Were the forums always like this?

[Maxil20]

From my experience, the forums have usually been pretty same-y. Might be slightly more negative due to the new updates, but not overwhelmingly so.

I think the main issue is people like to phrase posts in ways to get the most attention, mostly negatively. For a recent example, Instead of writing a topic that sounds normal and is expected of what you click on (EX: The Fossils from the fuelweaver skeleton should be assembled correctly at the gateway consistently) they instead write the title as “This is Bad Game design”, which insights people to click on it and generally perceives the post in a negative way. This isn’t very new, and has occurred, many, many, many times before.

But overall, I would say it isn’t a super negative experience. While negative posts are here and there, I think they are fine, provided they follow the guidelines and don’t directly attack people/devs, because that’s just harassment at that point. And if that does happen, we have a handy report option that usually addresses any concerns of that type.

I will say I do appreciate that most other communities have been faring well themselves. I remember during the ANR era I used to actively discourage myself from joining most topics relating to DST because of how constant meta discussion was done and how practically no other conversations were really tolerated back then without being severely remarked on. It was quite bad. These days, it still happens, but isn’t overwhelmingly so, which is good.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why can’t we get world Gen toggles that make the game react or play in a completely different way??

Such as & this is just a few examples:

A harder difficulty option where perhaps the player can’t build permanent solutions to all the games weather hazards.

A new way of exploring the world by having the biomes separated when generating a new game world into Archipelago Islands requiring more boat use, or even mountains slopes and hill sides so you’ll need to navigate up, over, or around the map..

Less focus on raid bosses, more focus on world exploration & adding an actual Adventures Mode campaign.

because devs don't want to spend time entirely separate from the normal game and keep balancing things for those modes along with the normal mode and segment the community even more than mods already do, with almost no people playing without mods and most of them playing with a different combination of mods in comparison to other people?

[Mike23Ua]

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because devs don't want to spend time entirely separate from the normal game and keep balancing things for those modes along with the normal mode and segment the community even more than mods already do, with almost no people playing without mods and most of them playing with a different combination of mods in comparison to other people?

You would have a point.. if Klei wasn’t doing exactly that already, believe it or not.. they still have to balance the game around the modes they’ve provided for it-

Which is why you will sometimes see patch notes fix or change things for PvP Mode or Lights Out Mode, they even had to code Pearl so she’s Nocturnal on Lights Out Mode just because what was designed for “Default” Mode, didn’t work at all under another option.

Klei did not design the world Gen preset “A taste of Terraria” but it’s still in the game, so IF Klei ends up adding content that breaks that experience such as for example: newer content like Lunar Hail & Acid Rain being far more destructive then Klei intended it to be to the point that it makes this Terraria dev created Preset unenjoyable, Klei will need to backtrack and look at fixing this preset by doing something like reducing the frequency of Lunar/Acid rains that under normal settings would otherwise be tied to how often it rains.

With features like Lights Out Mode existing, Klei should go back and look into how they can improve those modes.. for example maybe adding some Maxwell Lights from solo Don’t starved story Mode so the players can Navigate the map without exhausting all resources.

(perhaps grass and twigs can respawn more frequently around the Maxwell lights so players who Join an in progress lights out mode world, don’t die immediately..?)

Thats just one example.

[Primalflower]

The klei forums (more accurately, the don't starve/together sections of the klei forums, as sections outside of that have a significantly different culture) have always been a strikingly negative place where people get into fights often and there are just generally a lot of really scary people. Other game communities are not like how we are. But nowadays i think absolutely there has been remarkable and significant amounts of vitreol, around a bit before from beyond, maybe a little earlier than that. it's pretty crazy in here and i would run things a fair bit differently  than how they're going now.

[Dextops]

The biggest problem with forums is the length of posts. 20 words or less people, come on!

[grm9]

50 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

You would have a point.. if Klei wasn’t doing exactly that already, believe it or not.. they still have to balance the game around the modes they’ve provided for it-

Which is why you will sometimes see patch notes fix or change things for PvP Mode or Lights Out Mode, they even had to code Pearl so she’s Nocturnal on Lights Out Mode just because what was designed for “Default” Mode, didn’t work at all under another option.

