The Marble Nerf. Am i the only one who hates grinding for something nice ?

[GLERMZ]

Hello my starver friends,

First of, this is just my opinion,

Yes I'm very, very salty with the Marble Nerf, specially because it was something that several people asked, so my question is why did you ask for it ? Do you love grinding in DST so much ? Is that what makes you keep playing the game ? I do agree that the trees were growing too fast, i couldn't even appreciate their AMAZING design in all the 3 stages that i can now, but too say 1 marble for 2 seeds was too much?

"Oh Glhrmzz look, marble suits are too OP, you will faceroll everything, blah blah" Does this change anything ? You have enough Marble to start a world to do 10 marble suits and transform the rest in trees that will enable you to keep having marble suits.
Also if you saying it's too OP aren't you already a master in DS that can do everything without it ? Why bother with it than? If you don't like it, if you think it makes the game easier, simply don't use it.  I'm sure you will not get bullied for not using it when playing with your friends.

What did this nerf accomplished ? For you to have nice park now with lot's of marble trees, several statues to make your sets look awesome you now have to do the usual grinding of "mining to plant to mine to plant to mine to plant" so after few years you can finally have so many marble that you can decorate a zone with 100+ trees/Marblefloor/statues.

Ps. If you really think the game is too easy, just challenge your self, Toadstood and Bee Queen Solo Fight if you want to be the King of Don't Starve you deserve to be and even other challenges that you have out there. Because in my opinion, and it's just one, it's too marble who going to make you feel like a Macho.

Edit: pss2. If your main problem is Marble Armor, why don't you ask for a buff in the costing of it instead of nerfing everything else?

Best Regards,

Glhrmzz




 

[Jettpak]

I agree, the nerf really made something that was very fun and esthetically beautiful into something thats almost not worth the grind and will eventually perhaps not be used at all. I don't use marble suit at all, and i dont know alot of people who do. So at most the marble is used for aesthetics such as the trees and perhaps the floors. Not to make a whole bunch of marble suits. And if one wanted to please the people who said marble was to OP because of marble suits, make them cost more to effect the correct people. Not us who dont use the marble suit.

[JohnWatson]

What's the marble nerf? Is it a recent change?

Anyway, Marble Suit slowing you down really makes it really unappealing for me since it makes kiting harder. Why bother taking less damage with the Marble Suit if you could take no damage by kiting?

[GLERMZ]

1 minute ago, JohnWatson said:

What's the marble nerf? Is it a recent change?

Anyway, Marble Suit slowing you down really makes it really unappealing for me since it makes kiting harder. Why bother taking less damage with the Marble Suit if you could take no damage by kiting?

1 Marble used to give you 2 Seeds instead of just 1 now. Witch meant less grinding for more trees/marble

[bubben16]

Getting only one bean is annoying, yes. Honestly, I feel like they should have just done the grow nerf, and not the nerf to the beans. For now, slowly gotta gain that forest.

[GLERMZ]

1 minute ago, bubben16 said:

Getting only one bean is annoying, yes. Honestly, I feel like they should have just done the grow nerf, and not the nerf to the beans. For now, slowly gotta gain that forest.

The problem is, the focus of people was in the how many trees and beans per Marble thats why we probably had such nerf. Therefore on all my questions above.

I don agree with you ofc, the grow nerf would be enough, and even in a cosmetic point of view is better than it was before.

[mathem99]

I never found the fact that 1 marble = 2 marble beans 'OP'. I don't know why people requested a nerf, but sure the fact that the bushes grow slowler now is okay.

[isthisworkingnow]

I only ever used them as decoration and now that is not even worth the grind. 

[ClumsyPenny]

I think marble suits are great for raid bosses where you have to tank them or kiting them is too much effort and it's better to kill them as fast as possible anyway, but for normal monsters marble suits are quite bad, it's not hard to kite most enemies and the movement speed penalty doesn't help with that.

