Klei please listen. The "survival" aspect of the game is dying slowly.

[GimplyGoose]

9 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I argue that you cannot master the game with 20+hours of gameplay.

I think the game is way more complex than that. I think that the actual aspects of the game that are hard to master take up to 90 hours.

how are you gonna master wagstaff minigame in 20 hours? and know every single name of the tools he needs?

I specifically mentioned the survival aspects of the game, which you mentioned in the title of this post. I am not arguing that the game can be mastered in 20 hours, but the survival elements can: hunger, health, sanity, temperature, wetness.

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Trips said:

if hounds attack in summer and autumn, and something silly happens where a red hound dies near flammable structures? that's on me because the game clearly conveys that hounds are going to attack. same thing with giants like deerclops and bearger, the game doesn't just spawn them in the middle of your base without warning because that feels terrible. 

if you left your base for too long and you very reliable and easy acces most important resource in the game got a desease it's on me.

Just now, GimplyGoose said:

I specifically mentioned the survival aspects of the game, which you mentioned in the title of this post. I am not arguing that the game can be mastered in 20 hours, but the survival elements can: hunger, health, sanity, temperature, wetness.

okay, so If I can understand the survival aspects of the game, and learn all seasons, I can survive indefinetely, right? That doesn't take 20 hours, it takes atleas 100 to 200 hours depending on the person, thats a hard game my friend, and if they killed this progression to make things optional and just now are creating this so called "late game" by making your ability to reach "late game" completely ruin the foundation of survival then good luck with having fun with your modded character

I think they wanna make it easier to reach late game, so they're making the characters op with skill tree

but the whole IDEA of planar damage is not being respected

we can have planar damage day 1 now. but planar damage was supposed to be the same against regular mobs, and effective against late game mobs. that is not the case now

they implemented the right idea, but are not respecting the idea.

[grm9]

19 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

yes, wolfgang strong bla bla bla. but he's supposed to be strong DUH. that's his design. so he's meant to be what he was born to be DUH.

wormwood having late game vines with BS gear is kinda fine, but pair that with a super easier way to manage my blooming(it's a no brainer now compared to what it was) and the third hit proc on bramble husk that makes him a fighter already, that shouldn't be the case.

vines give you 17 more damage on hit on average while bramble husk procs give 7.5 without planar entity protection, blooming is mostly irrelevant since new enemies don't require speedboosts, he's still worse than wolfgang/wanda/maxwell and doesn't have other useful perks aside from gardening which you won't do solo if you're rushing bosses and primarily doing combat and bramble traps 

15 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

yet, the thing still does 500 damage at the cost of killing fuelweaver and getting 5 embers

it saves less time than getting a ham bat, since you need to spend a lot of time to get enough embers to kill a boss using it 

[GenomeSquirrel]

11 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

so you're saying everything is op because we can't see the new "challenges" along the way?

so what about the 10 different resources being useless with 1 single thing they added in the game? (brightshade gear)

I complained about this future when I thought there was time to go back, but the future is now the present..

I complained many times that this path is running in circles to stay in place, I thought a unique charm of this game was being able to find something as strong as a tentacle spike, and the spike remains a solid choice during all parts of the game.

but the game is 10 year old, and the megabosses already send you on a scavenger hunt all over the world, and the best weapons and armor are extremely difficult to make getting alternatives worth my time, I could understand forced obsolesce, but I'm self aware and experienced enough to know that I personally don't like it.

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

While I do agree you should know there's never going to be a threat that requires the power we get simply because by that logic Wilson and Wes would need to be raised to that same level to compete for example these are more so just going to be tools to ease the burden of slightly harder content like brightshades.

i think powercreep will also go into weapons, armor, and damaging items too, there will be some way for a lone Wes to beat it for sure

[Swiyss]

10 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

yep getting swarmed by 100 spiders is something that totally happens in this game all the time, the game is surely getting easier

no, it doesn't happen all the time, it surely hardly happens, but what if you wanna clear a rocky biome with willow? You just have to press 1 button and boom. you're done, but if you play wilson, the casual advantages that you get by playing wilson don't match that stupidity of a spell, and never will.

if wilson was the start of the skill tree, why are we getting so many overpowered things that can't get even close to what we have now?

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, GenomeSquirrel said:

i think powercreep will also go into weapons, armor, and damaging items too, there will be some way for a lone Wes to beat it for sure

It no doubt will but your overestimating how far we'll allow Klei to let enemies scale up.

