for players who want to go above the clouds(and I don't mean that defunct mod).

True, I would like to have a larger view of the map without clouds blocking my vision. Like sit on the brain and stuff. #FootTaming

[Spaartan]

5 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

You know the Devs did that on the play of words on BigFoot just being a giant sentient foot right. and not his more ape like incarnations. Before he was given a brain as part of his model he would just abruptly end in the clouds.

Oh the possibilities if he was. A new boss with loot. But that would be a dream meant to be crushed. Whats the point anyways, we have a bulk of good stuff with us already, I wont be greedy . (Mostly did this post to share my meme)

[TheKingofSquirrels]

54 minutes ago, Spaartan said:

True, I would like to have a larger view of the map without clouds blocking my vision. Like sit on the brain and stuff. #FootTaming

I always thought it be cool to be able to build watchtowers for that.

[Frosty_Mentos]

I'd say the Old Bell purpose should be calling out an early meteor showers in the meteor biomes, to possibly to get more moon rocks. It could be great for chopping trees in there and summoning more tree guards, but other downsides are that grass geckos are getting damaged in those biomes by meteors (if its a gecko world).

[csc_unit]

Soo beside griefing. What are the other uses of the Big foot?

- Farming trees ---> Very cheesy, it puts the game off balance.  Methods like luring the Bearger and baiting his attacks require certain skills and time. The method of the reanimated skeleton is safer, but way harder to acquire if you use it with the shadow thurible.

- Nuking bosses thus removing 1000 HP to any big mobs with one use. Kind off cheesy, it puts the game off balance a bit. I mean cmon, you come prepared for a boss fight with 3 dark swords, not 3 old bells. (I puked a bit in my mouth writing that)

Idk, I completely understand why the devs do not include the big foot in Dst. It only brings cheesiness and chaos. Good games are well balanced and well thought. It cannot be added just because its cool and why the heck not, mehh. It doesnt fit the lore either.

Old Bell should be repurposed tho. The meteor shower calling is a great idea.

[amethystMushroom]

A year ago, I created a mod to re-implement a nerfed version of Bigfoot, called Smallfoot. It's based on a joke I had with some friends. You can tune the damage, size, and destructive groundpound. It defaults to being about the size of a player, 50 damage, and no destruction.

The mod could be better but it works. You can imagine that Charlie shrank Bigfoot.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

31 minutes ago, csc_unit said:

- Farming trees ---> Very cheesy, it puts the game of balance.  Methods like luring the Bearger and baiting his attacks require certain skills and time. 

Oldbell requires more effort than just luring a Bearger around. Especially if you are playing on a server with a lot of people, it's not that easy to find Glommer when he's already been taken.

 

33 minutes ago, csc_unit said:

- Nuking bosses thus removing 1000 HP to any big mobs with one use. Kind off cheesy, it puts the game of balance a bit. I mean cmon, you come prepared for a boss fight with 3 dark swords, not 3 old bells. (I puked a bit in my mouth writing that)

I think this would balance the game out for people who play singleplayer. And again, it's a lot of effort to get 3 bells at the same time. 

[csc_unit]

4 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

more effort than just luring a Bearger around

You don't just lure the Bearger around. If you do that, the trees get pulverised. You need to bait the attacks which is as tricky as to fight him and even more because you need to pay attention to each of his steps.

 

4 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

it's a lot of effort to get 3 bells at the same time. 

Only time, no effort, 3 full moons that is it. 

Edit: However, I see no problem with bringing back the old bell if a new  Dst single player mode  (pause menu; reduced HP bosses) were to happen.

[CaptainChaotica]

What I want to know most here is WHAT THE HELL IS _UP_ WITH ALL THESE SUPER-DETERMINED, LONG-TERM GRIEFERS?!  Good god!  Dumb kid who acts kinda shifty and is a total stranger wandering up to your camp with a torch, dee dee dee, is bad enough, but this _slimy_, hateful, playing with people for a long time to get their trust, seeming like a decent person, and THEN killing them for absolutely no reason?  DUDE!  WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR MALFUNCTION?!!  I have never gotten this.  If you want entertainment, there is literally far more already made than you could possibly consume in your entire lifetime, and more being made every day.  You _don't have to be a jerk to other people to get your jollies_.  There are so, so, so, so, SO many other ways. 

Of course, the problem is that to that kind of person, the human factor of the anger, the hurt, the betrayal, the tears, IS _the_ most entertaining thing in the world.  They bug others BECAUSE bugging others is the most satisfying to them.

I will never get that.  Never ever.  I understand revenge, but why not only mess with people who have DONE NOTHING TO YOU, but take a really long time and a lot of your own personal _effort_ to do so?!  For pete's sake, if you're gonna do that, at least go for QUICK gratification!