Klei did not design the world Gen preset “A taste of Terraria” but it’s still in the game, so IF Klei ends up adding content that breaks that experience such as for example: newer content like Lunar Hail & Acid Rain being far more destructive then Klei intended it to be to the point that it makes this Terraria dev created Preset unenjoyable, Klei will need to backtrack and look at fixing this preset by doing something like reducing the frequency of Lunar/Acid rains that under normal settings would otherwise be tied to how often it rains.

With features like Lights Out Mode existing, Klei should go back and look into how they can improve those modes.. for example maybe adding some Maxwell Lights from solo Don’t starved story Mode so the players can Navigate the map without exhausting all resources.

(perhaps grass and twigs can respawn more frequently around the Maxwell lights so players who Join an in progress lights out mode world, don’t die immediately..?)

Thats just one example.

lights out and pvp (assuming they're even balancing things for it, iirc you can still stunlock people with electric damage or just win if you have ranged stugg that can't miss like darts or flute) wouldn't need as many changes as the things you've suggested and almost no one plays those modes anyway because most people try to make the game easier instead of harder 

[BalkanCockroach]

2 minutes ago, Dextops said:

The biggest problem with forums is the length of posts. 20 words or less people, come on!

Careful there, only had only 4 words left.

[Mike23Ua]

38 minutes ago, grm9 said:

lights out and pvp (assuming they're even balancing things for it, iirc you can still stunlock people with electric damage or just win if you have ranged stugg that can't miss like darts or flute) wouldn't need as many changes as the things you've suggested and almost no one plays those modes anyway because most people try to make the game easier instead of harder 

Why do I get the feeling you would be one of those type of people who would want Zero Build mode removed from Fortnite just because fewer people play said mode?

I wouldn’t play Fortnite at all if I was forced to play with build mode turned on, so even though many many many MANY Fortnite players wanted them to Remove Zero Build, I for one am Thankful the devs opt’d NOT to remove the only way I actually enjoy playing the game.

Just because 90% of players turn off Wildfires, doesn’t mean Klei couldn’t add a “More Often” option for the 10% of people who enjoy playing with them toggled on. So while these forums literally erupt with “Remove Wildfires” “Rework Wildfires” “give me X, X , & Y to combat against wildfires!” There actually still IS an option to have them happen even more often because thankfully Klei did not listen to all the players crying to remove them.

[Szczuku]

So what if people complain?

Clearly there are reasons for them to complain.

[Retepeter]

Alright so I read most replies and this is gonna sound a bit rude but please don't get offended

 

I feel like the forums are kinda... ecotistical? If that's the right word

I feel like people don't really consider other's points (I'm guilty of this myself) and kinda just keep saying I am right, you are wrong, like what if someone likes planar? What if some people think its a good mechanic to prevent powercreep and makes the game intresting?

Don't get me wrong I love that Klei takes this place seriously but I feel like that has added fuel to the fire of people feeling that the game should add/remove/change things that they think would fit in and not everyone in the community

I'm also not against discussion, or negativity. They're good in moderation but the negativity (an people comparing klei and dst to things they just aren't) definately feels like its out of hand at this point

 

I'm also aware that negativity spreads faster then positivity, obviously people who agree with you don't comment "Wow so true bestie", at best they react to your post but people who disagree will explain why you're wrong. Obviously it works like this but still, it just feels overwhelming (I think for this reason a negative emote isn't bad, I personally would feel less offended by 15 thumbs downs/confuseds then 3 comments calling me out but different discussion, would prefer not to get off topic)

[Catteflyterpill]

29 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

So what if people complain?

Clearly there are reasons for them to complain.

I think the big issue is how people complain. Criticisms against the game or its direction are very important to its health, but some people just post things that feel more inflammatory or divisive. @Maxil20's point about clickbait-y posts I think is a good example. Saying that something is objectively wrong or objectively bad design isn't really all that helpful, it doesn't facilitate conversation and more perspectives which I think is what the forums are about. 

[Retepeter]

5 minutes ago, Catteflyterpill said:

I think the big issue is how people complain. Criticisms against the game or its direction are very important to its health, but some people just post things that feel more inflammatory or divisive. @Maxil20's point about clickbait-y posts I think is a good example. Saying that something is objectively wrong or objectively bad design isn't really all that helpful, it doesn't facilitate conversation and more perspectives which I think is what the forums are about. 

so true bestie!!!

