Things that need improving.

[Yuuko]

Again - that relegates your position to "suggestions I have that I think would make MacTusk better" not "this isn't working as intended."  We can see there are mechanics for 1) things hunting you, and 2) things changing locations, so clearly if they wanted MacTusk to hunt you or change locations it would happen.  You should re-make this thread in the suggestions forum instead of the General Discussion at this point.

Why wouldn't I want this change?  Why would I?  We have enough bosses and interesting mechanics, and further depths to explore without worrying about how easy it is to get a cane (survive till first winter and explore enough to find him.  I've had times where I haven't found him until mid winter, and I've had times where I've only gotten 1 tusk and 0 tam in a winter).  I enjoy finding and killing MacTusk when I play, but I am not convinced he is anything more special than when I find pig king, or set up a bunny vs spider cage, or move pigmen to a more useful location, ect.

As for Bee Queen - yes I think doing a mass of tentacles is a valid tactic.  Besides - it's a raid boss and I play solo.  Getting all that grass and tentacles takes work and preparation.

[Rellimarual]

MacTusk isn't going to be changed because his mechanic has been exactly the same since single player. It clearly is not regarded by the devs as a bug, unlike pengull extinction. So that's a moot point

However, I have to agree with Shosuko that one of the things that makes DS/DST special and worth playing for years is that there are multiple ways to accomplish various tasks, and simply kiting a mob, while fine if that's what thrills you, is the most boring and unimaginative. There's just no reason to assume that kiting is the superior, let alone the only legitimate, way to kill anything, anymore than chopping down all your trees by hand with an ax is the only "authentic" way to get logs. This is true of virtually anything you want to do in DS, and seems far more fundamental to its design than "everything wants to kill you."

[Donke60]

Well I'm all for fixing the field bug in Mctusks AI

but why don't you just make it if his hounds die he will instantly start retreating that way you make it harder my having to deal with the son and one hound. I'm not really for him moving positions unless there was a period of time were you could stop him from moving camp. Then I guess it would be ok  but still seems rather cheap even if you kill him he moves because the cane and tam aren't guarteed drops.

[Lumina]

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

1) How was that a "personal attack"? How is saying " which by the looks of, you don't want to get rid of and that's a shame " a personal attack? How? What planet do you live on? What is this ********?!

Because you are implying that i am a cheater that want to keep an abuse. You said yourself, "that's a shame". So saying that i am doing something you find shameful is an attack.

 

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 

2) It is common and it IS abuse (or an exploit, rather). Just think about it. It's farming of a resource that is not meant to be farmed for you at all. You're supposed to fight the guy for those items that drop, not let a bunch of tentacles or tooth traps near his camp deal with them. You're abusing the AI of the game to farm something, so that is an exploit.

Could you please quote when a dev stated that you aren't supposed to farm mac tusk and when a dev stated that you shouldn't use trap to kill them ?

Could you also explain me, please, why, if you aren't supposed to kill mac tusk with trap, why they aren't trap immune like some monsters in the game ?
 

Thanks.

 

If you can't, then this is your personal point of view, not a fact.

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

3) Avoid the area... sorry, you're not making any sense. And the "effort" for making a book and some tooth traps is quite lame. You could say the same about log suit in favour of it providing 100% protection, because you spend resources to craft it.

I'm saying, if the problem is that mac tusk is spawning in the trap, make the spawn area a little larger so he doesn't spawn in the trap.

 

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

 

5) Koalefant might actually be a bit of an exploit. Same, and especially as is with the Bee Queen. Guards usually kill most of the pigs, to be honest. Traps require a lot of grass, and while effective aren't always a superior method to getting rid of spiders or frogs.

But you just said that spending resources to craft something isn't an effort. Or maybe, just maybe, by any chance, there is shade, and something that cost a lot is acceptable if balanced ? And the difference is that YOU don't find it's balanced here when i don't find it's overpowered, instead of a black and white situation ?

2 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

6) No... most of the game you will be kiting things instead of letting things kill each other. The game's idea is about "everything being out to kill you", whilst it presents itself to be quite the opposite. Simply having the McTusk camp spawn in semi-random locations after being killed would change this for the better, are you really against that so much? Why? You want the game to stay a farming simulator that it was never intended to be and in fact hinders it from being a proper game?