I also think marble shrubs deserved a nerf in some way but not because they grew too fast, but because you only need marble to grow them. There is no other cost other than to mine them, after that you just "plant" the marble and no matter how slow they grow, you'll eventually have free marble. For evergreens/birchnuts trees you need pinecones/birchnuts, which you can't "craft" from wood. For grass/berries/saplings you need to fertilize them (not the saplings obviously) and you can't "craft" the plants from grass/berries/twigs. For farms you can't just plant a seed on the ground, you need a certain structure and after you get the fruit you need a bird cage to start growing ONLY that fruit. So my suggestion is to add something else to the recipe of the marble bean, like seeds, pinecones, nightmare fuel, living logs, anything which will make the player do something other than to mine and plant mindlessly, but make the recipe give more beans for less marble.

[Lumina]

2 hours ago, Glhrmzz said:

if you think it makes the game easier, simply don't use it.  I'm sure you will not get bullied for not using it when playing with your friends.

 

2 hours ago, Glhrmzz said:

Ps. If you really think the game is too easy, just challenge your self

Why always asking for people wanting a better balance to challenge themselve and don't enjoy part of the game or anything ?
Why, if you don't like base balance of the game, aren't you using mod ?

Game must have a balance that will be ok for as many players as possible, meaning that you shouldn't require too much a "don't play with it", because it's annoying to just ignore part of the content because of unbalance. And because you want something for decoration doesn't mean that it should be too easy to obtain when it have others purposes.

 

Let me be clear : i don't have a problem with a request about marble balance. Maybe the tuning could be better or/and maybe you could find some way to make the things a little smoother (like, for example, a full grown marble tree could rarely drop a marble seed, so time to time you have one free seed).

 

My problem is that people finding the game easy or finding that something isn't balanced shouldn't have "shut up" message like "change your playstyle, just don't play with that, do things just for challenge, not for fun".

 

Because they have the same right to play and enjoy the game, and if they have to adapt sometime, you have to adapt too. Either, you accept that ton of marble is a little grindy and an end-game purpose, or you mod your game to have something fitting your taste better.

 

Or you could ask for a change, but don't silence people that ask for a better balance.

[GLERMZ]

1 minute ago, Lumina said:

 

Why always asking for people wanting a better balance to challenge themselve and don't enjoy part of the game or anything ?
Why, if you don't like base balance of the game, aren't you using mod ?

Game must have a balance that will be ok for as many players as possible, meaning that you shouldn't require too much a "don't play with it", because it's annoying to just ignore part of the content because of unbalance. And because you want something for decoration doesn't mean that it should be too easy to obtain when it have others purposes.

 

Let me be clear : i don't have a problem with a request about marble balance. Maybe the tuning could be better or/and maybe you could find some way to make the things a little smoother (like, for example, a full grown marble tree could rarely drop a marble seed, so time to time you have one free seed).

 

My problem is that people finding the game easy or finding that something isn't balanced shouldn't have "shut up" message like "change your playstyle, just don't play with that, do things just for challenge, not for fun".

 

Because they have the same right to play and enjoy the game, and if they have to adapt sometime, you have to adapt too. Either, you accept that ton of marble is a little grindy and an end-game purpose, or you mod your game to have something fitting your taste better.

 

Or you could ask for a change, but don't silence people that ask for a better balance.

Where did i silenced them ? I merely asking the question for justification. Also your idea of better balance is different from mine, that's why i stated its "My Opinion".
Also my question is simple how is that a better balance ? And the way it was before the nerf was actually fine for both sides, because one could enjoy for decoration and the other not liking it can simply "not use it". You are given the OPTION INGAME. In the current state you aren't unless you make a mod just to make it easier for it. Is that the way we should really go for ?

And still my answer remains, how in the world is too much marble that game changing ? Don't you have already enough ways to faceroll everything once you know how to do things ? Don't you already made everything without it previously ?

To Sum it up my point is, making Marble Grinding is not making the game difficult. Also like i said, this changed nothing regarding the Marble Armor. Is still easy to craft, even early game, it was always was, not since people had to many they just thought ("well we might just tank and spank with some many now"). Also it's always easier for people to ask for what they don't like than to just come here and say you know what, I LOVE THIS.
That's why this time i decided to be the counter part. And i will be. And i will continue to contest people who want the game grindier than it already is.

This is Sandbox Survival Game and clearly Klei is looking into Cosmetics and putting the hard part of the game into the Giants and other features. So i will continue to fight my case in the marble or in any other item that had some fine tune that the "Pros" thought it made the game easy.

