Winona and Wagstaff.

[Cuernito.]

Hello again forum. 

I recently see some posts discussing about the protagonists of this game so i just wanted so say something about it. First allow me to explain to you whats a protagonist and this is not gonna be my opinion, this is goning to be a fact, a concept. A protagonist is the main character of a story. Yeah i know its really simple, and thats the magic, a protagonist doesnt really have to carry the story or even do something important, he only need to be the focus on a story, we can see his perspective of an story but he doesnt have to do all the important things, he can only do important things from his perspective. I know its a hard thing to understand but bear with me for a little. What i mean is that the protagonist of a story is the person that the autor wants to be the protagonist, it doesnt matter if the protagonist is good, bad, idiot, or even useless, the thing is a protagonist is defined as that by his autor.

Why i made this? well cause some people on forum have shown me that the hate towards a protagonist can be stronger that the coherence.

Yeah of course im talking about Winona, im not gonna try to discover why people dont like this character, i dont really care, but the true is that she is the protagonist of this story and im gonna explain you why.

In the first game Dont starve RoG she didnt exist, and why? Well cause the story was about Wilson and Maxwell, the main plot was Wilson trying to get out of the constant and Maxwell trying to prevent that from happening, in other words, it was a fight between two characters, now i know the story is more deeper than that but the true is that the main thing is just that.

In the second game oh god, here he have the real complex story. Here klei wanted to spicy up the thing and they added Charlie(yeah ik she was in the first game as well but not with a main rol) as the new antagonist, and they made Maxwell and Wilson the new protagonists but they werent enough for klei so they added another one, yeah im talking about Winona. Now the reason why she has a leading rol is very simple, its cause klei, they wanted to tell a different story, and not just a simple fight between two characters, but how can they make this? I mean Maxwell and Wilson have shown that they only wanna get out of that place, using magic(maxwell) and scince(wilson) and even trying to go through strange portals so with only those two the story can only focus on them trying to leave the constant, beaing a copy of the RoG. Now Klei is really good at their job but when i played this game the first time i wasnt expecting an interesting story, i just wanted to have fun in a survival game and then boom! they bring Winona.

But why Winona is important you could say, well let me explain it. She is the big sister of Charlie the antagonist, not only that but she has been looking for her little sister for so long, it wasnt a coincidence that she ended up working at Voxola Factory, she tracked her sister so well that she ended up finding her...

Now this new story is not just a simple fight to get out of the place, this new arc is about discover what is happening in that place, and Winona is not gonna leave without her sister, so she have to discover a way to help her, in other words this is not a fight to get out, this is an adventure to discover how the place works and how Nona can help her little sister, how Charlie ended like that, what Nona can do to help her sister and the others. And this is something only Winona can do, why? its simple, cause Wilson and Maxwell doesnt really have a strong bond with charlie, remeber that this new arc is not as simple as get out of that place, Charlie unlike Maxy doesnt become prisioner of the shadow throne, she in fact become a real villian, now in order to have a chance against charlie they need a person with a strong bond to her, why? another simple thing, cause Charlie have an insane power in that dimension, unlike maxy that was restricted, she can do what she want in here, the survivors doesnt stand a chance(at least the human ones :P), but theres hope, Charlie doesnt lose all his mind when she absrobed the power of the throne, so she is mentaly unstable, and the only possible way to win and even bring charlie back is with the memory of her past, sure maxy can try to do something here but here's the thing, he as her previous boss and the person who make her lose herself in that horrible place is only gonna make her more angry so as you can see maxy can't do this job. This is the reason why Nona is important and why she is a protagonist, and yeah ik a lot of people are gonna argue that "she hasnt do anything important in the story yet" so Maxy and Wilson, at least in this new arc they has made as much as Nona, sure they were important in RoG but this is not RoG, as you can see the protagonists of Together havent done anyhing important yet, thats not their fault, the author of this story Klei is making the story really slow and thats not bad, in my opinion this is something good and unique.

Like i wrote before Nona is a protagonist cause klei just wanted her in that role, it doesnt matter if some people dont like her or if she is a bad or useless protagonist, she is still what the author wanted her to be, a protagonist and thats the reality.

Now lets talk a little about Wagstaff. and im doing this cause i read something really funny about him. First i have to say that he is not a protagonist nor deuteragonist like some people think he is and to make this all more easy to understand im gonna explain what is a deuteragonist. A deuteragonist is another way to say secondary main character, its simple as that. That bein said i do think he is an important character but the true is he more like a resource to make the story more mysterious, we still dont know what is his plot, we don't know what is he doing, its a mystery and this is really dangerous in any work of fiction but i not gonna analyze this at all. Like i wrote before even if he is not a protagonist or a deuteragonist he still can do really important things to this game, he can even carry the story to some insane levels but a character that we dont see often in klei animation nor is seen often in the main story lore cause he is doing myterious things is obviously not a protagonist nor a deuteragonist. Now im about to make a comparative so prepare yourself XD

Van Hoheinheim from FMA is a perfect example of this kind of characters, he was not a protagonist nor deuteragonist but he was really important to the main story, the man carry all the story and he was the person who resolved the final conflic, he was really impotant and without him the protagonists would have lost so as you can see you can make a story from a lot of perspectives, but the perspective of the protagonist is the one we see the most thats all,

Thank you so much for read all that if you did it.

