Does Warly need a touch-up?

[Dr. Safety]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

 this whole thing comes down to multiple people keep citing the portal as the issue they just don't want to lose the portal in the process. 

It's definitely a complicated issue. I'll agree as I am one who loves the design of Warly's kit, loves the ability to swap characters, but hates that the existence of swapping characters undermines truly playing as Warly to begin with. While your potentially sarcastic remark about making a poll to remove the portal is a bit drastic of a change, I think this is definitely a topic worth discussing more, since there seems to be a lot of opinions regarding it.

In the event that you make that poll, I'll repeat it there, but for the sake of discussion I'll give a suggestion. If buffing Warly to have some additional personal perks is too much since he is very powerful to begin with, then my next thought is to add a cooldown to the portal. One long enough to make people consider whether switching is actually worth committing to that character, while not being so long that the portal seems like a one and done deal. 20 days seem fair? One character swap per season/ boss respawn period. This plus a fat buff to Winona would fix the issues since Winona isn't in the 'powerful yet easily exploited' category, and could use a buff regardless imo.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

While your potentially sarcastic remark about making a poll to remove the portal is a bit drastic of a change, I think this is definitely a topic worth discussing more, since there seems to be a lot of opinions regarding it.

It started out as sarcasm but as I read more peoples thoughts on this I started to feel it's probably needed.

4 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

In the event that you make that poll, I'll repeat it there, but for the sake of discussion I'll give a suggestion. If buffing Warly to have some additional personal perks is too much since he is very powerful to begin with, then my next thought is to add a cooldown to the portal. One long enough to make people consider whether switching is actually worth committing to that character, while not being so long that the portal seems like a one and done deal. 20 days seem fair? One character swap per season/ boss respawn period.

considering even pub servers often last 20 days I feel like this wouldn't do much even more so to the end game player it would probably have to be something much more extreme like once per in game year or something.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

I don't really understand why Klei removed his bonus stats from foods.

You aren't rewarded anymore for eating unique foods, you are only punished for eating repeats dishes.

IMO that's all he really deserves to have.

that "worked" in sw but now he is rewarded with many good dishes and spices. No need to make his downside weaker

9 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

Less so the portal and more so characters who are designed with only perks that can be used by anyone at a later time 

who cares?

[Cloakingsumo198]

17 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

that "worked" in sw but now he is rewarded with many good dishes and spices. 

Why doesn't it "work" in dst?

[Cheggf]

3 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

I wouldn't say that it applies to every character. You can't be Wolfgang with Maxwell's puppets and the ability to use Abigail.

But why would you need to be? You can be Wendy who switches to Maxwell whenever you run out of wood and to Wolfgang whenever you're fighting a boss which owns Abigail. You being unable to have a ghost and a shadow lumberjack at the exact same time is about as inconsequential as you being unable to have a ghost and create those dishes that you can bundle wrap. You swap to Max then get wood, you swap to Warly then get dishes. They both temporarily do something then go way way bye bye.

3 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

The issue with Warly is that this incredible power comes at the cost of really needing to know your stuff. For veterans, it's not really a problem, but new players can't just pick up Warly and be fine. Learning both the character and farming is what rewards you with all of those nifty upsides you mentioned.

I think it would be an issue if the game had no characters like that and all of them were made exclusively for new players. It's good for games to have characters which requires different levels of experience.

Unless you mean the issue is that you can get this power without playing him. Because if that's the case you're exclusively arguing that the portal is bad since if only he could eat his dishes that would suck and he would be far worse in a team environment. And also are there really people who are knowledgeable enough to kill BQ, properly mass farm Warly's stuff, mass produce it, mass bundle it, and repair the florid postern, but too bad to manage his downside? All of that is way harder. 

3 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

There isn't any incentive to actually stick to Warly though. Playing as Wilson and swapping to Warly to make his stuff and then back to Wilson is better off than just playing Warly that whole time, because Wilson isn't challenging to manage and you still get all the benefits of having learned the character.

