What did removing 25 health and hunger from wx accomplish?

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

"Say pal.. what about me?"

My point.

 

2 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

inb4 "muh challenge character"

Are we assuming every character lower than 150 is a challenge character?

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Absolutely NOONE is going to ever die to rain unless they were bad at the game in the first place.

Even the most experienced players make mistakes. That being said I feel the way rain works currently is fine.

[Frogzard]

22 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Ok but by this logic this logic the bare minimum stats a character who isn't Wes should have is 150 even more so since characters with harsher downsides have lower stats.

Just because a downside affects less experienced players disproportionately doesn't mean it should never be used. It's all part of an ensemble, you have to look at how those downsides work with the character as a whole. It makes sense for walter because you have tools to fight more safely at range and tools to get back hunger and sanity easier. You may argue the slingshot sucks, but a newer player doesn't care to use only the best tools at any given point in time, they care to use the safer ones. I would argue it makes sense for WX because you can just increase those stats. The great thing about this WX rework is that if you're a more experienced player, you can leverage that experience to get more prong space for circuits because you won't need to use up prongs on stat boosting circuits.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Frogzard said:

Just because a downside affects less experienced players disproportionately doesn't mean it should never be used. It's all part of an ensemble, you have to look at how those downsides work with the character as a whole. It makes sense for walter because you have tools to fight more safely at range and tools to get back hunger and sanity easier. You may argue the slingshot sucks, but a newer player doesn't care to use only the best tools at any given point in time, they care to use the safer ones. I would argue it makes sense for WX because you can just increase those stats. The great thing about this WX rework is that if you're a more experienced player, you can leverage that experience to get more prong space for circuits because you won't need to use up prongs on stat boosting circuits.

I agree and possibly misunderstood the intent behind the previous comment.

[Cassielu]

They did't removing anything, they still added 25 health , 25 Hunger and 50 sanity for WX.

There were so many statistics given to WX because gears were a fairly scarce resource in the early days, and now that the problem has been resolved, it should not have been necessary to continue.

[Cheggf]

3 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

They did't removing anything, they still added 25 health , 25 Hunger and 50 sanity for WX.

WX's stats are not 100.

[Notecja]

20 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

They did't removing anything, they still added 25 health , 25 Hunger and 50 sanity for WX.

There were so many statistics given to WX because gears were a fairly scarce resource in the early days, and now that the problem has been resolved, it should not have been necessary to continue.

Only in singleplayer had 100 stats on beginning. But for years WX in DST had 150 starting stats and to that people refer. So, yeah, they removed.

[Baark0]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m not about to quote all this- so I’ll just say my part.

Rain being deadly to WX78 just makes all the sense in the world, it’s not a human, it’s not a swamp monster, it’s not a plant boy.. it’s a ROBOT made of Metal, Electronical wiring, Cogs & Gears: You ever left your IPhone out in the rain? Unless you put rain protective covering over it- it’s probably going to die. Rain is such an easily negated downside (Umbrella+ Football Helmet or Eyebrella or Parasol+Straw Hat+ Standing under a Tree) 

Absolutely NOONE is going to ever die to rain unless they were bad at the game in the first place.

however: By rain being deadly to WX78 it makes you play the game a different way (by actually needing to use that parasol+Straw Hat+ Tree protection) then when you swap to Wormwood or Wurt you can play a completely different way by running around enjoying the Rain.

THIS ISNT A NERF ITS A WAY TO MAKE THE CAST FURTHER UNIQUE.

Secondly.. the lowering of base stats was probably to make equipping stat upgrade circuits feel more appealing (YOU may not need them because your good at the game and can survive with Wes Stats, but for a NEW Player or an inexperienced player: That stat boosting circuits going to be a nice upgrade.)

I think the wetness changes are good, pre refresh wx would never die to rain, and according to forum people it's a threat now, which i think is good.

[Mike23Ua]

32 minutes ago, Notecja said:

Only in singleplayer had 100 stats on beginning. But for years WX in DST had 150 starting stats and to that people refer. So, yeah, they removed.

True but they also removed some from Wolfgang, I personally don’t see what the big deal is.

You wouldn’t want the base stats to be so low that people who can’t figure out how to upgrade have an absolutely miserable time trying to play WX , but at the same time you don’t want it’s stats so good that the stat boosters don’t feel appealing.

There has to be a middle ground.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

just install gastro module :3

[loopuleasa]

Loss aversion

People apparently really hate losing stuff, and hate change

WX originally had 100 stats, but due to a PAX demo of DST the devs made the stats higher for noobs playing, and they forgot to add it back.

[00petar00]

The main point why everyone is against such changes including me is because WX-78 was nerfed hard compared to what he was before, while he doesn't require help to access his abilities and he needed a nerf if you consider how strong he would be if you could access his full power that he had before refresh.

Now if we talk about why he has 100 stats in DS it was because he had gears and while it was a bit boring, the idea was that he would grow these stats and overcharge was more of a nice bonus on top that would allow him insane power if he managed to get it, with hamlet he was probably the strongest character with how easy it was to overcharge him.