[Yuuko]

25 minutes ago, Retepeter said:

I feel like the forums are kinda... ecotistical? If that's the right word

I feel like people don't really consider other's points (I'm guilty of this myself) and kinda just keep saying I am right, you are wrong, like what if someone likes planar? What if some people think its a good mechanic to prevent powercreep and makes the game intresting?

 

When two people argue publicly it is not important that either of them change their opinions.  What is important is which other people are persuaded by either of them.  I can repeat myself for a number of reasons - maybe someone made the same point to which I disagree, or maybe I want to clarify how I made the point before, it could be possible I want to change my view - as long as I'm not getting personal that is all okay.  It doesn't cost Klei much to host a 50 page thread about planar damage even if its the same few points bounced around in loop by a dozen people.  Provided we're talking about the points of the game we disagree on rather than dumping on each other personally or getting spiteful its all okay.  Undecided people, as well as Klei can read all of that they wish to and make their own comments, or not.

Also planar didn't prevent power creep.  The new planar weapons are numerical superior to non-planar weapons in all cases where a character has a skill tree, and many where they do not.  Power creep happened with this update.  If someone says "planar is a good mechanic to prevent powercreep" I see no reason not to point that it didn't.  I even made graphs.

Spoiler

If someone wants to repeat their claim I can easily repeat my reply.  If they want to take a different angle we can go that way too.  I've approached this topic from several angles and definitely found some feedback that got me reevaluating some aspects of it.

[Auth]

Been here a while. The forums kind of go through the same periods, over and over, the only change being the people doing it as they come and go from the community. Any time I find myself thinking "Man, the forums were so much better when-" I can pretty much always then remember that it's just some rose-tinted glasses. The only actually bad period on the forums was when they got rid of status updates, obviously.

However, they are also a place to get a very good understanding of the game, and for the most part, have pretty stable and understandable conversations and people. It can be quite enlightening to read posts or complaints from users that aren't necessarily aligned with how you play the game. That and some of you guys are absolutely hilarious and very charming. I love it here, because I skim through most every thread that gets posted to general discussion. The majority is honestly just people sharing their points and views in a rational way and respectfully agreeing or disagreeing through reactions or replies. However, if you're only going to stick around the hot threads, then yeah, you're going to end up seeing the negativity more often. I feel that's just the nature of the internet as a whole, though.

However, the problem is and always has stemmed simply from unconstructive feedback. It's pretty clear to see that the person going into a thread and wrapping up whatever the OP's point was into a comeback of effectively "Nuh-Uh!" was never here for an intelligent criticism in the first place. It's important to not confuse the flimsy contrarian posts with the people that genuinely have feedback on something either Klei or another user has made. Unfortunately some people can't, whether it be because tone can't be discerned through the internet or because they're having a bad day, and that's usually what ends up causing these spirals into madness you see every once in a while. If you ever come across something that you believe is genuinely unconstructive or is just there to dogpile or insult a user, I'd just recommend reporting the post, writing exactly that in the report, and moving on. 

Whenever I disagree with something, I'm always trying to weigh all the options, and specifically try to think of situations that I might not even personally come across, just for the sake of making the conversation/idea/suggestion feel more rounded out. There's been a handful of times where someone has disagreed with me and it showed me something I would've genuinely never thought of, so my opinion was changed. Sometimes I like to sit around and pretend that most people are rational like that.

I always try to keep the language that I use respectful, although I'm aware that because I write a lot of my posts in a far more technical way, it doesn't always come across that way. There's not really anything I can do about that besides apologize to users if they ever misinterpret what I say. The few times that's happened, I've found it's immediately de-escalated the conversation, and me and the other user can even have some good back-and-forths and come to good middle grounds or new understandings. I live for that, it's probably the #1 reason why I like the forums. I feel if other people just tried to keep themselves civil and open to conversation more, this would be avoided more often. However it's the internet, and like I said, the forums have always been like this.

