Klei please listen. The "survival" aspect of the game is dying slowly.

[Catuna_]

9 hours ago, Swiyss said:

She can freaking kill 100 spiders with 5 "embers". Where are we going???? What's the result of this? Why are people not concerned about this?

Using a theoretical video combining all damage boosts possible to demonstrate a point is not a good look. That's just insane nitpicking. Killing spiders in a massive AoE is nothing special man, Abigail's been doing that for a couple years now. You're thinking too deep into it, you should just do us a favor and rest that brain of yours instead.

[Swiyss]

7 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

Using a theoretical video combining all damage boosts possible to demonstrate a point is not a good look. That's just insane nitpicking. Killing spiders in a massive AoE is nothing special man, Abigail's been doing that for a couple years now. You're thinking too deep into it, you should just do us a favor and rest that brain of yours instead.

If you read the entire thread you would be the one to rest in piece.

All of the things mentioned here were adressed

[Szczuku]

3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Or maybe Klei is listening to the majority

The whole concept of skill trees was made because there was a large outcry for progression outside of this forum.

What people wanted was the world progressing naturally as the time passes. People wanted generic changes like new seasonal mechanic that are randomly empowered each year, so that seasons don't feel as static and predictable. People wanted changes to the world, not specific new content that you have to seek out and engage with. People wanted changes to the world to arrive on their own, as time passes; Klei couldn't even implemet a hardmode after defeating endgame bosses because "goo-goo gaa-gaa i want muh bone armor and enlightment crown, without rifts waaaa"

Not once have I seen a "this game needs skill trees" suggestion, nevermind one that would attract a following. But I have seen numerous "add progression and randomness to the world" threads that ended up with lots of supporting comments and reactions.

And like, what is Klei's bussiness plan here? They are catering to new players, begging them to not abandon the game before 2 hours pass. And then what, what will Klei do to keep those players engaged once they too become veterans that know the ins and outs of dst?

Saying the skill trees are good for this game is just lying through ones teeth

[Antynomity]

Because klei focuses on characters rather than world content, there, I've said it, they are definitely getting better at stuff but it's taking so long that before those get to flourish we'll have most characters on the power level of current maxwell in places, and he will also get a skill tree.

Also I can't stand the beard hate train, wow he did something questionable years ago and you don't like his content = he is bad bad bad the worst of the worst, like tf?

51 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

What people wanted was the world progressing naturally as the time passes. People wanted generic changes like new seasonal mechanic that are randomly empowered each year, so that seasons don't feel as static and predictable. People wanted changes to the world, not specific new content that you have to seek out and engage with. People wanted changes to the world to arrive on their own, as time passes; Klei couldn't even implemet a hardmode after defeating endgame bosses because "goo-goo gaa-gaa i want muh bone armor and enlightment crown, without rifts waaaa"

Not once have I seen a "this game needs skill trees" suggestion, nevermind one that would attract a following. But I have seen numerous "add progression and randomness to the world" threads that ended up with lots of supporting comments and reactions.

And like, what is Klei's bussiness plan here? They are catering to new players, begging them to not abandon the game before 2 hours pass. And then what, what will Klei do to keep those players engaged once they too become veterans that know the ins and outs of dst?

Saying the skill trees are good for this game is just lying through ones teeth

I've been with don't starve for 7 years now, and world progressing and changes have been the thing I've seen the most of everywhere, I want it myself.

What I got was an arbitrary damage system, powercreep and rushed updates every month or second month until now.

I'm not asking for much, but even the atmosphere doesn't feel good anymore, but every time I go back to DS I feel like the world is alive, even if theres less content and a crap load of bugs. 

10 hours ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

Killing spiders in mass is nothing special, the future of this game is being designed on the post rift side of the wall, that the level 1 boss gets steamrolled is to be expected in the planar damage world, as powercreep seeps in, the pendulumn is likely to swing the other way, and that level of damage scalling may barely keep up with boss healing.

 

How is that a good thing? Trivialise content pre-rifts when rifts have barely any content and won't have w good tangible, challenging and engaging long-term gameplay loop?  

