The Marble Nerf. Am i the only one who hates grinding for something nice ?

[TheKingDedede]

When Marble Shrubs came out, I thought that they grew a bit fast for my tastes, but I liked the way they looked and Marble was finally a common occurrence now. I didn't have to go waiting in the caves, hoping that when an earthquake happened, that piece of Marble I just saw didn't shatter when it hit the ground. We could finally have Checkered Flooring without too much hassle. The ability to make statues with Marble that was now more commonplace was also nice.

But now, this nerf happened. Why nerf the Shrubs? This game feels like it wants to make me wait and grind for really small, inconsequential stuff. You want some Wooden Flooring? 4 logs per board. You want the privilege, nay, the honor of putting your items in a wooden chest? Chop down 3 trees and remember to get the stumps. These games (DS and DST), which I love, shouldn't have so much grinding in it. Halve the amount of logs it takes to make boards. Stop making the grind for items feel so important. Buff these shrubs in terms of how much Marble Seeds you get from a single piece of Marble. Anything would would be better than holding the spacebar and waiting for the '"honor" of making a wooden box and some decent flooring.

[Arlesienne]

19 minutes ago, TheKingDedede said:

When Marble Shrubs came out, I thought that they grew a bit fast for my tastes, but I liked the way they looked and Marble was finally a common occurrence now. I didn't have to go waiting in the caves, hoping that when an earthquake happened, that piece of Marble I just saw didn't shatter when it hit the ground. We could finally have Checkered Flooring without too much hassle. The ability to make statues with Marble that was now more commonplace was also nice.

But now, this nerf happened. Why nerf the Shrubs? This game feels like it wants to make me wait and grind for really small, inconsequential stuff. You want some Wooden Flooring? 4 logs per board. You want the privilege, nay, the honor of putting your items in a wooden chest? Chop down 3 trees and remember to get the stumps. These games (DS and DST), which I love, shouldn't have so much grinding in it. Halve the amount of logs it takes to make boards. Stop making the grind for items feel so important. Buff these shrubs in terms of how much Marble Seeds you get from a single piece of Marble. Anything would would be better than holding the spacebar and waiting for the '"honor" of making a wooden box and some decent flooring.

If I admit I usually scatter my stuff on the ground unless somebody may eat it, will you hate me? Because what you describe is exactly what causes this... It's not even justified by how many boards you would need for a trunk shaped like this. After all signs only need one board in spite of being a piece of timber of a stick (where's the stick?). And they take up lots of space.

I'd rather get many resources for a giant storeroom half-buried to slow food spoilage than get so many - fairly style-inconsistent - iceboxes. The dragonfly chests do not really appeal to me much, though it's a personal preference. Why shouldn't we get some big chest from a huge hollowed-out tree trunk? Or a cassket of thulecite and/or marble?

[Lumina]

About the marble nerf, problem before was :

- The tree were growing too fast (and i think that it was a problem for decoration too, if you can't enjoy final stage a little)

- They were giving too much marble

- One marble was giving too much seeds (2)

 

My opinion is : First change was needed by everyone, suit users and decoration users. Growing too fast is pretty annoying and too powerful.

Third change was needed too, for me, because one marble = multiple seeds have more risk to become out of control. Marble could be found in cave, for example, so not all marble is limited by current marble tree. If each marble give 2 seeds you could multiply more and more.

 

So my opinion is : better change is about the second point : they were giving too much marble. But with the point 1 and 3 fixed, you could have the marble tree giving a little more marble (or marble shrub) without being op, if the number are done well. Like something like : 2 marble, one random between marble and bean.

 

Why changing the drop instead of the number of bean ? Because you could control more the number of marble this way that with a 1 marble=2 seeds, so you can ajust it a lot more. You could imagine a 3 marble, 1/10 of a free bean, for example.

So it's a lot easier to find the right balance, it will still require a little time and effort, but will be more rewarding, and if in the future, marble is more useful, you could adapt it better than the bean recipe.

 

Also, just one word about marble suit. People weren't using it, yes. Part of this is the slowing effect, because kitting is a lot more efficient than tanking, usually. But there are exceptions. Other reason was : marble wasn't really renewable (especially without cave) and i know that some people doesn't like making items with non renewable resource. So you can't tell that the marble suit will not be used if marble become more abundant, especially if some ennemies make kitting less usefull.

 

 

[Sinister_Fang]

I don't see what the big deal is. The slower growth rate doesn't bother me much. Marble wasn't even used all that much anyway. Klei made marble a more reliably renewable resource and now people are complaining that it grows too slow or too fast. Would you guys rather not have marble shrubs and go back to sitting in the caves all day waiting for that one lucky chunk of marble to fall from the ceiling? Because I wouldn't.

[AnonymousKoala]

I think it should revert to release version, or at least not be as slow as it is currently/drop more marble. 

