Ideas to make Poison more balanced


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So I suppose we all have been poisoned at least once and depending on the time of it happening it's either a minor inconvenience or a big deal. Thing is that poison is far to powerfull in the earlygame as you might not find Corals or a Venomgland to make Antidote and get rid of it. So i was trying to come up with some ideas to make poison a little bit more balanced for both early and lategame. I have different ideas and i will List them from what i think is probably the best idea to the worst.

 

 

Staged Poison: What i mean with this is that poison instead of being a flat status now has different stages and with that more noticable effects on the player the more poisoned he is. For example let's say you get bitten by any type of poison enemy you get the first stage of poison what saps 3 HP every 60-90 seconds making it not so much of a dealbreaker early on. Get bit again and you have stage 2 poisoning what deals 4 damage every 50 seconds. Stage 3 would be 7 damage over 30 seconds and Stage 4 would be 1 HP every 5 seconds. This would make poison not so much of an issue early on since there are a lot of ways to replenish at least 3 HP early on so it's not a direct death sentence if you happend to get poisoned on day 3 or so. Obviously you still have to deal with the sanity damage (that maybe also increases with each stage).

 

As another balance point it can also happen that enemys later on are able to apply Stage 2 poison or even stage 3 poison right of the bat making it still a danger in later stages of the game. Like a Spiderwarrior might apply Stage 2 poison while the yellow snakes only apply Stage 1 poison.

 

As a visual effect you can use Green Bubbles around the HP bar like it is now but higher stages of poison have more bubbles around the Heart so you know how poisoned you are.

 

More earlygame ways to heal poison: This would be the other way to make poison not so much of a dealbreak by adding another type of antidote what you might find early on but is not replenishable or very rare so it's not to broken for the lategame. For example maybe if you pick up a seashell there is a really low chance to find a rare seaslug that you can use to cure poison. Or maybe sometimes when explore the Jungle you might come across a rare plant that also is able to cure yourself of poison but it won't regrow/regrows very slowly (around 30 days between picks).

 

Fixed Poisondamage: Personally not so much of a fan but i might add it anyway. So instead of poison sapping your HP until you'r dead it now saps only a specific % of your max HP for example 25%. Not an elegant way of solving it but it's an idea i suppose.

 

HP treshhold: Basicly this means poison can't reduce your HP below a certaint treshhold. For example say you play as Wilson who has 150 base HP and you get poisoned the poison would stop reducing your HP once you reach maybe 40 HP poison stops sapping your health but also prevents you from going over that treshhold until you cure yourself of it.

 

And this ends my suggestions to balance out poison a bit more. And if someone might have an idea to adjust something just say it out and i will change the post if i think it's a valuable change to one of my ideas.

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There is a way to avoid poison altogether...poison is actually balanced, you just haven't worked it out yet :)

 

Just make shell armour and avoid yellow/green spiders and snakes before said armour is built.
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Poison actually does ramp already, but at a very slow pace:

	    POISON_DAMAGE_RAMP = -- Elapsed time must be greater than the time value for the associated damage_scale/fxlevel value to be used	    {	    	{time=0, 					damage_scale=1, 	interval_scale = 1, 	fxlevel=1},	    	{time=1*total_day_time, 	damage_scale=1.1, 	interval_scale = 1, 	fxlevel=1},	    	{time=2*total_day_time, 	damage_scale=1.2, 	interval_scale = 1, 	fxlevel=1},	    	{time=3*total_day_time, 	damage_scale=1.3, 	interval_scale = .9, 	fxlevel=2},	    	{time=4*total_day_time, 	damage_scale=1.4, 	interval_scale = .8, 	fxlevel=2},	    	{time=5*total_day_time, 	damage_scale=1.5, 	interval_scale = .7, 	fxlevel=2},	    	{time=6*total_day_time, 	damage_scale=1.6, 	interval_scale = .6, 	fxlevel=3},	    	{time=7*total_day_time, 	damage_scale=1.7, 	interval_scale = .5, 	fxlevel=3},	    	{time=8*total_day_time, 	damage_scale=1.8, 	interval_scale = .4, 	fxlevel=3},	    	{time=9*total_day_time, 	damage_scale=1.9, 	interval_scale = .3, 	fxlevel=4},	    	{time=10*total_day_time,	damage_scale=2, 	interval_scale = .2, 	fxlevel=4},		},

It could perhaps me made to have more of a slope during the first day or two, but personally I think poison's mechanics and balance right now are great.