If that's actually the case I'm not long for this game, I'm not waiting 3 years for the rifts to have half of the content the pre-rifts part of the game has.

[mykenception]

2 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I don't know why so many people have that many strong opinions about something so blatantly meaningless. Could help being more adaptable yn?

I think it's because you're the first person ever (from what I've seen) to strongly defend the existence of diseases and is against it's removal

 

[Antynomity]

7 hours ago, Mr Giggio said:

Snip

The bigger picture is that we have went from wilson's measly buffs from affinities 'BeCaUsE hE's VaNiLlA' alongside some niche crafts to willow's strong spells in a game that USED to reward you ONLY for your knowledge, see you in 2 years for the skill tree reworks! I hope we keep getting these character updates so the game never evolves at this point

5 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Or maybe Klei is listening to the majority

The whole concept of skill trees was made because there was a large outcry for progression outside of this forum.

Sometimes it's not about what individuals want but what is healthy for the long term of the many

You're forgetting that everyone on the forums is the minority.

And it really ain't that healthy for the long term of the game, this is a band-aid solution just like planar is, this isn't the end of stuff like this, mark my words.

2 hours ago, Comonavi said:

ok i've decided this is an elaborate troll and stopped reading, good day

I hope you enjoy disease 2 which are Brightshades, at least it has counterplay, right? Which is hiding Brightshades near your decorative plants so they don't get the heebie-jeebies 

[grm9]

23 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

Also I can't stand the beard hate train, wow he did something questionable years ago and you don't like his content = he is bad bad bad the worst of the worst, like tf?

nah he talks as slowly as he can to make the video as long as he can and spreads misinformation and pretty much just reads wiki pages on video for views and most thumbnails are clickbaits, using all damage buffs when trying to prove that willow is op is just stupid, wolfgang does the same amount of damage in a few hits and doesn't need to farm embers and you won't have full warbis buff at the start of a fight 

[Antynomity]

Just now, grm9 said:

nah he talks as slowly as he can to make the video as long as he can and spreads misinformation and pretty much just reads wiki pages on video for views and most thumbnails are clickbaits, using all damage buffs when trying to prove that willow is op is just stupid, wolfgang does the same amount of damage in a few hits and doesn't need to farm embers and you won't have full warbis buff at the start of a fight 

Then don't watch him and don't mention him if you think his videos suck, that's how he stays afloat, that's how YouTubers stay afloat, because they stay relevant.

[grm9]

40 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

Then don't watch him and don't mention him if you think his videos suck, that's how he stays afloat, that's how YouTubers stay afloat, because they stay relevant.

he was already mentioned at the start of the thread so everyone who didn't know about him and looked at the thread now know about him because surely they've checked at least the start of the thread, so me mentioning him in the same thread doesn't let more people know about him and the message is about his content being bad and discouraging others from watching it 

[Captain_Rage]

6 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Or maybe Klei is listening to the majority

The whole concept of skill trees was made because there was a large outcry for progression outside of this forum.

Sometimes it's not about what individuals want but what is healthy for the long term of the many

So for it has mostly been a vocal minority that whines until they get what they want, chuckle for a bit and then immediately grow tired of and stop playing the game and disappear forever. Can't say this is very wholesome for the people who enjoyed Don't Starve Together for the challenge and thrill.

The game was always split between players who would have a great time even when they perished or had to rebuild their base after getting whacked by mobs and the other authoritative people who would start rolling back their world because because they saw a Grass Tuft smolder even if it meant trashing and disrupting the gameplay of the other players on the server. Why cater to the latter to a degree that destroys the original experience?

[shaurun]

Are you playing DST solo or with a team? I'm just curios because I play solo as "they say OP" Maxwell and the game is difficult to me however I manage to kill bosses solo but it takes a lot of preparations and tries. + summer heat/winter cold/nightmare cicles/hound waves is still decent threat to me. I don't know maybe whe you play in team it's easy.

[Mike23Ua]

5 hours ago, Spino43 said:

Spamming "klei make a damn new game" isn't helping.