I'm not trying to shut up anyone because that is always impossible in the internet. I'm just trying to wake up the ones who might have been afraid to speak up about cosmetics and the other part of the game in this forum

Best Regards,

Glhrmzz
 

[GLERMZ]

44 minutes ago, Hobgoblino said:

I think marble suits are great for raid bosses where you have to tank them or kiting them is too much effort and it's better to kill them as fast as possible anyway, but for normal monsters marble suits are quite bad, it's not hard to kite most enemies and the movement speed penalty doesn't help with that.

I also think marble shrubs deserved a nerf in some way but not because they grew too fast, but because you only need marble to grow them. There is no other cost other than to mine them, after that you just "plant" the marble and no matter how slow they grow, you'll eventually have free marble. For evergreens/birchnuts trees you need pinecones/birchnuts, which you can't "craft" from wood. For grass/berries/saplings you need to fertilize them (not the saplings obviously) and you can't "craft" the plants from grass/berries/twigs. For farms you can't just plant a seed on the ground, you need a certain structure and after you get the fruit you need a bird cage to start growing ONLY that fruit. So my suggestion is to add something else to the recipe of the marble bean, like seeds, pinecones, nightmare fuel, living logs, anything which will make the player do something other than to mine and plant mindlessly, but make the recipe give more beans for less marble.

I actually like the idea Hob. I wouldn't mind to have something else other than marble to make seeds. Or to have the seeds to drop. I'm just minding yet another grinding fest for something who would look really cool, that is all.

As for the Marble Suite, if in Klei vision it's being used more than they wanted, just boost the cost of it instead of nerfing the resource

[Pe Dabliu]

I think that the marble beans must be droped from the marble trees of the world, like those that are near the maxuell statue, and can't be crafted. I think that the marble tree should drop 2-3 marble, and 1-2 marble beans. Now that we have the renewable marble, klei could add more marble structures, like marble walls, or marble tools, or even add mable on old recipes, like moondial, because for me, now we have unlimited marble, but a limited amount of things to craft.

(Sorry for my English, it's not my primary language)

 

[Lumina]

1 hour ago, Glhrmzz said:

the other not liking it can simply "not use it". You are given the OPTION INGAME.

Let say that in the next update, Klei add a staff that will kill a giant in one hit. A new item that is a little difficult to obtain, but not that difficult.

 

Cool, a new item, it's something great. It means something new to do, discovering how to obtain the item, crafting it, enjoy the new thing.

And if it's not balanced ? Don't use it. Just don't play with it.

 

Oh, of course, it will never happen. Maybe there will be an item making fighting a giant easier, but not at this scale. It's just an example trying to show the problem.

Problem is : asking for people to ignore part of the game is bad design. Here it's one item. It's not something big asking for one item to be changed because you want it. But why another player couldn't say the same thing for another item, or another mecanism, or another part of the game ?

This argument is bad because it's obvious that if you ask too much "don't use it" you'll end in a game when some people can't play with a big part of the content because it will ruin their fun, but hey, just don't use it, people wanting to have easy things in the game should have it, just don't use it.

Why some people should be deprived of fun and new content just because you want it ? Don't use it is a bad answer. You could make any change with "don't use it". Giant with 20 hp. "Don't fight it". Spear killing every monster in one hit ? "Don't use it". Berries that will insta regrow ? "Don't use it".

"Don't use it" isn't an option. It's not a choice. It's the contrary, you can't do something that you would have liked if the balance were here.

 

You want to discuss the balance ? It's ok. You want to change things ? It's ok. You want less grind ? It's ok. You want more marble ? It's ok.

It's ok because you can ask. People can tell why it's fine for them or why it's not. Klei could decide to change or not. Balance is not something obvious, people can have another idea of balance, and you could defend your idea of balance.

No prob with that. As i even said, i'm not even against the idea itself. I'm against the "If you don't like it, don't use it". It's bad design, it's lazy, it's selfish, and it should not be told to people that aren't playing the game the same way that you are, because their fun matters too. Explain why you think the change should happen, they explain why things should stay the same, or even why it's still not enough, and if klei agree with someone, change will or will not happen. Just don't tell people "ignore this part of the game".

