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Buff Telelocator Focus/Staff and Lazy deserter (Dont lock teleportation into characters)


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6 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Planning trips around the map is a big part of the game, though. If everyone can teleport everywhere, then why build cobblestone roads? Why use boats? Why ride beefalo?

then why did they gave those abilities to wortox and wanda

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I wouldn't mind traversing a whole island if I felt the journey offered something engaging along the way.
 
Some people have said cave biomes needs a touch-up, because all you do down there is to find the landmarks and everything else is just white-noise between those destinations, sometimes not even that, sometimes the wasteland are all in their own branch you'll never return to again. In any case, the overworld is starting to feel the same to me.
 
But it's difficult to imagine anything concrete to be done about it. Too much "engagement along the way" might just translate to obstacles and annoyances.

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2 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

then why did they gave those abilities to wortox and wanda

In the case of Wortox, it plays into the fantasy of being an impish character that transcends time and space. In the case of Wanda... I dunno, she's a pretty loaded character imo. Though how easy is it for you to teleport around the map constantly, anyway? You gonna spend 20 souls to get to Pearl's island and then what? Farm bees until you can get back off it? Have you been trying the beta Wortox much?

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39 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

except it will not

I would argue that this has already happened to some characters perks recently, for Woodie is a good example of this. Were Goose's main power, its early game ocean transportation has been made somewhat obsolete due to grass rafts allowing the same easy access to the ocean on day one. It could be even argued that Were Beaver's powers have diminished due to Palm Cone Trees not spawning tree guards, while being easy enough to farm, hurting one of Were Beavers main perks. 

With his utility diminished Woodie is less unique and impactful and would make other characters more enticing for they have more interesting perks that aren't redundant with what you already can do.

This doesn't mean I don't agree that teleportation shouldn't be added in DST for all characters, it should just not be as impactful and effortless as Wortox and Wandas own gimmicks. Take for example bunnymen and merms, whilst Bunnymen are strong and make good fighters, nothing beats merms combat abilities, making Wurt viable when player options are given.

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4 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

In the case of Wortox, it plays into the fantasy of being an impish character that transcends time and space. In the case of Wanda... I dunno, she's a pretty loaded character imo. Though how easy is it for you to teleport around the map constantly, anyway? You gonna spend 20 souls to get to Pearl's island and then what? Farm bees until you can get back off it? Have you been trying the beta Wortox much?

its not about being easy or whatever, its about that i dont see any wrong with everyone having a way to fast travel from a to b like wortox and wanda

21 minutes ago, Pumking7 said:

This doesn't mean I don't agree that teleportation shouldn't be added in DST for all characters, it should just not be as impactful and effortless as Wortox and Wandas own gimmicks. Take for example bunnymen and merms, whilst Bunnymen are strong and make good fighters, nothing beats merms combat abilities, making Wurt viable when player options are given.

thank you

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I play DST purely solo, just having a use for the Lazy Deserter would be AMAZING. Currently I just kill Antlion every summer to avoid the sinkholes she makes. I have piles upon piles of Desert Stones that are absolutely worthless. Sure the game is Don't Starve TOGETHER but plenty of people Play Don't Starve Together Alone.

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4 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

why build cobblestone roads?

Specific locations like boss arena's can use the movement speed boost or making walkways in your base to move from your kitchen to your chests slightly faster. I guess if you can't kill antlion or head to the ruins its an alright alternative to teleporting.

4 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Why use boats?

We can't exactly walk on water yet teleporting only nullifies sailing to moon island, pearl, and moon quay.

4 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Why ride beefalo?

1000 hp mount with a set movement speed and infinite attack durability.

Having the ability to teleport doesn't make every other type of movement obsolete everything has an upside and downside.

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4 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

then why did they gave those abilities to wortox and wanda

If that was a fair comparison you wouldn't be making this thread cause you'd just be playing as Wortox and Wanda lol

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5 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

except it will not

It will. All characters were designed to be at least somewhat unique, and adding one feature to all of them will destroy this uniqueness.