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Seriously,seashell suit protects from poison? So simple? Now thats need a rebalancing :p Even without knowing that offers a protection from poisoning,poisoning its ok for me.I mean when poison mosquitos spawns its easy to have antidote whenever you want.Snakes are easy to fight em,just do it right.
Hp threshold i can say its interesting.But seriously,shell armor you can make from day 1.Maybe a lit bit more difficult to craft it,sounds better....

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I think there's nothing wrong with poison. Yes you can't handle it in the early game so don't walk into a poisonous snake/spider! And if you do then it's not really a big deal. You haven't done much on that world either way if you don't have the recourses to make an antidote. And if you get bit in the late game and there's one ingredient missing, then it's a really fun quest to go and find it!

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After your first couple runs, you learn how to fight and prevent poisoning. I think it's balanced enough as is. Maybe making the insanity aura a little less extreme would be nice, but other than that, I say leave it as is.

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More earlygame ways to heal poison: This would be the other way to make poison not so much of a dealbreak by adding another type of antidote what you might find early on but is not replenishable or very rare so it's not to broken for the lategame. For example maybe if you pick up a seashell there is a really low chance to find a rare seaslug that you can use to cure poison. Or maybe sometimes when explore the Jungle you might come across a rare plant that also is able to cure yourself of poison but it won't regrow/regrows very slowly (around 30 days between picks).

This is a good idea, expect that if the play have to heal it with some rare items, then it may be too hard to get.

It should make better sense if there is another cheap emergency way dealing with the poison but not doing it well.

For example: a bandage, made from twigs and cut grass or rope, equipped in the hand slot.

This slow down the venom from spreading by blocking your blood flow. This prevents you from using weapons or torches, but saves your life for a while. And this item should have a short durability.

 

HP treshhold: Basicly this means poison can't reduce your HP below a certaint treshhold. For example say you play as Wilson who has 150 base HP and you get poisoned the poison would stop reducing your HP once you reach maybe 40 HP poison stops sapping your health but also prevents you from going over that treshhold until you cure yourself of it.

IMO this will make the poison too weak.

I think it's not poison itself is OP. Actually sometimes it is not strong enough compared to real life when you are bitten by a snake.

The problem is that the character catches the poison too easily.

IMO, wearing armors should be able to reduce the chance of being poisoned, like the creature could unluckily inject its venom into the armor not the human.

And mosquitoes are too strong if one sting would kill someone (slowly).

Their stings should only have a chance to poison the character, instead of 100%.

And poison from different creatures should differ.

Snake venom should very strong, that make the player loses health faster. While spiders' slightly weaker, and mosquitoes' weakest.

 

 

Summary

Poison is not OP.

Mosquitoes are OP.

Could add an emergency item to slow the health loss.

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I'd say instead of 100% of being poisoned by poisonous creatures on attack, make it a say, 1 in 3 or something, as some poisonous creatures do Dry Bite after all. Leave the actual poison the way it is, you should still need to exercise caution when dealing with said creatures, but I think it'd be a little more manageable if not every attack would automatically poison you. Though I think the Geysers would be exempt from this, they literally expel poison farts constantly, so getting poisoned from those is usually a result of your own incompetence. 

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The "poison" is troublesome, that's for sure.

 

Then again .. I dunno, but on the death list its called "Shenanigans" .. how's that related to any kind of poison ?

 

Then again, its probably reasonable - tropical climate is not something to take easy, a single scratch can lead to a severe condition if unattended.

 

I just think that (a) the poisoning has to wear off after a certain time, say, 5 days. Makes sense to me. (b) there are gotta be more kinds of possible antidotes, not just a single one based on a rare drop from a yellow snake ..

 

 

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Why are you trying to make a poison that doesn't kill??? Its a poison not a parasite.. Poison kills. Also its very easy to avoid getting poisoned and the speed at which it kills is quite reasonable. Now, I will review the poison mechanic for you:

 

1. You can get poisoned from a yellow snake, yellow spider, the stinkrays and those poisonous vapors. Only 4 ways to get poisoned from an environment.

