Dst lacks something, but I'm not sure what

[Szczuku]

In this thread I'll post some ideas but they are mostly there to get a point across

In case you don't know- in the newest beta Klei has added a 'Relax Mode' to dst. Darkness, hunger, temperatures cannot kill you and other facilities, that a newbie might desire. Yes, this is yet another example of Klei blatantly spitting on the 'uncompromising, wilderness survival' aspect of dst. It is even more obvious considering that, while new options in the world creation menu have been added, you can only make stuff easier with them. Apparently your only choices are 'normal' and 'easy'. The devs didn't even think to include a 'hard' option. (I haven't been able to check the beta myself so correct me if this is false)

However, there is potential in all this. Because now there is a lower chance that new players will get discouraged with the game and leave (Klei losing potential profit), which means that they'll most likely become good players. Good players that are tired of the game. And old players might actually be more profitable than new ones. Infinite growth is a lie Klei. If dst didn't keep me coming back I wouldna gotten into ONI and Griftlands. So now that you've secured new players you could focus on the experienced ones. Point is: many people have been for many years now asking the devs to, for example, rework old mechanics (so far only farming has been done), polish the mainland and caves, bring back the darker aesthetic and uncompromising gameplay. But every new content we get just feels like it's  being just stacked on top of each other, like puzzle pieces held with glue. Maybe its because of the 'monthly updates' approach that Klei has taken. They design content only with its own update in mind, lunar crafting is still as useless as it was in 2019. I'm surprised that there hasn't been a proper 'big update divided into 4 smaller updates, each one added a month'-type thing yet. Yeah, I guess you could count the ocean but so far most of the ocean stuff can exist separately. Salty Dog/Troubled Waters could've never happened and Waterlogged or Moon Quay wouldn't be affected by it. Delete deerclops from the game, however, and suddenly spring becomes more challenging. I liked the NR approach to updates- you'd get a boss in the grasslands, fences you can use anywhere, pets in the mosaic biome, mobs that only spawn near winter. Stuff that wasn't really that related to each other and yet the updates felt... like they changed dst. Now it feels like a new piece has just been duct taped into the game. Only QoL updates have that NR vibe.

The addition of the 'goo-goo, gaa-gaa' mode should mark the end of Klei adding things to make dst easier. 

Instead they should start adding content that expands on already established parts of the game.

Klei give yourselves a break from trying to brainpower how Wagstaff made a thing happen or making Charlie wake up from her year-long naps so that she can be relevant in the lore again. Add new things that can be simply explained with 'yeah, that's just a part of the world that's always been there'

Lackage #1 Change, Randomness

I could show you Constant day 1, day 100 and day 1000 and the only differences would be: 1- changed moon cycle cuz CC was defeated a Wicker player felt like it and 2- shadow war in the lunar grotto. So far the later is the only example of 'permanent change' in the world as consequences of the player's actions (think Terraria's WoF and hardmode or Hollow Knight's infected crossroads). The world of dst is very stale and predictable once you've seen it a few times. Things like alternative sprites for stuff seem like something easy to make and they really help make the world feel more alive. And the devs know it. Driftwood, portal pieces, ancient lunar statues all have multiple sprites but stuff like trees or boulders gets a hue change at best. Maybe some new sprites could activate after set amount of days pass.

Random events and the world changing can really go a long way in making a player interested, Klei.

