Things that need improving.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

18 hours ago, G0dsend said:

No offense, but based on this it sounds like your asking for changes based on the fact that you are no longer able to get the new game experience. I mean every time you start a challenging game for the first time as a toddler with no clue of how the world works, your going to encounter an experience like this where you get demolished and trying to figure out how to prevent that adds to the enjoyment of the game. But after spending a significant amount of time in any game that feeling goes away, and should be replaced with a sense of accomplishment or nostalgia. I mean Dragonfly is not a challenge for me anymore. But you should not go and demand that a mob should be more difficult because he's not as challenging as he was when you did not have a clue what was going on... that just makes no sense and makes it more difficult for the other players who come into this and still have no clue what is going on. Besides that there is a winter mob that does actually hunt you down.... Deerclops.

Again, no offense. I just see no reason to request a change based on subjective and situational feelings. But if you really want to feel like your being hunted... just turn on pvp and open your game up to the public....

KingOfSquirrels made a good point however; exploits. You can easily farm this dude once you know its location.

Imagine how much more difficult the game would be if every time McTusk changed his camp location and hunted down a certain player with enough days lived.

And for those worrying about the drop chance of his special items, you do know that can always be changed too, right?

As of now, you can simply place a bunch of tooth traps around his camp and be done with it, farming up the loot. Game allowing you to get through that real easy is a bit counter-intuitive, don't you think? Reappearing in semi-random locations and hunting a player down if they have survived enough days, can mean they are designed better for an actual game. Why should Klei cater to allowing you to beat the game so easily once you know the ins-and-outs of it? It just makes it ever-so more boring, don't you think?

If McTusk were to be changed in this way, it would not become too much harder for newbies, while at the same time it would become tougher to handle for pros and get rid of it simply being farmed. Not knowing exactly when you'll be approached by one can also be part of the challenge. So why keep the change away?

[TheKingofSquirrels]

15 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

Fortunately, there is zero chance that an element of the game so long established will be changed on the basis of one random, nostalgia-driven complaint.

I  want to add, that the anecdote I told wasn't the sole argument. It's just where I got the idea from to make these mobs more interesting, rather than the broken mess that they are now. 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

17 hours ago, Donke60 said:

1) Well that doesn't mean that his mechnics should be changed every vetran player myself included might miss those noob experinces but changing the game just so you can get those back is kinda dum. Let newer players have those

 

2) and I don't think Mctusk should activily hunt there already a lot of mobs already that if hostile go on a craze chase. Plus their just a family on Vacation your not playing a recreation of "The Most Dangerous Game"

 

3) eh you could do it that way I just distract him with a catcoon or usaally pig man so I can go behind him and kill him saves a lot of time.
The reason his AI is like that is its with most mobs honestly its just a limtion of the AI and it doesn't need to be fixed because it's not really broken.

 

4) Thats not really a fair point Wigfrid is suppose to be really good at fighting things even if her buffs are on the "heavy" side doesn't really make it a good point. Because not eveybody is going to be Wigfid and it just means Wig has an easier time fighting mobs or dangerous ones which is suppose to happen.

1) How doesn't it mean that? It seems as if what you're trying to imply here is "no change, because raisins". Give a good reason why it shouldn't be changed, because I gave a good reason why it should.

2) They're called "McTusk HUNTING party".

3) McTusk's the only one I know that has this glitch. And yes, it is a glitch that needs fixing, why are you actively trying to prevent any change when good reasons for it have been given to you whilst you're not really giving any good counter-arguments back?

4) Since Wigfrid is a combat-oriented character, that is a good point, so props to you for that at least.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

15 hours ago, Rellimarual said:

Fortunately, there is zero chance that an element of the game so long established will be changed on the basis of one random, nostalgia-driven complaint.

False. Pengulls and glaciers got fixed. Tooth traps got the space-bar change that wasn't too highly requested actually. Compass got changed to be slightly more useful and available. There's probably more that I can't recall right now.

12 hours ago, Lumina said:

Especially when it's working fine. How do they say that in english ? If it's not broken don't fix it ?

After all, it's why mod are for, when you dislike something that is fine for most of people and want it to fit your personal taste.

It isn't working fine, the glitch is there, the exploit is there and it's more like you are hunting them than the other way round.

Stop using mods as excuse please. Changing something for the better doesn't mean you need mods for that change. And plus, modding takes longer than actually implementing something in the game because of the way code-application works through modding. What might take 3 lines of code in the game might take 3 or more long functions to implement through modding and even then it might not be optimal (e.g. Lazy Forager as an example, Rezecib knows what I'm talking about).

What's more, there are multiple factors for why you wouldn't want server mods at all; it means you're less likely for people to join your server and most servers play without it, so you can't get comfy with your changes unless you're only ever playing on your server.

