[Game Update] - 562556

[. . .]

6 minutes ago, BezKa said:

I don't know much about the topic, but it's the kind of thing that is fine when used by people who own it, and not fine if used by outsiders. I can't think of a good analogy because every case of this sort is very individual, due to the history of the symbol/word/expression. The "don't they want to see their symbol on stuff" is wrong, because it has deep emotional and historical meaning, so just like slapping the "Anchor P" (idk how to describe it, it's a polish war related symbol) on like a pack of sausage makes no sense and could be considered offensive, so is putting a star of david on a helmet. (Even though it wasn't.)

I'm not trying to expand the argument, like I said I don't know much, but there is a genuine reason why it could be offensive, it's not just made up is what I'm saying. 

Interesting. Well as someone religious and my entire family being religious we don't find any media with references to our religion as offensive. In fact if media references our religion as long as not it is in a bad light then we are happy about it.

The world is always progressing and being offended by religious symbols showing up in media feels as an outdated opinion from a few decades ago. I don't see Christians making a fuss when countless of medias make references to use of their holy books, crosses, demons, and angels from the Bible. Even Klei's salt pillars looking like petrified humans references Sodom and Gomorrah from the Bible and Quran. As a muslim, my entire family being muslim, and my muslim and christian friends I have, none of them would be offended if Klei were to add a hijab, mosque, cross, bible, demons, angels, ect. in the game as skins or other content or our religious symbols as having content in media referencing our religions in a neutral/good light is only a good thing! So, it is truly mysterious why somebody would take offense to something only vaguely similar to something from their religion when it is not even being portrayed in a negative way.

[BezKa]

1 minute ago, . . . said:

Snip

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. There is historical context to this, and it'd be best to read about it and do research if you want to know the details, since as I said I don't know much either. Even if we end up thinking "that's a silly mindset to have" we will understand it better. And hey, it's good to know more.

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It makes a difference to a lot people actually in the same sense people are a lot more ok with differently colored blood or lasers over bullets it was quite a popular tactic in game censorship.

I have never shared this mindset In Lego Batman you can shoot people, blow them up with bombs, you can even Have your Coop Robin partner Hold a enemies face over a Bomb you planted as Batman- Just because it’s LEGOS Doesn’t Make it any less violent.

And on that note: a LARGE number of people have arachnophobia (fear of Spiders) so Much so that popular games such as Grounded, or Marvels Avengers- Have to provide an “Arachnophobia Mode” which basically changes the Body of the Spiders to look like something else (usually just a colored blob) 

as far as the Terrors Below update goes-

I think Boulder Quakes & Acid Rain is FINE, BUT!!!! They should’ve done a WHOLE LOT MORE- 

Heres a few Examples:

Boulder Quakes can sometimes include Rock Lobsters falling disguised as a Boulder.

Boulder Quakes (caused by more intense quakes than Antlion can produce) should also have contained Rarer resources: Such as Falling from the sky with Chunks of Gold/Nitre/Gems etc mineable from them.. all things which actually sometimes FALL during regular Earthquakes.

Acid Rain should visually change the appearance and behavior of some mobs.

For example it currently enhances Batalisks- BUT, I believe that if “Acid Rain” was to fall onto a Rock Lobster it would burn and Enrage them (like Beefalo going into heat in Spring..)

Acid Rain Should also Passively “Degrade/Dissolve” any lingering Boulder Quakes you’ve yet to mine out.

CURRENTLY Boulders offer no kind of rewards and only exist to be a very lame & already familiar Annoyance.

I do love the little Ink Blights though, I’m just disappointed they’re limited to Caves Only, it would had been so cool if those little flying Ink Blights could’ve came out of plugged Sinkholes like Batalisks do.

[MondayNight]

26 minutes ago, Paxtonnnn said:

Of course, but I really don’t think a few sprite changes are comparable to actually changing mechanics. 