Game is already more casual than during solo DS times and is more appealing to newbies, and one of the initial features were a world exploration and long trips for treasure hunting. What will be the point of creating a big world if you can simply teleport from A to B in an instant while playing Wilson? Why not create a small world instead?

In my opinion, teleporting is a pretty big simplifier of daily routine which you need to deserve. Wanda has itself built around her unique age mechanic, and crafting Ageless watches without archives or moon portal is not that simple (not talking about their inability to stack). But for overcoming that challenge you get a powerful weapon (which in old age still has less DPS than Wolfgang + Dark sword) and an ability to travel to distant point in space. Wortox has a bit simpler downsides, and thus has a bit simpler reward - can teleport by killing some bees or other weak mobs, but limited to one shard and maximum distance.

I know about telelocators and lazy deserters, and the only thing I would change is making a focus use 1-3 gems depending on the distance of you to focus, and about deserter... I'd use Lazy Lazy Deserter mod :p

"If everyone is OP - nobody is OP" - © some guy on the internet.

tl;dr Read 1st paragraph.

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1 hour ago, Duck986 said:

It will. All characters were designed to be at least somewhat unique, and adding one feature to all of them will destroy this uniqueness.

with that logic pigs and bunnies shouldnt exists because they ruin wurt

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1 minute ago, Capybara007 said:

with that logic pigs and bunnies shouldnt exists because they ruin wurt

Pigs and bunnies also hate Wortox, Webber and Wonkey, while Wurt itself should have some more distinguishable perks imo. Yes, guardian merms revive in 1 day and have a better loot table compared to nerfed bunnies, but they were added in the middle of existing content, so maybe they should be adjusted instead?

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They already made woodie's perks really hard to stand out when they added grass raft, it completely overshadows goose form

what i am suggesting would barely affect wortox or wanda, playing as them would still be better for fast traveling, it will not overshadow them

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6 hours ago, Capybara007 said:

with that logic pigs and bunnies shouldnt exists because they ruin wurt

Pigs and bunnymen are terrible followers compared to wurts merms (sleep at different points of the day, houses more expensive, harder to recruit, slower movement, less hp, less damage, slower at chopping, cant mine, webber and wortox cant use them)

 just like telelocator focus, lazy deserter and lazy explorer are terrible ways of teleport when compared with wortox and wandas teleport methods.

However that is apart of the strength of each character, wurt/wortox/wanda. To have a better version of a thing that is already accessible to all characters.

If you add a better teleport you undermine wortox and wandas strength. And plus, not everyone thinks teleporting is the best perk in the world, cause for me wurts full seasonal immunity to everything is farrrr better in the late game than wandas teleport network. The telelocator focus is all i need to get to and from lunar island back to my base. My rider beefalo has me covered for the rest of my travels.

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1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

If you add a better teleport you undermine wortox and wandas strength.

using staves and focuses to travel around would still be mediocre compared to wanda's watches, buffing them just a very little wouldnt hurt

unlike wickerbottom who is only identified by her book, wanda has an age meter, a custom weapon, and other tools that allow her to be unique, its not like if you take the fast traveling away from her she is now gonna be forgotten

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

And plus, not everyone thinks teleporting is the best perk in the world

i would question that

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When i first played terraria before 1.4, i personally didnt really mind walking across the entire map to get places, of course it wasnt fun but i wouldnt have called it unsatisfactory. With pylons existing in that game now its hard to see how i ever tolerated wasting so much time on nothing in previous playthroughs.

The reason i bring this up is because i think a similar concept could be applied to dst so every character can fast travel without making wortox or wanda less significant.

The first thing players would need to do is set up structures to teleport to, which i think lazy deserters could accomplish since their teleportation ability doesnt work in solo play.

You also need some kind of limiting factor that doesnt let you spam them in every corner of the map without consequence (like how pylons are limited). My idea for implementing them in dst is to able able to link 2 deserters from anywhere on the map at the cost of some of your max hp, that way players need to choose their links wisely otherwise they would be playing the game at 2hp. I dont think this would make wanda or wortox less special as they would still be the only ones to teleport long distances with no lasting downsides.