Even if your argument makes sense gameplay wise, dst is still a game with a rather big playerbase and bringing I believe a pretty big income to them. Asking them to basically ditch dst is like asking them shoot themselves in the foot. 

And things may change, people may  change. If you can't accept dst as it is, then maybe it's time to say farewell like the other guy on the dst discussion topic, or fund Klei to make a new ds game for your satisfaction.

 

I mean if you want my brutally honest opinion about it they don’t even necessarily have to create a new game, just change the way enemy mobs spawn in DST. For example the game I’m currently playing right now has this huge sprawling desert and random types of enemy mobs will spawn out from under the sand so each run through the desert is a unique experience.

DST having these rifts just spawn in and drop monsters out seems like the PERFECT set up for that, but the thing is.. There’s very few Rift Mobs, and they aren’t highly randomized.

Another thing that could help would be Ocean mobs that swim up from the ocean depths- Preferably mobs that are NOT completely passive until you provoke them first, But you get the idea..

Or even update the swamp so small mobs spawn out of its marsh like Flurp fish from Shipwrecked DLC

This would be one step in the right direction. 

Another thing that would help it immensely is more randomly generated world/content generation: Of course with a handful of limitations.

It wouldn’t be as hard as your making it seem, and Klei doesn’t have to completely scrap DST to accomplish it either-

Just offer up a different mode or preset that alters the games mechanics & behavior.

[Swiyss]

2 hours ago, shaurun said:

Are you playing DST solo or with a team? I'm just curios because I play solo as "they say OP" Maxwell and the game is difficult to me however I manage to kill bosses solo but it takes a lot of preparations and tries. + summer heat/winter cold/nightmare cicles/hound waves is still decent threat to me. I don't know maybe whe you play in team it's easy.

I do both, but mostly alone, and when you're on a team the game is 10x easier. But the fun thing about playing with a team is that everyone is different and strong in their own way, not just... "he has movespeed now I want movespeed" "he has damage now I want damage", brother you chose the character, if you wanna be like others just change your character to theirs and be happy. It's kinda the same as trying to be someone you aren't IRL, like skin color or face type. So if one character can do double damage that doesn't mean everyone needs that same amount of power, in the same category, the same way. But they should be relevant in one way or another.

We can't be like "omg this stupid guy picked THAT character, now he's going to be useless" with any character except Wes. Everyone has to be impactful in one way or another and in different forms.

Just now, Swiyss said:

I do both, but mostly alone, and when you're on a team the game is 10x easier. But the fun thing about playing with a team is that everyone is different and strong in their own way, not just... "he has movespeed now I want movespeed" "he has damage now I want damage", brother you chose the character, if you wanna be like others just change your character to theirs and be happy. It's kinda the same as trying to be someone you aren't IRL, like skin color or face type. So if one character can do double damage that doesn't mean everyone needs that same amount of power, in the same category, the same way. But they should be relevant in one way or another.

We can't be like "omg this stupid guy picked THAT character, now he's going to be useless" with any character except Wes. Everyone has to be impactful in one way or another and in different forms.

I mean I guess wes is good at moving quicker early game and farming fuel.

[shaurun]

8 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I do both, but mostly alone, and when you're on a team the game is 10x easier. But the fun thing about playing with a team is that everyone is different and strong in their own way, not just... "he has movespeed now I want movespeed" "he has damage now I want damage", brother you chose the character, if you wanna be like others just change your character to theirs and be happy. It's kinda the same as trying to be someone you aren't IRL, like skin color or face type. So if one character can do double damage that doesn't mean everyone needs that same amount of power, in the same category, the same way. But they should be relevant in one way or another.

We can't be like "omg this stupid guy picked THAT character, now he's going to be useless" with any character except Wes. Everyone has to be impactful in one way or another and in different forms.

So do you actually complain not because the game doesn't challenge you, but because everyone picks some particular character which they feel easy to play with?