Think about what will happen after this change is in the game... There will be no exploitability, there will be no you being the hunter, and more challenge will be laid out to the player. Plus, it will be coming to you instead of the other way round, so you would just need to be prepared for their attack instead of going out of your way to get to their camp and hunt them down. So what exactly is it that makes people here not want this change? You want to farm the thing? Why? Feel like you're the king of the game? Why do you want this?

[Palecwsmalec1]

51 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

*wall of text*

The thing is, McTusk isn't supposed to be hunting the player. He's on a family vacation with his son and his dogs, and the hunting is just a fun passtime. He isn't specifically chasing you, he goes on small trips and shoots whatever comes up. This can be anything ranging from a human to a deer.

 

Besides actual game lore, having him chase a single player would make it a LOT more annoying to fight. As many people have said before, we already have hound waves and Deerclops to take care of, and making McTusk come for your ass every 3 days is just another hassle.

Also, it would remove another reason to go out in winter. Most of the time you can just snuggle up home and occasionally go out to dig up ice, then come back and sit it out until the next hound wave/deerclops. McTusk is supposed to be the hunter, yes, but again, he's not supposed to be actively searching out for meat. Making him lounge about near his igloo makes going out to search the map during winter a great idea to players, as the thought of faster travel and easy sanity is attractive.

 

TL;DR: McTusk isn't supposed to be hunting the player. He's supposed to be on a family vacation, and the hunting part is just a hobby.

[Rellimarual]

MacTusk isn't supposed to be a boss. He's a mid level challenge that works just fine. Triple tusks can still kill experienced players if you've got more than one attacking you and not enough armor. One is a good challenge for newer players. The fact that something is easy for people with 1000 hours in the game is not a good reason to change it. The game needs an assortment of challenges to appeal to players at all levels.

[Lumina]

55 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

But it is broken tho....

You didn't answered my previous question about the so huge amount of things to do in winter, i don't expect you to answer this one, what is broken exactly ?

 

15 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Imagine how much more difficult the game would be if every time McTusk changed his camp location and hunted down a certain player with enough days lived.

I still don't think mac tusk hunted down a player will make it more fun or anything like it, neither "difficult" in the right meaning (because you could make things more tedious, they are more difficult but not the right kind of difficult).

What i could agree about is : mac tusk moving camp could be a good idea AS LONG AS DONE RIGHT. Meaning : no spawn of a mac tuck base near the player base, ruining days of work because an annoying enemi spawned at the wrong place.

Maybe more like : each mac tusk has like 3 camp, and they rotate between them, maybe even during the same winter.

 

2 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Stop using mods as excuse please. Changing something for the better doesn't mean you need mods for that change. And plus, modding takes longer than actually implementing something in the game because of the way code-application works through modding. What might take 3 lines of code in the game might take 3 or more long functions to implement through modding and even then it might not be optimal (e.g. Lazy Forager as an example, Rezecib knows what I'm talking about).

I'm not using mod as an excuse.

The change proposed here is bad, not balanced, not fun, and will make the game less good than it is. It's an egoistic change, for someone who want something new in a hope that will be disappointed because anyway, he is too good at the game now and will find a way to ruin the difficulty of a new mac tusk eventually.

So if he still want it, mod is the way to go, because at least this way he will not ruin others players pleasures.

 

5 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Think about what will happen after this change is in the game... There will be no exploitability, there will be no you being the hunter, and more challenge will be laid out to the player. Plus, it will be coming to you instead of the other way round, so you would just need to be prepared for their attack instead of going out of your way to get to their camp and hunt them down. So what exactly is it that makes people here not want this change? You want to farm the thing? Why? Feel like you're the king of the game? Why do you want this?

I already answered.

What will happen is that i will have no time to play a little, because i'll have hound attacking me, then mac tusk, then hound again, then deerclop and i hate when i have too many attack that prevent me to do fun things.

What will happen is being hunted will be tedious instead of a challenge, because i already HAVE things that come to me instead of the other way round, i already have enough of them, i don't need more. I don't need more, especially if it's still a "something come after you, you have to kill it". Because it already exist, and it's not new or challenging.

Because i already have to prepare for hounds attack, and for preparing spring, and even summer, because i don't need another chore added to this. Especially the first winter.

Because i like the idea of having to lead the attack, search the mac tusk camp, preparing traps or dart, controling the events. And the fact that if i don't prepare and lead the attack i don't have rewards. I started a game recently, didn't search and found mac tusk camp, and i didn't encounter them during winter, obviously. So i didn't get the cane or the tam o shanter, because i didn't work for it.

I usually don't search mac tuck the first winter. After it, sometimes i use my tentacle book to spawn some tentacle around a camp, and maybe prepare some dart, for the next winter. And so i don't have the reward for mac tusk.

But if mac tusk come to me, i'll have it more often than now, in fact. Because i don't have to do all the search work, and i just have to put some traps that will be useful for hounds too, or some darts, and i'm done. Instead of searching a camp, putting trap, returning to the camp when winter is here, and it's more dangerous to leave my camp in winter than turtling. More things could happen outside of camp.