Problem #2 Immersion

Pretty simple- we have tropical plants that fruit in winter. Only rabbits actually change their appearance once winter hits, wish more mobs did that. Meteor showers can happen outside of the meteor field (which is also incredibly annoying). No seasonal variants of the farming music (or at least a winter version of it). Some mobs (like spiders) lack idle animations. Very few interactions between mobs and the environment, like buzzards hunting rabbits, bearger harvesting food from plants or batilisks flying into the cave lights underground during dusk

Issue #3 Challange

It's not even a case of "developer! i am too good at the game, make it hard so that i can feel like im playing it for the first time again!", dst really lacks any serious, persistnet challange or danger. A good challange is the same as a good downside- it can create a unique experience for the player. Think how cool it was back in the ds days when Klei added Winter or Ruins. A whole season with fresh new appearance of the world, music, new invisible meter to worry about and being forced to come up with new food sources since berries and carrots are gone. A whole new shard of permanent night, its own cycle, enemies, biomes, loot and lore. Furthermore challanges creates a room for solutions, potential easy ideas for future content: rain -> eyebrella, freezing -> scaled furnace. One instance that I really like is Ice-fling-o-matic: it helps you in the summer but in order to craft it you need to save some ice all the way from winter. That's uncompromising challenge and solution, didn't save any ice? well too bad, you'll have to deal with smoldering by hand.

Here is an example idea of what I think winter should become in the future (with above ideas in mind):

Spoiler

- Durring winter more mobs change their apperance: pigs wear fur, beefalos are covered in snow (like real life bisons), bunnyman become more fluffy (increasing the drop rate of puffs). Moleworms' trail of dirt becoms a trail of snow. If given one, Crabby Hermit wears warm clothing. Tallbirds look like they're cold (because they're a failed experiment, they have no adaptations for winter). Volt goat also get more fluffy

-Many mobs' respawn times get longer: pigs respawn 8 days after being killed, bunnyman 3 days. Spiders' nests don't grow durring winter and it takes 180 seconds instead of 90 to respawn a spider, only half the spiders come out to patrol at dusk. Buzzards disappear durring winter. Moleworms and rabbits take 3 days to respawn. This is to sell the idea of constant becoming still during winter, of life slowing down

-Many plant-based food sources become unusable- banana bushes, stone fruit bushes (the fruit, a rock, might be immune to cold but the bush itself isn't), figs and cacti don't regrow during winter, as do monkey tails. Kelp still grows, as it's in the ocean.

-What about 'saved' food? Untouched berry bushes, carrots, flowers, bananas, figs or bee boxes would be fine for the first few days but after that the cold becomes harsher and those things would change their sprites to appear 'frozen' (blue hue and some ice particles). Harvesting them after that would only yield ice. However fire would thaw them out, be it a campfire or just lighting some sticks. A player that thinks outside of the box is rewared. LIke I said, stone fruits are rocks so they can stay safe on the bushes the entire season... untill they crack that is.

-Farming music has a winter version, that's sounds more distressing and sorrowful

-Now, onto food. I'm sure many of you are ready to type 'That sounds really unfun, is a new player supposed to eat ice?', I mean... maybe.  A new player is sure to die the moment winter begins, as is tradition of this game. Let me give you a bigger picture:

If you've saved up some food from the autumn then you're not that affected by aforementioned changes. Honey lasts a long time, so do uncooked birchnuts and jerky. Experienced players will set up farms, ready to do a winter combo and get some veggies. But what about the people that didn't prepare, those that rushed ruins or had poor time management? Survival begins. In winter you have to go further and further to gather grass and twigs. Yeah, that but for food. Players would be challenged to fight dangerous mobs like beefalos or groups of pigs or go on koalefant hunts if they want some big meat. Maybe even sail out to catch some fish. Slower respawn rates mean that even a pig/bunnymen farms would slow down production (Now, granted, if you've set them up, you're good on food but a decent player, not yet experienced enough for these farms, could go on a killing spree to the pig village for some meat but this tactic wouldn't be available for the next 8 days).  Rabbits and moleworms still function as sources of morsels, but those are only useful with a crockpot. Players that know how to get the most out of food are rewarded with health, sanity and turning poisonous ingredients into healthy meatballs.