2. Did you really get poisoned by one of these 4 and didn't think that it was your mistake? 4 ways you will get poisoned:

               a)You walked into a vapor and got poisoned...really? and its the poison that's broken not your eyes?

               b)Stinkrays farted on you? Why did you mess with them in the first place. You can just ignore them and sail away.

               c)Yellow spiders jumped on you. And how come that yellow spider spawned? You just run at the spider nest with a blind fold and expected something else?

               d)Yellow snakes popped out and bit you. Well make a habit of walking away after you chop a tree or look at the vines if they are moving or not. And kill em when you see em, 3 hits from a spear or machete - easy.

3. Shellsuit or gas mask. nuff said

4. Anti-venom cure - all you need is corals, seaweed, and the venom gland. I can understand if you didn't have the gland but the first 2? When did you get poisoned? Day1?

 

If someone gets poisoned then it was that person's mistake. The game also already has a fix for that mistake. It is supposed to be difficult to make, although honestly it is quite cheap, you just need the gland.

 

But you want to make it so that mistake is not even that punishing? You didn't say anything about preventing from getting poisoned. You jumped right into assuming that you get poisoned and that the poison isn't supposed to kill you... C'mon man!

 

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Sorry, but no. You're wrong.

 

I've been looking for 11 days straight. No coral for anti-venom. There's been people who die from the poisoning. Permanently. Early-game.

 

Poison, as it is, is unbalanced. OP is correct.

 

What poisoned you?

 

I got poisoned the first time by the poison geysir in the swamp from this time on, I dont get near those things, or any other poisoning creature in the game, untill I have 3x sea weed and 2 corals.

 

It is easy enough to get not poisoned at all in the first 50 days.

 

If you see stuff that can poison you, run away.

And build the seashell armor asap.

 

The only real problem are Stinkrays, if you only have a slow raft,

but if you zoom out enough you will see them before they agro on you.

 

 

So poison is actually very good balanced.

Good work Klei and Capy, I like the poison mechanic. ^^

(but not the random monsoon puddles in my base and the 1000 damage volcano bombs ^^)

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Poison is fine the way it is.  Yes, newbs who don't know about it die to it.  That's the learning curve - and new name - of the game:   Don't Get Poisoned.  It's definitely a unique experience if you're well versed in previous version and used to knowing exactly how to deal with everything, but quite frankly I've enjoyed it as I kind of ruined a lot of the surprise of original DS by wiki-reading, which I've avoided this time. 

 

After my first time I learned to REALLY pay attention to snakes.  Then I learned spiders were also poisonous.  After a few more poison things, I figured it out - be really careful, lots of things are poisonous.  It's not that hard, especially if you can make it to spring, when you can get lots of poison glands, or figure out the even easier way to get them any time.   Early on, if you can get past the first 10 days or so you're pretty likely to have found coral unless you've been turtleing in a base, which is an even worse idea in SW that it was in original.

 

My main complaint is that gas mask does not offer immunity to Stinkray poison.  That's HIGHLY counter-intuitive considering they're patterned like a skunk and their attack looks like a gas cloud, and frustrating if you get poisoned that way and don't get any glands from it.  There's no reason for gas masks to not protect from stinkrays.

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What poisoned you?

 

I got poisoned the first time by the poison geysir in the swamp from this time on, I dont get near those things, or any other poisoning creature in the game, untill I have 3x sea weed and 2 corals.

 

It is easy enough to get not poisoned at all in the first 50 days.

 

If you see stuff that can poison you, run away.

And build the seashell armor asap.

 

The only real problem are Stinkrays, if you only have a slow raft,

but if you zoom out enough you will see them before they agro on you.

 

 

So poison is actually very good balanced.

Good work Klei and Capy, I like the poison mechanic. ^^

(but not the random monsoon puddles in my base and the 1000 damage volcano bombs ^^)

I have managed to avoid getting poisoned. But i've ALSO managed to completely avoid finding the resources needed for survival any longer, so I may as well have been poisoned.