 

I have the feeling that you hope it will be better, but you are ignoring facts that will make it not working. You just ignore the fact that another monster hunting you is boring and not original and not really more dangerous, that it will encourage the player to stay in this base, that encouraging the player to go outside his base is creating situations that could be more dangerous than another monster hunting you. That it will be boring for new players because they will not have time to learn the game, and boring for old players because they already know how to face this kind of danger.

 

Diversity is important. You need balance between things trying to kill you and things that you try to kill, between things coming to you and things when you have to move, between hard challenge and easy one.

 

Also, you don't want to hear that changing mac tusk will reduce options and make the game less rich.

 

I would rather prefer something new, and something coming during spring, so it will add diversity. And maybe something that come, not to kill you, but to encourage something else ?

[TheKingofSquirrels]

41 minutes ago, Rellimarual said:

MacTusk isn't supposed to be a boss. He's a mid level challenge that works just fine. Triple tusks can still kill experienced players if you've got more than one attacking you and not enough armor. One is a good challenge for newer players. The fact that something is easy for people with 1000 hours in the game is not a good reason to change it. The game needs an assortment of challenges to appeal to players at all levels.

I agree with this, I´m not saying he should be a boss. Mactusk walks so slowly, that chances are if a player is far enough, it will probably never make it. Also, he doesn't pose that much of a threat anyway. 

What I want is a creature that feels "alive" (this is also why I hate critters), rather than it just being something that just stands in one place waiting to be farmed. 

[Donke60]

5 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

) How doesn't it mean that? It seems as if what you're trying to imply here is "no change, because raisins". Give a good reason why it shouldn't be changed, because I gave a good reason why it should.

Mctusk has always been like that i'm saying that because most people are experinced mctusk is nothing for us to handle but he is still a challege for "new: players

 

5 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

McTusk's the only one I know that has this glitch. And yes, it is a glitch that needs fixing, why are you actively trying to prevent any change when good reasons for it have been given to you whilst you're not really giving any good counter-arguments back?

Just because you say it is doesn't make it so and because Mctusk is a very old mob Kiel problably knows about so its not going to get fixed or not on a short time on the simple fact its not game breaking or destroys it an any way

 

5 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

hey're called "McTusk HUNTING party".

yeah but not " human hunting party meant for "The most dangerous Game"

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

53 minutes ago, Lumina said:

You didn't answered my previous question about the so huge amount of things to do in winter, i don't expect you to answer this one, what is broken exactly ?

 

I still don't think mac tusk hunted down a player will make it more fun or anything like it, neither "difficult" in the right meaning (because you could make things more tedious, they are more difficult but not the right kind of difficult).

What i could agree about is : mac tusk moving camp could be a good idea AS LONG AS DONE RIGHT. Meaning : no spawn of a mac tuck base near the player base, ruining days of work because an annoying enemi spawned at the wrong place.

Maybe more like : each mac tusk has like 3 camp, and they rotate between them, maybe even during the same winter.

 

I'm not using mod as an excuse.

The change proposed here is bad, not balanced, not fun, and will make the game less good than it is. It's an egoistic change, for someone who want something new in a hope that will be disappointed because anyway, he is too good at the game now and will find a way to ruin the difficulty of a new mac tusk eventually.

So if he still want it, mod is the way to go, because at least this way he will not ruin others players pleasures.

 

I already answered.

What will happen is that i will have no time to play a little, because i'll have hound attacking me, then mac tusk, then hound again, then deerclop and i hate when i have too many attack that prevent me to do fun things.

What will happen is being hunted will be tedious instead of a challenge, because i already HAVE things that come to me instead of the other way round, i already have enough of them, i don't need more. I don't need more, especially if it's still a "something come after you, you have to kill it". Because it already exist, and it's not new or challenging.

Because i already have to prepare for hounds attack, and for preparing spring, and even summer, because i don't need another chore added to this. Especially the first winter.

Because i like the idea of having to lead the attack, search the mac tusk camp, preparing traps or dart, controling the events. And the fact that if i don't prepare and lead the attack i don't have rewards. I started a game recently, didn't search and found mac tusk camp, and i didn't encounter them during winter, obviously. So i didn't get the cane or the tam o shanter, because i didn't work for it.

I usually don't search mac tuck the first winter. After it, sometimes i use my tentacle book to spawn some tentacle around a camp, and maybe prepare some dart, for the next winter. And so i don't have the reward for mac tusk.

But if mac tusk come to me, i'll have it more often than now, in fact. Because i don't have to do all the search work, and i just have to put some traps that will be useful for hounds too, or some darts, and i'm done. Instead of searching a camp, putting trap, returning to the camp when winter is here, and it's more dangerous to leave my camp in winter than turtling. More things could happen outside of camp.