There isn't any incentive to stay as anyone. Why play as Wolfgang when you aren't fighting bosses? Why play as Maxwell when you aren't chopping trees? Why play as Wendy when you aren't farming groups of enemies? Why EVER play as most characters I didn't just list? Because they're fun and have a variety of (blegh, vomit, oh the humanity) technically suboptimal downsides (I nearly fainted even thinking of the idea of playing a rounded character instead of swapping to different specialists every 5 minutes).

You guys are treating this game where people are using client mods to reveal the entire map, have full night vision, walk on water, be immune to CC, and various other things I'm sure exist too seriously. There is no anti cheat. There is no consensus on what is cheese and what is cheating. There is no reward for doing things speedily, nor a reward for doing them period. There aren't achievements, the game doesn't track your progress, and the game doesn't even have any explicit goals you're supposed to do. And here you guys are acting like you're gonna lose 500k dollars in tourney money if you dare to play a character because they're fun and strong instead of constantly swapping characters to optimize the gameplay. 

Look at how much Warly does. Compare everything he does to everyone else. He is one of the best characters in the game. If you don't like that you can swap, then don't. I don't. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 hours ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Why doesn't it "work" in dst?

because who needs bonus stats when you already needs less stats from food using the buff food?

fw falls before you need sanity food, beequeen cant deal you that much damage bacause you have up to x3 damage and extra armor

it will only ruin his downside

[lakhnish]

8 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

But it's the celestial portal that makes this a issue to people and there's nothing you can do but give the character a very powerful personal perk or remove the portal entirely to make people feel better it seems the issue at hand is that people don't like that Warly shares his perk even while not present therefore the way to fix it for them without adding fluff would be to remove the portal as it is the problem which is what this whole thing comes down to multiple people keep citing the portal as the issue they just don't want to lose the portal in the process. 

Yeah, I know. But removing the portal isn't something Klei is going to do (nor do I think they should).

Instead, what Klei can do and has done is push out mini-reworks for characters, like they've done for Wurt and Wormwood.

Klei is aware of these issues, so threads like these are good.

[Mysterious box]

55 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Yeah, I know. But removing the portal isn't something Klei is going to do (nor do I think they should).

Instead, what Klei can do and has done is push out mini-reworks for characters, like they've done for Wurt and Wormwood.

Klei is aware of these issues, so threads like these are good.

I mean they've removed systems that have gotten hate before so there's no saying this won't happen and Warly is in a different situation than Wurt or Wormwood in his situation he's fully fuctional, his perks and downsides are completely thematically appropriate and his perks are powerful the problem is the portal makes his powers feel unsatisfying to some players specifically the portal not how his powers work when you say mini rework I'm assuming(and could be wrong) but I'm assuming your expecting some minior personal perk being added but that wouldn't change a thing unless it's something powerful but if they make something powerful then Warly becomes too good. Even with how many people keep talking about this topic player recommendations I've seen so far have either been super minor perk additions which won't change the current reception or a indirect or direct nerf to Warly making his life harder for the sake of avoiding sharing.

We're assuming Kiel will be able to fix this without touching the portal which would be the easiest and most satisfying solution to the conflict but we don't even have a good solution to give them ideas and hey maybe Kiel can figure something out without touching the portal but if Warly gets a indirect nerf so the portal can live as someone who has never used the portal I know I won't be happy at least.

[Cloakingsumo198]

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

because who needs bonus stats when you already needs less stats from food using the buff food?

What about when you don't have any food that buff yet.

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

it will only ruin his downside

Nah.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

14 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

What about when you don't have any food that buff yet.

simple, you deal with the downside. If you want a character with upsides in the right moment you cross the portal you have many other choices

15 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

Nah.

that is your opinion, mine is different (and i have give points of why is different)

[Cloakingsumo198]

48 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

If you want a character

I want warly to be better without revolving around his buffs that takes an extreme time investment just to have "enough".

"Dealing" with warly's downside is just making 2 meaty stews and slamming them as soon you hit starving. Instead of carrying 1 healing food you arrive with multiple and a couple of buff foods. Instead of eating that carrot you picked up ya turn it into a "crapatouille".

I want warly to have a better "crapatouille" because trying to use multiple "dishes" to "recover" even just hunger is extremely ineffective. This is even worse when out in the world instead of near a full fridge since you won't always have the ingredients for the best crockpot meals.