Again I'm not saying the current direction needs to change or that I'm mad about it I'm saying I changed my expectations for this game and to not expect the world from Klei they're humans too.

[Swiyss]

they need to either change wilson skill tree to give him more crafts or reduce this willow spell damage overpoweredness

 

[Guille6785]

1 minute ago, Swiyss said:

no, it doesn't happen all the time, it surely hardly happens, but what if you wanna clear a rocky biome with willow?

this is not survival

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Swiyss said:

they need to either change wilson skill tree to give him more crafts or reduce this willow spell damage overpoweredness

 

This would just make Willow less desirable vs the rest of the cast post skill tree though I do agree Wilson needs another look.

[Swiyss]

The whole issue is that, they are releasing the game bit by bit, so it's hard to know what's coming

Just now, Mysterious box said:

This would just make Willow less desirable vs the rest of the cast post skill tree though I do agree Wilson needs another look.

every. single. character. needs. a reason. to be picked. 

every single character need to be good at something, and bad at other things. or have a different playstyle than the usual.

Right now willow is just a random magic overpowered girl. Why can't we make her do regular damage against current creatures and later on the new stuff do normal damage? whats so hard about that?

we currently don't have this in the game, and even before skill trees.

i'm not comparing willow to current maxwell nor wendy cause they didn't get their skill tree yet.

but if we're gonna compare willow, which is supposed to be this pyromaniac, having a bunch of black and blue fire by day 1 that ruins the experience of the survival aspect of the game, then we're in big trouble,

Why didn't klei just made the current survival worlds just, harder after opening rifts? The game feels super easy now. And I know I can't see the future, but if the future ruins the present then what's the point of making and balancing the entire game the last years? are we gonna take everything we did and throw it in the trash bin because the current things willow have ruin them?

why. cant. we. lock. this weird late game stuff. behind. opening. rifts. that's the question, why day 1?

[Mike23Ua]

I actually disagree with you on this one, Klei HAS been adding new survival content into DST, in fact I’d go so far as to say that ANY new content update adds new survival content into DST..

The issue is that it represents itself in such a way that it only challenges you when you actively go out of your way to be challenged by it.

The BIGGEST Offenders in this Category are Bosses which is a shame so much of the game focuses on them.

But there are other factors that contribute to it as well, such as content being constrained to limited areas throughout the game- A good example of this is Ocean Content, for me it feels like you will only encounter RockJaw sharks if you go out of your way to search for & interact with them, and more importantly then that, instead of consistently trying to wreck you or your boat, they’ll eventually get distracted and go off to leave you alone.

Cookie Cutters: As much as I hate them.. only exist around Salt Formations.

But this is the OCEAN we should have random Aquatic mobs spawning seemingly from out of nowhere just roaming about the otherwise mostly empty ocean.

The reason people can’t find survival challenges beyond optional content, is because there isn’t much that actively comes to challenge Us.

im not saying that DST should become a full blown tower defense game..

But maybe it wouldn’t hurt if for once we didn’t know WHAT was about to pour out of those rifts, or what type of weather we will have for a season?

(such as blizzards in Winter or what mobs temporarily spawn to take up residence for the season)

Instead of being able to count exactly how many days and then get visual/audio warnings of our next hound wave.

[Swiyss]

why do we have to ruin our current experience of dst because the game is not "fully released yet". If you're gonna do this, I would be better waiting even 2 YEARS for a good implementation of the update rather then having random overpowered and reused sprites every month or so.

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Swiyss said:

Every since diseases were removed

i stopped reading here. How was that challenging?

[Swiyss]

Just now, arubaro said:

i stopped reading here. How was that challenging?

I never ever even connected with any community by the time they were added. I used to play dst constantly and offline alone from the time it came out and for the time they removed it. I didn't have any other opinions of anyone about it. I didn't discussed the idea on forums. The only thing I did was to overcome this difficulty. and it felt amazingly great to learn the patterns and how to manage it.

then they removed it. and I tought that all my hard work overcoming this issue and learning this little thing that happened in my plantation now is useless.

they didn't change it, they didn't nerf it.

they just simply removed it.

it was the WORST thing they did in the game since beggining of DS from that current era. And I played through ALL the updates.

Don't starve is the ONLY game that I went out of my way to learn and actually master. And now a simple decision made all my work useless

 

So I don't want them to make the same mistake and REMOVE the willows perk after showing it to us. I want it to be nerfed early game. and could be EVEN STRONGER after opening rifts I don't even care that much.