 

I have the feeling that you hope it will be better, but you are ignoring facts that will make it not working. You just ignore the fact that another monster hunting you is boring and not original and not really more dangerous, that it will encourage the player to stay in this base, that encouraging the player to go outside his base is creating situations that could be more dangerous than another monster hunting you. That it will be boring for new players because they will not have time to learn the game, and boring for old players because they already know how to face this kind of danger.

 

Diversity is important. You need balance between things trying to kill you and things that you try to kill, between things coming to you and things when you have to move, between hard challenge and easy one.

 

Also, you don't want to hear that changing mac tusk will reduce options and make the game less rich.

 

I would rather prefer something new, and something coming during spring, so it will add diversity. And maybe something that come, not to kill you, but to encourage something else ?

The text in bold; "they will find a way to do it eventually" is a bad statement. Hound wave avoidance by sitting on the edge of the map has been fixed. Have people found a different way to do this? No... Bottom line is, there are a limited amount of things you can do in the game and so long as that is the case, you can only either increase that number or decrease that number. There is no "essentially" otherwise I'd be swimming in butter and Waffles as my main food item right now or eating gears all day long.

This is the problem; you being in control; everything going the way you planned it to. That isn't what the game was meant for, so neither it should be, because then, as I mentioned before, you get the problem of players being able to make things become easy for them just because they know how something works. There are ways of making things challenging even when the player knows how they work and how to deal with them.

I will say that you have made a good point about the McTusk hunting you down, so I'm retracting from being for that feature. Howevever, there being specific spawn points for the camps that the McTusks rotate around in would not get rid of the exploits (which by the looks of, you don't want to get rid of and that's a shame); it would just mean that more traps would need to be laid out, or tentacles spawned in more places (all of the camps). If the location of camps is semi-random, however, and you have no proper idea of where they will camp next, then going around the world to encounter them would be a must, but you would never know whether you would encounter them along the way or not. That is, if they don't go after you to hunt you down from half way accross the map. So, their camp reappearing in a different place a few days later (be it nearby base or elsewhere) could pose a cool challenge and make tentacle and tooth trap methods for fighting them obsolete.

Right now, once you find their camp the first time, you are relatively safe from being hunted down. Doing this in autumn, which you will most likely do anyway, means they are no longer a threat of any sorts, with a reward that is way too good for the whole farming method.

Of course, getting rid of that AI bug that makes the fight extremely trivial after a certain point is important as well.

15 minutes ago, Donke60 said:

1) Mctusk has always been like that i'm saying that because most people are experinced mctusk is nothing for us to handle but he is still a challege for "new: players

 

2) Just because you say it is doesn't make it so and because Mctusk is a very old mob Kiel problably knows about so its not going to get fixed or not on a short time on the simple fact its not game breaking or destroys it an any way

 

3) yeah but not " human hunting party meant for "The most dangerous Game"

1) Just because it's been like that from the start doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. And my proposed suggestion wouldn't make it any more challenging for new players, it would make it more challenging for senior players and would make the party less, if not impossible to farm in any way (i.e. surrounding the camp via tentacles or tooth traps). Retracting my thought on them specifically hunting you down, if they spawned in a semi-random location accross the world, then moving out of your base would also be encouraged.

2) But it's a glitch... I know that for a fact... And hence it should be changed (fixed). And it is quite game-breaking; you can get real close to McTusk way too easily because of this and stun it till it dies. Kind of like with Werepigs and sometimes pigs as well (the stun).

3) No idea what you mean there.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

32 minutes ago, Lumina said:

You didn't answered my previous question about the so huge amount of things to do in winter, i don't expect you to answer this one, what is broken exactly ?

Winter is like any season, you go out to explore and you expand your base (the only season that isn't like that is Summer with the addition of the Antlion, which I really like btw). And I agree! Winter can be really boring between days 20-30, so if anything, this would make things more interesting.

It's broken because it doesn't feel like a living creature, but instead just an idle mod that you can easily farm. 

37 minutes ago, Lumina said:

What i could agree about is : mac tusk moving camp could be a good idea AS LONG AS DONE RIGHT. Meaning : no spawn of a mac tuck base near the player base, ruining days of work because an annoying enemi spawned at the wrong place.

My idea was that they start from their Walrus Camp and slowly make their way to you. So you know where they come from. 

40 minutes ago, Lumina said:

I'm not using mod as an excuse.

I always get that feeling. I always get the "this would be a great mod" reply from people. Mods are nice, but they don't last. If the developer stops updating, they just die. 

For example, there was this great mod called Krampus night, where one night in Winter, krampuses would attack your base. I really liked it cause, like I said earlier, Winter can be so boring. 

But mods never last. That's why I like putting this idea here, where maybe it

44 minutes ago, Lumina said:

The change proposed here is bad

Subjective.

Currently, in my opinion Mactusk is bad. Either they are free food, and items. Or, which is what's happening lately, I barely interact with them. I always find their items on the ground because they die off, because all they do is stand there slowly loosing health to the environment that surrounds them. 