I disagree with the current direction of the game, and have had issues with a great number of changes since the second update of RoT, and even more recently. I don't make it a secret, but I also don't go around wanting other people to blindly absorb my ideology. Whenever feedback should be presented, it should be presented simply as personal interpretation, never as objective fact. I don't post about my gripes and groans very often because I've been fully aware from the observations of having been here so long that my particular opinions and writing style would just encourage the contrarian people to just come in and try to shut it down, acting like they just did an epic mic drop, when their argument almost always boils down to "Well, doesn't effect me, so, why should I care, it doesn't matter" There have always been people like this (Just writing this brings old names to mind. Eugh.) and I've just personally hit the limit of my patience with them, so I don't bother. I feel there's a lot of people that feel the same way, and maybe only reinforce posts they like through reactions or replies to others rather than making posts themselves. I think it's important to remember that a lot of people on the forums are almost completely silent in most situations, look at ratios in reactions/poll votes compared to posts on threads for example. The difference is pretty notable when a poll can have 200 user votes but only 30 replies between 12 or so users.

At the end of the day, if you think there's something wrong with the forums, or that they need fixing, nobody's stopping you from making a difference. You can be that shining beacon of civil discussion and friendliness if you want, you can report unconstructive posts, you can block the users with a million words but nothing to say, and you can keep your head out of flame wars and dogpile discussions. Make yourself into a reflection of the sentiments you'd like to see on the forums and in the community, and you'll find a lot of people coming around and listening to what you have to say.

[HowlVoid]

They should open up an arena at Klei headquarters tbh.

I'd fight some of you IRL to settle disputes.

Nothing brutal, like those foam noodles you use to push people off platforms.

[Brago-sama]

Tbh ive never taken any of the forums seriously and really neither should you. Its mostly just a bunch of posturing in the hopes of getting an idea/change into the game with a bit of anger/venting sprinkled here and there.

Visit other game forums with constant game updates, its probably pretty similer. Cant please everyone, and people love letting you know

 

 

[chirsg]

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

“This is Bad Game design”

Yo.

[goblinball]

I think dst is the perfect breeding ground for this kind of culture

you have a bunch of ppl who’ve been playing the game for years and still care about it too much and have their own perceptions of what the game is and should be

and also alot of these ppl are grumpy tryhards who like Difficult Uncompromising Challenging games and are super passionate about the game and don’t understand casual players because yknow that’s one of dst’s demographics 

And also like who even uses forums anymore except for grumpy old ppl like us who’ve wasted way too much time on the internet

And also arguing with ppl on the internet is just how ppl cope with stuff sometimes and let off steam lol

The stars have aligned and this is just kinda the culture of the dst forums now

its not really that good but I feel like if it was intolerable then a lot of the ppl here wouldn’t have stayed on it for so long or at the very least I wouldn’t’ have

if you don’t like it then you can leave and do smth better with your life and that’s fine, same thing with staying here and wasting time arguing about free updates for a game for kids; that’s fine too.

[ZTheNecromancer]

Pretty much

Pro tip if you ever read a heated thread just put battle music over it or something it makes it funnier

I just lurk these days but I was on the forums during a pretty cringy time of my life (as is the norm for young teens), and I mostly lost interest in DST because of my bad experiences with the forums and the people here, but that's just me.

Just don't take it seriously, because what people get angry about here is ultimately kind of dumb

[Uedo]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay let me put it this way- Last month I paid 70$ for the newest Sonic the Hedgehog game Sonic Superstars, It’s a decent-ish game BUT.. it isn’t without its Flaws, The campaign is kinda short, Multiplayer doesn’t work as good as it Should (as in if your lagging behind you fall off screen then tap a button to teleport to the person who’s in front rather then the game split-screening and letting you go your separated paths) there’s No online Multiplayer, only living room Coop. Then there’s also the fact that collecting 100 coins or jumping into special bonus stages only grants you a new currency token which is ONLY used to buy robot customization parts for the games highly forgettable & clearly tacked on- Battle Mode.

To top all of that off- there’s a new mobile sonic game coming out next month that has more playable characters and will probably be free or at least very cheap, compared to the game I just paid 70$ for.

Are you telling me that I as a consumer have no right to complain about it??