Experienced players won't really care about health as long as it is over a certain number that would result in you dying in one hit, hunger is a bit annoying to have lowered but not an issue and sanity doesn't matter. The lower stats are of any character, the less you should recommend him to anyone new to the game.

Stats are more of a nuisance and they are literally just a cushion on how much you can go before you need to manage them, if someone has 100 or 400 health,  you will still use the same amount of healing food.

Its a bad idea to lower the stats of WX-78 expecting and wanting people to use stat circuits, stats can never surpass the other abilities that would allow him to conserve on resources he needs to survive in general and speed that allows him to gather more resources in a given time frame compared to not using speed circuit.

One thing i forgot to talk about is that i don't mind the rain/wetness change, that is an unique downside that fits him.

[BonesJrOfficial]

Lower stats than Wilson is a great design. WX has always been intended on being a Upgrade stats overtime character. Giving them all the stats they need from the get-go really defeats the purpose. Plus I think people forget that these upgrades come with stat regeneration or hunger slowing etc.

The 3 truths to WX are, growing stats over time -functioning based on human anatomy, hating 'most' living things - loving robot friends, and being susceptible to the rain. 

Now I'm not against changing his design philosophy, however i doubt the devs really want to after a decade.

Before this rework, WX was one of the most selfish characters, and now they have several team helping advantages. From light, to warm/cold, and sanity/gardening. It's really exciting to see the evolution of this character. No more are the days of utilizing all the gears and reeds(books). I think this is great.

PLUS stats never really effect the pro players anyways. (Ie Wanda, and low gear / flawless boss fights- most players don't play on this level) They still have the option to opt for the old selfish WX playstyle, it's just not as potent as it was before, and I think that's fine. Wolfgang just had something similar happen, and I think he's in a better place than ever, despite losing his speed... AND WX can still have ludicrous speeds, which by itself is a massive advantage by itself, we know because the community roared over Wolfgang losing his. 

Honestly I am a fan of having players needing to actually play the game. Dodging rain.. caring about seasonal weather. Etc. No other character gets to have their cake and eat it too. That isn't the type of game this is. This is an uncompromising survival game. 

[lakhnish]

The fact that people are complaining about it while having new & cheap options to increase the stats inadvertently and ironically proves that it was the right choice lmao.

[Cheggf]

1 hour ago, lakhnish said:

The fact that people are complaining about it while having new & cheap options to increase the stats inadvertently and ironically proves that it was the right choice lmao.

They should buff his stats to 126. When people complain about such a pointless change it will prove it was a good thing and he should have 126 stats for some reason.

[Mike23Ua]

9 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

They should buff his stats to 126. When people complain about such a pointless change it will prove it was a good thing and he should have 126 stats for some reason.

Real talk here- People always compare the reworks to Wilson- Whom we all know has NOT been reworked yet.

Why is that Important? Because Wes HAS been Reworked.. 

https://dontstarve.fandom.com/wiki/Wes

Wolfgang was also reworked- What Wes & Wolfgang share in common was a reduction to their stats.

If Wes is the lowest tier to compare towards, while Wilson has been the center determining if it’s above or below Wilson average: Then WX78’s stats rather buffed or reduced… will ONLY make sense when we see if Wilson’s are also buffed/reduced.

[Baark0]

1 hour ago, lakhnish said:

The fact that people are complaining about it while having new & cheap options to increase the stats inadvertently and ironically proves that it was the right choice lmao.

Its almost like people dont want to waste their slots on stats instead of using other perks like night vision, light, temperature, or speed.

[lakhnish]

Just now, Baark0 said:

Its almost like people dont want to waste their slots on stats instead of using other perks like night vision, light, temperature, or speed.

Ok, there's nothing preventing you from using only those other perks you listed. 

The number one complaint I see with the stat change is people can't eat Meaty Stew anymore, which isn't true since you can A) still eat it but lose out on 25 hunger or B) plug in a single 1 slot hunger module and have more than enough hunger.

If I were to guess based on what you're writing, most people are still gonna go for 2 speed modules or if it's season related module. So we're at either 2 or 1 extra module respectively.

You can literally just equip 1 or 2 of those modules that personally annoy you the most. 

But again, you literally just proved my point! Lowering that stat modules made you want to pick them and made them more valuable, as it sounded like you were never gonna pick them before and were just gonna use the others you listed!

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, lakhnish said:

The fact that people are complaining about it while having new & cheap options to increase the stats inadvertently and ironically proves that it was the right choice lmao.

I think the point has flown right over your head. 

People aren't against it because it can be easily overcome. Pleople are against it because it changes nothing.

Whats funny is that what made me like the stat modules is that you can take top one off without disturbing the other modules. 

Most will use the 1 slot module because literally nothing else fits.

[lakhnish]

14 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

People aren't against it because it can be easily overcome. Pleople are against it because it changes nothing.

21 minutes ago, Baark0 said:

Its almost like people dont want to waste their slots on stats instead of using other perks like night vision, light, temperature, or speed.