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

 

7 hours ago, Glhrmzz said:

1 Marble used to give you 2 Seeds instead of just 1 now. Witch meant less grinding for more trees/marble

I never noticed that they did that. Was this mentioned in any hotfix? I don't remember them mentioning that. Honestly, if they kept the 2 beans you get from a single craft and just added a royal jelly to the recipe, it could make the whole thing less OP. It always has been a grind to get a lot of it, just that now it's twice the grind if what you're saying is true.

If you're talking in terms of aesthetics, the shrubs might not be good for it, because they go from stage to stage and in particular the "dead" stage might not be very great-looking. Perhaps if they made them not change stages after they get to tier 3, it could make a bit of a better difference for that. It would stop the whole problem of them changing into "dead" stage while you're mining a tier 3 one, which is hella annoying.

13 minutes ago, AnonymousKoala said:

I think it should revert to release version, or at least not be as slow as it is currently/drop more marble. 

So, how about the recipe requiring 1 royal jelly with 1 marble, you get 2 beans, they grow up until tier 3, then stop growing and at fullest you can get 6 marble? This would mean 2 - 3 of them mined would give you a marble suit, so they would be rarer unless you kill more bee queens and would also give another use for the royal jelly other than the jelly beans.

[Lumina]

I don't understand the link between royal jelly and marble. I am missing a word game, reference or something ?

Also, it will make marble more rare than now and i think that the topic is about making it a little more common or less grindy. Killing a boss for each tree you want to grow doesn't seems less grindy for me.

[Mday]

My suggestion is

1) Craft marble from marble bean.

2) Plant marble bean to grow marble shrubs, mine the marble shrubs for more marble bean.

3) Make Marble shrubs (hence marble beans) available via the world gen. May be a few marble shrubs at each marble tree/pillar and etc related set piece.

This way you always get more bean to plant, and you can easily balance the production rate of marble by changing the bean to marble crafting ratio.

[ShadowDuelist]

Sorry I think im late to the party, but can someone tell me whats the current growth rate of the marble shrub from bean to the maximum level of growth where you get the maxed amount of  marble? Also, what amount of marble does it give (maxed)?

Thanks,

[Tykvesh]

7 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Sorry I think im late to the party, but can someone tell me whats the current growth rate of the marble shrub from bean to the maximum level of growth where you get the maxed amount of  marble? Also, what amount of marble does it give (maxed)?

27-30 days, 1-2 marble

[ShadowDuelist]

31 minutes ago, Tykvesh said:

27-30 days, 1-2 marble

That's not too bad, it doubles your marble, like @Sinister_Fang said, think that before that we had to rely on earthquakes after all naturally spawning statues were mined. And trust me, it was incredibly tedious and unreliable (I did it, and used to get 1 piece of marble every 4 or 5 earthquakes, so living in a cave got me about 10 marble pieces in 90 days).
Now it's a plant and forget thing, you collect profits in the long run and force it to be a long gameplay thing, like beefalo taming.

It will also keep marble armor as a not so common thing, like it always was. I really hope they don't nerf the armor, like it was previously mentioned making you very slow and "hard to obtain" contruction materials traits are more than enough to counter its high defense and HP, keeping it as a very situational item better suited when you (or someone in the team) needs to tank something, while your other teammates use something lighter.

It also limits the shadow figures spawning as a trivial fight you do every new moon: Instead of a chore it becomes a true event. [This is not a pro sorry. Thanks @Michi01 for pointing it out]

[Michi01]

10 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

It also limits the shadow figures spawning as a trivial fight you do every new moon: Instead of a chore it becomes a true event.

Wait what do you mean with that? Trying to take on more than one of every one of them is a bit ridiculous anyway and you get back the marble when they break out and you can also use cut stone to make statues.

[ShadowDuelist]

1 minute ago, Michi01 said:

Wait what do you mean with that? Trying to take on more than one of every one of them is a bit ridiculous anyway and you get back the marble when they break out and you can also use cut stone to make statues.

Oops thought you could only make them with marble, skip that one then

[EuedeAdodooedoe]

2 hours ago, Lumina said:

I don't understand the link between royal jelly and marble. I am missing a word game, reference or something ?

Also, it will make marble more rare than now and i think that the topic is about making it a little more common or less grindy. Killing a boss for each tree you want to grow doesn't seems less grindy for me.

There's no real link, just that it seems to fit better aesthetically imho. Marble is grindy, but very common. My suggestion was trying to make it less common but also less grindy, so you would get more marble per one which you mine, but every 2 marble shrub beans would take a royal jelly to craft, meaning that not too many of them would be present at the same time, at least at first (12 - 14 marble shrubs growing at the same time max, if you're not cooking any jelly beans as Bee Queen drops 6 - 7 royal jelly). I guess for re-plantation, the marble shrubs would also need to drop the beans themselves, at least 1 per.

[pesron33]

i think this game should focus more on survival and not on how to decorate my base with statues and other things like that.. or its alice in wonderland ?

[isthisworkingnow]

4 minutes ago, pesron33 said:

i think this game should focus more on survival and not on how to decorate my base with statues and other things like that..

 The game mainly focuses on survival and marble can be used for that.

However for many people (myself included) enjoy making a good looking base so by making a resource that 2/3 times is used for decoration take longer to get but no more difficult it is no longer fun. 

