[Theory] There is a Nightmare Fuel "source" contained within the Atrium of the Ruins.

[Sudura2017]

My reason for thinking this is, there will be three forms of the little (big) dude:

Overworld - Weak. Loses limbs and fixes them. Does not fight.

Caves - Medium. Fights relatively well

Atrium (soon) - Hard. Said to be stronger than Caves one and should use more of it's animations.

 

This shows, the closer to the Atrium, the stronger he is.

 

This would also mean the Atrium is the center of all Nightmare Fuel, which seems to be what truly sustains him.

 

How does this apply to Charlie?

 

Charlie on the Overworld (and Caves + Ruins!) usually is just... a spirit. Shadow. Attacking in the darkness, can't be seen.

However, in A New Reign she gains a physical Shadow Form. How does this work? Well, potentially she's even closer to the true source of the Nightmare Fuel than even the Caves.

Perhaps her Throne Room is on the other side of the Atrium Gate, theoretically the true source of Nightmare Fuel.

This Nightmare Fuel would sustain her Shadow Form, and allow her to take the throne (as she did) - What we don't know yet is how she became more... human(?) from being on the throne.

 

Perhaps one way we could end this is to simply kill the true source of all that Nightmare Fuel.

 

Who knows.

 

Just a theory;)

 

[minespatch]

I don't think this is truly Charlie's doing, she's just catalyst and host for THEM to channel their "playfulness" through.

[Sudura2017]

4 minutes ago, minespatch said:

I don't think this is truly Charlie's doing, she's just catalyst and host for THEM to channel their "playfulness" through.

Yeah, it's not Charlie's doing, it's whatever is behind the throne. We have to go deeper!... quite literally.

[Mr.Tarunio]

This is one big act, and it won't stop till the fat lady sings (cough, wigfrig).

[Rellimarual]

I have a few questions about the notion that DST can have an "ending." Would it be like adventure mode in single player, where completing the challenge unlocks a character (Maxwell, or in this case maybe Charlie)? Or is it going to merely be a way to regenerate the ruins? 

If the former, then how would that integrate with the current DST character selection, in which every character is unlocked for even the first time player? Is there a way to make the use of certain characters exclusive to players who have completed an in-game challenge? And if the heart of the ruins boss is defeated by a team of players, would every player then have unlocked the new character, or would it be done with some kind of loot, like a deerclops eye, that only one person can obtain? If you do unlock that character, does the access stick with the player, becoming available on every new game that player joins? Or is the access restricted to the current game?

On the other hand, if the heart of the ruins challenge provides nothing more than an "ending" to the story AND a way of regenerating the Ancient Guardian, will players need to reenact the ending over and over again to get more Guardians? The truth is, DST is not really a linear game like Adventure Mode in single player, so maybe it doesn't make sense that the last part of the update will provide an ending. It's hard to see how that could be integrated into gameplay, or at least I'm having a hard time imagining it.

[HamBatter]

27 minutes ago, jantonio said:

This is one big act, and it won't stop till the fat lady sings (cough, wigfrig).

I keep feeding her but she's not getting fat.

[CaptainChaotica]

The "source" thing?  AHA!  That's been _my_ theory all along.  Like, ever since I first even heard about the nightmare fissures in the ruins, let alone went there.  With details such as:

--On the surface, the shadow monsters are weak and can only take physical form from within a sufficiently weakened mind. Then, they kill the host and go free. They're real, but in kind of another dimension until you go crazy enough.

--In the ruins, however, they are stronger because closer to the source, which is why _sanity has nothing to do with whether or not they appear down there_.  They're just flat OUT real, period, at the ruins.

--Evil flowers grow at spots directly above where the nightmare fissures are!  (Theory, remember.  But a cute one.)  Also the full moon does something to weaken the barriers between the Don't Starve world and the Dungeon Dimensions shadow one.

My previous fantasy training in things like Discworld (referencing Lovecraft) and, weirdly enough, early Xanth, made this idea pop into my head right away.  If there's nightmare fuel issuing through those fissure..._where is it coming FROM_?  An actual sentient being?  The evil version of the Lifestream?  Or something else...?

However, whether or not we should actually find and especially fight and BEAT this thing, and end the game...uh-uh.  Nope.  Not happening. The thing I have in mind is so powerful that basically the equivalent of its natural _body-heat emanations_ from just sitting around, sleeping even, are enough to power ALL THE NIGHTMARE STUFF IN THE ENTIRE LAND.  Directly or indirectly.  We ain't beating that.  Charlie didn't make it, neither did Maxwell; they just make use of its effects in their own ways. 

The only way you're making this theorised being leave is if you wake it up and it remembers it lost a bet or somesuch, and "runs off" interdimensionally to get its wallet. And then everything magical-powered/natured/mutated in the land goes splat one way or another.  WHOOPsie!

Hints about:  Yes.  Awesome!  Actually see:  No, there's no way it'd be impressive enough on a little screen.  Fight and destroy? HELL no!

...Notorious

[Quoth143]

Maybe the throne itself acts like a root to the source, kind of like a tree root. If that's the case, there could be other "roots." 

So what would happen if Charlie ever abdicated the throne (that is if she could)?

[Destros09]

Shouldn't this be in art music and lore @ImDaMisterL?

[ImDaMisterL]

9 minutes ago, Destros09 said:

Shouldn't this be in art music and lore @ImDaMisterL?

