Ok, so let's discuss voting system..

[FTR]

So there is a lot things wrong with voting system in current form. A lot problems actually.

1. Players tend to vote "yes" to kick people, not even knowing them. I was playing with this super helpful and quiet guy, who basically built base and was working really hard. Then he decided to expand base by demolishing part of the walls (it was really tight) and building new things over there, so probably because of that someone started vote to kick him, and obviously all new players that recently joined voted yes, not even knowing reason (nobody wrote anything on chat about him, just started vote). He was, in my opinion, the most helpful player, yet he was kicked.

Another example of random kick (or unjustified kick) is when I was doing good, building base and keeping everyone alive (winter time, and not very experienced players). But then everyone decided to leave my base and go on adventure, and all died within within 3 days. I offered to res them if they come back, but guess what they did instead - vote kicked me so they could restart the world.

 

My suggestions to make voting system way better than it is now:

1. Make public nicks of players that voted and started vote, this may discourage people from voting recklessly on various things.

2. Strenght of vote of one player should not equal strenght of vote of another player. Make votes have "weight" and votes of players who played a lot on the server (like 20+ days) should have way more weight. Even better system would be evaluation of player actions, like score based on distance travelled and performed actions like number of killed hostile monster, created means etc. but this would require way more work to implement.

3. Remove "regenerate" world vote completly. In the current system, you join server, work your bum off to build decent base, survive 30+ days and then some new players join and they all decide "hey let's regenerate world" without even asking for help or even trying to survive, and you are screwed big time. Last time it happened even players that played from the beggining voted to renengerate, simply becuase they couldn't survive winter. So if you can't survive winter, will you just player autumn over and over again instead of trying to learn? Today we had amazing base, yet players voted to regenerate world anyway, I assume half of votes were from players that just joined and didn't even care about anything that was built.

Regenerate world vote shouldn't even exsist. In what circumstances would you want to regenerate the world !? That should only happen when EVERYONE die, and die for real, not commit suicide.

4. Prohibit ghosts from voting. Yep, dead players should not have right to decide on anything, especially as in current system all votes are equal.. so vote of someone who spent 30+ days working hard is as strong as vote of new player in ghost form who just joined and died to darkness.

I don't even see point of playing right now and building base, because as soon as winter arrives half of players die or get replaced by new ones, they vote to refresh world..

 

^All of that happened on official klei servers.

[FTR]

However it's not a life, it's video game, so you can shape rules as much as you want until it's nearly perfect (well, devs can *wink wink*).

[EinRobot]

Sadly no vote system will be abuse proof.  I agree at this point there are probably more unjust kicks then there are justified kicks.

[mathem99]

45 minutes ago, FTR said:

 it's video game

So, instead of complaining about the game's problems just enjoy those little sweet moments.

It's just a game :3

Have fun!

[EinRobot]

1 hour ago, mathem99 said:

So, instead of complaining about the game's problems just enjoy those little sweet moments.

It's just a game :3

Have fun!

I see no problem with constructive criticism or an open dialog about the nuts and bolts of the game. There is nothing wrong with the OP. 

[imsomony]

This is a tough topic to come up with a reasonable solution to. I know a lot of people have run into similar issues as you've experienced with unfair or unjustified voting that destroys progress, and sometimes even the passion to play the game.

 

I do like and agree with your ideas here.

 

Show who initiated the vote, so if there are friends who play together a lot and keep experiencing the same person kicking them for no reason, they can add them to their own ban list (in the event they decide to host) or do their best to stay out of servers where that person is.

 

Add a weight to player profiles based on their time spent in the world, so yeah, just like you said, newbies who join and are just going along with the majority aren't negatively impacting otherwise innocent people. Likewise a group of griefers couldn't join a server together and create an overwhelming majority in the vote.

 

While I initially agree with not allowing ghosts to vote, what happens when there are 10 dead people and one live person, and the live person refuses to regen or bring them back to life? They could go to another server and start over, which is basically the same as staying on the same server and having it regenerate... but maybe they feel really attached to this particular server. Maybe it's the one with the best ping for them all. Maybe it's one where they've met a lot of other new people and know they'll constantly be able to reunite with them. So maybe ghosts can still vote, but their vote-weight is lower than if they were still live players?

 

Regarding disabling voting entirely, just wanted to let you know there's a mod for that. It required the host set it up though, of course.

[leonseye]

...what happens if the people who were on the server the longest are ghosts?

