what's one thing you like about the skill trees and one thing you dislike?

[viberr]

so we can all agree that the skill trees have caused quite the ruckus on the beta branch of the forums, and I've read a good chunk of the complaints and likes

so I thought it would be a good idea if people do as the title says and give one thing they like about the skill trees and one thing they dislike

that way, people who dislike the skill tress can say something they do like and vice versa, and with that information, the devs could come to a more decisive conclusion

me personally (and this might sound stupid) I do not own a pc so I can't really give full opinions on the skill trees

but the one thing I do like about them is how they look! the UI for it is neat in my opinion  

and for the one thing I don't like, I guess it would be that they carry over between worlds? some skills I would say that's an okay thing (like the woodie hats) but some other skills are pretty busted to be kept at day 1 (but that is just my opinion)

so what's one thing you like about the skill trees and wat's one thing you don't like?

(also, please don't just make a comment saying "I like nothing in the skill trees and I hate everything about them" or "I like everything about the skill tress and don't hate anything about them" cuz that would kind of defeat the purpose of this topic, okay, thank you!)

[Ulisesvolador]

I like that they might give new ways to play with a character.

I don't like that you need to wait 140 days, you should be able to get points faster by killing bosses, crafting stuff or doing tasks.

[Scrimbles]

I don't think many people would argue they aren't fun to play around with, with some exception to specific skills that are underwhelming. New content, is, in fact, fun.

I just don't like how after refreshes power crept characters and provided across the board buffs, Klei is double dipping, adding even more upsides, with no balanced downsides, yet again.

[jpirez8]

I like the possible variety that the perks in skill trees can bring and the sense of character progression it brings.

However, I do not like the form of being given them permanently based off of time played. Wilson I believe can remain the way he is as permanent upgrades with a skill tree since, being the supposed starter character, it makes sense given the time one would spend learning the game with him. But for any other character, it would be nice to have to do their skills through that would thematically make sense with the perk being given. An example would be Wormwood's passive butterfly perk being rewarded for planting x (some small amount, not advocating for anything grindy) of flowers.

[-Variant]

I love the variety and hidden tech behind a lot of the skills.
People finding out you can propel boats with Woodies tail slap is absolutely awesome. I love that kinda stuff!

I don't like how a lot of the upgrades are pure buffs, though! I want some risk for my reward, maybe a drawback or two.
It's super surprising you can beef up your character and drag them across worlds for little to no cost at all!

[xhyom]

I really like the possibilities in customization, I'm kinda excited to see how Wigfrid and Winona will look like, they have much to gain from this and have so much room to work I hope I will not be dissapointed in the future.

Even so, the lack of customization is a problem too, as many will say the lack of downsides makes the perks simply buffs, the lack of downsides also holds back strong characters from having interesting new abilities that they could have, but can't have because it would be overpowered.

[Zeklo]

Customization both positive and negative for different reasons.

Power creep aside, customization from the start is... moderately alright when it suitably alters playstyle.
It is, however, a negative when the options are less 'playstyle defining' and just numerical buffs—at that point they just become poorly gated character defaults.

[Brago-sama]

Like: Mah boy warly about to become Gordon Ramsay. Please let me share his crockpots

Dislike: oh boy here comes at least 6 more months of psudo-reworks.... that might not solve stuff even like the first round was supposed to

[ShadowDuelist]

What I like: That two people can now play the same character with synergy in their powers themselves, something that many characters didn't really have, adding an extra layer of coop strategy. 

What I don't like: Some perks are somewhat underpowered by design (specially on Wormwood), but hopefully they will fix those during the beta. Overall I have only but positive feelings on this.

What I hope that doesn't happen again: That the last 3 characters they touch are the more polished ones, and these first 3 become somewhat bad in comparison again. I hope the general idea of all the changes are already mapped for everyone.

[Theukon-dos]

I like that it's finally giving characters like Woodie the push they need. 

 

I dislike how it's an obligate mechanic which means that characters like Wolfgang are also getting boosted even if they don't need it. Blimey, what's Wanda's skill tree going to do? Make it so that she automatically uses clocks at 79 years old? As if the claim of her being a glass canon wasn't shakey enough

[GolographGUSlo]

I like the potential of skill trees.