[Sinister_Fang]

10 minutes ago, pesron33 said:

i think this game should focus more on survival and not on how to decorate my base with statues and other things like that.. or its alice in wonderland ?

For some people it's not enough to just survive, we have to thrive too. For those who already have the survival thing down it's nice to be able to decorate a bit and make the place look nice. All these new decorations aren't hurting anyone and doesn't take away from the survival aspect of the game.

[pesron33]

yea i guess i cant blame the decorations for having the feeling its too easy to survive once you learn how to..:)

[KoreanWaffles]

10 hours ago, Hobgoblino said:

So my suggestion is to add something else to the recipe of the marble bean, like seeds, pinecones, nightmare fuel, living logs, anything which will make the player do something other than to mine and plant mindlessly, but make the recipe give more beans for less marble.

Did someone say...

Marble Seed Blueprint?

[GLERMZ]

11 hours ago, pesron33 said:

i think this game should focus more on survival and not on how to decorate my base with statues and other things like that.. or its alice in wonderland ?

Thats why Klei didn't release any sort of Cosmetic Content in New Reign. Not at all. Clearly Survival is the ONLY focus of the game and what just everyone who plays more 100 hours do. Is because of the survival

Also like i said many times, this nerf made a huge impact on survival. I feel so much more threatened in the world now

Best Regards.

[pesron33]

i dont get it how you feel more threatened in the world with this marble if im playing most of the time local server with friends not pvp against each other. I think many of you look at this game as online just skipping some aspects of gameplay which doesnt apply in a local "survive with your friend" aka mode. So, take away the players threath (pvp) and look what more marble actually means.. well what it means? i have marble armor whenever i want, much more/easier than before. I can wear wooden armor and if a bigger battle i just switch on spot to marble (in case someone says it has speed penaltly).. anyway kinda boring to get spoon feed by the game, enjoy

[AnonymousKoala]

2 hours ago, pesron33 said:

i dont get it how you feel more threatened in the world with this marble if im playing most of the time local server with friends not pvp against each other. I think many of you look at this game as online just skipping some aspects of gameplay which doesnt apply in a local "survive with your friend" aka mode. So, take away the players threath (pvp) and look what more marble actually means.. well what it means? i have marble armor whenever i want, much more/easier than before. I can wear wooden armor and if a bigger battle i just switch on spot to marble (in case someone says it has speed penaltly).. anyway kinda boring to get spoon feed by the game, enjoy

So don't use it. Also it's not spoonfeeding. Marble Suit is viable now, and the trees are now pretty bad, but they didn't buff any of these, it's just better now. Besides, all difficulty goes away at the point players such as Glhrmzz are. So naturally, since you don't want your fanbase to leave so quickly in, you give them more sand for their sandbox. Decorations, tougher bosses, etc. 

Marble Suits are also only an option, so even now the game doesn't spoonfeed you. Just don't craft it.

[Lumina]

"If you don't like grind, don't grind marble. Don't use it for decoration."

 

Wait... Oh, maybe you like having purpose in the game ? Maybe you like decorating your base ? Maybe you don't want a "don't use it" answer ? Maybe all this topic is about something you would like to do and feel that you can't ?

So why people that want to use marble armor but don't want it to be to easy to obtain should be wrong ? Should "not use it" ? Should be less important than your desire for decoration ?

Because decoration isn't related to survival ? It doesn't mean that it should be more important or an higher priority in any way. Decoration isn't a better purpose that should be allowed to the detriment of normal game balance. People wanting more decoration should care about how it affect people playing the game with survival in mind. Not just saying "don't use it".

 

[Mday]

From my point of view, I don't use marble suit as much. Most of the time I take either a logsuit or a helmet for that is really all I need. Why waste a inventory slot and all the trouble of switching armor, when I can just kite everything? This is why I dont see marble suit being easier to produce a issue at all. To me, it is not something that is too good and definitely not a no-brainer solution to everything.

The only time I will use the marble suit is when I need to actually tank something. Usually happens when I am fighting the DF, or when I am playing on server with 250 ping.

 

[AnonymousKoala]

50 minutes ago, Lumina said:

"If you don't like grind, don't grind marble. Don't use it for decoration."

 

Wait... Oh, maybe you like having purpose in the game ? Maybe you like decorating your base ? Maybe you don't want a "don't use it" answer ? Maybe all this topic is about something you would like to do and feel that you can't ?

So why people that want to use marble armor but don't want it to be to easy to obtain should be wrong ? Should "not use it" ? Should be less important than your desire for decoration ?

Because decoration isn't related to survival ? It doesn't mean that it should be more important or an higher priority in any way. Decoration isn't a better purpose that should be allowed to the detriment of normal game balance. People wanting more decoration should care about how it affect people playing the game with survival in mind. Not just saying "don't use it".

 

He says he can now make it whenever he wants. If he feels it makes it too easy, then I suggested he won't use it as much(well I said at all, but shhhhhhhhhh). Also I doubt this is detrimental to the game balance.