There is no defending the long-term false-friend griefer. There just isn't.  It's reprehensible to the core.  If you do that and are proud of it, you are a waste of air.  Steam needs to have a way to pre-emptively ban people from _playing_ with you, not just from talking to you.  Because that obviously doesn't cut it.

If the Old Bell comes back, make it a world-gen choice if anything.  Or make some _other_ use for Glommer's wings. That is all.

...Notorious

[Sinister_Fang]

10 hours ago, Toros said:

it's just an OP boss killing item

Old bell: 3 uses, 1000 damage each. Total of 3000 damage. Can only gather materials every full moon.

Gunpowder: 40 uses, 200 damage each. Total of 8000 damage. Can gather materials any time you'd like.

Yeah, old bell is op and gunpowder isn't.

10 hours ago, Toros said:

that can also 1 click demolish bases.

*insert comment about how easier it is to use torches and hammers compared to getting the blueprint and materials, as well as mentioning the rollback feature*

[TheKingofSquirrels]

19 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

*insert comment about how easier it is to use torches and hammers compared to getting the blueprint and materials, as well as mentioning the rollback feature*

And that's invalid, why exactly?

[MondayNight]

19 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

Yeah...Speak for yourself.

I sometimes log in as Wickerbottom, so I can spawn Tentacles on people's bases.

And I go for the real long game too. I find a group in the early days and help them from the very beginning to build the most badass base they could ever imagine. I use Applied Horticulture on their farms and really prove myself to the team. I make pals with everyone and I'm just the nicest guy. 

And then the moment I get bored, boom! Tentacles everywhere!

Actually, wait I have pictures!

Spoiler

 

 

Jolly-good, ol' chap, big congrats on your friendly accomplishment! That is surely the way DST is meant to be played in Co-Ops. And you know... a nice, patient psychiatrist can bring you heaps and bounds of wonderful help. All that "bright road towards being a healthy and productive member of the society".

On the other hand S.atan Senpai, Bunnyash and Incey-Wincey-Spider up-voted that post; they can't wait for Old Bell implementation, with a magical buff of no more, no less than 3000 dmg per stomp. OLE: GO BIG or GO HOME!

[Sinister_Fang]

24 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

And that's invalid, why exactly?

There's already enough posts here explaining how easy is is to grief with a hammer or torch compared to the old bell. I was just saying it yet again, but more jokingly because it's been said enough already.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

1 minute ago, Sinister_Fang said:

There's already enough posts here explaining how easy is is to grief with a hammer or torch compared to the old bell. I was just saying it yet again, but more jokingly because it's been said enough already.

I think they keep saying it, because it's a valid argument, that your side can't counter argue. 

[Yuuko]

My opinion has nothing to do with griefers, and everything to do with  game design.

The boss hit points were raised in DST because it is a multiplayer game - this is not a valid argument to give players a free orbital laser cannon.  The hit points were purposefully raised in relation to the power given to the players.

Sure you can build gun powder, just invest the time to acquire rotten eggs, nitre, and charcoal, and then freeze / sleep the enemy so you can ignite the powder with enough time for it to go off...  Compared to old bell which is free every full moon, and can take less than the night the old moon occurred to fully craft, and practically times its self in use...  Too simple, too stupid powerful.

What I am really puzzled by is the pure zeal of people who want this dumb item back.  It isn't a great item, and except for its insane OP power there isn't any reason to be particularly invested in the item.  It doesn't take you on a journey to acquire, it doesn't bring anything interesting to the game by having it...  and all these whiny people who use bad arguments to justify bringing it back aren't selling me on it either...

Seriously - if your only argument (and so far this is your only argument) is that people can grief in other ways too...  then you're not justifying your case.  Sure, people can grief in many ways, that doesn't mean we can ignore the potential griefing ability of a game addition, but more than that are the actual things in the game that are meaningful compared to this simple item.

It's too easy to acquire, does too much damage, and brings nothing meaningful to the game.  There is no question of priorities as there are with nitre / eggs / charcoal in how you use the Glommer drops, and Glommer isn't so great that you wouldn't kill it every chance you get to either...  In fact - you already want to kill it every chance you get to because that is an easy way to farm Krampus.  All in all, it is too much power for such a simple play pattern...  I see absolutely no reason you should get any more reward for something that is already stupid easy to do, has no challenge / consequence, and doesn't compete for time / resources.

That is the only argument you can make that would matter.  Why should the Old Bell be added when...
1) Glommer is already overloaded.  Respawns for free every full moon, just walk up and pick the flower.  He is free, gives sanity aura, and easily spawns Krampus on command.  Why should Glommer do even more for free?
2) Old Bell is a very simple orbital laser cannon design.  You just ring the bell, and deal damage.  There is little set up, and no interaction.  You don't go on a journey to acquire it, and using it does not bring any interesting play experiences to the game.