Like I said, a challange gives way to solutions. New forageable- Winter Roots (or some better name) start appearing all over the map after 2 days of winter. Can be dug up with a shovel. Eaten raw are like carrots, cooked give 10 sanity. However they shine the most in the crockpot. Can be used as filler in meat dishes for Wigfrid, a vegetable for Wurt and has some special recipes on their own. Root, carrot and potato give you sanity-restoring soup. Morsel, 2 roots and ice result in 'Winter's Stew' essentially a better Bunny stew. Winter Roots are best used as a filler for good dishes but a struggling player could still get something of value just from the food that's most common in winter.

Snowstorms and Snow piles. The aforemontioned 'harsher cold' would also bring snowstorms that sometimes happen. Don't worry, not a reskinned sandstorm. Snowstorms don't slow you down and only block 10% of your vision. However they leave behind snow piles. Walking through them would slow you (and most mobs) down and steal your warmth. Shovel them to get rid of 'em. You'd get some ice and snow (which can be crafted into snowballs, that function both as a fun activity and as an easy way to trigger mobs, throwable, don't do damage) and sometimes there would be some goodies to find. The loot would include a morsel in a form of a rabbit's corpse that appears as if you've just killed it, a pigman's corpse and its usual loot, 2 birchnuts, some basic resources, beefalo wool, talbird egg and a trinket.

-Reworked Deerclops. It should be more than just 1 attack and massive insanity aura.

-Winter on the ocean. So far the ocean feels like it's distanced from the rest of the game, seasons arrive and the only thing that changes is a fish. Sooo... introducing glaciers, a new hazard for your boat. How exciting! Ok but for real, this is such an obvious piece of content I'm surprised it's not in the game yet. Glaciers would sometimes contain a frozen mob, from ancient times. As the winter ends they would melt and the mobs would be free to populate the Constant's sea or maybe even mainland if they're amphibious. They'd then randomly spawn as every other mob after the first winter. You can mine the glacier to get rid of it and if there's a mob inside it you'd free it prematurely, an easy way to fight them, instead of having to wait for them to spawn. New mob, new loot, uses for loot.

-I mentioned earlier that Pigmen would take longer to respawn during winter. Less football helmets, a good opportunity for the devs to add a new head armor to the game. Issue -> solution

So yeah, that is more or less what I think would be beneficial to dst. Stuff that feels like it nicely connects with everything and isn't just its own bubble somewhere offshore.

Just because something is challenging doesn't mean that it's bad for the game... especially if you can just turn it off whenever you like.

As for a 'harmode' option for dst. Klei, look and learn from Terraria. 4 difficulty settings for worlds and 3 for characters, a lot of secret seeds which alter the gameplay and create a new experience. 

Idk, this is how I feel. Are you guys satisfied with new updates,would you like some changes/additions to existing stuff or maybe you have something completely different in mind?

[Mike23Ua]

“troubled waters” was supposed to make the ocean of dst less of a peaceful safe haven, Curse of Moon Quay was supposed to do this as well- unfortunately.. the game has been on “Easy Mode” for a while now and that’s even BEFORE this new Beta setting is added.

What do I mean? Well uhh Water Alligators are Passive Unless you attack them, Sharks rarely spawn anywhere except in deep ocean with nothing of any real interest anywhere nearby.. Pirate Raids only happen when closing in close to their Island.

To put it simply The Don’t Starve Franchise has become a Shell of its former self and I honestly think it’s because Klei (or Klei’s higher ups..) listen just a little TOO MUCH to fan feedback instead of doing and making their own thing.

I would’ve loved for them to have done an entire DLC themed around the Lunar Horrors, I would’ve loved to see the grand scale of that concept, but instead.. we got a few complaints and Klei shut the whole concept down.

This is an example of listening TOO MUCH to fan feedback..

Im Old school okay? I remember going to EB Games to buy a Sonic or Mario cartiridge based game- but if there was a enemy mob, or a difficult level I couldn’t pass I couldn’t just complain on the developers forums to have it made easier or removed- those things were a core part of the game I purchased and I either learned to like it… or I found a different game to play.