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

The only thing I did was to overcome this difficulty. and it felt amazingly great to learn the patterns and how to manage it

by over come this difficulty you mean picking all the grass and twigs as possible and by amazinling to learn patters you mean to just ignore character quotes warning you about infested plants (which was a vague and the unique warning before the plant was completely lost) because anyway you could shove everything while you are in the caves during summer just to replant everything again in autumn??

wow, so much difficulty

such skill

much fun

srly, some users needs to play other games than dst and other uncreative sand boxes with "survival" elements...

[Swiyss]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

by over come this difficulty you mean picking all the grass and twigs as possible and by amazinling to learn patters you mean to just ignore character quotes warning you about infested plants (which was a vague and the unique warning before the plant was completely lost) because anyway you could shove everything while you are in the caves during summer just to replant everything again in autumn??

wow, so much difficulty

such skill

much fun

srly, some users needs to play other games than dst and other uncreative sand boxes with "survival" elements...

I realized they were rotting

I separaded them a bit

I could have more clear vision

I could see the flies

I checked them from time to time

and for 400+ days. none were sick

that's the price of having easy (MOST IMPORTANT RESOURCE IN THE GAME BTW) access right next to you

today we have.... well........................... an eye crystalizer kit which counter withering in a super large area, and disease is gone.

brightshade were easy day 1 on the beta I encountered them.

still, brightshades are a good thing, cause it would be too easy to have these farms all over the place, but yeah. I want more difficulty, so what I did? made them appear more in the settings.

still easy compared to disease

diseases were suuuuper cool design

[Yuuko]

Beard video and disease comments aside - it does seem odd that Willow's spells benefit from lightning and chili.  Maybe chili spice would be okay... but certainly not lightning.  Her damage is already typed - its fire, or cold fire.  It should not also be lightning.  This should definitely get removed.

Otherwise I think her spells are good - big and impactful.  The only thing I think needs to happen is cap her at 1 stack of embers, same as Wortox is capped for souls.

I mean - the game is going high power at this point and no whining is going to change that.  Not that we shouldn't give feedback, but the direction is to empower every character and ramp up combat challenges to match.  Its a big can of worms, but Klei has opened it up and started delivering the trophallaxis to us in these patches.  Ever since Wendy the refreshes were already heading to high powered game play.  It really started mattering to me with Wes, who was one of my favorite and most played characters - it just felt wrong giving him any perks...  Then we got Wanda's release, and the Wicker and Maxwell refreshes...  Coming back and adding skill trees, and all of the planar stuff too - its all about scaling up the game like an RPG.

tbh I don't like it.  I prefer the game to be more flatly balanced.  Rogue likes that have no meta scaling - where its purely a test of your skill and adaptability to what you find - are my absolute favorites and for a long time DST fit that niche for me.  Obviously its moving away from that now, but the game is still fun.  I still love the new characters.  I'm not looking to leave even though I'm highly critical of this whole arc we're currently in.  I'll probably just find another niche, no meta-scaling roguelike to get into for when I want that back.

[Swiyss]

Just now, Shosuko said:

Beard video and disease comments aside - it does seem odd that Willow's spells benefit from lightning and chili.  Maybe chili spice would be okay... but certainly not lightning.  Her damage is already typed - its fire, or cold fire.  It should not also be lightning.  This should definitely get removed.

Otherwise I think her spells are good - big and impactful.  The only thing I think needs to happen is cap her at 1 stack of embers, same as Wortox is capped for souls.

I mean - the game is going high power at this point and no whining is going to change that.  Not that we shouldn't give feedback, but the direction is to empower every character and ramp up combat challenges to match.  Its a big can of worms, but Klei has opened it up and started delivering the trophallaxis to us in these patches.  Ever since Wendy the refreshes were already heading to high powered game play.  It really started mattering to me with Wes, who was one of my favorite and most played characters - it just felt wrong giving him any perks...  Then we got Wanda's release, and the Wicker and Maxwell refreshes...  Coming back and adding skill trees, and all of the planar stuff too - its all about scaling up the game like an RPG.

tbh I don't like it.  I prefer the game to be more flatly balanced.  Rogue likes that have no meta scaling - where its purely a test of your skill and adaptability to what you find - are my absolute favorites and for a long time DST fit that niche for me.  Obviously its moving away from that now, but the game is still fun.  I still love the new characters.  I'm not looking to leave even though I'm highly critical of this whole arc we're currently in.  I'll probably just find another niche, no meta-scaling roguelike to get into for when I want that back.

ok, now explain to me. what did this stupid youtuber did wrong? why are so many people mad about this?

seriously what did this guy do?

