What is your main critique with the lunar vs shadow arc so far?

[nimzowitsch10]

I just feel like none of the new items are worth going through all that struggle for. If they added a speedboost with the new hood at the cost of draining sanity that would have been way better than what it does now which just boosts damage for the scythe and protects from acid rain. Or if the scythe gave you some cool ranged attack that does alot of damage but with big cooldown. Same goes for the lunar itemset which is just not worth getting at all besides the helmet which I will admit is useful during summer and moonstorms. Stuff like that could have made this update way cooler and more incentive for players to go through these annoying rifts and fighting more annoying creatures.

 

  

[Captain_Rage]

If defeating the big bad bosses would unlock "good gear" people would instead whine about having to defeat the biggest bosses to unlock desirable gear. Plus as soon as a new item with slightly higher stats appears there is massive whine about previous items becoming obsolete, and even though nothing is further from the truth since it does not affect old content this still tends to be the mentality of many players.

For now I think everything is in order. The items are not groundbreaking but they definitely have their charm and uses (although I expect they will provide more utility once more content gets added, especially in the context of the new arc).

[Mike23Ua]

Klei devs stated in the 2023 Roadmap that the updates made this year will be vital to your survival, this means that the current lunar stuff & shadow stuff is going to be very very important for playing the game going forward with any (& probably all..) future updates.

A friendly reminder that we’ve only seen TWO of the updates planned for this year (out of 5) and while only ONE more update is tied to “From Beyond” story Arch, the other two Updates are the QoL tweaks that will iron everything out.

For example: I can’t Judge How useful the Umbralla is going to be, if I don’t know the full extent beyond its purpose. And I can only judge these items based on their current purpose.

But since the roadmap clearly states “Vital” to survival- I’m going to assume that these new “Toys” are part of some bigger “Playset”

Actually hold on.. let me use my creative writers mind to conjure up a use for Brightshade Staffs.

Klei could Alter the current “Boulder Quakes” to drop a rarer type of resource (like DreadStone chunks) rather than being a copy and paste of Antlion boulders, they can provide all the current resources + New ones, I mean gems literally rain from the ceiling in earthquakes sometime.

However.. the Brightshade Staff (which bounces 7 projectiles between groups of mobs) could creatively be used to Counter this Content, by using the BS staff as these quakes start, and being able to use Lunar power to counter Shadow Boulders falling and wrecking your base (Aka instead of just crashing down on top of your base for the LOL Uncompromising experience, using the Lunar Staff from the previous update can bounce between the boulders as they’re falling and instantly break them apart in mid-air dropping their resources without the boulders damaging your base.

But ONLY if you use Lunar magic to counter Shadow Magic, or Vice Versa…

[mkemal23]

8 hours ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

I just feel like none of the new items are worth going through all that struggle for.

The items are fine. Brightshade helm and staff are really useful for the moonstorm event. The sword is really nice for the new content and the pickaxe is simply the best tool we have right now.

But my main critique with the new rifts are that they are too unbalanced to play as of right now. Lunar side has only one enemy and has seven unique crafts. Meanwhile shadow side has four enemies and only three crafts(I don't count the umbralla as a unique craft). Also the new Ink blight enemies are much harder to find than brightshades. So in the end, this whole "picking a side" thing turns into a journey to craft the new scythe.

Other than that, I think people here already gave enough feedback about the issues of this update.

[GenomeSquirrel]

What can I do now that I couldn’t do before is usually how I gage updates. 

Right now this all feels like pointless busy work.

[mblt]

I think majority of the items are fine and it depends on usage.

Yes tolerating the rifts are annoying but it's intended to be for progression after CC and AF, if you can beat them you should be able to handle these new problems as expected after having beaten one of the two major bosses, being able to control where the lunar rifts spawn or not having it change location could be nice as a world protection

The brightshade sword is a double durability Dark Sword with no sanity drain, deals increased damage to shadow monsters and gets even more damage if you wear both pieces of armor, that's pretty good for a single sword, especially against nightmares, shadow pieces and fuelweaver. The damage increase may be very niche but it's still double durability outside of it, lasting for a pretty long time before needing remaking,

Feels like a Glass Cutter upgrade as it has similar functions, Dark Sword damage with no sanity drain but weaker durability, unless you fight shadow monsters in which it doubles from 75 to 150 if only used on them

The tools, sure the gold tools already very overshadow them, feels like the Pick/Saw problem in which why go for that when you can just keep making gold tools, especially after clearing ruins where frazzled wires can give you a triple digit in gold count? I feel like they'll have more exclusive uses later instead of being just an upgrade to efficiency and durability, an example already being harvesting Pure Brilliance much easier, at least they're cheap to make so you don't exactly need to use them sparingly

The staff... Feels tricky to use, it's damage is way too low to really make use of despite it being a new ranged weapon, I did find two very good uses for it however, paired with Crown of Enlightenment and sanity food you can shred an entire horde of spiders which is good for people who don't want to make farms, the other use being against Fuelweaver actually, the staff can be used in place of Weatherpains to deal with the healers, you'd just have to use it a few times to hit all of them

4 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

Brightshade helm and staff are really useful for the moonstorm event.