When it comes to Klei however they listen so much to fan feedback or the try to casualize things so much that the franchise becomes a shell of what it started out as..

And what scares me is that these changes don’t just effect DST, some of these changes have even “leaked” their way into Solo DS and it’s dlc expansions- which at THIS POINT in that games life cycle should be held like a holy sacred grail and shouldn’t be tampered with.

I would’ve hated playing games as a kid if the game I was playing could be altered/changed based on community feedback.. imagine playing Sonic and then a few people complain the screen moves too fast or something- imagine what would’ve happened in that scenario..

I guess my point is: Fan Feedback is good, but it shouldn’t sway development from Klei’s own vision.

(Sorry I needed to vent a little stress, thanks for reading if you read this all the way through! )

[BezKa]

I'm gonna have a heart attack, there's so much salt in this post. It's hard to take what people say seriously, when they phrase it like a teenager smack talking their teacher.

But i do agree on many points, and honestly we share the approach- except i have been hopeful from the moment i read relaxed mode was added. I think it's fantastic. Any time now someone mentiones new players, we can wave them off to the new game mode. The lack of hard mode is also great- it will prevent the community tearing itself apart over who plays the "normie default" and who "super duper hardcore starving" version of the game. And this is in fact the perfect opportunity for Klei to focus on "veterans" in the main game, while noobs can learn and join them later.

I personally want Klei to finish the roadmap without much changes to the plan, get the reworks done, Set up the Stage, keep up with the events. Maybe next year, or some other, i think many people wouldn't mind a polishing update that addresses old content, rebalances some numbers with the whole game in mind, adds some small details that make the game feel more whole.

But who knows how it'll go, after Tencent i am doubting sometimes they have as much freedom as they claim.

[Well-met]

so basically you want uncomprom mod

[Capybara007]

I wonder if these kinds of threads do expect something in return

[Mr Giggio]

Try this

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2039181790

[Milordo]

The 'goo-goo, gaa-gaa' mode  had me dying ngl xD

[Evelo]

The more familiar you are with the game the easier it becomes.
Dark Souls games are touted as being incredibly difficult. However people beat the game using Morse code or potato chips as their input/controller.
If/When Klei adds harder content people will either complain about it being too hard (as seen with Moon Quay), or master it over time and feel the game is too easy again.

[abrocator]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

“troubled waters” was supposed to make the ocean of dst less of a peaceful safe haven, Curse of Moon Quay was supposed to do this as well- unfortunately.. the game has been on “Easy Mode” for a while now and that’s even BEFORE this new Beta setting is added.

Correct me if I’m wrong (and maybe things have changed) but don’t you avoid things like raid bosses when playing solo? I don’t understand why you are so active on these difficulty topics when you seem to not be playing a lot of the content that the game has to offer.

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

What do I mean? Well uhh Water Alligators are Passive Unless you attack them, Sharks rarely spawn anywhere except in deep ocean with nothing of any real interest anywhere nearby.. Pirate Raids only happen when closing in close to their Island.

You have these difficulty suggestions that are very idiosyncratic. Most people seem to ask for things that you can either anticipate or seek out: seasonal challenges can be anticipated, and new and difficult biomes need to be seeked out. But you come up with these Wile E. Coyote suggestions and randomness tweaks—what if an angry owl had a 5% chance of spawning from an evergreen??—that I see no other veteran player suggest, and which are much more appropriate for beginner players simply because “omg that’s so random” is much more entertaining while you are learning the game. For experienced players, however, they seem to get much more annoyed by pesky random encounters (the angry owl will not kill you (if you are paying attention) so it doesn’t really make things more difficult).

Not that having idiosyncratic opinions is wrong. But I’m just mentioning it since I think it makes it unlikely for these changes to be implemented—as a veteran player you seem to be in the minority when it comes to classifying and advocating for such supposed difficulty buffs.