 

Seashell Armor requires the Science Machine, I believe. Also, seashells are another rare resource.

 

The real problem is that unless you get very lucky, you're going to find that resources you NEED in order to survive, will be behind these poisonous enemies. I'm supposed to run away from poisonous enemies, but those poisonous enemies have the resources I need to survive the poisonous enemies. Catch-22.

 

The resources i'm referring to are not just glands. Not coral. Gold, Spider Silk, trees, bamboo, vines! Stuff I need to move to islands with better things on them! I certainly ain't gonna be able to just life-jacket my way there.

 

Poison is fine the way it is.  Yes, newbs who don't know about it die to it.  That's the learning curve - and new name - of the game:   Don't Get Poisoned.  It's definitely a unique experience if you're well versed in previous version and used to knowing exactly how to deal with everything, but quite frankly I've enjoyed it as I kind of ruined a lot of the surprise of original DS by wiki-reading, which I've avoided this time. 

 

After my first time I learned to REALLY pay attention to snakes.  Then I learned spiders were also poisonous.  After a few more poison things, I figured it out - be really careful, lots of things are poisonous.  It's not that hard, especially if you can make it to spring, when you can get lots of poison glands, or figure out the even easier way to get them any time.   Early on, if you can get past the first 10 days or so you're pretty likely to have found coral unless you've been turtleing in a base, which is an even worse idea in SW that it was in original.

 

My main complaint is that gas mask does not offer immunity to Stinkray poison.  That's HIGHLY counter-intuitive considering they're patterned like a skunk and their attack looks like a gas cloud, and frustrating if you get poisoned that way and don't get any glands from it.  There's no reason for gas masks to not protect from stinkrays.

1. Only certain spiders and snakes are poisonous. Pay attention to colors.

 

2. If. IF. BIG IF.

 

3. I'm not turtling that much. I've already explored a large section of the map without finding coral.

 

4. Oh wow. Really? They didn't do that much?....c'mon, Capy......you got some PATCHING TO DOOOOO.....

 

The OP here is a friend of mine. He is not new to Don't Starve in the least, and the poison mechanic is giving him fits. I have other friends who are also not new to Don't Starve, who permanently died due to poisoning. The poison mechanic, in my eyes, is not just difficult. It's not just unfair. It's brutally sadistic. Don't get me wrong, i'm all for difficulty, but this is taking things too far.

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1. You can get poisoned from a yellow snake, yellow spider, the stinkrays and those poisonous vapors. Only 4 ways to get poisoned from an environment.

 

Forgot those mosquitoes, 5 ways to get poisoned.

 

IMO The only unfair thing of poison mechanics is the indirect poison. Doesn't make sense a poisoned mob poison me.

 

Like the others said: If you got poisoned it was your mistake, you can ignore those little stinkray bastards, you can easily kill a yellow snake, you can just stay away from that poisonous holes, it will be real stupid fight spider warriors without armor and you can dodge the mosquitoes attack, because their animation are very slow.

 

seashells are another rare resource.

 

seashells are not that rare. You can find it in many beaches and it's reneable (i think), in some cases just with one beach you can collect enough seashell to make a seashell armor.

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Forgot those mosquitoes, 5 ways to get poisoned.

 

IMO The only unfair thing of poison mechanics is the indirect poison. Doesn't make sense a poisoned mob poison me.

 

Like the others said: If you got poisoned it was your mistake, you can ignore those little stinkray bastards, you can easily kill a yellow snake, you can just stay away from that poisonous holes, it will be real stupid fight spider warriors without armor and you can dodge the mosquitoes attack, because their animation are very slow.

 

 

 

 

seashells are not that rare. You can find it in many beaches and it's reneable (i think), in some cases just with one beach you can collect enough seashell to make a seashell armor.

 

Oh yeah, another thing: YOU NEED THE SCIENCE MACHINE TO MAKE ANTIVENOM!

 

Suppose you're like me, and you have the most amazingly awful luck trying to find gold. Then you're SCREWED. No anti-venom. No seriously, i've had playthroughs where I never found any gold whatsoever. ZILCH. And you need the Science Machine to turn doubloons into gold, so that doesn't help me either.