[FTR]

49 minutes ago, imsomony said:

Add a weight to player profiles based on their time spent in the world, so yeah, just like you said, newbies who join and are just going along with the majority aren't negatively impacting otherwise innocent people. Likewise a group of griefers couldn't join a server together and create an overwhelming majority in the vote.

Yep, that just happened to me literally 5 minutes ago. We were playing on the official server, made it to the winter and were progressing wonderfully, then some 3 friends joined and were able to pass vote to kick each one of us and then regenerate the world. Then they left. Something like that should be bannable..

I almost feel like they r jumping from server to server doing that exact thing, becoming majority of players, kicking everyone, regenerating and then leaving. Brand new form of griefing..

Voting system is current form is absolutely awful, people abuse it all the time.

Quote

While I initially agree with not allowing ghosts to vote, what happens when there are 10 dead people and one live person, and the live person refuses to regen or bring them back to life? They could go to another server and start over, which is basically the same as staying on the same server and having it regenerate... but maybe they feel really attached to this particular server.

I feel like, if someone is able to keep on living while everyone else died, he should be rewarded for that, not punished in form of being forced to start all over. But it's up for discussion. Maybe he should be forced to revive players? Or maybe ghosts can only vote if dead players are majority? Either way, ghosts voting is not even the most important issue.

Maybe players under 10 days shouldn't be able to vote at all.

[KCDA]

38 minutes ago, leonseye said:

...what happens if the people who were on the server the longest are ghosts?

That's a 2 sided coin. There can be 2 good arguments to either kick or keep said person depending on their actions as a ghost. Remember a ghost can still technically play the game.

1. (Negative) Ghost just idles for days sucking sanity (not too bad honestly in my book). On a more extreme level do what a Russian Player named Virus did on the Strictly PVP servers... Haunt tracks until he gets a Warg, haunt for a ton of Red and Blue Hounds, and try to kill everyone on the server with said Hounds. I admit this would be a great PVP strategy if only he wasn't already dead. Can't quite kill a ghost twice. 

2. (Positive) Still thinking about the haunting Hounds thing? Well there can be an upside to this. Intentionally killing off one member of the team in order to haunt Hounds from Hound Mounds/Wargs in order to have a significantly higher chance of getting gems (even out of season gems. E.g. Red Hounds in Winter.) Not only is their 1 less mouth to feed this way, but you can also up the chances for Treeguards, change Petals/Flowers into Evil Petals/Evil Flowers for Nightmare Fuel farming purposes. I'm sure that I am only scratching the surface here, but I think you get the picture.

I'm not implying that one action/change should/shouldn't happen to the system. I've been super paranoid about this mechanic ever since it's conception, and I don't want to add to that stigma. I am just here to point out some things to expand the discussion. (To add unmentioned variables.) Hopefully some of this made since, and made some people think more about not only Vote Kick, but Ghosts as a whole.

[Scoobie101]

*only read the title of the topic*

It's terrible, get rid of it.

[ItsPizzaTime]

I've been playing considerably less ever since it's been implemented because it has caused nothing but my friends and I trouble. I used to not have problems with greifers and if I did I was a part of a base I didn't care about because I always try to build in a hidden location (mostly deep in caves), now I can be anywhere and lose all my hard work to a couple of new players who are to lazy / new to know to join a different server close to day 1. 

Not even worth the wasted time, these days if I really have a taste for the game I go and play singleplayer because multiplayer is just dead to me.

[ShadowDuelist]

9 hours ago, FTR said:

like score based on distance travelled and performed actions like number of killed hostile monster, created means etc.

The game already tracks when someone burns structures, maybe an automated score system could help, at least in part, identify griefers too.

[leonseye]

3 hours ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

I've been playing considerably less ever since it's been implemented because it has caused nothing but my friends and I trouble. I used to not have problems with greifers and if I did I was a part of a base I didn't care about because I always try to build in a hidden location (mostly deep in caves), now I can be anywhere and lose all my hard work to a couple of new players who are to lazy / new to know to join a different server close to day 1. 

Not even worth the wasted time, these days if I really have a taste for the game I go and play singleplayer because multiplayer is just dead to me.

You have friends.  Why not make a friends-only server?

Serious question.

[ItsPizzaTime]

11 minutes ago, leonseye said:

You have friends.  Why not make a friends-only server?

Serious question.

I have hundreds of times before, we're not always on at the same time and when we are sometimes interaction with strangers weve never met can be extremely fun and rewarding. There should be no reason we have to completely avoid everyone to have fun just because of a few sour apples.