[maxwell_winters]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

When it comes to Klei however they listen so much to fan feedback or the try to casualize things so much that the franchise becomes a shell of what it started out as..

Not true.The community feedback actually nerfed WX because his initial rework didn't have downsides. It also changed the recipe to Wicker's books and bookcase to more expensive. Klei also nerfed Wicker's health and added a pretty noticeable downside of extra nightmare creatures spawning at low sanity. So they still care about challenge and difficulty.

Moon Quay left bad aftertaste, but it was one update. And let's be real, the raids were totally busted at the beginning. Was the nerf overturned? Absolutely. But I think the raids need a total reconceptualization. The raids themselves are fine. The idea of monkey pirates that patrol the ocean and steal your stuff is super fun and DS-like. However, the fact the game punishes you for self-defense is strange. Especially compared to depths worms/hound waves and seasonal bosses. You can just deal with them on the spot and forget about it. But monkey raids make you stop whatever you're doing, go to one specific point on the map and, if you're unlucky, wait 2 days until the bananas on the island grow. It all feels too much. I hope the devs temporarily froze the raids to figure out the better way to implement them. 

[Guille6785]

the problem with adding a new forced mechanic for the sake of "difficulty" is that jazzy will have made a video about how to counter it within a week and suddenly we'll be back at square one, old players will yet again think that the game's too easy and predictable, rinse and repeat for every change to existing content that you're suggesting

if changes like the ones you suggest get implemented, sure it'll take you a bit of time to adapt, but be honest and ask yourself if you'll still think they're "challenging" 2 weeks after the update when you've already gotten used to the slight change in gameplay loop and you can autopilot the game once again

and that's without mentioning that mechanics like snow piles would be cool the first time you see them but would just become the "new wildfires" after a while, everyone would simply be annoyed by them instead of challenged

 

but to avoid simply criticizing the post I'll drop a suggestion too, IMO instead of adding forced (and fake) difficulty via new mechanics and nerfs to existing ones, klei could add content that benefits both new and experienced players in a style similar to the ruins, aka some area or boss that you can approach at your own pace, either by preparing for a long time if you're not very good or doing it early if you have the skill to survive, with rewards that can benefit any playstyle but don't outright trivialize the remaining content

I do agree that sprite/atmosphere changes would be neat but that's beside the difficulty aspect of the discussion

[. . .]

I really like your ideas! It's really cool actually a lot of the winter ideas you had I incorporated into my mod long time ago it's cool how ppl can come up with same ideas 

[abrocator]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

but to avoid simply criticizing the post I'll drop a suggestion too, IMO instead of adding forced (and fake) difficulty via new mechanics and nerfs to existing ones, klei could add content that benefits both new and experienced players in a style similar to the ruins, aka some area or boss that you can approach at your own pace, either by preparing for a long time if you're not very good or doing it early if you have the skill to survive, with rewards that can benefit any playstyle but don't outright trivialize the remaining content

Yes. And this indeed has been the “hard mode” arc for a long while now. Fuel Weaver, Pearl’s Quest, CC—these are the “hard mode” (or “more challenging than just surviving” mode (so that people don’t get hung up on “hard”)) additions to the game. And they are quite involved! If you detail all the steps that you need to do to spawn Fuel Weaver to someone who is new to the game, he will think that you are making some deadpan joke.

I cannot understand why so many veteran players complain about this new Relaxed Mode—or Baby Mode as the very eloquent OP (“challange”) calls it—when the balance looks like this:

• Experienced players: FW, Pearl, CC, Moon Quay…
• Middling players: easier life with spoils like stone fruit bushes, bananas, …
• New players: Their very own preset and some new world gen options

How can anyone claim that the developers are “spitting” on (OP) or “trolling” (Scrimbles) veteran players?

[DaZoul]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

jazzy will have made a video about how to counter it within a week

Well then, we have located the root of the problem.

Our next move should be obvious.