[GLERMZ]

10 minutes ago, Lumina said:

No prob with that. As i even said, i'm not even against the idea itself. I'm against the "If you don't like it, don't use it". It's bad design, it's lazy, it's selfish, and it should not be told to people that aren't playing the game the same way that you are, because their fun matters too. Explain why you think the change should happen, they explain why things should stay the same, or even why it's still not enough, and if klei agree with someone, change will or will not happen. Just don't tell people "ignore this part of the game".

I don't agree, and i can even apply to other items. And we are even discussing one item that was not used at ALL for so long, so if we going to put that into perspective they even made it relevant for some people again. So how came not using an item if you want to make the game hard is selfish ? Because in your vision I'm cheering only for my ways of play when I'm simply asking to give the chance for the player to choose to either play the game one way or the other without needing mods or different settings.

Also you stating that i'm silencing those who ask for such nerfs merely because i don't agree with their opinion and asked what were they thinking when they made such requests ? I

The bottom line people need to start to realize is this game was not meant to be a hardcore version like Dark Souls. It's a hard game for when you start and a quality building game once you played it enough. There is nothing hard in DS or DST once you know how to do it and i doubt there will ever be. Because thats how game works. So the only way to keep you having that challenge in the game is to keep releasing content.

Anyway no point in keeping discussing it,

You have a different opinion than mine, you have different interpretations than the ones i have. I think we both debated this subject far to long. So to put it simply like you did: "You want to discuss the balance ? It's ok. You want to change things ? It's ok. You want less grind ? It's ok. You want more marble ? It's ok. " I simply want 1 Marble for 2 seeds like they planned when they first added. That's all.

Have a nice day, Best Regards,

Glhrmzz

[Arlesienne]

You know, on the last world (nearing 400 days, left alone as we got too many prefabs from the caves), it wasn't me who planted the marble shrubs. It was my friend. No idea how much marble he needed, but he created a very nice avenue of these between the camp, the drying area and the lureplant farm. It was very aesthetically-pleasing.

In the caves, we suddenly got lots of the shrubs. Nobody planted them. They just popped up and took over the place. And taff, they grew fast. We had to pack our loot and go back to the surface.

I'm one of the people who have been using marble armour for most of the game. Not because it blocks 95% damage instead of 90% provided by thulecite suits (even worse the poor 70% of scalemail). Not because I dislike touching shadow armour and dark swords (just my own irrational dislike, nothing really logical). BECAUSE I LIKE THE LOOKS (and using something others do not rely on much, like logs and rope).

Yeah, the update was cute. The only issue is that these damn shrubs showed up where they were an annoyance. But we got out of the caves (literally loaded with gems, thulecite and nightmare fuel) and by the time we finished establishing the second real surface base, their growth cycle had already been changed. We didn't mind.

However, while I haven't mined them yet, if they drop less than two pieces of marble, the balance seems off. Armour is not their only use - I want to be able to sculpt enough statues to make my server lag. I intended to keep the shrubs mostly for this purpose.

And the looks. Because I'm a weak woman finding their looks plain funny.

[GLERMZ]

1 minute ago, Arlesienne said:

You know, on the last world (nearing 400 days, left alone as we got too many prefabs from the caves), it wasn't me who planted the marble shrubs. It was my friend. No idea how much marble he needed, but he created a very nice avenue of these between the camp, the drying area and the lureplant farm. It was very aesthetically-pleasing.

In the caves, we suddenly got lots of the shrubs. Nobody planted them. They just popped up and took over the place. And taff, they grew fast. We had to pack our loot and go back to the surface.

I'm one of the people who have been using marble armour for most of the game. Not because it blocks 95% damage instead of 90% provided by thulecite suits (even worse the poor 70% of scalemail). Not because I dislike touching shadow armour and dark swords (just my own irrational dislike, nothing really logical). BECAUSE I LIKE THE LOOKS (and using something others do not rely on much, like logs and rope).

Yeah, the update was cute. The only issue is that these damn shrubs showed up where they were an annoyance. But we got out of the caves (literally loaded with gems, thulecite and nightmare fuel) and by the time we finished establishing the second real surface base, their growth cycle had already been changed. We didn't mind.