[leonseye]

1 hour ago, ItsPizzaTime said:

I have hundreds of times before, we're not always on at the same time and when we are sometimes interaction with strangers weve never met can be extremely fun and rewarding. There should be no reason we have to completely avoid everyone to have fun just because of a few sour apples.

Oh, I agree w/ the latter.  I just wasn't understanding why your options were between "play w/ the public" or "play completely alone", instead of just "playing w/ friends".

[Faintly Macabre]

18 hours ago, FTR said:

^All of that happened on official klei servers.

Stop playing on those servers. I can't understand why anyone thinks they will ever be able to reliably have a nice, long, untroubled game on a server that runs 24/7 with no administrator around. Sometimes you just need to have a guy around with the ability to say, "Nope. Not doing that." Most of these suggestions will just invite different types of abuse and tyranny anyway. As long as any random person can just come and go and there's nobody around with the power to handle these sorts of problems, they'll just keep happening over and over and over again.

P.S.: Why can I only see 48 of 1600-ish servers right now? Edit: Nevermind. Guessing it's the beta.

[GentlemanFridge]

1 hour ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

 

P.S.: Why can I only see 48 of 1600-ish servers right now?

If you have the ANR beta enabled, it only shows the servers that have it enabled as well.

 

On topic: We've all experienced something similar, and it will always happen. No matter what you do about it. There are plenty of servers where griefers rarely come, and I've recently played on a server with very nice mods and host, who came online fairly frequently.

But there are griefers there as well, they will always try to or burn the base, or do a regen. And if they ever find the right time when there's noone on that server, it will regenerate. Be it by the griefer comitting suicide, or vote to regen.

I'm afraid removing the regen vote won't solve anything, at least not for survival servers.

And what about the griefer burning the base, and killing everyone around in the process? Then the griefer would vote for a regen, and all the older dead players wouldn't be able do to anything.

 

I myself can't think of a single solution to all these problems, but I'm sure there is one.

Until that solution is found, have fun playing anyway, and try to avoid griefers as much as you can.

[FTR]

4 hours ago, TheHalcyonOne said:

Stop playing on those servers. I can't understand why anyone thinks they will ever be able to reliably have a nice, long, untroubled game on a server that runs 24/7 with no administrator around. Sometimes you just need to have a guy around with the ability to say, "Nope. Not doing that." Most of these suggestions will just invite different types of abuse and tyranny anyway. As long as any random person can just come and go and there's nobody around with the power to handle these sorts of problems, they'll just keep happening over and over and over again.

P.S.: Why can I only see 48 of 1600-ish servers right now? Edit: Nevermind. Guessing it's the beta.

I am not joining any server of that small assumption that admin is going to be on. I would rather rely on good voting system, and built in anti grief mechanics (like rollback world or player kick, but in better form) than that small lucky chance of encountering admin.

Besides half of admins I met weren't any good, thinking tripling my speed is something I would want..

On topic: We've all experienced something similar, and it will always happen. No matter what you do about it. There are plenty of servers where griefers rarely come, and I've recently played on a server with very nice mods and host, who came online fairly frequently.

I am never touching servers with mods. I hate mods in general. The only mods that are fine to me are anti-grief or mods like "always on status", "minimap" etc. There are rarely any modded servers that just have non-cheat mods.

But there are griefers there as well, they will always try to or burn the base, or do a regen. And if they ever find the right time when there's noone on that server, it will regenerate. Be it by the griefer comitting suicide, or vote to regen.

I am not ever expecting map to be still here after I leave the server and finish playing this day. Does anyone? That would be extremly optimistic, and not because of griefiers but because of people that can't stay alive especially newcomers in very late game. Longest games on public servers I played went through over two full "years".

I'm afraid removing the regen vote won't solve anything, at least not for survival servers.

Considering it's just bad voting system that's screwing me almost every day, I would say it would improve things by good amount.

And what about the griefer burning the base, and killing everyone around in the process? Then the griefer would vote for a regen, and all the older dead players wouldn't be able do to anything.

Either start vote quickly after you notice grief happening or quickly vote no for current vote. Votes spamming is just another issue with this system.

[TheTraditionalGentleman]

On 8/30/2016 at 9:04 AM, FTR said:

So there is a lot things wrong with voting system in current form. A lot problems actually.