No, most of the game isn't kiting, most of the game. For me, and since DS already, game is about using various method to kill monster. Or let others monsters do the job.

It's not something new, it's not something not normal, it's not cheating, it's not exploiting.

 

But i think that, due to differents reasons, and one is that DST is a multiplayer game, the tricks and tips that were not well known in DS are more common knowledge here. I know that i learned a lot of things by myself in DS, and in DST i'm using this knowledge.

I send enemies in the swamp so tentacles kill them, i let tentacle, merm and spider fight each others so i take the loot, i put rabbit hutch near spider nest so they fight each others, i plant a lot of pinecone near a pig village and cut wood with pigs in the hope that a treeguard will spawn, kill some pigs before they kill him so i have plenty of loot. I put trap around spider nest before attacking one. I give red mushroom to gobbler instead of chasing them forever. When a spider nest is near clockwork monster, i lure them close to each others so they fight each others. If i'm not prepared to an hound attack, i try to go near beefalo, the hound will sooner or later attack the beefalo. I use angry bee to kill various things.

And i'm sure i forget others things.

 

So, having to build a science machine that i don't need otherwise, find a tentacle spot, and use a book that make me lose 50 sanity, it's not exactly free, neither it's against the game.

I'm not agaisnt changes if they are well tuned.

 

But what you don't see is that you want to prevent abuses, or extreme behaviour, without seeing that you will also impact players that aren't abusing. It's one of the hardest part about balance, i think.

Because you can't just change things with the most extreme examples in mind. You have to keep in mind the beginner that learn how to play, but also the players that play the game in a different way, players that don't optimize, ...

 

For example, i don't usually search mac tusk. Meaning that even if i place some tentacles around an igloo, chances are that i will go here once in a winter. Usually i end with some meat and monster meat. Sometimes, a blue gem. And rarely, a tusk. I don't even remember the last time i got a tam o shanter.

So i'm not abusing anything. But a change like you are suggesting could be very annoying for me (because my previous explorations are useless, or because suddently i'll have a mac tusk camp near my camp when i did nothing to deserve the punishment). And for a lot of people that have nothing to do with the "farming mac tusk". Because, YES, in the game, you could do things time to time, you could not "farm" things, you could do something else than killing mac tusk all winter and end with 5 canes and 2 tam o shanter. And when you want to prevent your self made up abuse, you could change the game in worse for others players.

I suggested a change that seems ok for me and add some randomness, so don't tell me i'm against it, i just think it should be done with caution, you disagree about how to do this, ok. But please, don't try to guess the reason i'm against some ideas, because the reason you make up are always like "you want to keep the game awful and bad ?".

You can disagree with me all you want, and think that my ideas are bad, but please, disagreeing with you isn't wanting to keep abuse, want to ruin the game, want to make the game a farming simulator, want to remove all difficulty or whatever. Especially when i spend time explaining why i think it's not a good idea.

I will probably stop here because i will have another "WHHHHAAAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT YOU ARE INSANE I NEVER DID THIS" but you are doing this. You are always implying that i'm agaisnt your idea (or first post idea) because i want bad things, when in fact i think the ideas, here, will not bring goods things.

[GiddyGuy]

2 hours ago, Weirdobob said:

Spoiler

I'm not reading this thread besides the OP, something tells me there's going to be lots of fires on here

But on the topic of smallbirds

KLEI PLS FIX THE BUG WHERE TALLBIRDS KILL THEIR YOUNG AND TEENBIRDS KILL THEIR PARENTS

Literally, it's not hard.

At all.

For some gosh doodle dang reason, you clowns literally made it so they target each other.

They're killing each other because you injected them with the code to do so.

I've heard the excuse from one of you devs that it "Cuts down on tallbird overpopulation"

Excuse me, but if you're so scared they're going to populate, then just make them not. It's better than having to go to the meteor fields to only have my heart broken by watching a family of these magnificent creatures in an all out brawl to kill each other.

You guys mention devs more than me, who do I mention to make sure this gets pushed in the face of every dev and duct taped to their fridge?