However, while I haven't mined them yet, if they drop less than two pieces of marble, the balance seems off. Armour is not their only use - I want to be able to sculpt enough statues to make my server lag. I intended to keep the shrubs mostly for this purpose.

And the looks. Because I'm a weak woman finding their looks plain funny.

Thank you. I mean like i said. Marble Suit was here for ages. And nobody touched it. Lots of people were playing it without even using it. Just stacking it up.
But suddenly they introduce marble trees and OMG please nerf Marble. That's what I'm against, and like i said, its not that the nerf affect having a tons of Marble Suits anyway.

And i'm literally not defending this because of me like Lumina is trying to make it sound like. Fortunately enough i have a lots of people who plays with me and are glad to help me grind to make it worth even with this nerf. I'm speaking up for people, like me, who love to Base Designing, that play alone or with one/two people, to be able to not loose days after days grinding such trees just because they made Marble Suits Common  

Best Regard's,

Glhrmzz

[mochilo]

If I just answer to the thread title, "grinding" sounds like totally correct if you want "something nice". Hmm.

The player who hates grinding for nice things, just get less nice things than players who work hard and grind for them. Sounds 100% OK in my mind.

[GLERMZ]

2 minutes ago, mochilo said:

If I just answer to the thread title, "grinding" sounds like totally correct if you want "something nice". Hmm.

The player who hates grinding for nice things, just get less nice things than players who work hard and grind for them. Sounds 100% OK in my mind.

I have a different point of view in what implies Working Hard & Grinding

[lionking102]

Hey Everyone here,

I find this a very interessting discussion. But pls, let´s search for a solution to this TOGEHTER

There are different opinions and playstyles and I really understand your point Glhrmzz. If you use marble for decoration it´s a bit annoying with the new change. But I also understand what Lumia wants to say. The "just don´t use it" is not a solution at all! The games should be balanced and that has nothing to do with balancing at all. Someone wants to build 100 statues, but a lot of players also want to use marble suit without it beeing OP. People will always use the features that are in game and of course thats how it should be. And the game shoulld be not to easy without having to ignore features that are provided. Really no offense, but please Glhrmzz understand that "don´t use it" is no solution, at least no good one, more like an annoying one for a lot of people.

But I think Glhrmzz has already put out a good solution: The problem is not marble, but the marble suit! To raise the costs for it and let us get more marble is already better than it is now. But in my opinion that´s not enough. The marble suit is to strong right now and I know a lot of people using it. Before there was an limited supply so people didn´t use it that much, but now its easily unlimited it should be nerfed, because for TANKING it´s the best armor in the game and also really cheap, especially now. Movement speed doesn´t matter if you tank and there are a lot of people tanking. And with 95% dmg absorbtion without any disadvantage for a cheap armor that´s really good! 

Of course as an experienced player DST is not that hard anymore, but in my opinion it would be a big mistake to make it too easy! It should be a challange, because that provides a lot of the fun in this game.

(Offtopic: I and hope so much that in the next updates the lategame of DST will get some more challanges beside raid bosses, because some time ago Klei always wanted to make our lifes difficult in DST and raid bosses don´t make the normal game more difficult. Late game is a bit to easy going i Think)

So in my opinion the marble armor is just way OP and it makes other armor more or less useless like the night armor. For kiting it uses to much sanity and when i kite I dont need 95% protection. For tanking the marble armor is just better in every regart.

My Suggestion: The marble Armor should just absorb 90% dmg so it´s better balanced between the other armor that are there and should be more expansive (maybe not just use marble or use more of it). Like Glhrmzz said, marble armor is a thing even without the shubs and this would balance it better. Than we can also get 2 beans again and everybody is happy   Of course it will never happen that everybody is happy ^^

Have a nice day everyone,
lionking102

[Arlesienne]

I would leave the armour's damage protection alone (the speed penalty balances it nicely a la the sanity drain of shadow armour) and see if there is an incentive to planting the shrubs (they ought to strive towards reproduction, not a phoenix-like turn of generations) besides my silly "I like their looks" argument. Because I'll be the first to point out it IS a silly argument!