If you think that's fun and balanced, then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

[TheKingofSquirrels]

52 minutes ago, Lumina said:

I usually don't search mac tuck the first winter. After it, sometimes i use my tentacle book to spawn some tentacle around a camp.

None of this sounds fun or balanced. Easy farming. 

[Lumina]

11 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

Howevever, there being specific spawn points for the camps that the McTusks rotate around in would not get rid of the exploits (which by the looks of, you don't want to get rid of and that's a shame); it would just mean that more traps would need to be laid out, or tentacles spawned in more places (all of the camps).

You really have to stop personal attack like this, accusing people to want to keep abuses. Thanks.

You and TheKingOfSquirrels will have to explain why using tentacles and trap are an exploit.

 

 

Because using tentacles or trap for killing an enemy is something common and not really an abuse. Or is using trap around spider den is an abuse ? (the other kind of trap)

If the prob is that the mac tusk spawn too close of the trap to avoid it, just make the spawn area a little larger and it's fine. Yes, you could know that a mac tusk will spawn here and use it against it. It doesn't mean that it's an abuse. You have to prepare traps and tentacles, you have to spend resources and (with tentacle) expose yourself to danger.

Sure, danger is lower this way. But it's one of the point of the game, no ? Find how to avoid danger. Kiting, trap, using allies, lure as meat or carrot, red mushroom to poison enemies eating food, lureplant...

 

So why putting trap around the igloo of mac tusk will be more an exploit than using pig to kill a treeguard ? Or a tentacle to kill koalefant ? Or trapping spider in trap ? Or is everything an abuse ?

Because maybe you should ask for klei to redo the entire game, it will probably be faster.

 

 

And i don't mind if IA of mac tusk is improved and if for example he run far away from tentacle so it's harder to kill him with them. Or if he spawn in a larger area around his igloo so you have to cover more area if you want to be sure to kill him.

 

But most of the game is about avoiding direct combat and luring enemies in situation when something else than you will do the job. So why it's suddently an abuse ?

[Lumina]

30 minutes ago, TheKingofSquirrels said:

I always get that feeling. I always get the "this would be a great mod" reply from people. Mods are nice, but they don't last. If the developer stops updating, they just die. 

I maintain that mods are great when it comes, like this, about things that are fine for most people, when just some people want it to be changed in a very specific way.

And here, it's clear that your idea got a lot of "no, it's fine like it is" and only one "yes, change it".

 

So yes, this is better for a mod rather than a vanilla game change. And if klei change it a day, fine, i will accept it.

 

But i would rather prefer klei to add new things into the game, than to change a content that is working ok for me. Sure, they should fix broken things, bugs, exploits, but i don't feel like they should change a monster with a base that will attack you if you disturb him in a monster that will hunt you (in a more tedious way than already existing monster that hunt you), just because you will find it better.

Because one isn't necessary better than the other, and the balance is important, we need both.

 

I would rather prefer a new monster hunting player (and i would rather prefer something different than the current "follow you to kill you"), and in another season (as said, spring seems fine since the giant here doesn't hunt you). I would even say that maybe it should be something appearing after year 1, for example.

[Mr.Tarunio]

Quote

1. Have fun!
2. Be respectful.
3. Don’t be a jerk.
4. Stay on topic.

Keep arguments and personal issues private: If you’re that angry about something someone said, take a break away from the forums. If you still feel that it’s necessary to argue with someone, please do privately. Public arguments only cause hostility, distress, or discomfort for other community members. 

 

 

[Palecwsmalec1]

What's so wrong about critters anyway? They're supposed to be a fun side vanity mob that does cute stuff. Not everything in videogames is supposed to have a purpose. Giving a kitty a function in-game is like making sweater vest skins give you insulation. It's completely pointless and goes against the idea of a vanity item. Why would you wanna change the pets?

[TheKingofSquirrels]

1 hour ago, Lumina said:

I would rather prefer a new monster hunting player 

I just think it would be logical, lore wise, to make the "Father and Son Walrus Hunting Party" be what you just described.

I do understand that you feel that Winter is a bit crowded. I get that. I personally, I get bored during Winter.

Also, I´m not sure if you were referring to me, but I´m sorry if what I said came across as a personal attack. 

[TheKingofSquirrels]

40 minutes ago, Palecwsmalec1 said:

What's so wrong about critters anyway?

Ugh.

They are not fun. Ok, maybe they are for the first five minutes you get them. 

42 minutes ago, Palecwsmalec1 said:

Not everything in videogames is supposed to have a purpose. Giving a kitty a function in-game is like making sweater vest skins give you insulation. Why would you wanna change the pets?

True, but it's more to do that it's a waste of potential. I personally, and I think a lot of people, play this game for a sense of immersion. We like to feel the world is alive. How great would it be to see like a kittykat follow a mamma Catcoon in the wild? Give a sense that the world is "alive".