This doesn't sound like changing nothing :>

[HowlVoid]

8 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Ok, there's nothing preventing you from using only those other perks you listed. 

There wasn't anything preventing people from using the stat modules either, whether you had low stats or not.

8 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

The number one complaint I see with the stat change is people can't eat Meaty Stew anymore, which isn't true since you can A) still eat it but lose out on 25 hunger or B) plug in a single 1 slot hunger module and have more than enough hunger.

The number one complaint I see recently is that lowering the stats didn't change anything.

8 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

If I were to guess based on what you're writing, most people are still gonna go for 2 speed modules or if it's season related module. So we're at either 2 or 1 extra module respectively.

How was this any different when the stats were higher? If you thought that 10% speed was not worth it and wanted hunger how was it any different whether you had 150 or 100 hunger? Is it perhaps, maybe, just maybe, of something called personal preference...?

There will be those who will stack another 2 slot speed in there.

8 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

You can literally just equip 1 or 2 of those modules that personally annoy you the most. 

Yeah, 1 slots are because literally nothing else would fit. It would be stupid to have 1 empty slot for no reason, has nothing to do with lower stats. 

8 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

But again, you literally just proved my point! Lowering that stat modules made you want to pick them and made them more valuable, as it sounded like you were never gonna pick them before and were just gonna use the others you listed!

How did he prove your point lmao? They're clearly saying people don't choose stat modules because there are better clear choices, the stat change didn't affect that at all.

[Cheggf]

22 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

But again, you literally just proved my point!

No he didn't. Even if he said he would equip the stat mods, which he didn't, that doesn't prove anything. The stat modules are still boring and uninteractive, even if someone equipped one just because someone equips them doesn't mean that it was a good change. They could make all his stats 50 and he only has 4 capacity, too. Then the 3 people who played wx would probably just be Wilson with weird messed up stats because there's no room to do anything else. It wouldn't mean that 50 stat 4 capacity wx was good or fun.

And if people equipping the stat mods proves they're good then that proves lowering his stats was bad because people already equipped those useless things at 150 base stats.

[HowlVoid]

1 minute ago, lakhnish said:

This doesn't sound like changing nothing :>

?

People don't want to waste slots on flat stat increases?

Maybe you want to read that again?

Causation does not imply correlation, people don't want to waste slots on them because they're not useful, not because they're stats are now lower. That was the problem then, that's the problem now.

Didn't you say that the lower stats where to incentivise stats modules. Then told chefegg that it wasn't to do that, and are now advocating that it's to incentivise stat modules? 

You really do go back and forth.

[lakhnish]

13 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Didn't you say that the lower stats where to incentivise stats modules. Then told chefegg that it wasn't to do that, and are now advocating that it's to incentivise stat modules? 

You really do go back and forth.

Me: Lower stat changes would incentivize stat modules AND would make WX a little more dangerous.

Others: Lowering stats won't incentivize stat modules (I can respect that logic, but I don't agree with it).

Also others: Admit to saying that they are now debating over the stat modules rather going pure other non-stat modules.

You (& Me): "[you] are now advocating that it's to incentivise stat modules?" Ie. you're repeating the same thing that I italicized above?

It looks like I've been consistent this whole time?

Edit: I don't see the part where I told chegg it wouldn't do that. My last sentence in that statement above says it. Did I say it previously? 

[HowlVoid]

16 minutes ago, lakhnish said:

Me: Lower stat changes would incentivize stat modules AND would make WX a little more dangerous.

Others: Lowering stats won't incentivize stat modules (I can respect that logic, but I don't agree with it).

Also others: Admit to saying that they are now debating over the stat modules rather going pure other non-stat modules.

You (& Me): "[you] are now advocating that it's to incentivise stat modules?" Ie. you're repeating the same thing that I italicized above?

It looks like I've been consistent this whole time?

Edit: I don't see the part where I told chegg it wouldn't do that. My last sentence in that statement above says it. Did I say it previously? 

It was days ago and I don't want to waste my time looking for it.

Also who's debating over the stat modules except me?

What ended up incintivizing the stat modules for me was the ability to dump them on a whim without desturbing the useful ones. Had this change been implemented and the stats where still 150 I would still enjoy them as favorable because they are easy to swap out (well except slurpers module when you run out and have to kill fw for the 6th time).

Had nothing to do with the lowering of the stats. The are better ways to incentivece them than something so mundane as lowering all the stats which absolutely does not increase the difficulty. I'm surprised that I have to tell you of all people. Had there been 1 additional slot that only allows for stat modules then it would been a better idea, then you're only using that slot and possibly the one before it. There are so many ways to go about it differently but Klei choose the absolute most tedious and unoriginal option. Klei really thinks that lowering the stats is going to make them better which is very, very unfortunate.

[lakhnish]

13 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

[snip]

Alright, I understand that and fully respect it.

For the additional slot, I did advocate for 1 more of that as well!

B/c it's beta, they can change the stats as well after more feedback from people.

Spoiler

I looked at my replies for Chegg, I still see myself saying the same thing :shrug: 

In the spoiler since I think we are both done with this convo.