[finn from human]

9 hours ago, Szczuku said:

I liked the NR approach to updates- you'd get a boss in the grasslands, fences you can use anywhere, pets in the mosaic biome, mobs that only spawn near winter. Stuff that wasn't really that related to each other and yet the updates felt... like they changed dst.

I won't lie, as someone who's been playing since before ANR, there was simply a large period of multiple years where I simply was not enjoying any DST content at all, and only since RoT has started have I actually had new substantial content that I like. ANR might have had more things in it that fit your playstyle and so feel more significant, but from my perspective it just meant every content update had something half-finished where I'd go "oh, cool! in a few months when they add the rest I bet I'll use this all the time!" followed by a few months later when it's actually just linked to another boss (no eyed deer, the reanimated skeleton, etc), with the only things that left a mark for me being small things like fences and marble beans. Meanwhile I spend nearly my entire early game on a boat, and a lot of my time later in the game using figs and barnacles and bananas and salt and etc constantly, because of how much nearly every update since the start of RoT has had an impact on me.

It always makes me sad how often threads/complaints like this will imply that experienced players all hate newer content and love ANR so so much and w/e, cause from my perspective as someone playing since 2016, I simply mindlessly played this game without enjoying it for multiple years until they introduced the ocean and stuff started getting fun again for me.

[loopuleasa]

Survival games are not games about skill.

Survival games are games about figuring out how to survive.

- Confucius, probably

[ADM]

6 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

Survival games are not games about skill.

Survival games are games about figuring out how to survive.

That means you gain in skill basically...

[loopuleasa]

6 minutes ago, ADM said:

That means you gain in skill basically...

No, you gain knowledge. You figure out the puzzle.

The execution doesn't require much more skill.

Only exception to this is some bosses, which do require execution skill.

 

Skill is basically what is required to execute on knowledge.

Survival games traditionally don't focus much on that, but on the acquisition of survival knowledge in the first place.

 

This is why Dont Starve is a very hard game for new people that don't have survival knowledge, and become easy for those that figured the game out.

Since to execute on that knowledge once you know it, you don't need much skill.

[hhh2]

It needs more amongus.

[Mike23Ua]

39 minutes ago, loopuleasa said:

No, you gain knowledge. You figure out the puzzle.

The execution doesn't require much more skill.

Only exception to this is some bosses, which do require execution skill.

 

Skill is basically what is required to execute on knowledge.

Survival games traditionally don't focus much on that, but on the acquisition of survival knowledge in the first place.

 

This is why Dont Starve is a very hard game for new people that don't have survival knowledge, and become easy for those that figured the game out.

Since to execute on that knowledge once you know it, you don't need much skill.

Most survival games also feature some sort of level up progression system where you will die and you will die and die and die until you gain enough EXP to unlock new skills and abilities so you stop dying as much-

Case in point: Playing Ark Survival Evolved until you reach like rank 15 is a frustratingly annoying repetitive experience of dying over and over again until you unlock some clothing, weapons, armor, build a house for protection, and tame a Dino to help you survive. But from 1-15 all you do is run around, learn the map.. level up but mostly Die.

Even the original Dont Starve Game had this Die, Die, Die, Gain EXP, Unlock a New Character so you gain new abilities and you Die Less, Learn how to not die as often, progression system.

Don’t Starve Together However throws most of that out the Window by having every character unlocked from the start, so your no longer earning EXP to Unlock New SKILLS.

In fact I can’t think of any survival game I’ve ever played where I didn’t earn experience and unlock new skills.

Except: DST..

But even that has weapons/armor/tools/ content/ locked behind learning how to craft them.

my point? Survival games are less about skill, and more about leveling up to LEARN more Skills to help you survive.

you can have all the knowledge in the WORLD about Ark survival evolved but I still guarantee you those first 1-15 levels are going to be an unenjoyable experience where you feel like your being spawn killed by dinosaurs continuously.