"Terrors Below" Beta was out for quite some time (2 weeks to be precise), and people complained about "Boulders in Super-Earthquakes" and "Acid Rain" from start - from concept to numerical tuning. I reckon that's plenty time to come up with solutions that aren't purely a soft-core "turning off" (akin Monkey Pirate Raids). Likewise there were plenty, quite creative community suggestions (like this topic for example) KLei apparently just glossed over with a most uninspired way to tackle the underlined issue - by "getting Moonquay-ed" it. Hence is understandable why people get miffed when seemingly actual game-play quality is trampled by superficial changes taking priority - more-so: on account of "faux political made-up controversies" premises by cultural trolls.

[-Nick-]

2 hours ago, mathem99 said:

Even from beyond the grave this fellow is causing quite the havoc.

"I say! I was quite a character people still remember!"

[Paxtonnnn]

28 minutes ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

Hence is understandable why people get miffed when seemingly actual game-play quality is trampled by superficial changes taking priority

It was an unimportant and pretty unnecessary change, but I really don’t think this took up as much development time as you’re acting like it did. These small changes don’t “trample” anything

[lenship2]

yall are even more offended by a circle representing alter than the original person's friend...

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

have never shared this mindset In Lego Batman you can shoot people, blow them up with bombs, you can even Have your Coop Robin partner Hold a enemies face over a Bomb you planted as Batman- Just because it’s LEGOS Doesn’t Make it any less violent.

And that's fine to feel that way but that's simply not how the majority see it minor context changes like that make a difference in how people perceive events like that see. A paper mario enemy getting cut by scissors vs a realistic character getting cut by scissors invoke different feelings. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Mysterious box

[HowlVoid]

3 hours ago, Sir.Fux said:

I’m Jewish, I liked the star. Wanted to buy that skin in the future. Now they changed it and I don’t like it anymore and won’t buy it. That’s my 2 cents. Peace out. 

I liked the star too, it was a clean and simple design.

Oh well. I feel bad for anyone who bought it only for it to change without warning. 

[BoysenSyrup]

...?

[MondayNight]

2 hours ago, Paxtonnnn said:

It was an unimportant and pretty unnecessary change, but I really don’t think this took up as much development time as you’re acting like it did. These small changes don’t “trample” anything

If it was just one thing, and devoid of any "strange political meaning", would be understandable - rather, quite perfectly reasonable. But that's not the case. There were a lot more "vertical pixel-line/hue of this fence/shape of this cap/a.s.o." minute visual elements KLei jumped to modify the moment some, or certain individuals underlined. Would make sense to be like that, yes. Yet, meanwhile, real "meaty" game content, mechanics-wise, problems pointed time-and-again, here-and-there ad nauseam: most of it remains as-is, aka bugs or "band-aids" akin mentioned Monkey Pirate Raids, now for "Super-Earthquake Boulders" plus "Acid Rain". Does that paint a good picture about the game's general health? Form over function?!

Then there's the controversy aspect Jack pointed at here. That's in itself an interesting can of worms not limited to KLei, but to current zeitgeist, Overton Window or, to be more technical, trends and fads of the Social Media - and how firms/corporations use and abuse what they believe to be popular, for "positive image capital" in said current socio-political climate. That's disconcerting to say the least. I for one desire DST to be a great game that stands the test of time via both in-game fine mechanics and humor alike, great visuals, certainly too - nothing short of "perfect" as perfect it might be; and for sure not afraid to pull any punches as great comedy does. The "watering down" of creative endeavor never made great works of art. Even more when "critics" of said art do so in bad faith or through zeitgeist trolling. Am sure, in Wigfrid's Helmet case, artist responsible with designing referenced Celtic/Norse/Pagan symbols not too dissimilar to the ones below:

Initial Hexagram used - because that's what it essentially was - represented a pretty neat, simple design. Was it to my particular liking? Not really. In game's context, with Alter's general shape, new one makes more sense. But, once more, the act of censoring is what bothers people the most in this case, on false "controversy" premise nevertheless.