1. Players tend to vote "yes" to kick people, not even knowing them. I was playing with this super helpful and quiet guy, who basically built base and was working really hard. Then he decided to expand base by demolishing part of the walls (it was really tight) and building new things over there, so probably because of that someone started vote to kick him, and obviously all new players that recently joined voted yes, not even knowing reason (nobody wrote anything on chat about him, just started vote). He was, in my opinion, the most helpful player, yet he was kicked.

Another example of random kick (or unjustified kick) is when I was doing good, building base and keeping everyone alive (winter time, and not very experienced players). But then everyone decided to leave my base and go on adventure, and all died within within 3 days. I offered to res them if they come back, but guess what they did instead - vote kicked me so they could restart the world.

 

My suggestions to make voting system way better than it is now:

1. Make public nicks of players that voted and started vote, this may discourage people from voting recklessly on various things.

2. Strenght of vote of one player should not equal strenght of vote of another player. Make votes have "weight" and votes of players who played a lot on the server (like 20+ days) should have way more weight. Even better system would be evaluation of player actions, like score based on distance travelled and performed actions like number of killed hostile monster, created means etc. but this would require way more work to implement.

3. Remove "regenerate" world vote completly. In the current system, you join server, work your ass off to build decent base, survive 30+ days and then some new players join and they all decide "hey let's regenerate world" without even asking for help or even trying to survive, and you are screwed big time. Last time it happened even players that played from the beggining voted to renengerate, simply becuase they couldn't survive winter. So if you can't survive winter, will you just player autumn over and over again instead of trying to learn? Today we had amazing base, yet players voted to regenerate world anyway, I assume half of votes were from players that just joined and didn't even care about anything that was built.

Regenerate world vote shouldn't even exsist. In what circumstances would you want to regenerate the world !? That should only happen when EVERYONE die, and die for real, not commit suicide.

4. Prohibit ghosts from voting. Yep, dead players should not have right to decide on anything, especially as in current system all votes are equal.. so vote of someone who spent 30+ days working hard is as strong as vote of new player in ghost form who just joined and died to darkness.

I don't even see point of playing right now and building base, because as soon as winter arrives half of players die or get replaced by new ones, they vote to refresh world..

 

^All of that happened on official klei servers.

That all sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[PiturcaClaudiuStef]

ik what you mean about griefing but a griefing can be prevented with rollback and you can easily kick them if you make your own server yeah i know it can be annoying.

[PiturcaClaudiuStef]

On 30 August 2016 at 4:04 PM, FTR said:

So there is a lot things wrong with voting system in current form. A lot problems actually.

1. Players tend to vote "yes" to kick people, not even knowing them. I was playing with this super helpful and quiet guy, who basically built base and was working really hard. Then he decided to expand base by demolishing part of the walls (it was really tight) and building new things over there, so probably because of that someone started vote to kick him, and obviously all new players that recently joined voted yes, not even knowing reason (nobody wrote anything on chat about him, just started vote). He was, in my opinion, the most helpful player, yet he was kicked.

Another example of random kick (or unjustified kick) is when I was doing good, building base and keeping everyone alive (winter time, and not very experienced players). But then everyone decided to leave my base and go on adventure, and all died within within 3 days. I offered to res them if they come back, but guess what they did instead - vote kicked me so they could restart the world.

 

 

9

yeah that happened to me too once i was playing on DST academy and a player named "GetFedorDie" made vote to kick because i was in the desert and it was his spot and everybody voted yes without even asking why

[GentlemanFridge]

6 hours ago, FTR said:

 

I am never touching servers with mods. I hate mods in general. The only mods that are fine to me are anti-grief or mods like "always on status", "minimap" etc. There are rarely any modded servers that just have non-cheat mods.

 

 

I meant moderators, co-hosts if you will. I (almost) never play on heavily modded servers either.

I forgot to mention that I do like the idea of showing the player who started the vote. I've had multiple watchacallit... worlds? where that would've saved an innocent kick...

[Joachim]

8 hours ago, FTR said:

I am never touching servers with mods. I hate mods in general. The only mods that are fine to me are anti-grief or mods like "always on status", "minimap" etc. There are rarely any modded servers that just have non-cheat mods.

Mods have a bad reputation, but what do you consider cheat mods? There are mods out there that add content, but do not make the game any easier.

[PiturcaClaudiuStef]

1 hour ago, Joachim said:

Mods have a bad reputation, but what do you consider cheat mods? There are mods out there that add content, but do not make the game any easier.

 

but most of the mods make the game easier tho