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Poison seems like a really underwhelming mechanic to me. I never experienced it until about day 50 when mosquito started spawning, and at that point I had plenty of the ingredients to make the anti-venom. At that point, it becomes a completely irrelevant mechanic, especially once you make that Seashell armor.

 

I'd argue not enough things can poison you right now. I suppose it can screw over new players, but let's be honest, the majority of this game screws over new players, you're meant to die and learn what happens. Died from being poisoned by the yellow snake? Too bad, avoid the yellow snake next time. Once you learn the 4 or 5 things in the game that can actually poison you, which don't commonly appear, it becomes a very irrelevant mechanic.

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Poison seems like a really underwhelming mechanic to me. I never experienced it until about day 50 when mosquito started spawning, and at that point I had plenty of the ingredients to make the anti-venom. At that point, it becomes a completely irrelevant mechanic, especially once you make that Seashell armor.

 

I'd argue not enough things can poison you right now. I suppose it can screw over new players, but let's be honest, the majority of this game screws over new players, you're meant to die and learn what happens. Died from being poisoned by the yellow snake? Too bad, avoid the yellow snake next time. Once you learn the 4 or 5 things in the game that can actually poison you, which don't commonly appear, it becomes a very irrelevant mechanic.

 

There are also posion frogs in the gamefiles, we will have cute frogs soon. ^^

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Oh yeah, another thing: YOU NEED THE SCIENCE MACHINE TO MAKE ANTIVENOM!

 

Suppose you're like me, and you have the most amazingly awful luck trying to find gold. Then you're SCREWED. No anti-venom. No seriously, i've had playthroughs where I never found any gold whatsoever. ZILCH. And you need the Science Machine to turn doubloons into gold, so that doesn't help me either.

 

Silentdarkness I can't tell you exactly what the problem is because I don't know how you play, but you're obviously doing several things really wrong if you're having so much trouble finding gold, coral, poison glands and shells.

 

Coral is absolutely everywhere in every run I've found. Maybe you're getting super unlucky but I suspect you aren't spending enough time sailing around if you haven't found any. On my current run there are at least 10 coral reefs that I've found so far (I'm at day 55 but I found most of them in my first 10-20 days)

 

Gold is again friggin everywhere. I would say about 1/4 islands have gold mines on them that's not including the magma biomes that are peppered with gold, and doubloons show up all the time. I had like 14 gold by the end of the first season without really looking for it, and that's after using it to craft stuff like alchemy engine etc. If you see bottles with messages in them, I would prioritize heading to the dig site because there's usually gold there ime.

 

Seashells are also on about 1 out of every 3 beach biomes I see, maybe you aren't spotting them though? They aren't incredibly plentiful but I didn't make seashell armor until half way through monsoon season and I had no major problem with poison despite being poisoned about 3 or 4 times. Seashell armor is far from a necessity.

 

Poison glands are probably the rarest of these items but in most cases I can find at least one if I tool around looking for them for a day. Poison snakes aren't exactly rare and they are super easy to fight. Kill about 5 of them and you're basically guaranteed a poison gland. I hear they drop super commonly from the stinkrays but I haven't had to bother farming them for glands.

 

Again not putting you down, but it sounds like you don't spend very much time exploring, which would explain why you seem to not run into any of these resources. If you haven't checked out like 6-8 islands by the end of the first season you're definitely not exploring enough. Poison is super easy to avoid if you're playing cautiously, and if you happen to get poisoned you have at least a couple of full days to find a gland even if you never replenish your health. With handfuls of food, flowers and spider butts you can easily stretch that to a week or so of roaming around looking for poison glands.

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Silentdarkness I can't tell you exactly what the problem is because I don't know how you play, but you're obviously doing several things really wrong if you're having so much trouble finding gold, coral, poison glands and shells.

 

Coral is absolutely everywhere in every run I've found. Maybe you're getting super unlucky but I suspect you aren't spending enough time sailing around if you haven't found any. On my current run there are at least 10 coral reefs that I've found so far (I'm at day 55 but I found most of them in my first 10-20 days)

 

Gold is again friggin everywhere. I would say about 1/4 islands have gold mines on them that's not including the magma biomes that are peppered with gold, and doubloons show up all the time. I had like 14 gold by the end of the first season without really looking for it, and that's after using it to craft stuff like alchemy engine etc. If you see bottles with messages in them, I would prioritize heading to the dig site because there's usually gold there ime.