Forget about griefers - the only argument is whether the Old Bell is actually a valuable addition to the game, or whether you are just jonesing for the OP DS item.  If you are just jonesing for the old, over powered DS item, then join the modders who gave Maxwell back his DS power...  The changes made to DST were done for a reason. 

[Sinister_Fang]

18 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I think they keep saying it, because it's a valid argument, that your side can't counter argue. 

Ok, now I'm confused. What side do you think I'm on? I'm pro-old bell. I haven't seen any good counter arguments against just rolling back when griefed from side of anti-old bell.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

7 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Ok, now I'm confused. What side do you think I'm on? I'm pro-old bell. I haven't seen any good counter arguments against just rolling back when griefed from side of anti-old bell.

Oh damn, my bad, we are on the same side

[csc_unit]

8 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Ok, now I'm confused

Okkk lol I wasn't alone. I was like, wait a minute ... aren't they on the same side. XD

[Cheetos]

15 hours ago, Josonic said:

I don't believe the ancient skeleton (I believe that's what it was called?) is released on PS4 yet but I could be wrong. How is it like old bell, I know nothing about it.

WHAT?! you guys don't have that update? you're missing out. (though then again people who are playing on this update don't seem to know either).

The Forest Stalker(created on the surface), is the weaker version it can be created only at night, follows the Shadow Thurible, it can clear any Petrified Trees, Trees, Rocks, it also spawns Lightbulbs, Ferns, Glow Berrries along it's path. So it's a good source of refueling light, Moggles and gathering resources, it has a -400/min sanity aura that you can reverse with the Bee Queen Crown. However as the weaker version it falls apart during the day and has to be summoned again next night.

The Cave Stalker(Created in a cave), is the pet Deerclops / personal Abigail (For non wendys). -400/m Sanity Aura as a bit of an demand Sanity Station with the Bee Queen Crown, 4,000 HP, does 100 dmg AOE to players (200 to mobs), has a CC snare. It can be summoned at any time during the cave, and it lasts until it is killed by you or mobs, you can rid of as many trees as you plant, mushtrees, rocks. You can use him to farm multiple spider dens, or farm up Shadow Splumonkeys for food / NM Fuel, help him kill off the Treeguards that may spawn, you can bring them into the ruins to help you clear out the clockworks / gem statues / thule walls. You can also summon multiples if you have the Fossils for it. You can either let them roam nearby and hope it doesn't become an issue or make sure they are weak so they are easy to kill off.

[Toros]

1 hour ago, Sinister_Fang said:

Old bell: 3 uses, 1000 damage each. Total of 3000 damage. Can only gather materials every full moon.

Gunpowder: 40 uses, 200 damage each. Total of 8000 damage. Can gather materials any time you'd like.

Yeah, old bell is op and gunpowder isn't.

*insert comment about how easier it is to use torches and hammers compared to getting the blueprint and materials, as well as mentioning the rollback feature*

The thing is what while you provided a low-effort comment dismissing my point, you don't actually know what you're talking about.

Old bell as a base destroyer is FAR harder to protect against, though by that argument any trolling is negated by the rollback feature.

 

Fingomatics stop both torch and gunpowder options, and by the time you fight deerclops you have enough old bells to nearly kill him for very little work even with DST health values.  Old bell is also a much larger radius and will 1-shot many of the characters and can be used from further away.  Potentially panflute and old bell could kill a group of players from most of a screen away.  Panflute is pretty OP too, and an excellent example of what happens to balance when we don't remove these items from the game.

 

Gunpowder is somewhat OP but also quite expensive to make and kiting saves you time vs making gunpowder for most bosses.  I'm not sure why we need another OP item to solve a problem we don't have.  Old bell is fast and easy to make and would just contribute to the game being that much easier.

[Yuuko]

^ Exactly my point - Old Bell doesn't make the game interesting, or rewarding - it just makes it easy.

[Cheetos]

1 hour ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I think they keep saying it, because it's a valid argument, that your side can't counter argue. 

Other people already did multiple times, can't just ignore them because you don't want to give the arguments any credit lol, that's silly. I want to lay the points out so we can bury the griefer part of the conversation and stop talking it in circles addressing the same points over and over (For both sides).

For:
1). If players want to grief they can build a Torch / Hammer.
2). You can just rollback.

Against:
1). Torches have a tag that you can trace to ban that player.
2). Rolling back isn't always available and without playing a server with active admins it won't take the Old Bell out of their hands.
3). The Old Bell is very accident prone due to poor design for multiplayer, it may not have been intentional grief at all, yet the player still gets punished as one.
4). Adding additional tools to grief with does not equate directly to "The amount of griefing will be exactly the same quantity or less".

Now to move on from grief to the real topic at hand here, why add the Old Bell? I'm against it because as I've repeated, there is already a DST variant added to the game. It's a much more carefully and intelligently crafted item for a multiplayer game (probably added it to replace the aspects of the Old Bell). I think @Shosuko summed up the rest really well.