 

I wonder if they ever thought of making the teenbirds go out in the world and make nests themselves so they're renewable like beefalo, also you never brought up the set piece tallfort where it has a ton of tallbirds just all in one place.

14 minutes ago, Lumina said:

Because you are implying that i am a cheater that want to keep an abuse. You said yourself, "that's a shame". So saying that i am doing something you find shameful is an attack.

Personal attack was super effective!

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

Just now, Lumina said:

1) Because you are implying that i am a cheater that want to keep an abuse. You said yourself, "that's a shame". So saying that i am doing something you find shameful is an attack.

 

2) Could you please quote when a dev stated that you aren't supposed to farm mac tusk and when a dev stated that you shouldn't use trap to kill them ?

Could you also explain me, please, why, if you aren't supposed to kill mac tusk with trap, why they aren't trap immune like some monsters in the game ?
 

Thanks.

 

If you can't, then this is your personal point of view, not a fact.

3) I'm saying, if the problem is that mac tusk is spawning in the trap, make the spawn area a little larger so he doesn't spawn in the trap.

 

4) But you just said that spending resources to craft something isn't an effort. Or maybe, just maybe, by any chance, there is shade, and something that cost a lot is acceptable if balanced ? And the difference is that YOU don't find it's balanced here when i don't find it's overpowered, instead of a black and white situation ?

5) No, most of the game isn't kiting, most of the game. For me, and since DS already, game is about using various method to kill monster. Or let others monsters do the job.

6) It's not something new, it's not something not normal, it's not cheating, it's not exploiting.

 

7) But i think that, due to differents reasons, and one is that DST is a multiplayer game, the tricks and tips that were not well known in DS are more common knowledge here. I know that i learned a lot of things by myself in DS, and in DST i'm using this knowledge.

I send enemies in the swamp so tentacles kill them, i let tentacle, merm and spider fight each others so i take the loot, i put rabbit hutch near spider nest so they fight each others, i plant a lot of pinecone near a pig village and cut wood with pigs in the hope that a treeguard will spawn, kill some pigs before they kill him so i have plenty of loot. I put trap around spider nest before attacking one. I give red mushroom to gobbler instead of chasing them forever. When a spider nest is near clockwork monster, i lure them close to each others so they fight each others. If i'm not prepared to an hound attack, i try to go near beefalo, the hound will sooner or later attack the beefalo. I use angry bee to kill various things.

And i'm sure i forget others things.

 

8) So, having to build a science machine that i don't need otherwise, find a tentacle spot, and use a book that make me lose 50 sanity, it's not exactly free, neither it's against the game.

I'm not agaisnt changes if they are well tuned.

 

But what you don't see is that you want to prevent abuses, or extreme behaviour, without seeing that you will also impact players that aren't abusing. It's one of the hardest part about balance, i think.

Because you can't just change things with the most extreme examples in mind. You have to keep in mind the beginner that learn how to play, but also the players that play the game in a different way, players that don't optimize, ...

 

9) For example, i don't usually search mac tusk. Meaning that even if i place some tentacles around an igloo, chances are that i will go here once in a winter. Usually i end with some meat and monster meat. Sometimes, a blue gem. And rarely, a tusk. I don't even remember the last time i got a tam o shanter.

10) So i'm not abusing anything. But a change like you are suggesting could be very annoying for me (because my previous explorations are useless, or because suddently i'll have a mac tusk camp near my camp when i did nothing to deserve the punishment). And for a lot of people that have nothing to do with the "farming mac tusk". 11) Because, YES, in the game, you could do things time to time, you could not "farm" things, you could do something else than killing mac tusk all winter and end with 5 canes and 2 tam o shanter. And when you want to prevent your self made up abuse, you could change the game in worse for others players.

12) I suggested a change that seems ok for me and add some randomness, so don't tell me i'm against it, i just think it should be done with caution, you disagree about how to do this, ok. But please, don't try to guess the reason i'm against some ideas, because the reason you make up are always like "you want to keep the game awful and bad ?".

You can disagree with me all you want, and think that my ideas are bad, but please, disagreeing with you isn't wanting to keep abuse, want to ruin the game, want to make the game a farming simulator, want to remove all difficulty or whatever. Especially when i spend time explaining why i think it's not a good idea.