I forgot about that, also a very good use.

The bombs... Scare me actually, the idea that i can accidently 1 shot myself regardless of the armor I wear feels scary, a good type of scary, feels like you're literally holding a bomb. However they're great for what they are and give you a reason to stock up on infused shards, much like the Unnatural Portal giving you a reason to stock up on Moongleams, nuking a giant horde of Shadow Splumonkeys that were chasing me made me realize what power this could have if considered

The new void armors look cool, changing appearance depending on character unlocks many future possibilities. It also increases the Brightshade sword's damage which, interests me, a combination of light and dark...

The scythe I really enjoy, if not as a weapon, then as a tool. It's reaping function is such a QoL, it even works on farm plants and giant ones which is very handy. A scythe reaping, makes sense to me.

The only thing really needing a change is the Umbralla, feels like people will only use it to counter acid rain despite it's other functions, like it's overheating protection being that of an Eyebrella, or it's 100% rain protection vs normal Umbrella's 90%.

[abrocator]

33 minutes ago, Captain_Rage said:

Plus as soon as a new item with slightly higher stats appears there is massive whine about previous items becoming obsolete, and even though nothing is further from the truth since it does not affect old content this still tends to be the mentality of many players.

I have never played a game where people complained about high-level, hard to get items obsoleting early and mid-game items.

Until I played DST.

[Captain_Rage]

There is plenty of such critique here on the forums. It's actually nice to see Klei doing what they can to avoid power creep while keeping things interesting.

[dois raios]

I am very happy that there is content post fuelweaver and post celestial champion.

My only critcit is that when you create a new world, there isnt a playstyle based on lunar vs shadows yet. ( in this playstyle rifts are activated by default and maybe others changes in the settings and generation)

[Yuuko]

Hard to pick my "main" critique...  so I'll give 2.

1) Homogenizing the cast.  Both the lunar and shadow end game armors almost completley obfuscate which character someone is actually playing.  Visually we'll all be running around like minions, and the enforced nature of this gear through the planar (and future upgrades) really grates me the wrong way.  I don't play games to look like everyone else, this is seriously a hard NO from me.  They look cool, but demanding I play one of 2 armors that makes who I decided to play the game as go away just makes me not want any of it.  The planar damage kicks this up a notch by ALSO removing the perks of certain characters and I'm really not about that either.  Everyone should NOT deal equal damage when we have character's who specific perks is "doing more damage."  Yeah 2x damage sounds like a lot, but look at how GOD LIKE wick / max are right now and try to tell me why we should care about 2x damage with how utterly trivial they make the game?

This whole thing with planar damage and the enforced end game gear is 100% downvotes from me.  Optional sidegrades that obfuscate character visuals can be interesting for those who want it, but forcing me to use gear that takes away the character I chose to play is dumg. (dumg is a cross between dumb and dung b/c Klei likes plays on words so much they couldn't give use a shovel + axe b/c I guess they couldn't give us something actually useful without the right smoosh word for it)

2) Base destruction.  Idk why Klei is on a tear with this, but it feels very spiteful.  With the last update they dialed back the base destruction a lot, and it seemed like they got the message ... and then we get THIS??!!!  Seriously Klei W.T.F  Destroying structures does not make a game more challenging, it makes it more grindy.  I do not play games with endless grind systems.

I get that Klei wants to try to make some hard mode, but this is NOT terraria, or ark survival.  DST is its own game and it needs to stay DST, not try to be something else.  These kinds of changes really shake my trust in Klei to keep building onto this game.

[GenomeSquirrel]

49 minutes ago, abrocator said:

I have never played a game where people complained about high-level, hard to get items obsoleting early and mid-game items.

Until I played DST.

Weird, it’s a complaint you can throw at genres, particularly ones without a scarce economy and with shallow weapon differences.