[ansuman]

Year 2+ could sure use some new mechanics like fatigue disease infection on players anything to keep the game challenging. Making sleeping essential once a while to remove fatigue or crafting item to remove infection when hit by certain mobs

Like spider becoming poisonous or flowers spawing bugs instead of butter flies. Berry bushes/ crops getting attacked by crows

[Trips]

4 hours ago, Antynomity said:

The bigger picture is that we have went from wilson's measly buffs from affinities 'BeCaUsE hE's VaNiLlA' alongside some niche crafts to willow's strong spells in a game that USED to reward you ONLY for your knowledge, see you in 2 years for the skill tree reworks! I hope we keep getting these character updates so the game never evolves at this point

You're forgetting that everyone on the forums is the minority.

And it really ain't that healthy for the long term of the game, this is a band-aid solution just like planar is, this isn't the end of stuff like this, mark my words.

I hope you enjoy disease 2 which are Brightshades, at least it has counterplay, right? Which is hiding Brightshades near your decorative plants so they don't get the heebie-jeebies 

What the heck is evolution to you? To me it sounds like what you regard as evolution is whatever Klei adds that you actually like, since to me it seems like the game is changing per update.

[GenomeSquirrel]

4 hours ago, Antynomity said:

How is that a good thing? Trivialise content pre-rifts when rifts have barely any content and won't have w good tangible, challenging and engaging long-term gameplay loop?  

If that's actually the case I'm not long for this game, I'm not waiting 3 years for the rifts to have half of the content the pre-rifts part of the game has.

I'm no propagandist, I'm going with the flow.

I personally enjoy this as a cozy coop farming game with combat as a side thing if you're bored enough, and can completely avoid with a few trap set ups.

But trivializing killing spiders is a really low bar, something we've been doing for a long time now.

As far as trivializing other content, I have no strong feelings, I play more streamlined games when I want a challenge, I could see value in speeding up the post rift content ASAP, that is presumably where we'd find more plot and where they'd put in the more challenging new enemies.

[arubaro]

10 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Intelligent and smart people were the top 1% while the stupid majority were 60% of people, and because they didn't listen to the old players and smart ones, the game just made 80% of the fan base angry about it.

i wonder who considers to be part of that 1%

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

i wonder who considers to be part of that 1%

They didn't "consider" themselves to be that 1%, it was a competitive game. And everyone had the possibility to be where they were. They were just built different.

In that specific context of course.

[Guille6785]

8 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Not once have I seen a "this game needs skill trees" suggestion, nevermind one that would attract a following.

Except that after the wilson skill tree got added there was, in fact, a decent chunk of people that requested skill trees (I myself was open to the idea), and there were even fairly big youtubers that made videos discussing that exact possibility, and for a while there was quite a following for the concept if you ask me

either you've been living under a rock and legitimately never saw anybody request skill trees or you're trying to rewrite history just to push your argument

[Mysterious box]

Skill trees are simply one of the biggest things in gaming because they're easy and don't take as much care as making things flow more organically and as fun as they can be to mess with one thing I will say is I feel like it's generally not the best idea to introduce them in a game with a large cast because it often falls flat in the some core areas even if people can overlook them. For one it's impossible to make a large cast's skill trees truely unique when there's too many chefs in the kitchen. Another issue that comes up is there's always one proper way to build a skill tree even if you could hypothetically choose worse builds you can even see it happen in the beta as the days have gone on nearly every person is using the same build for Willow because it's the build that offers the most value and a similar story plays out for Woodie. It's kind of a illusion of choice  unless every option is equal or there are risks involved in the better options.

[Swiyss]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Skill trees are simply one of the biggest things in gaming because they're easy and don't take as much care as making things flow more organically and as fun as they can be to mess with one thing I will say is I feel like it's generally not the best idea to introduce them in a game with a large cast because it often falls flat in the some core areas even if people can overlook them. For one it's impossible to make a large cast's skill trees truely unique when there's too many chefs in the kitchen. Another issue that comes up is there's always one proper way to build a skill tree even if you could hypothetically choose worse builds you can even see it happen in the beta as the days have gone on nearly every person is using the same build for Willow because it's the build that offers the most value and a similar story plays out for Woodie. It's kind of a illusion of choice  unless every option is equal or there are risks involved in the better options.

yeah, unfortunately it's a big scam right now, or at least looks like it. but if they can make you choose either 1 thing or another then it would feel more open to choices.

the thing they did with wormwood being able to choose the BS armor and weapon(vine) perks while ALSO being able to choose bulbous/saladmander made the whole tree idea useless. 