And that’s how survival games “progress”

Shipwrecked and Hamlet added some new mechanics into the game, new weather, new challenges, mobs that randomly spawn out of things you chop/mine/pick up in short: it kept you on your toes at all times.

Klei made this “No Sweat Mode” to encourage new players to keep playing the game instead of dying a few times and then never playing again- but in fact that’s not why most people from my experience anyway “Quit” the game-

I’ve bought this game for the majority of my Xbox live friends list and most of them all say the same thing: Walking around in empty biomes with nothing to do, and nothing to fight, is just boring.

An extremely beginner player (or Goo-Goo Gaa Gaa mode as OP calls it) won’t even make it to Winter without giving up on the game.

Kleis been catering to the beginners for years now- even going so far as to let them spawn into worlds with seasonal start items that help aid them in surviving.

[user1464576869]

There can be skill in planning survival, surely, decision making with the cards dealt, and gamble on bigger rewards. A survival game about knowing sounds like a done and dead game? Like you said, a puzzle, you can only solve them once, anything after is mindless, putting A into B. Why would I ever do that. That's kind of, hrm, cookie clicker I guess.

And sure, the other side of this is that you could put spice into that by making putting A into B really hard. And fair enough, that's admirable. Uh, I don't think I want that either. Personally. Not the kind of flavour of hard that DST has to offer, specifically though.

I have no idea what kind of fence I'm on here but, I'd much like DST to not be such a pointless slog of putting A into B as it is, or making that slog painful too.

There has to be a way to make putting A into B like, what's the word I'm looking for even... I guess engaging. So, choices or something...? A into B but only if C comes before D although it might be worth putting time into E if F rears it's head to improve the chances of making C consistently appear before D, so on so on.

[Szczuku]

Interesting to see that most people's main takeaway from OP is about difficulty. I mean, I don't blame you, considering that in my winter idea I did talk about scarce food and snowstorms. But that's not because I want dst to be a hard game, I want immersion. And challenge is part of it. 'Harsh winter' without difficulty is just 'winter'

Now, I'm sure that I'm looking at my ds/early dst days through pink glasses but wouldn't you agree when I say that when you played ds/t for the first it kinda naturally put you in the characters' shoes? You don't know anything about the game, you feel just like a person thrown into unfamilliar, hostile environment. And so, you become immersed in the experience. But after you become experienced, especially nowadays, dst more and more clearly looks like a video game.

Yes, there isn't really anything that the devs can do as dst is indeed nothing more than a video game. But things like taking away from the 'harsh survival' or 'dark, dangerous world' just make the issue worse. Because then the player doesn't even know what they should feel when playing the game

I don't want challenges, if I did, in the OP I'd probably list some over-the-top complicated mechanics/issues that you'd be forced to juggle at all time. But I did want winter to feel like a harsh time, when life slows down and the Constant grows quiet. And so plants stop growing, forageables freeze over and mobs respawn timers get longer. That'd create a bit of a challenge therefore I also came up with Winter Roots and a chance of food in Snow Piles. Things like alternative sprites and winter sprites are an obvious go-to when it comes to immersion

Anyway, time for quotes

18 hours ago, BezKa said:

we share the approach- except i have been hopeful from the moment i read relaxed mode was added

I suppose we do have our differences but that is exactly what I tried to communicate in the OP. Relaxed Mode means that new players are no longer an obstacle when one wants to get something 'difficult' into the game

14 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

I wonder if these kinds of threads do expect something in return

Considering how many times people praised Klei for being in touch with their fanbase and the amount of requests like mine- yeah, I do expect something. But more often than not finding out if some forumites agree with me is rewarding enough

13 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

and that's without mentioning that mechanics like snow piles would be cool the first time you see them but would just become the "new wildfires" after a while, everyone would simply be annoyed by them instead of challenged