I don’t like how it’s not giving a lot of perks for different playstyles like explorer, fighter etc. Could be better if it focused on playstyles more than just numbers(Wolfgang) or crafts that could be placed somewhere else(Wormwood).

[Dr. Safety]

I like how they allow you to customize your character's kit in ways that are better geared towards what you like about them.

I don't like how it's introducing more characters specific items that we will never get skins for

[JustAFlower]

Like : The skill tree is a mechanic that I personally like, it's good for customization
Don't like : I don't want to wait more than a 100 days just to get them, there's no challenge

 

[Arcwell]

I like how the new perks (Woodie's in particular) make me excited to try these characters again. I have for a long time felt that Woodie's abilities were too underwhelming to be worth using, which was a shame because they had a lot of interesting applications. This update fixes that. Wolfgang gains the added utility of being able to 1-shot groups of splumonkeys with dumbbells, which is hilarious imo. I know some have complained Wolfgang didn't need the buff, but I really don't think it causes any serious unbalance that wasn't already there (and it's fine to have characters of different power levels, this is not a competitive game). 

I dislike how underwhelming Wormwood's perks feel. Ultimately I do not play a lot of wormwood so I'm not the best person to ask for feedback on it and I won't mind how it turns out regardless. I would like to see the Wormwood players be happy with their character, though.

[goblinball]

4 hours ago, -Variant said:

I don't like how a lot of the upgrades are pure buffs, though! I want some risk for my reward, maybe a drawback or two.

I understand the thought process behind this, however I don’t think I agree with it. It’s a skill tree; they’re kinda supposed to be pure buffs that’s how skill trees work. I’d be frustrated if my reward for surviving long enough and getting enough skill points was having to semi-permanently deal with some random downside for the sake of having a downside.

[GelatinousCube]

I like that old characters who desperately need attention will get it. I like that my favourite characters will get new abilities. I like that there will be incentive to play and max out every character. 

I dislike that they basically lied about no more reworks because lets be real that is exactly what these are just with a different name and done a little differently. I dislike that they mean Wilson in reality did not get a rework at all. I dislike that they're choosing to do it now instead of finishing the current rift update arc that so many people are questioning, or finishing so many other things they've started like the ocean etc. Can the gateway in the archives do something already please? 

[Golden Daemon]

Getting new tools and mechanics to play around is always fun, adds a bit of variety to playthroughs.

The skills beings one time unlocks just feels wrong , the added power needs to increase over time / after performing certain actions and should be unlocked per server rather than per account.
At first i assumed that the new skill trees were going to be tied to the opening rifts and the overall increased difficulty of worlds (the world becomes more dangerous and the survivors become more proficient in their crafts ) but the ability to carry those skills through different servers just seems wrong , specially so since these buffs dont have any follow up increase in the general difficulty of the game, it can make the entire game feel a bit easier than it should.

3 hours ago, goblinball said:

I understand the thought process behind this, however I don’t think I agree with it. It’s a skill tree; they’re kinda supposed to be pure buffs that’s how skill trees work. I’d be frustrated if my reward for surviving long enough and getting enough skill points was having to semi-permanently deal with some random downside for the sake of having a downside.

Skill trees can also use things other than pure buffs, one thing that i really like about project zomboid game is that during character creation it allows you to take negative traits alongside positive traits in order to gain extra points based on how severe those negative traits were to put into more positive traits of your choice.

Imagine if the skill trees had a reverse side to them that would go the opposite direction, each node having certain things that amplify the characters current thematic downsides , but taking those down sides would give extra skill points to put into the currently existing positive traits.
This way the players can choose their downsides and tailor their gameplay a bit more to their tastes and also make room for some interesting downsides without making it feel as a straight up nerf to the character (which always feels bad).