[Mysterious box]

9 hours ago, Antynomity said:

Also I can't stand the beard hate train, wow he did something questionable years ago and you don't like his content = he is bad bad bad the worst of the worst, like tf?

Honestly the air here has been pretty bad for awhile people keep trying to shutdown conversations with personal attacks with some even encouraging it, people are mocking people who have long since left the community, holding a eternal grudge against beard, and even taking any chance they get to take pot shots at specific mod devs, and anyone who even slightly disagrees with the collective it's a hostile environment for sure and it's definitely becoming one of the bad communities.

8 hours ago, Antynomity said:

see you in 2 years for the skill tree reworks! I hope we keep getting these character updates so the game never evolves at this point

For better or worse this is definitely going to happen it's how games stay popular when they reach this point they either rework a character every so often to freshen them up or they just endlessly keep releasing new characters the latter of which would definitely be harder for a game like don't starve since they need to justify every new addition so they don't cause a lore hiccup like Warframe for example.

Even outside the forums I've seen a non small amount of people who care not at all for the post rift content and just want Klei to focus on the skill trees people are more interested in the godlike powers than the new content itself on average. To go back to some examples of other games Warframe for example it started as a game with a higher focus on teamwork, stealth, and your characters had limits and unique roles fast forward today and that's been replaced with a game where basically every warframe plays completely the same but with a different theming slaughting hordes at a click of a single button with some of the "bad" warframes being those who don't nuke multiple targets at once as 1 hit killing hordes became the name of the game and content outside of that became simply the filler you used to make your warframe stronger and show off just how powerful you are don't get me wrong though the game is still fun and it definitely got more popular for going down this route by a ton as it went from people not knowing what the game was to it becoming more commonly known for awhile and I personally see dst heading down that exact same path for better or worse after all many people became aware of dst specifically due to the character refreshes and the hype they generated.

[Swiyss]

5 hours ago, shaurun said:

So do you actually complain not because the game doesn't challenge you, but because everyone picks some particular character which they feel easy to play with?

no, that's not what I meant to say. What I mean is that every character has a different thing they are good at, and that's totally how the game SHOULD work.

It's just that some feature being added are making old mechanics, resources, ideas and characters outdaded just for the sake of "late game" and "you don't know the full picture yet". However the game shouldn't feel unfinished and unbalanced for 2 years until we actually see the full picture, for them to create another arc in less than 6 months to make everything unbalanced again. Why not make a steady rise instead of bigs ups and downs all the time?(planar damage promised that, and yet the game still is all over the place now) every single update should feel somewhat done in it's own way, and THEN when new stuff comes out, the changes that take part in changing the fundamentals should come TOGETHER, not separated.

skill trees are kinda unfinished, characters without skillsets feel unfinished too. new items and bosses feel redundant and creates a rude interlude for the game's fundamentals. new objectives have little to no replayability. and megabasing it's being more and more encouraged, with hardly some creativity involved outside of creating new worlds and doing everything all over again, but now with the new unfinished content. Some things feel off yn?

Just now, Swiyss said:

bosses feel redundant and creates a rude interlude for the game's fundamentals

although very good by design, and I mean VERY good, they give you nothing but different ways to do the same things, but easier. except for the polar bearger, which was THE best addition in recent years imo

[Szczuku]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

Except that after the wilson skill tree got added there was, in fact, a decent chunk of people that requested skill trees (I myself was open to the idea), and there were even fairly big youtubers that made videos discussing that exact possibility, and for a while there was quite a following for the concept if you ask me

??

These are suggestions made after skill trees officialy became part of dst

And if I remember correctly a pretty common argument in favour of skill trees was that "Klei wouldn't put this much effort into UI for a single character"

I was talking about ye olden days of 2018-2022, or maybe even 2017 as I'm pretty sure progression was being requested even earlier than that, skill trees - not.