I don't know, this is pretty recent DST lore, I'll leave this for discussion unless the OP wants it to be moved, it'd fit in both places.

[minespatch]

7 hours ago, Quoth143 said:

Maybe the throne itself acts like a root to the source, kind of like a tree root. If that's the case, there could be other "roots."

What if the Nightmare Throne is THEM?

What if we've seen them this entire time and we haven't noticed?

[CaptainChaotica]

Ooh, cool idea...although I kinda always felt the throne was like, made out of the same _stuff_ as Them but not actually, like, a person? 

The throne being ONE of the connections to the original Source is kind of awesome, too.

As for Charlie...since she IS part shadow-monster/Them/whatever, I've always felt that's what gives her more flexibility and freedom than Maxwell ever had.  BUT, less humanity.  Can she leave...before her remaining original self succumbs completely to the shadow side?

(dramatic organ chord)

But, seriously.  More freedom...with a price.  CAN she abdicate, or is it set up to where there must always, _always_ be someone on the throne?  If she tries, without a suitable replacement on-hand, will it just not...work and then she discovers she's just as trapped as Maxwell was but in a different way? 

I love all this stuff. 

...Notorious

[Footman Crouch]

Guys, guys, what if the ancient is Them? its stated on the mural that the ancient transform itself during the usage of fuels. You can see the similarity between the nightmare creatures AND the ancient statues. I guess that also why breaking the statues during the awakening phase spawn a shadow creature?

[Zeklo]

1 hour ago, DarithD said:

Guys, guys, what if the ancient is Them? its stated on the mural that the ancient transform itself during the usage of fuels. You can see the similarity between the nightmare creatures AND the ancient statues. I guess that also why breaking the statues during the awakening phase spawn a shadow creature?

Yeah this, Imma summarize what I've said across multiple threads:

We know from varies quotes that the ancients were not human. Webber refers to them as "bug people", Wickerbottom as "non-mammalian", Willow as "gross looking people", and Woodie as "strange creatures". The second panel of the history is missing. Quotes go on to describe a substance as "black", "goop", "darkness", "ink", "muck", and "oil". That fits nightmare fuel to a tee. Then "bug people escaping their bug outsides", "molt from their exoskeletons", "losing their skin", "shedding their skins", but most interesting is Wolfgang's: "Monsters is bursting out of them!"

Moving on to the new Atrium statues:

Spoiler

Willow's quote is: "Eerily lifelike." and Wendy's is: "A tortured soul."

Wendy has a knack for everything regarding death, and refers to this in a manner that suggests that this is no statue. The most important piece to this is the destroyed versions of the statue found in the game file revealing it's thulecite core. This was my main theory stating that these are not simply statues depicting the ancients, but the bodies of the ancient's themselves that they left behind upon becoming shadows. You can also pick at the similarities between statue and creature and find a number of similarities, including this statues frightening gaping maw, but I don't want to get too much into that.

Both the new statue and the old statue share a strange brown melting looking goop. I have no comment on this.

I made a statement about Maxwell's quotes: "I know why you led me back here." "But it won't work."
My interpretation was that Charlie is leading Maxwell here, but some people brought up the point that it could just as likely be the shadows themselves bringing him here. Well, during a stream it was confirmed that it is Charlie that is leading players here. "But why?"

What I've been thinking about is Charlie and their shadow counterpart. If the ancients underwent something that resulted in them becoming shadows did Charlie undergo something similar?

I find Wendy's quote for the gateway interesting, as it is far less generic compared to the others: "A beacon of hope left unlit... How fitting." Turning on the gateway locks the ruins cycle in a constant state of "on". It seems as if this gateway is drawing power from an unknown source and is the link to these unearthly energies, but why refer to it as "hope"? These ancients underwent a grisly fate, so perhaps more crude means would count as hope to them.

Then we move onto the Stalker. Our good o' mr. skeltal. They seem to be a key part of this update. The closer they are to the atrium the stronger their mind is. On the surface they are weak-minded and only survive in the dark. They are docile, and unable to attack. Occasionally showing fits by grabbing their head in what looks like a painful fashion. In the caves they are far more "together" (heh Don't Starve Together...) and show some speech capability. While I cannot personally locate it, it has been said that one of their death messages in translates to "CHARLIE".

We know that their final form will be fought in the atrium of the ruins with the gateway turned on. Presumably here they will be complete minded, or at the very least greatly more so than the other two locations. So that brings up my final questions: What is their connection to the ruins and its people, and what is their connection to Charlie? Are they a key player in regards to nightmare fuel or simply another pawn?

[DatShadowJK]

On 07/03/2017 at 10:06 AM, Sudura2017 said:

Overworld - Weak. Loses limbs and fixes them. Does not fight.

Caves - Medium. Fights relatively well

Atrium (soon) - Hard. Said to be stronger than Caves one and should use more of it's animations.

This shows, the closer to the Atrium, the stronger he is.

This would also mean the Atrium is the center of all Nightmare Fuel, which seems to be what truly sustains him.

I agree! Maybe, in future updates if building him on the Surface, he would attempt to find the nearest sinkhole, and (if it's blocked) will break it, and going into the caves he would try find the Atrium biome, but will still try to fight you, and if lowered to lots of health, he will Ignore you and complete going to the Atrium, and when he is in the Atrium place, well.. Chaos happens..