 

Seashells are also on about 1 out of every 3 beach biomes I see, maybe you aren't spotting them though? They aren't incredibly plentiful but I didn't make seashell armor until half way through monsoon season and I had no major problem with poison despite being poisoned about 3 or 4 times. Seashell armor is far from a necessity.

 

Poison glands are probably the rarest of these items but in most cases I can find at least one if I tool around looking for them for a day. Poison snakes aren't exactly rare and they are super easy to fight. Kill about 5 of them and you're basically guaranteed a poison gland. I hear they drop super commonly from the stinkrays but I haven't had to bother farming them for glands.

 

Again not putting you down, but it sounds like you don't spend very much time exploring, which would explain why you seem to not run into any of these resources. If you haven't checked out like 6-8 islands by the end of the first season you're definitely not exploring enough. Poison is super easy to avoid if you're playing cautiously, and if you happen to get poisoned you have at least a couple of full days to find a gland even if you never replenish your health. With handfuls of food, flowers and spider butts you can easily stretch that to a week or so of roaming around looking for poison glands.

 

1. ORRR I genuinely do get shafted by the RNG consistently.

 

2. WHAT? AHAHAHAHAHAHA! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That is SOOOO not the case for me. Coral is a rare and lucky find for me. I started up a new playthrough, and all my days of searching turned up two coral reef chunks. Not enough to save me from 2 or 3 poisonings, max.

 

3. Gold is NOT friggin everywhere. I'm lucky to find enough gold to just barely scrape by with the essentials.

 

4. Thanks for the tip about the X Marks the Spot.

 

5. Okay, perhaps seashells aren't rare, just uncommon.

 

6. How did you even survive getting poisoned that many times? I would have run out of materials to make anti-venom by then and slowly died.

 

7. From what I hear, Stinkrays are a bad choice for glands.

 

8. Actually, I HAVE! I have done LOTS of exploring. It's just that this stuff is literally that rare that I end up crawling on my hands and knees to survive.

 

9. It's hard to avoid when you get chased into the swamp in the middle of the night, and walk right into the poison hole.

 

10. More like a day and a half, and that's if you're at full health. Which will probably NOT be the case.

 

11. That's almost never the case for me. I rarely ever have that much food in this game.

 

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So i read through a lot of the replys and i think people don't seem to get what i think about poison so i try to make my point a bit more clear.

 

As it stands right now poison is not balanced as it's a complete gamebreaker if you happend to get poisoned before having the items for Antivenom (and you can get poisoned even by accident if you happen to run into a trap with Yellow Snakes where it's very likely to get poisoned) while it's completly irrelevant once you have 2 or more Antivenoms stashed.

 

Here is the thing if i have to reset a gane because i got poisoned by accident that's not a balanced out mechanic it's bad gamedesigne because you force the player to reset because of 1 small mistake. And again while it is possible to avoid a lot of poison early on later on it's really hard to do so once the Monsoonseason hits you. Givin if you don't have Antivenom at this point it's my own fault and i agree that i should be punished for it.

 

On the other scale we have the midgame so basicly day 30+ and by that point you probably have enought materials to make more antivenom then you ever need but this makes the entire mechanic almost pointless and is only a minor annoyance.

 

When i talked about making it more balanced i mean that it should be less punishing in the earlygame while being a lot harsher in the lategame and only adding some numbers to the damage and sanity drain doesn't make it balanced it's a fake type of difficulty.

 

Again it's not that poison itself is a bad mechanic but as it stands right now it's a major spike in difficulty in the earlygame and it completly falls in terms of difficulty as the days go on until it hits a point where it's nothing but a worthless mechanic.

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I disagree. I think poison is fine. You just need to be careful. I´ve been playing and on my new run I haven´t found a single anti-venom, but surviving just fine.

 

However, it would be cool if there were different types of poison. Was disappointed that all creatures have the same type =( Maybe like a poison like from Into The Wild, the one that stops you from digesting and leads to starvation. That be cool. Another one could drive you sanity down instead of health.

 
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