And also, them being immortal is again, a waste. For example, I appreciate the relationships I build with followers such as Glommer and Chester, because it meant SOMETHING. You had to work to get them and you had to work to keep them. They could die. I couldn't just run with them into a fight with Deerclops. 

And I don't know why you think that the at the same time they can´t also be a vanity items (if anything, right now they aren't vanity items because it takes no skill or effort to have them). So really, why wouldn't you wanna change pets? 

[Yuuko]

I agree on pets being a bit worthless.  I would much rather trade the pet system for an expanding taming system.  We can befriend catcoons and pigmen, and domesticate beefalos, and raise smallbirds.  Why not just expand the taming system and then integrate it to pet system.  Let us take a pet with us sometimes, but leave it at base for other times.  Maybe we can tame a hound to make the hound pet, and the hound pet can give us an early warning of hound attacks or boss spawns.  Maybe if we take the dfly larva and revive it and raise it then it can give a little warmth arua.  Basically take what we have for taming / befriending, and what we have for pets, and combine them so that pets aren't so easy to obtain, or keep - but also aren't just cosmetic.  I could appreciate that (although it's not very high on my wish list)

However - I think some people are glorifying MacTusk a bit much here.  They act as if he is flawed because he acts like most other mobs...  This game is largely about being given a world and then exploiting it.  I could see an argument to change his fleeing mechanic, give him a better response when he is attacked after fleeing too far when he starts to walk back, maybe even remove his hit stun...  But to say setting up tentacles, pig men, tooth traps, or other devices to farm him is basically going against the entire design of the game is being dismissive of the games entire premise.

How this game works is we're given a world, and we exploit it.  We put bunnymen in a cage with spiders so they fight each other.  We drop 80 berries next to a werepig to get unlimited poops.  We build a sign away from base for Deerclopse to come give high 5 to.  This isn't even all "top tier" play - new players can run a hound attack into a herd of beefalo, a spiders nest, tentacles, killer bees ect ect ect to avoid the attack...  It is one of the most basic elements of this game.

[G0dsend]

9 hours ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

KingOfSquirrels made a good point however; exploits. You can easily farm this dude once you know its location.

Imagine how much more difficult the game would be if every time McTusk changed his camp location and hunted down a certain player with enough days lived.

And for those worrying about the drop chance of his special items, you do know that can always be changed too, right?

As of now, you can simply place a bunch of tooth traps around his camp and be done with it, farming up the loot. Game allowing you to get through that real easy is a bit counter-intuitive, don't you think? Reappearing in semi-random locations and hunting a player down if they have survived enough days, can mean they are designed better for an actual game. Why should Klei cater to allowing you to beat the game so easily once you know the ins-and-outs of it? It just makes it ever-so more boring, don't you think?

If McTusk were to be changed in this way, it would not become too much harder for newbies, while at the same time it would become tougher to handle for pros and get rid of it simply being farmed. Not knowing exactly when you'll be approached by one can also be part of the challenge. So why keep the change away?

You realize you countered your own argument here right? It would not become more difficult for pros because they would simply use the traps integrated into their own base for hounds.... not to mention they already know or should know how to combat Mac'Tusk. This would only negatively impact new players who do not know how to combat the mob yet. While benefiting the older players because now Mac'Tusk comes to you... you no longer need to seek him out for that tasty loots.... So why exactly should Klei waste time and funding to change the location and behavior of a generally easy to fight mob and cater to as I previously stated subjective feelings of rose-tinted glasses when it will not have the effect you intend at all. Again no offense (Fully aware I can come of abrasively it is not intended), but I don't see why this discussion continues when it does not make sense. They would be better spending their time by making new challenging content for the more experienced player.

[Lumina]

36 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

This game is largely about being given a world and then exploiting it.  I could see an argument to change his fleeing mechanic, give him a better response when he is attacked after fleeing too far when he starts to walk back, maybe even remove his hit stun...

I would not really say "exploiting", but i feel like it's one of the things about the game, you learn how to survive by, mostly, avoiding direct dangers and making others things (monsters, trap, etc... ) doing the job for you.

And yes, sure, we could improve mac tusk to avoid him being too weak against some dangers.

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

3 hours ago, Lumina said:

1) You really have to stop personal attack like this, accusing people to want to keep abuses. Thanks.

You and TheKingOfSquirrels will have to explain why using tentacles and trap are an exploit.

 

 

Because using tentacles or trap for killing an enemy 2) is something common and not really an abuse. Or is using trap around spider den is an abuse ? (the other kind of trap)

3) If the prob is that the mac tusk spawn too close of the trap to avoid it, just make the spawn area a little larger and it's fine. Yes, you could know that a mac tusk will spawn here and use it against it. It doesn't mean that it's an abuse. You have to prepare traps and tentacles, you have to spend resources and (with tentacle) expose yourself to danger.

4) Sure, danger is lower this way. But it's one of the point of the game, no ? Find how to avoid danger. Kiting, trap, using allies, lure as meat or carrot, red mushroom to poison enemies eating food, lureplant...