[Francis2000]

9 hours ago, viberr said:

but the one thing I do like about them is how they look! the UI for it is neat in my opinion  

and for the one thing I don't like, I guess it would be that they carry over between worlds? some skills I would say that's an okay thing (like the woodie hats) but some other skills are pretty busted to be kept at day 1 (but that is just my opinion)

my opinion is almost the same as yours! so i try to say something different:

I like how the skill tree feels like customizing your character, seeing characters grow in the game, instead of having the same strengths and weaknesses from start to finish.

What I don't like is that points carry over between worlds. I'd much rather have this system evolve as the player progresses through a single world, jumping into any starting new world with a "max level" character is weird.

The derivative problem of this method is that some skills are more valuable only in the super early stage, according to the current way of obtaining points these skills will be acquired too late.

My solution is to adjust the speed at which skill points are obtained, just like most RPG games, it always levelup quickly at beginning, but it will gradually slow down after the initial stage. 

Another side issue is that having to redistribute skill points every time you enter a new world can be annoying, especially if you prefer short-term games.

For this I think it is possible to pre-arrange the order of your skill unlocks in character selection page. For example: when I play Woodie, the order is 1. cheaper boards → 2. cane → 3. faster gathering → 4. more faster gathering. So I arrange this sequence before I start, and when the points are earned it will automatically unlock in this way. When need to change to manual selection, there is also a switch in the game to disable the predetermined order. 

Furthermore, you can also make a world option setting to allow points to follow the total progress of the character, or not (start with 0 to unlock the skill tree)

It's just that these functions may require a lot of development time?

I seem to talk too much…

[ALCRD]

I like that they open up more possibilities to improve characters that desperately needed some TLC.

I do not like how the insight points are earned.

16 minutes ago, Francis2000 said:

My solution is to adjust the speed at which skill points are obtained, just like most RPG games, it always levelup quickly at beginning, but it will gradually slow down after the initial stage. 

Just don't make the curve too steep like in some games where you level up early levels super quickly but last few levels take months to earn.

[Francis2000]

1 hour ago, ALCRD said:

I do not like how the insight points are earned.

This is another point of my dissatisfaction. Feel that should get it through doing something. 

But it can't be too mandatory for the player to complete the task. In this regard, I tend to hope that the progress of the goal is completely (or almost) hidden, using the classic Don't Starve way of saying nothing

[GolographGUSlo]

48 minutes ago, Francis2000 said:

But it can't be too mandatory for the player to complete the task. In this regard, I tend to hope that the progress of the goal is completely (or almost) hidden, using the classic Don't Starve way of saying nothing

Could as well not use skill tress for that and instead make characters earn upgrades. For example character’s craftable items could be upgraded on craft stations. And I don’t see the reason to not make some of the perks part of character’s kit(like Wormwood’s perk that makes butterflys friendly).

[viberr]

3 hours ago, Francis2000 said:

My solution is to adjust the speed at which skill points are obtained, just like most RPG games, it always levelup quickly at beginning, but it will gradually slow down after the initial stage. 

and that would be smart because people get get those early game perks that benefit the early game

but it would still take them a while to get the late game perks that would be good during the endgame

that's pretty smart!

[Antynomity]

I like the concept of making bad characters better (like woodie)

I hate how we now once again have character updates in the update schedule delaying content.

[Gerrent95]

I like the alignments, with the mutually exclusive skills that needed to be unlocked. And how the wereforms have an extra mutually exclusive skill. And that wormwood is lore appropriately locked to the moon. I'd like more of that.

I dislike that insight is unlocked by just existing. That works for Wilson as a callback to how characters used to be unlocked, but I'd rather work to unlock the skill points as other characters. 

If for future skills they mixed their approaches to these 3 skill trees, and changed how insight was earned to be more appropriate to each character, I'd love it. 

Some of wormwood's grab enough left side to get these perks. Some of Woodie's this perk locks out this other unaligned perk from use. How Wolfgang has several alignment perks, though variety would be appreciated there. Just add a character specifical way insight is unlocked, that lends to the character's identity, like early trying new dishes. This would be perfect imo.

[BezKa]

Some of the perks are quite nice, I wouldn't mind them being part of the characters permanently.

I dislike that they exist. I think all these perks (if you have to add them) could be implemented in other ways ("give x amount of y to the NPC z to receive skill p" first thing that came to mind)