Perhaps you're correct but comparing anything really to wildfires is just unfair. Wildfires are so universally disliked and turned off because they are a destructive mechanic. Same as disease was. Outside of 'survival' mode, there is no way to lose in dst, you can be only set back. In theory one could stay as a ghost for an entire year and wait for autumn to start fresh. But most people won't, because everyone has a certain limit to how much they want to be set back. And so just a possibility of having, even a part of, your base or decorative setpiece burn down is enough for people not to bother with wildfires. Snowstorms and Snow Piles aren't destructive, they are more or less slightly challenging but mostly there for immersion (read top of this post)

12 hours ago, abrocator said:

How can anyone claim that the developers are “spitting” on (OP) or “trolling” (Scrimbles) veteran players?

Yes, that was a hyperbole, 'Baby Mode' doesn't harm the gameplay of people that want to play other modes. But the reason why me and @Scrimbles felt a bit insulted by its addition to the game is that, for many years now, things like OP have been thrown around the forums and suggested to Klei. However we got Relaxed Mode instead, despite the fact that (at least from what I've seen) it wasn't requested of the devs. But I'm happy with it. Its existance marks the end of 'but think of the new players!' arguments. New players can now be politely redirected to the Practise Mode, while dst (hopefully) receives more content like the one I talked about in the OP

11 hours ago, sylvia wander o said:

Meanwhile I spend nearly my entire early game on a boat, and a lot of my time later in the game using figs and barnacles and bananas and salt and etc constantly

Well what do you know, I only use boats as means of transport between islands/waterlogged, figs/barnacles/ocean fish are useless to me and I gather only enough salt for the boxes. Guess we're two players that desire different things and Klei has to find a way to satisfy us both. Now ain't that game development

[Scrimbles]

12 hours ago, abrocator said:

Experienced players: FW, Pearl, CC, Moon Quay…

It makes me sad that fetch quest content is touted as content for experienced players.

[Mike23Ua]

Am I literally the only one who enjoys absolute widespread and mostly unavoidable chaos?

I never bothered to turn off Wildfires outside of wanting to just screw off and make a WintersFeast/Hallowed Nights/Cawnival-

Because in my opinion Wildfires we’re intended to be a punishing mechanic that FORCED the player to repair and rebuild after disaster.

Your forest burned down? Oh well how about chopping down those burnt trees and replanting pinecones that sort of thing.

I hear people cry “Don’t Base in the Meteor Show Noob!” But.. if that shower didn’t just happen in one particular area and could rain down into any biome- You wouldn’t be able to easily avoid it..

I sometimes even base in meteor shower fields intentionally just so I get that extra thrill of repairing/fixing what has been hit by the meteors.

Klei can’t please everyone- but they have “slowly and surely” been making features less of a threat: with things like Water Logged Tree Canopy’s to aid in combating overheating & wildfires.

Id personally like to see new mechanics added to the game like intense blizzards that freeze over the ground so you slip & glide across the icy floor.

Just some cool new stuff to make a game that was created in 2013 feel like it’s been getting some cool new ideas and features almost TEN YEARS Later.

To put that into perspective for you- we should be seeing GTA 4 Vs GTA V level differences and advancements by now.

Or at the very least 2009’s Arkham Asylum vs 2015’s Arkham Knight.

Games Evolve, new ideas are thought up and Reap What You Sow was an excellent example of taking a generic and boring farm plot- and Reinventing the wheel completely.

Klei has done this with fishing, and Boat mechanics as well..

But I’d like to see biome updates, A.I. Mob Behavior updates, How we interact with cooking updates, combat updated etc.

Basically the TL:DR- now that there’s Relaxed Mode- Crank everything else up to 11.

Toggle so meteors can fall into ANY Biome?? Yes please. 

[Spino43]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Am I literally the only one who enjoys absolute widespread and mostly unavoidable chaos?

Yeah, YOU are literally the one who enjoys things like this.

I think a lot of your suggestions just serve to annoyed and make it frustrating rather than make it challenging.