 

5) So why putting trap around the igloo of mac tusk will be more an exploit than using pig to kill a treeguard ? Or a tentacle to kill koalefant ? Or trapping spider in trap ? Or is everything an abuse ?

Because maybe you should ask for klei to redo the entire game, it will probably be faster.

 

 

And i don't mind if IA of mac tusk is improved and if for example he run far away from tentacle so it's harder to kill him with them. Or if he spawn in a larger area around his igloo so you have to cover more area if you want to be sure to kill him.

 

6) But most of the game is about avoiding direct combat and luring enemies in situation when something else than you will do the job. So why it's suddently an abuse ?

1) How was that a "personal attack"? How is saying " which by the looks of, you don't want to get rid of and that's a shame " a personal attack? How? What planet do you live on? What is this ********?!

2) It is common and it IS abuse (or an exploit, rather). Just think about it. It's farming of a resource that is not meant to be farmed for you at all. You're supposed to fight the guy for those items that drop, not let a bunch of tentacles or tooth traps near his camp deal with them. You're abusing the AI of the game to farm something, so that is an exploit.

3) Avoid the area... sorry, you're not making any sense. And the "effort" for making a book and some tooth traps is quite lame. You could say the same about log suit in favour of it providing 100% protection, because you spend resources to craft it.

4) I am pretty sure this isn't how these guys were intended to be fought like. What's the point of the whole blow dart AI, it chasing you, running away from you, calling its hounds and so forth if all you're gonna do is leave traps or tentacles around for it to step on and die the moment you come around its camp?

5) Koalefant might actually be a bit of an exploit. Same, and especially as is with the Bee Queen. Guards usually kill most of the pigs, to be honest. Traps require a lot of grass, and while effective aren't always a superior method to getting rid of spiders or frogs.

6) No... most of the game you will be kiting things instead of letting things kill each other. The game's idea is about "everything being out to kill you", whilst it presents itself to be quite the opposite. Simply having the McTusk camp spawn in semi-random locations after being killed would change this for the better, are you really against that so much? Why? You want the game to stay a farming simulator that it was never intended to be and in fact hinders it from being a proper game?

[Yuuko]

26 minutes ago, EuedeAdodooedoe said:

2) It is common and it IS abuse (or an exploit, rather). Just think about it. It's farming of a resource that is not meant to be farmed for you at all. You're supposed to fight the guy for those items that drop, not let a bunch of tentacles or tooth traps near his camp deal with them. You're abusing the AI of the game to farm something, so that is an exploit.

6) No... most of the game you will be kiting things instead of letting things kill each other. The game's idea is about "everything being out to kill you", whilst it presents itself to be quite the opposite. Simply having the McTusk camp spawn in semi-random locations after being killed would change this for the better, are you really against that so much? Why? You want the game to stay a farming simulator that it was never intended to be and in fact hinders it from being a proper game?

2 - everything in this game is to be farmed.  Spiders, bunnys, pigs, ore, lumber, deerclopse, and MacTusk are ALL meant to be farmed.  If they weren't, they wouldn't give us loot!  Certainly these things are supposed to be challenging at first, but they all fall to a different degree of challenge.  At first spiders are a challenge, but once you learn how to deal with them they become a non-issue and you farm them for their resources.  Same with hound attacks - those attacks are (ironically) the biggest method of building fields of tooth traps to deal with hound attacks haha.  Deerclopse can be walked into hundreds of trees to provide easy logging AND spawn the tree guards that will aggro him and fight him for you...

Again - In this type of game the world is given to us to exploit.  This isn't a fighting game simulator, it is a survival game that shows you early on that you are not always supposed to fight things directly.

The only thing I can say is an abuse of AI is that if you chase him, he will eventually completely ignore you and walk back even if he is being attacked.  THAT I could consider a bug / exploit and I could imagine that being fixed.  The idea that putting down tooth traps, summoning tentacles, building pig houses, ect are "bug / exploit" level offenses is just ridiculous.  This is exactly why we were given all of these tools!

So what I can say is 1) you are glorifying MacTusk way too much, he is not a boss or giant, and he isn't some great "player hunter" mechanic.  He is a mob on the level of tallbirds, slurtle mounds, and mermen.  He drops loot that is very specific to him - and yes this means he is there to be farmed.

6) The game is not about "everything is out to kill you."  The game is simply "don't starve."  The world is very neutral - this is why pig men are not aggro against you, and will fight spiders and tree guards even without you leading them.  This is why we can destroy and rebuild many structures like bunnymen and spider egg nests to relocate them.  The game isn't just here to attack us, but it is very specifically here for us to build in.  If the makers of the game thought any differently - then tree guards wouldn't attack Deerclopse when the giant smashes down a bunch of trees.  Trust me - the programmers could have done these things different if they wanted.  The only reason they work the way that they do is because it was meant to be.