(As for lionking102's point about difficulty, I agree, raid bosses are nice, yet we could use something more. I am patiently waiting for really sentient enemies with an agenda a la MacTusks who would actively bother you, but don't tell anyone I told you!)

[PanAzej]

3 hours ago, Glhrmzz said:

1 Marble used to give you 2 Seeds instead of just 1 now. Witch meant less grinding for more trees/marble

It's still good I think. You get 2 marble per shrub, yes?

For me, marble is mostly for decoration. I don't use it for armor, but I can see how it could've been considered 'overpowered'. Maybe a nerf to its durability? It still blocks 95% damage, but would get destroyed faster. And you're slow while using it, so no kiting for ya.

[GLERMZ]

3 minutes ago, lionking102 said:

Hey Everyone here,

I find this a very interessting discussion. But pls, let´s search for a solution to this TOGEHTER

There are different opinions and playstyles and I really understand your point Glhrmzz. If you use marble for decoration it´s a bit annoying with the new change. But I also understand what Lumia wants to say. The "just don´t use it" is not a solution at all! The games should be balanced and that has nothing to do with balancing at all. Someone wants to build 100 statues, but a lot of players also want to use marble suit without it beeing OP. People will always use the features that are in game and of course thats how it should be. And the game shoulld be not to easy without having to ignore features that are provided. Really no offense, but please Glhrmzz understand that "don´t use it" is no solution, at least no good one, more like an annoying one for a lot of people.

But I think Glhrmzz has already put out a good solution: The problem is not marble, but the marble suit! To raise the costs for it and let us get more marble is already better than it is now. But in my opinion that´s not enough. The marble suit is to strong right now and I know a lot of people using it. Before there was an limited supply so people didn´t use it that much, but now its easily unlimited it should be nerfed, because for TANKING it´s the best armor in the game and also really cheap, especially now. Movement speed doesn´t matter if you tank and there are a lot of people tanking. And with 95% dmg absorbtion without any disadvantage for a cheap armor that´s really good!

Hey there Lion, glad to see you around.

I would agree 100% if we were talking about an item that was just introduced. We than have to talk about a lot of items that are basicly not used by anyone for whole different reasons. So why should the Marble Suit receive any different treatment ?

Also before this patch, my community did a whole cave base, witch is easy to do in DST caves sets with all the cycles and resources. We ended up with so much marble that we could have lots of Marble Suits. Still we didnt, and there was literally no other use for it at that point, since you also had a lot of marble floor from all the sets you have in DST. Only now after this patch people realized, omg Marble Suits. Thats my problem with it. People who wanted to use Marble Suits were using it already just like @Arlesienne said above.

If because of this we going to see more people using it, specially the noobs on giants because they are still scared, i have no problem. This is a game with no Difficulty Option, wich makes you start in a Hard difficulty that than goes to Normal/easy once you put so many hours into it. End game should be Hard and not Grinding. I've killed 18 times toadstool and still no glowcap but you still haven't see me posting a post on it right ? Because even if i get salty after so many kills i still find it cool because it's a boss, because i need to with people and because its FUN TO DO. Grinding trees is not. Thats my whole point.

Best Regards, and once again, pleasure talking to you.

Glhrmzz

 

 

[Arlesienne]

7 minutes ago, PanAzej said:

It's still good I think. You get 2 marble per shrub, yes?

For me, marble is mostly for decoration. I don't use it for armor, but I can see how it could've been considered 'overpowered'. Maybe a nerf to its durability? It still blocks 95% damage, but would get destroyed faster. And you're slow while using it, so no kiting for ya.

Exactly! With Charlie paying much attention to the aesthetics, I can imagine more recipes with marble. I want to be able to craft funny statues signifying silly deaths on my team, a shrine to the hallowed Potato Cup (with a real Grecian roof), and, and, a marble lounge chaise to recline on while wearing my beloved toga! Yes, that!

[ItsPizzaTime]

Yup I feel that marble is needed in huge quantities to do things like base design, and that nerfing the grow rate would have toned down the marble income just a bit. This, as well as adding more cost to making a marble suit would have satisfied the people requesting a nerf to the mass production of marble suits but kept marble reasonably obtainable still for the amount that is needed to decorate a large base.