Also throw on a desert stone cost per teleport so antlion's trading mechanic is less useless.

 

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A buff to the Telelocator Focus would be nice. Keep the cost, but allow we to choose which Focus we want to go.

At the moment it can't be used it Caves, it needs 3 purple gems per used, so unless you clear ruins frequently it can burn through your gem supply.

I don't know about the Lazy Deserter though, I only use it to reduce sanity on demand.

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8 hours ago, NoodlemanNed said:

You also need some kind of limiting factor that doesnt let you spam them in every corner of the map without consequence (like how pylons are limited). My idea for implementing them in dst is to able able to link 2 deserters from anywhere on the map at the cost of some of your max hp, that way players need to choose their links wisely otherwise they would be playing the game at 2hp. I dont think this would make wanda or wortox less special as they would still be the only ones to teleport long distances with no lasting downsides.

Also throw on a desert stone cost per teleport so antlion's trading mechanic is less useless.

 

My idea for deserters:

you currently can use a desert stone to travel to a lazy deserter, but only if it is activated by another player, so the idea is, a player can "leave" the deserter active, for a cost of 10% of their maximun sanity

that way most people would just use one single deserter, and the more they add, the less maximun sanity they have

its an interesting concept and it makes sure wanda and wortox are tremendously better

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In my opinion, it is usually better if a character's perks are "better" than the alternative in some way rather than being an outright replacement. The lazy explorer isn't a relevant factor here, as orange gems don't have many long term uses anyway. The deserter is neat, but it's literally just a way to gather your team together, it doesn't actually let you transport across the world, just bring your pals with you, unless you're playing in such a large group that someone is going to be at every relevant location at each time, and is also willing to actually cooperate with a request to teleport. That leaves the telelocator focus, which just doesn't compare in any relevant way. For one, it outright doesn't function in caves, you can only have one at a time if you don't plan on making some elaborate plan by measuring distances, the cost is exorbitant, and to make matters worse - it limits the use of the telelocator focus for doing things like moving vargs/grass gators/other mobs. And that's not even mentioning how heavily it conflicts with a multiplayer environment - as every player in the server has to be willing to cooperate with some sort of system. This level of discrepancy would be like every character other than wigfrid only having access to weapons that deal at most 10 per hit. Or every food that doesn't belong to warly restoring at most 5 hunger.

I don't think wanda or wortox will be threatened whatsoever as long as the downsides for a teleport are much greater than it currently is on wanda. For wortox, I feel the usual perk of "only needs souls to do x action" is already enough upside to not be threatened by something like buffing the deserter. 

So what i'd say is do something like make teleporting between deserters without a friend completely bottom out your sanity. Or make doing one of these cross-map teleportations consume a portion of an orange gem you can socket into a deserter. Or make it consume more than one desert rock. There are plenty of options to make wanda's free, inter-shard teleportation a viable choice without outright keeping this option from other characters.

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On 7/15/2022 at 10:14 PM, Capybara007 said:

i would like to test the deserter but i cant even do that because its multiplayer locked

I had a chance to play in longterm world with 1 other person and we tried to use lazy deserters. Technically it was useful in niche scenarios like when one of us came to base of the other for shadow pieces fight and to fight Twins (but even then if was more of a luxury than necessity), but concept of travelling with deserter still feels half-implemented:

1. Teleported player still has to go back on their own after teleportation - and since player is likely to have beefalo for that reason anyway, might as well ride instead of teleporting in the first place unless niche scenario;

2. One of the players still has to go through all the obstacles to destination location each time - kill tentacle/telepoof to atrium/sail - to activate deserter for other player; at this point other player might as well jump into empty tentacle hole, telepoof as well or sail together. Or not come at all (if difference in time when both are ready is too much) and help with separate activity. On practice waiting for other player (and doing other things meanwhile) or accepting solo fight/task is much more time- and resource-efficient than using deserter.