Including that MacTusk - while a unique and interesting mob - is not a giant or boss, and is meant to be farmed.  You are also meant to find him, not the other way around - or he would find you!  Just like Deerclopse and hounds do.  Trust me - he works as intended.  There is no "bug / exploit" fix in this topic, only a suggestion / feedback of what you would like the game to be.

[Auth]

I'm not reading this thread besides the OP, something tells me there's going to be lots of fires on here

But on the topic of smallbirds

KLEI PLS FIX THE BUG WHERE TALLBIRDS KILL THEIR YOUNG AND TEENBIRDS KILL THEIR PARENTS

Literally, it's not hard.

At all.

For some gosh doodle dang reason, you clowns literally made it so they target each other.

They're killing each other because you injected them with the code to do so.

I've heard the excuse from one of you devs that it "Cuts down on tallbird overpopulation"

Excuse me, but if you're so scared they're going to populate, then just make them not. It's better than having to go to the meteor fields to only have my heart broken by watching a family of these magnificent creatures in an all out brawl to kill each other.

You guys mention devs more than me, who do I mention to make sure this gets pushed in the face of every dev and duct taped to their fridge?

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

5 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

2 - everything in this game is to be farmed.  Spiders, bunnys, pigs, ore, lumber, deerclopse, and MacTusk are ALL meant to be farmed.  If they weren't, they wouldn't give us loot!  Certainly these things are supposed to be challenging at first, but they all fall to a different degree of challenge.  At first spiders are a challenge, but once you learn how to deal with them they become a non-issue and you farm them for their resources.  Same with hound attacks - those attacks are (ironically) the biggest method of building fields of tooth traps to deal with hound attacks haha.  Deerclopse can be walked into hundreds of trees to provide easy logging AND spawn the tree guards that will aggro him and fight him for you...

Again - In this type of game the world is given to us to exploit.  This isn't a fighting game simulator, it is a survival game that shows you early on that you are not always supposed to fight things directly.

The only thing I can say is an abuse of AI is that if you chase him, he will eventually completely ignore you and walk back even if he is being attacked.  THAT I could consider a bug / exploit and I could imagine that being fixed.  The idea that putting down tooth traps, summoning tentacles, building pig houses, ect are "bug / exploit" level offenses is just ridiculous.  This is exactly why we were given all of these tools!

So what I can say is 1) you are glorifying MacTusk way too much, he is not a boss or giant, and he isn't some great "player hunter" mechanic.  He is a mob on the level of tallbirds, slurtle mounds, and mermen.  He drops loot that is very specific to him - and yes this means he is there to be farmed.

6) The game is not about "everything is out to kill you."  The game is simply "don't starve."  The world is very neutral - this is why pig men are not aggro against you, and will fight spiders and tree guards even without you leading them.  This is why we can destroy and rebuild many structures like bunnymen and spider egg nests to relocate them.  The game isn't just here to attack us, but it is very specifically here for us to build in.  If the makers of the game thought any differently - then tree guards wouldn't attack Deerclopse when the giant smashes down a bunch of trees.  Trust me - the programmers could have done these things different if they wanted.  The only reason they work the way that they do is because it was meant to be.

Including that MacTusk - while a unique type of mob - is not a giant or boss, and is meant to be farmed.  You are also meant to find him, not the other way around - or he would find you!  Just like Deerclopse and hounds do.  Trust me - he works as intended.  There is no "bug / exploit" fix in this topic, only a suggestion / feedback of what you would like the game to be.

I completely disagree and it seems you've disregarded some things that I realized thanks to Lumina; I'm no longer for him going after the player, because I can agree that it can become annoying and it de-incentivises getting out of the camp, but I am still for him respawning in a different semi-random location after each time he dies. Why?

* It incentivises exploration/getting out of the base and running around the world

* Gives more challenge for items that are very very good (tier 2 wiinter gear combined with generally the best sanity restoration item in the game, a cane that allows you to move faster for as long as you hold onto it).

* Has AI for more combat capabilities, yet currently this becomes nullified (similarly to Dragonfly's enragement) because there is no incentive to fight it without using a bizarro farming method like tooth traps or tentacles.

I don't see it as a boss, but it is special and because it is so special, with boss-level drops, it should be some-what of a challenge to do it. And doing so is such a simply change combined with a fix, that I'm wondering why wouldn't you want this change?

By your logic, the Bee Queen being simply killed via tentacles every time is a liable method as well and something that shouldn't be changed?

6) Where do you think the term "everything is out to kill you" comes from, eh? The developers. I don't think Klei accounted for McTusk being farmed the way it is now and since their focus is away from it, they wouldn't have changed anything for it. Compass became an item of focus and once it was, changes were applied. The game could do with a lot of good changes to make it more difficult and it being a constant struggle, whilst at the same time letting you progress. Why do people want to farm everything, why do you want to conquer the world? It makes things extremely easy, so why would you want that?