Anyway, this is where I tap out on subject at hand. Once more, I only hope KLei will go in future at "shaky" game mechanics at least 1/10 as vehemently as they went at redesigning Wig's Hexagram tiara. High expectations are from latest arc, one hinted to amp up Survival facet first time in many-many years now.

Edited June 24, 2023 by MostMerryTomcat
*typo*

[bloopah]

1 minute ago, MostMerryTomcat said:

If it was just one thing, and devoid of any "strange political meaning", would be understandable - rather, quite perfectly reasonable. But that's not the case. There were a lot more "vertical pixel-line/hue of this fence/shape of this cap/a.s.o." minute visual elements KLei jumped to modify the moment some, or certain individuals underlined. Would make sense to be like that, yes. Yet, meanwhile, real "meaty" game content, mechanics-wise, problems pointed time-and-again, here-and-there ad nauseam: most of it remains as-is, aka bugs or "band-aids" akin mentioned Monkey Pirate Raids, now for "Super-Earthquake Boulders" plus "Acid Rain". Does that paint a good picture about the game's general health? Form over function?!

Then there's the controversy aspect Jack pointed at here. That's in itself an interesting can of worms not limited to KLei, but to current zeitgeist, Overton Window or, to be more technical, trends and fads of the Social Media - and how firms/corporations use and abuse what they believe to be popular, for "positive image capital" in said current socio-political climate. That's disconcerting to say the least. I for one desire DST to be a great game that stands the test of time via both in-game fine mechanics and humor alike, great visuals, certainly too - nothing short of "perfect" as perfect it might be; and for sure not afraid to pull any punches as great comedy does. The "watering down" of creative endeavor never made great works of art. Even more when "critics" of said art do so in bad faith or through zeitgeist trolling. Am sure, in Wigfrid's Helmet case, artist responsible with designing referenced Celtic/Norse/Pagan symbols not to dissimilar to the ones below:

Initial Hexagram used - because that's what it essentially was - represented a pretty neat, simple design. Was it to my particular liking? Not really. In game's context, with Alter's general shape, new one makes more sense. But, once more, the act of censoring is what bothers people the most in this case, on false "controversy" premise nevertheless.

Anyway, this is where I tap out on subject at hand. Once more, I only hope KLei will go in future at "shaky" game mechanics at least 1/10 as vehemently as they went at redesigning Wig's Hexagram tiara. High expectations are from latest arc, one hinted to amp up Survival facet first time in many-many years now.

Wasn't your original point that it took up development time? As @Paxtonnnn said, it was just a minor graphical change. It would only take half an hour to change it from a star to Alter at worst.

[MondayNight]

3 minutes ago, bloopah said:

Wasn't your original point that it took up development time? As @Paxtonnnn said, it was just a minor graphical change. It would only take half an hour to change it from a star to Alter at worst.

As I've mentioned in the post you quoted, is not just this one thing. But a more broader look at how and what KLei modifies.

[Lennard]

Oh my, do we really need a lengthy discussion just because Klei did an oopsie and changed a symbol? I mean this is a wider issue but it's getting out-of-game 

[Memetan]

 

On 6/23/2023 at 7:49 PM, JesseB_Klei said:

Relic Chairs now have the “structure” tag.

• So now I can avoid being hit by a bowler by sitting in my new toilet. Sounds funny XD

On 6/23/2023 at 7:49 PM, JesseB_Klei said:

Wigfrid’s Moonbound artwork and Moonlight Diadem have been adjusted.

• I don't know how the opinion of just one person changed an actual cool looking skin. (Yea I liked more the star one) I mean I even use this stars to decorate my notebooks when I'm boring or as Christmas decorations since 6 pointed stars are the easiest to make for me.

 

• Warbucks being controversial...

When people ask me about a controversial character of Don't starve I always think about Wendy, you know, the 8 years old depressed girl, followed by the ghost of her dead sister that kills things in her way, and some of her quotes can make you think that she is kinda suicidal, and I think she still needs to kill something to wake up her sister in single player, kinda dark.