In 1200 days we played in that world we used lazy deserter for teleportation on surface 4 times (if I remember correctly, maybe it was 3 times actually), and never used lazy deserter in the caves even though we built it at Fuelweaver arena. And we did stuff: fought Twins, shadow pieces and Fuelweaver (7 times), fought Celestial Champion, farmed krampus sacks on lunar island, sailed to lunar in general, fought Toadstool multiple times, travelled between our bases in regular way a lot (bases are located at oasis (mosaic and decidious are nearby) and Dfly desert (swamp, monkey island, lunar island are nearby) and are half of the map away from each other, so we would definitely benefit from teleportation should it be actually viable). Neither of us was Wanda, no one picked Wortox (for telepoofing to atrium and activating lazy desrter in theory).

As for improvement, I think mods "lazy lazy deserter" and "the laziest deserter" do good work on rebalancing underwhelming structure. The former allows to activate lazy deserter while insane (just activation for future use, not teleportation) and then return back to the active deserter at the cost of desert stone (that would be 2-way teleportation for 2 players on the server, so 1st problem is solved, and for solo player this is quasi-solution with certain settings such as infinite shadow clone time), and the latter allows to use deserter between shards.

I wouldn't mind complete overhaul of lazy deserter and expansion of telelocator focus/staff capabilities (latter - in terms of self-teleportation). It would be cool to build viable teleportation network that is not dependant on wormholes rng and that is something more interesting than just "get X tusks and connect every location with base". It would be cool to plan around multiple limitations and possibilities, both when building network and using it. Right now there are too little possibilities for both items.

On 7/15/2022 at 10:14 PM, Capybara007 said:

i have no idea how useful deserter is but i guess its there if you want to play with people

Maybe with 3 people 1 of them could teleport in somewhat reasonable manner, and with full server of people trying to pass obelisks in atrium while not coordinated well and bad atrium generation it might be easier to activate deserter by the only person who goes in regular way.

That being said, since means of teleportation were added long time ago and devs didn't bind them to specific characters, I take it as Klei wanting players to be able to teleport regardless of character. It's just that implementation doesn't match intention.

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This also falls into the planning of playing anyway.

I know people always want to build in a specific biome or near specific set pieces But its not always going to be the case. 

Besides There is a way to do almost every characters unique trait But its always going to be worse than the specialist

Wilsons beard Wear clothing  Willows fireproof scalemail  Wendy's Aoe weather pains  Webbers spiders Queen hat  Pre buff wortox lazy explorer
Walter (darts beef and chester) Woodie / maxwell  PIgmen& glass axe & pick/axe
Wigfrid life steal BatBat

Webber and wortox not being able to use pigs
One man band....

Theres definitely more but you get my point. The general purpose stuff is not going to be better than the specialists.

Granted though I think it would be nice to touch up these items since they are rarely used.

I would say that telelocator focus should be shown on the map when you have the telestaff equipped so that  way at least you can set up a network of teleport spots.  3 uses as well for the focus for the 3 gems
Can maybe try a thing where right clicking to teleport opens the map and you have to select  the focus if the focus is not charged the telestaff would just do its normal random teleportation.

as for the deserter I personally liked what uncomp did for it which made it become a harvester as you hold it it would pick up items like the lazy forager but also harvest anything in its radius




 

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the main gripe is the staves cost and the fact that you cant have more than one focus active

i like that it costs many gems, it gives the players a reason to get smart when getting these, like i really enjoyed making my gem farm and i like to experiment with stuff to perfectionate it even more

but like i said, the staves have 5 uses which is very little, as for multiple focuses, maybe you could link a staff with a focus so when you use that staff it teleports you to the connected focus

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6 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

the main gripe is the staves cost and the fact that you cant have more than one focus active

i like that it costs many gems, it gives the players a reason to get smart when getting these, like i really enjoyed making my gem farm and i like to experiment with stuff to perfectionate it even more

but like i said, the staves have 5 uses which is very little, as for multiple focuses, maybe you could link a staff with a focus so when you use that staff it teleports you to the connected focus

I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's a mechanic where if you stand on a focus, using the staff will prioritize another focus in the world, so you can at the very least have one pair of focus's to travel between in a world. Not the most reliable but the mechanic is there.

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