DST is the same way- If people bought DST expecting it to stick to its roots that were DS.. then it’ll feel like the game has steered colossally away from that- With literal in game pop up windows, way point & navigation systems, recipe cards, Reworks, Re-Re-Works, Skill Trees- More powerful characters right out the starting gate on Day 1 where the game world isn’t being buffed to match them & their new found powers. Content that’s being added is either too late into the game to be the challenge Klei intended it to be (Brightshades infesting crops and resources won’t really be a challenge to anyone who has done pearls entire quest line, killed crab king & defeated Celestial champion) Or… OR- Content that SHOULD be early game is tied to late game tasks (such as obtaining furniture BP for the SawHorse through Ruins & Pearls Island)

As much as I love DS & DST- there’s a ton of things I’d “Like” to see be done with the game- For example what I still fail to understand is that how come in a game that literally has a world Gen toggle for just about every single feature or world hazard- Why can’t we get world Gen toggles that make the game react or play in a completely different way??

Such as & this is just a few examples:

A harder difficulty option where perhaps the player can’t build permanent solutions to all the games weather hazards.

A new way of exploring the world by having the biomes separated when generating a new game world into Archipelago Islands requiring more boat use, or even mountains slopes and hill sides so you’ll need to navigate up, over, or around the map..

Less focus on raid bosses, more focus on world exploration & adding an actual Adventures Mode campaign.

My point is that just like that Sonic game I paid 70$ for, no game is without its flaws… in general a game forum can’t ever be all positive.

Unless those forums are heavily moderated and any negative comments get removed so it only appears to be sunshine & rainbows.

Believe it or not something CAN be your favorite thing- And you can still find things to complain about it because maybe you can suggest things to “hopefully” make it more enjoyable for you.

Thats the thing though- You wouldn’t be on these forums at all if you didn’t care about the game or franchise, and you don’t have to praise every update Klei puts out for it either…

Some people will love X update, while others hate it. Those same people who loved X update May hate Y update while the ones who hated X end up loving Y.

Realistically speaking there’s a famous saying- you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can’t ever please all of the people all of the time.

^ I mean, probs cause of stuff like this. Now that we've graduated from angry school, we all wanna be professionals. With peace and love though, I'm just kidding, I think as people have said it's just cause they're passionate. I've lurked on here for years and it's generally been a little unique - it's people who love the game though, it's kinda nice tbh.

[Antynomity]

12 hours ago, Retepeter said:

I feel like the forums are kinda... ecotistical? If that's the right word

Humans, and living beings as a whole are egotistical

[W0l0l0]

Can't tell if it's some sort of bias but it definitely feels more negative now.

The art subforum is consistently nice.

[Juny Pear]

The dst forums have always been very prone to heated arguments and fighting, but from personal anecdotal experience, this has been mounting more and more over time.
Which I think is in part due to the way a good chunk of community members here will handle discussions, especially when views they dont personally agree with are involved.
As well as the moderation being surprisingly loose in my eyes. Discussions themselves, even if a little heated, don't necessarily need to be halted, but a lot of the time it feels as though you can go really far with what you say before you get told to stop, if the thread doesnt get outright locked because it escalated faster than action can reasonably be taken. 

Both of these things can sorta lead to tension between people rising to the point that certain discussions just end up too unproductive and certain people might even get a negative stigma associated with them. Which isn't to say that the fault is in the quality of moderation or how forums members behave, even if one can point out issues in both. That would oversimplify a lot things and kinda feels like pointing a finger at people who really can not be blamed for the entire situation.
Though that being said, being respectful towards each other and staying calm on the community's side, as well as giving a helpful nudge [a bit more openly] should a discussion slowly turn too intense on the moderation side could help turn things around in this regard. It wouldn't be easy, nor quick, but over time it might make for a healthier environment overall.

Because if there's one thing I've come to learn over time it's that heated discussions or being hostile isn't gonna do anyone any favors and letting them simmer on their own for too long might leave some of that lingering. 
We're all just people and can get pretty heated under the right circumstances, but if we treat each other with respect, I'm sure we'll be alright. Even if it's easier said than done.

And at the risk of sounding cheesy, I hope everyone reading this [including moderators] has a nice day. Or evening. Depending on the timezone.

[W0l0l0]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:14 PM, HowlVoid said:

Nothing brutal, like those foam noodles you use to push people off platforms.

*Tickles you from a distance with foam noodle.

[Captain_Rage]

Oh, actually the answer should be a blatant "no" since there used to be a confused emote among the reactions. It had its implications on the overall feel of the forums. Plus posts that received many reactions would get marked as "popular", with an orange border, but that seems to have disappeared....?