I will probably stop here because i will have another "WHHHHAAAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT YOU ARE INSANE I NEVER DID THIS" but you are doing this. You are always implying that i'm agaisnt your idea (or first post idea) because i want bad things, when in fact i think the ideas, here, will not bring goods things.

1) Pfft, what?! ********! That is not a personal attack! If I find something shameful, it means I'm sad about it, wtf are you talking about?

2) Why would this be relevant? The point is, that the way it's done currently is way too exploitative for items and for mechanics that are meant for a more diverse and involved fight. Why do you think I've been discussing it here? If a dev thought that, they would probably be in the interests to change it already.

What mobs are trap immune? Aside from tentacles, but even if they were possible to kill via tooth traps, it wouldn't make a difference; melee would still be the optimal way to kill them.

And yes, it is a personal point of view, because I'm not for . And since when has anything but the explenations of way the game currently works been a fact? Dev thinking "this needs fixing" or the community having a consensus about something needing changing isn't a fact either, it's an opinion.

You're very manipulative, you know that?

3) That wouldn't change anything. Placing more tooth traps or with space between the camp and the tooth traps would allow for the exploit to still be there, why are you so much against the idea of McTusk spawning in a semi-random place after its killed each time? You're not making any sense to me.

4) ********, I never said that. And... yes? You can have your opinion? But the point is to reason which mechanic would be better for the game. For the McTusk to simply stay as is with the exploits bringing in the goods or you having to go around the world, or simply "stumbling upon them" every time they get killed.

5) Don't know how you do that, but okay? Even then, how is this relevant?

6) How is it not? Farming something that isn't supposed to be farmed in the first place does seem like an exploit. And based on the AI of the party, it isn't supposed to be farmed that easily. It's supposed to be a much more exciting fight, albeit not a boss one, but still not something you would be coming over every 4 days just to get free boss-level loot.

7) Well, that's your play-style and I have nothing to comment on that really.

8) Actually that just proves how easily it is to get to farm things with these tentacles. Whether you find something OP or not is up to you, but take into consideration how the game would be like if this method would no longer be viable; if the McTusk spawned in a semi-random location in the world every time he got killed. How different and more exciting the game would be as a result. Being able to just farm everything ruins the fun in the game, because you have everything, you are hey and there is no goal for you to aim for other than maintaining/activating farms if so necessary.

9) And this is supposed to be a counter-argument how exactly?

10) Guess what? This game is supposed to be punishing. Being able to just farm everything means that the punishment factor is thrown out the window.

11) Again, no idea what your point here is...

12) I never assumed that "you want the game to be bad and aweful". In fact I couldn't understand why you would want to keep things the same, rather than the thing respawning in a semi-random place each time it is killed, that's why I kept asking you. And the thing that I did assume was what made most sense to me; you wanting the game to be a farming simulator, which I'm still unsure if you actually want.

13) Whaaat are you talking about, you're insane, I never did this... I never thought you're insane, I'm just trying to understand what you're trying to say and why you're against the suggestion of McTusk spawning in a semi-random location every time he is killed.

[Lumina]

3 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

What mobs are trap immune?

Mostly, shadow/nightmare monsters are trap immune. Flying monster also are usually.

 

And i'll stop answering for the moment, because i don't feel like it will really be useful at this stade of the discussion.

[Palecwsmalec1]

17 hours ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

 (if anything, right now they aren't vanity items because it takes no skill or effort to have them)

apparently waiting 15 minutes until a skin drops (and skins ARE vanity items) takes "skill" and "effort"

 

You don't get my point dude. The critters arent' supposed to have a purpose. And yes, i did read your reply, and i know that you think of pets as wasted opportunities, but Klei still has plenty of time and resources to add new mechanics, story elements, even characters. Pets were a side thing and they should stay that way. Again, giving them a purpose would be pointless, because that's not what they were designed for.

We already have lots of new content from ANR anyways.

 

The one thing i DO agree with is that having the pets hang around their parents would be really cool. As of right now, getting a pet vargling for example is just "make a monster lasagna and crash some hound mounds" which isn't exactly a challenge. You could also consider the Rock Den as some sort of adoption centre for abandoned animals, and that would give it a bit of a depressing side.. But that's probably stretching it a bit too much.