What's the point of having a refined pallet as the downside if it's so bad at forcing you to be creative. Might as well let him eat raw foods and get practically no nutrition from them so he can at least clear his inventory.

Warly's biggest downside is having a single seed, flower, evil flower, or succulent in his inventory.

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Cloakingsumo198 said:

"Dealing" with warly's downside is just making 2 meaty stews and slamming them as soon you hit starving. Instead of carrying 1 healing food you arrive with multiple and a couple of buff foods. Instead of eating that carrot you picked up ya turn it into a "crapatouille".

Medicine exists

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Medicine exists

[Castiliano]

Oh, this discussion really interests me. I love playing Warly, but most games feel like I'm being overwhelmed. There are so many things to do all the time, hunger drops so fast (until you have a good Hibernation Vest), usually Warly has to plant a lot, whether it's to fill the fridge or for spices and his own food. Plus you have to worry about spare seeds — I wish they were more useful than ending up in compost since we can't eat them. There always seems to be a lack of time to accompany others on adventures, while we are worried all the time, always a race against time. In the end, it ends up feeling, unfortunately, that it's a character that people prefer to use only with "Moon Rock Idol". Finally, he could have more food of his own with special effects.

[Warpspeed10]

The only thing Warly needs are for his spices to also affect friendly NPCs like Beefalo, pigs, and merms.

[Mysterious box]

56 minutes ago, Warpspeed10 said:

The only thing Warly needs are for his spices to also affect friendly NPCs like Beefalo, pigs, and merms.

This would probably be borderline game breaking can you even imagine spiced merm guards they already melt bosses as is that would be horrifying...I kinda love it tho...

[Echsrick]

1 hour ago, Warpspeed10 said:

The only thing Warly needs are for his spices to also affect friendly NPCs like Beefalo, pigs, and merms.

is that not allready a thing?

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

is that not allready a thing?

No but beefalo gains the buff of the rider for dishes tho I think this may have been changed could be wrong tho.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

31 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

No but beefalo gains the buff of the rider for dishes tho I think this may have been changed could be wrong tho.

im sure they changed it (i think in one of the qol updates) so now mobs can get spice effects

[Scrimbles]

18 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

that "worked" in sw but now he is rewarded with many good dishes and spices. No need to make his downside weaker

Weaker? I was talking about an upside.

Warly used to get bonus stats from all foods.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, Scrimbles said:

Weaker? I was talking about an upside.

Warly used to get bonus stats from all foods.

Which isn't an upside, it's just making his downside less impactful. Nobody is thinking "boy oh boy, I should pick Warly since this first pierogi I eat will give me a couple extra points of health but it will quickly become worse than normal!". It was just there to make his downside easier. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

59 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Which isn't an upside

How's it not an upside?

[Psychic Chicken]

What if Warly's food spoiled inside bundling wraps (but lasted 5x longer compared to inventory) and you can only season food with a spoil timer? This would encourage staying as Warly without completely ruining the spoil times.

While we're on the topic of "swap characters", maybe every 20 days or so, Winona's generators stop functioning and Winona can fix it with no cost by clicking on it?

[Cheggf]

9 minutes ago, Psychic Chicken said:

What if Warly's food spoiled inside bundling wraps (but lasted 5x longer compared to inventory) and you can only season food with a spoil timer? This would encourage staying as Warly without completely ruining the spoil times.

While we're on the topic of "swap characters", maybe every 20 days or so, Winona's generators stop functioning and Winona can fix it with no cost by clicking on it?

What if you didn't use the portal if you don't like it? This would do literally nothing for the characters and just have you use slightly more purple gems. 

[CameoAppearance]

39 minutes ago, Psychic Chicken said:

What if Warly's food spoiled inside bundling wraps (but lasted 5x longer compared to inventory) and you can only season food with a spoil timer? This would encourage staying as Warly without completely ruining the spoil times.

While we're on the topic of "swap characters", maybe every 20 days or so, Winona's generators stop functioning and Winona can fix it with no cost by clicking on it?

Powdercake does have a spoil timer, it's just very long.

The other stuff sounds like a nuisance, honestly. Not the type of challenge that makes things more fun, just tedious, akin to digging up your plants periodically to stop disease.