Warbucks will be easily fixed by making some changes to her quotes or personality. But instead he was removed. So now Warbucks became the Schrödinger cat of Don't Starve being a finished Don't Starve character that even appears in trailers but at the same time he is not a character that you can play.

• The moontations or moon corruption:

They are really threatening looking, but then someone gets scared of the zombie looking penguins and hounds, and now we have rocks, plants, and "White goop" as enemies.

I think it is sad that sometimes Klei make this changes that not everyone will like, but well... we still have mods.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Memetan

[Catteflyterpill]

4 hours ago, Memetan said:

 

• The moontations or moon corruption:

They are really threatening looking, but then someone gets scared of the zombie looking penguins and hounds, and now we have rocks, plants, and "White goop" as enemies.

I think it is sad that sometimes Klei make this changes that not everyone will like, but well... we still have mods.

Nah, I had the same perception. But I think JoeW later clarified that the changes were due to the devs not really liking the artistic direction of those mobs. So they decided to pull it back a bit, rather than catering to the supposed vocal minority. Seems like they just didn't feel it was a good fit for the game.

[Hupo]

1 hour ago, Catteflyterpill said:

Nah, I had the same perception. But I think JoeW later clarified that the changes were due to the devs not really liking the artistic direction of those mobs. So they decided to pull it back a bit, rather than catering to the supposed vocal minority. Seems like they just didn't feel it was a good fit for the game.

That's exactly what worries me. If JoeW responds this time, the helm skin was only changed because the developers thought the star was too boring, not because of some political or religious factors. Then I don't think we need an official response in the future.

Yes, many people may say that I am only willing to believe what I believe. But I still want to say that there is no shame in telling the truth.

[Evelo]

On 6/23/2023 at 10:58 AM, -Variant said:

Right here!

Wow that is pretty. Love it.

[JoeW]

On 6/24/2023 at 10:29 PM, Hupo said:

That's exactly what worries me. If JoeW responds this time, the helm skin was only changed because the developers thought the star was too boring, not because of some political or religious factors. Then I don't think we need an official response in the future.

Yes, many people may say that I am only willing to believe what I believe. But I still want to say that there is no shame in telling the truth.

The answer is yes and no. 

Style guides, production standards and rules for art and religious symbology and best practices are a thing. Sometimes art, writing or design fall outside of those expectations and they need to be fixed. This is one of those cases. We adjust art all the time for the reasons above. Pretty much every time new art goes into the game.

So when Charlie looks a bit off and people were misinterpreting why (why does she look older?),  we look and say "oh, yeah let's fix that" nobody bats an eye. Somebody says "hey, maybe avoid a six pointed star" and we see it and think "sure, that can be better" then some people lose their minds.

This isn't about what the symbol was and who might be offended. Generally in any form of media or art - you want to avoid any type of extraneous symbols or messaging people might look for extra meaning into, if you do not have message that you are trying to convey.

And in DST in particular there are a lot of people looking for any sort of meaning behind everything in the game.

We almost had the Wendy trailer re-edited because people thought a certain sound meant that Abigail actually died because of a car crash for some reason. The simple fact is that it's only when one of these symbols or something can be interpreted out of it being changed that it becomes a problem. Which, quite frankly is why you have to avoid this stuff to begin with. 

Ironically - the controversy always comes afterwards. It's always exactly one group of people offended that we're bowing down to the complainers. The complaints come from people offended that we changed our own art or made our own decisions about how people view our game. The snarky follow-up threads. The crappy attitudes, disingenuous and bad faith arguments and speculations about some unseen force that causes us to make these changes. It's silly and it's a waste of time. 

The point has been made. It's not up for debate. Move on - I'm not sending out more warnings on this. 

If you purchased this skin before the change and are unhappy with the new style of the skin, contact support and we will do what we can to help out. https://support.klei.com