[Spino43]

19 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

2) Base destruction.  Idk why Klei is on a tear with this, but it feels very spiteful.  With the last update they dialed back the base destruction a lot, and it seemed like they got the message ... and then we get THIS??!!!  Seriously Klei W.T.F  Destroying structures does not make a game more challenging, it makes it more grindy.  I do not play games with endless grind systems.

True, it almost feels like an UM dev somehow managed to sneak in Klei's dev crew. None of the updates before the new arc were so damn mean to base builders specifically. Even Hamlet's Aporkalypse wasn't so... extreme.

The only two things that seem interesting in the two updates are the bombs and the scythe, they are actually unique and feel powerful as endgame items should. Everything else is just "this stuff but with planar mech slapped on or counter a VERY specific problem with no way else to counter said problem". Also, it seems after maxwell rework where his shadows gain power from shadow gears, klei jist decides ro copy paste this to both new lunar/shadow gears, even forcing you to use a specific weapon just to gain the buff.

In the end, maybe I am just wrong and fail to see the big picture klei is drawing. Please klei, prove me wrong.

[goblinball]

1 hour ago, Shosuko said:

2) Base destruction.  Idk why Klei is on a tear with this, but it feels very spiteful.  With the last update they dialed back the base destruction a lot, and it seemed like they got the message ... and then we get THIS??!!!  Seriously Klei W.T.F  Destroying structures does not make a game more challenging, it makes it more grindy.  I do not play games with endless grind systems.

 

The sad part is that I entirely get why klei is doing this since this is literally what you guys asked for 

“oh we need more late game challenges oh we need more seasonal stuff we need harder seasons”

I’ve seen ppl suggest stuff like blizzards in later winter seasons so many times and only now that this content is finally being added are ppl realizing this is a bad idea

a lot of the ppl complaining about these new betas yell that “oh klei doesn’t listen to us” when in reality klei has been listening to them too much imo

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, goblinball said:

The sad part is that I entirely get why klei is doing this since this is literally what you guys asked for 

“oh we need more late game challenges oh we need more seasonal stuff we need harder seasons”

I’ve seen ppl suggest stuff like blizzards in later winter seasons so many times and only now that this content is finally being added are ppl realizing this is a bad idea

a lot of the ppl complaining about these new betas yell that “oh klei doesn’t listen to us” when in reality klei has been listening to them too much imo

Everyone isn't a monolithic group, but yes people have asked for crazy stuff and now that they are getting it, some of them are realizing it was kinda bad lol

There were a few big threads about "should dst have a ng+ mode" that came out suspiciously close to the first beta that in retrospect I wondered if Klei was testing the waters lol

[Pet Rock]

4 minutes ago, goblinball said:

a lot of the ppl complaining about these new betas yell that “oh klei doesn’t listen to us” when in reality klei has been listening to them too much imo

I don't think anyone is asking for un-counterable damage to structures (and players). Even blizzards as I've seen them suggested wouldn't damage structures. Harder seasons with fair content would be great!

[Dragonboooorn]

2 hours ago, dois raios said:

I am very happy that there is content post fuelweaver and post celestial champion.

My only critcit is that when you create a new world, there isnt a playstyle based on lunar vs shadows yet. ( in this playstyle rifts are activated by default and maybe others changes in the settings and generation)

Dont starve together: Endgame

[Well-met]

Love everything except planar damage.

And the item sets filled with a billion chip stats

[Theukon-dos]

18 minutes ago, goblinball said:

The sad part is that I entirely get why klei is doing this since this is literally what you guys asked for 

“oh we need more late game challenges oh we need more seasonal stuff we need harder seasons”

I’ve seen ppl suggest stuff like blizzards in later winter seasons so many times and only now that this content is finally being added are ppl realizing this is a bad idea

a lot of the ppl complaining about these new betas yell that “oh klei doesn’t listen to us” when in reality klei has been listening to them too much imo

Except none of the things you listed are actually bad. And infact, I don't even hate acid rain conceptually. But destroying your structures does not a challenge make. And the thing with harder seasons is that they're supposed to come to you, not the other way around. That way the player has to take initiative to prepare for the new challenges, instead of just ignoring them because the reward for dealing with it is not having to deal with it. 

 

[chirsg]

The reward is a punishment. There isn't much that significantly has a grand effect on the world. Even the scythe which admittedly is a great addition for gathering can be outclassed by other methods.

At this point, you elect to sabotage your environment just to get a few armors and weapons. No significant structures or any real beauty in the world added.

The game simply gets harder for the sake of the game getting harder.

And even the benefits of the scythe is offset by brightshades. The grass tufts that are typically manually placed to get them closely placed will eventually get infected and would have been harvested by the scythe if not for the brightshades would have taken either just as long or faster than manually picking by hand. What the hell incentive is that?