 

EDIT: and before you ask, i don't consider top hats or tams full-on vanity items, because they actually have a good function besides looking good.

[TheKingDedede]

Just a friendly reminder to keep things on-topic and friendly. If you must argue, take it to the PMs before a moderator is called to lock the thread down.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

2 hours ago, Palecwsmalec1 said:

The one thing i DO agree with is that having the pets hang around their parents would be really cool. As of right now, getting a pet vargling for example is just "make a monster lasagna and crash some hound mounds" which isn't exactly a challenge. You could also consider the Rock Den as some sort of adoption centre for abandoned animals, and that would give it a bit of a depressing side.. But that's probably stretching it a bit too much.

This is literally the only thing I care about. Everything else is secondary. I just want to critters to show up naturally in the wild. So I guess we can agree on that. 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

2 hours ago, TheKingDedede said:

Just a friendly reminder to keep things on-topic and friendly. If you must argue, take it to the PMs before a moderator is called to lock the thread down.

I hate when people post these things to present themselves as some moderator heroes, when there's little to no tension in the topic at all. So please, stop it.

3 hours ago, Palecwsmalec1 said:

apparently waiting 15 minutes until a skin drops (and skins ARE vanity items) takes "skill" and "effort"

 

You don't get my point dude. The critters arent' supposed to have a purpose. And yes, i did read your reply, and i know that you think of pets as wasted opportunities, but Klei still has plenty of time and resources to add new mechanics, story elements, even characters. Pets were a side thing and they should stay that way. Again, giving them a purpose would be pointless, because that's not what they were designed for.

We already have lots of new content from ANR anyways.

 

The one thing i DO agree with is that having the pets hang around their parents would be really cool. As of right now, getting a pet vargling for example is just "make a monster lasagna and crash some hound mounds" which isn't exactly a challenge. You could also consider the Rock Den as some sort of adoption centre for abandoned animals, and that would give it a bit of a depressing side.. But that's probably stretching it a bit too much.

 

EDIT: and before you ask, i don't consider top hats or tams full-on vanity items, because they actually have a good function besides looking good.

Not giving critters a purpose is wasted potential, hence it isn't pointless to make them more of a thing to raise one for the sake of renewing something in the world or something. And if they're just vanity items, why would they need to pose a challenge? I do agree they should be a bit more challenging to obtain, and from their respective parent animals, but not without them having the purpose of renewing something in the world or something along the lines once raised. They're annoying as hell right now because they squeak for food when they don't even need it (since they are immortal).

Yes, tams and canes are not really vanity items, they are more like boss-level drops from a normal, special mob... But wait, then you're contradicting your statement with the skins!

[Palecwsmalec1]

3 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Yes, tams and canes are not really vanity items, they are more like boss-level drops from a normal, special mob... But wait, then you're contradicting your statement with the skins!

How is that contradicting my statement with the skins? King Of Squirrels said himself that pets can't be considered vanity because they take no skill or effort to get. I said that skins, which take no effort either ARE vanity items.

What i said at the end of my post was that i don't consider tams and canes vanity because they have a great function and are relatively tough to get unlike things like skins.

What am i contradicting myself in? Unless you consider pets a "boss-level drop" (which i guess i do agree when talking about the Broodling or Ewelet), but i don't.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

1 hour ago, Palecwsmalec1 said:

How is that contradicting my statement with the skins? King Of Squirrels said himself that pets can't be considered vanity because they take no skill or effort to get. I said that skins, which take no effort either ARE vanity items.

What i said at the end of my post was that i don't consider tams and canes vanity because they have a great function and are relatively tough to get unlike things like skins.

What am i contradicting myself in? Unless you consider pets a "boss-level drop" (which i guess i do agree when talking about the Broodling or Ewelet), but i don't.

Nvm, looks like I made a mistake in understanding what was written, apologies.

[Palecwsmalec1]

2 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Nvm, looks like I made a mistake in understanding what was written, apologies.

Yeah, it's alright

[Destros09]

Flame war battleground here get your popcorn