[Yuuko]

8 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

ok, now explain to me. what did this stupid youtuber did wrong? why are so many people mad about this?

For me - I hate his voice, and how he always swings at the fences to make everything seem like THE MOST OP OMG WTF ASDLKJFA;LKEDRJ;ALJWSERF;A thing.  Its very annoying b/c his content catches a lot of people with the clickbait and his energy, but his videos are not the most informative or interesting.  I think he also had some drama for content theft or something - idk I can't speak to that.  I just get annoyed and disappointed with most of his videos b/c of his obnoxious forced presenter voice and misinformation.

[GenomeSquirrel]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

It no doubt will but your overestimating how far we'll allow Klei to let enemies scale up.

Again I'm not saying the current direction needs to change or that I'm mad about it I'm saying I changed my expectations for this game and to not expect the world from Klei they're humans too.

I might be in a mood, I fought fuelweaver solo for the first time, and even ready with a teleport staff and a piles of mushrooms, it felt leagues hard than I remembered (probably a sign the other people did most of the work way back)

[Swiyss]

Just now, Shosuko said:

For me - I hate his voice, and how he always swings at the fences to make everything seem like THE MOST OP OMG WTF ASDLKJFA;LKEDRJ;ALJWSERF;A thing.  Its very annoying b/c his content catches a lot of people with the clickbait and his energy, but his videos are not the most informative or interesting.  I think he also had some drama for content theft or something - idk I can't speak to that.  I just get annoyed and disappointed with most of his videos b/c of his obnoxious forced presenter voice and misinformation.

now that I see, his voice is kinda weird and he talks in a difference pace then most people.

I wanted to keep on topic, but this is kinda ON TOPIC cause i posted his video, so credit to him

damn, these allegations are bad, hope no one lost too much money or trust with this.

I think I don't care that much about his voice because english is not my first language, so for me I can't notice anything about the voice or remember anything like it, or the cultural difference that you may have that is connected to this style of talking might remind you of something bad, and I don't have that. 

 

[arubaro]

19 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

what did this stupid youtuber did wrong?

so many things like stealing content

[Yuuko]

10 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

now that I see, his voice is kinda weird and he talks in a difference pace then most people.

I wanted to keep on topic, but this is kinda ON TOPIC cause i posted his video, so credit to him

damn, these allegations are bad, hope no one lost too much money or trust with this.

I think I don't care that much about his voice because english is not my first language, so for me I can't notice anything about the voice or remember anything like it, or the cultural difference that you may have that is connected to this style of talking might remind you of something bad, and I don't have that. 

 

I think the subject of his video here - and that we are still in a beta where this is the case - his video is not off topic for your post.  It just brings bad vibes.

What he showed - that Willow can stack damage multipliers for her spells - is something I did not know, and I do feel this is too much.  I think we can say - without even challenging the direction Klei is going - that these spells are already strong enough and do not need to allow extra damage modifiers.

I am concerned that people will exaggerate how OP the spells are, and Klei will over-nerf Willow leaving her a lackluster option.  They have done this before - overreacting and nerfing too much b/c of community feedback exaggerating the problems.

I think - it is definitely a problem to let Willow stack damage multipliers, and probably having unlimited embers in her inventory to spam spells non-stop is a bit much, even if it does take her time to get the embers.  But if we cut damage bonuses like lightning type, and cap her to 1 stack of embers, her spells are good as they are and do not need any nerf.

[Captain_Rage]

Listen, survival is a relative term in this game at this point (or has always been), but having silly abilities on every character that kills everything with minimal effort, no risk or planning is simply boring.

[Arcwell]

11 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

ok, now explain to me. what did this stupid youtuber did wrong? why are so many people mad about this?

seriously what did this guy do?

among other things,
He has a tendency to blow things out of proportion to make things seem much stronger than they would otherwise normally be. Frankly I think this post is echoing a lot of that 'blowing out of proportion'.
It is very easy to look at a video like that and assume Willow's lunar flame deals insane DPS, but in reality it deals less DPS than a dark sword:
(The DPS value here is not 100% accurate because it rounds speed to the nearest decimal, but it's enough to show that lunar fire deals less)