Your planar damage weapons are arguably weaker than a dark sword with a bit of synergy/character perks on normal bosses.

The challenge is for the sake of challenge and nothing more. 

You turn it on if you want fight things for no incentive. 

One of the least rewarding fights in the game is the nightmare werepig, but I do the fight because I happen to find it very fun and it isn't extremely disruptive to the entire cave system, but I have my criticisms. This isn't the case for the rifts/cave rifts.

All of us say this because we love the game. 

Look 

I'm not going to criticise the game like this if I hate the devs and I hate the game. These hours speak for itself. 

And the money spent on skins is no slouching point either.

I've seen other games lose their way. No matter what any of us here say, casual audience is going to be the cash cow. Klei could lose all of the 1000+ hour players and would arguably be even more profitable, but I think those of us who put the care we do in the game are the heart. 

It's a good game.

I don't want to stop playing if this pattern persists, but I can't speak for the values I will hold in the future.

Survivability is once more, absolutely not in jeopardy if a rock falls all over my base and destroys everything, but the hours spent building really just isn't worth putting any sort of love into the game.

Personally, it only breeds contempt.

[Dragonboooorn]

Honestly? I like the entire theme of choosing between Charlie and Wagstaff Dont starve, game might get its conclusion soon, we might even get to know the aftermath of Forge and Gorge events. 

DST also feels less "secure" with rifts happening all around, and caves became more danger too. I like these changes.

But what I hate? Planar damage. Idk why Klei added planar defense to new mobs, forcing player to use new weapons instead of making them intresting and unique. Jeez, just rework entire combat system.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, dois raios said:

I am very happy that there is content post fuelweaver and post celestial champion.

My only critcit is that when you create a new world, there isnt a playstyle based on lunar vs shadows yet. ( in this playstyle rifts are activated by default and maybe others changes in the settings and generation)

Why would there need to be I mean seems like the current settings already fill all the niches adding the lunar and shadow stuff can be done in the settings not really a reason for a preset for it.

16 minutes ago, Dragonboooorn said:

But what I hate? Planar damage. Idk why Klei added planar defense to new mobs, forcing player to use new weapons instead of making them intresting and unique. Jeez, just rework entire combat system.

Gotta disagree here the combat mechanics of the new mobs are pretty interesting especially the one that eats you.

[GelatinousCube]

5 hours ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

f they added a speedboost with the new hood at the cost of draining sanity that would have been way better than what it does now which just boosts damage for the scythe and protects from acid rain

A few players have tested it and the hood doesn't even protect from acid rain 

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Even the scythe which admittedly is a great addition for gathering can be outclassed by other methods.

I've been meaning to ask this but what outclasses this? The gathering part I mean.

22 minutes ago, chirsg said:

The game simply gets harder for the sake of the game getting harder.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing plenty of games give a option to make things harder without massive rewards some people like challenge believe it or not. 

24 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I've seen other games lose their way. No matter what any of us here say, casual audience is going to be the cash cow. Klei could lose all of the 1000+ hour players and would arguably be even more profitable, but I think those of us who put the care we do in the game are the heart. 

I really hate this argument being thrown around so much as it implies only one set of player matters and only that type of player uses end game content which is just plain false and leads to bad business practices. That aside how is this going to kill the casual community it's like saying adding a hard mode setting to a game will cut it's sales in half.

[chirsg]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I really hate this argument being thrown around so much as it implies only one set of player matters and only that type of player uses end game content which is just plain false and leads to bad business practices. That aside how is this going to kill the casual community it's like saying adding a hard mode setting to a game will cut it's sales in half.

Re-read what I said. The casual community will stay. The hard core ones are at risk of leaving.

I won't answer any of your other questions because your mind is made up and if I reveal more efficient methods, they may get patched.

[Yuuko]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I've been meaning to ask this but what outclasses this? The gathering part I mean.

 

The two coming to mind to me are a grass gekko farm and twiggy tree farm IF properly set up.  These are both a bit difficult to set up, although considering the penalties of getting the scythe are quite high I think they win there.  Both farms take as much time to gather resources from as it takes to pick them up since there is no harvesting animation.  You can combo them with a lazy gatherer and definitely best the scythe.  That doesn't mean the scythe is bad as a lot of people would probably enjoy it more b/c its cool and fun (I love it.)  Scythe also works with Wicker/Max to exceed those productions since you can refresh the base grass and twig plants quickly with their books and use the scythe +  lazy gatherer method (+ shadow harvesters) to pick it all up quicker.