[Waoling]

This is what I'm trying to say but I'm just to lazy to do so.

[LinknAllie]

I still won't ever consider her a protagonist until she does something important to the lore.  She is the worst character on the roster as she is the most boring, which the forumites agree with and somehow the has less involvement in the story than other non-important characters.  You could completely take Winona out of the plot and there wouldn't be a difference despite her supposedly being "lore important".  Sure, you can say that about most characters including Wilson but they don't have any connection to the main story from what we know, Willow being an example.  All we know (to my knowledge) is that she burnt down her orphanage she was residing in and it's unknown from there.  Although Winona is supposed to be lore important according to people defending her and yet she could be taken out completely as I said.  Charlie could just not have a sibling and Wagstaff would be down a single employee.  No change whatsoever in the story that is of any importance.    Klei doesn't even seem to be involving her that much despite people saying they are.  She is put in the background at most.  The closest thing is the vignette where she is standing in front of everyone else.  She had so many opportunities to be "important" in Return of Them but Klei didn't do anything with her.  That is for a reason.  That reason being that she isn't a protagonist.  She is a side character, an offbrand Wagstaff.  The reason why he isn't a playable character yet.  

[IanKSB91]

25 minutes ago, LinknAllie said:

She is a side character, an offbrand Wagstaff.  The reason why he isn't a playable character yet.  

Not judging since I don't have a strong opinion weather Winona count as a protagonist or not, but I wanted to ask, is that why you dislike Winona so much?

[LinknAllie]

Just now, IanKSB91 said:

Not judging since I don't have a strong opinion weather Winona count as a protagonist or not, but I wanted to ask, is that why you dislike Winona so much?

The primary reason yes.  But there are a few other smaller reasons for me not being a big fan of her.

[Cuernito.]

57 minutes ago, LinknAllie said:

I still won't ever consider her a protagonist until she does something important to the lore.  She is the worst character on the roster as she is the most boring, which the forumites agree with and somehow the has less involvement in the story than other non-important characters.  You could completely take Winona out of the plot and there wouldn't be a difference despite her supposedly being "lore important".  Sure, you can say that about most characters including Wilson but they don't have any connection to the main story from what we know, Willow being an example.  All we know (to my knowledge) is that she burnt down her orphanage she was residing in and it's unknown from there.  Although Winona is supposed to be lore important according to people defending her and yet she could be taken out completely as I said.  Charlie could just not have a sibling and Wagstaff would be down a single employee.  No change whatsoever in the story that is of any importance.    Klei doesn't even seem to be involving her that much despite people saying they are.  She is put in the background at most.  The closest thing is the vignette where she is standing in front of everyone else.  She had so many opportunities to be "important" in Return of Them but Klei didn't do anything with her.  That is for a reason.  That reason being that she isn't a protagonist.  She is a side character, an offbrand Wagstaff.  The reason why he isn't a playable character yet.  

Well first of all she is a protagonist not cause thats my opinion but cause thats how klei has made her look, the animations that always shows maxwell, wilson and nona speaks for themselves, i dont really care if she is an awful protagonist i was talking about facts. Second you as a wagstaff fan(which i think you are based on a lot of things :p) should know why winona is the best thing that happes to wagstaff, and no, she didnt make klei take the choice to make wagstaff a npc instead of a playable character. Allow me to explain all of this.

Wagstaff from the very begging was just a concept in the first game, a concept that was developed thanks to fan service, this is cause the fans just got curious about the person that made the radio things, he was not planned from the start but he still becomes one of the most important characters. now heres my question, why, why did he become like that?, well easy klei needed something to explain a lot of things of this game, so wagstaff was created, but, is he really important to the main story? well he made the radio things that allow maxy to talk to other worlds, thats all he does, but, he was really neccesary for the story? i think not, he as a character is pretty new, he was not in RoG lore, only his inventions but those inventions could have worked fine without telling the players who was the inventor. see the problem here? wagstaff is as important as klei want him to be, thats all. 

But my real issue with your statement is that based on your love for wagstaff you should in theory love Nona too. the true is that wagstaff's story developed further with the inclusion of Nona.

Facts: Wagtaff was revealed to be the boss of winona. Winona have a good amount of info about Wagstaff, A portal in the voxola factory made Winona enters the constant.

This one is not a fact but more like a guess: the person that Nona tried to save fixing up the portal thing was maybe wagstaff.

As you can see Nona and wagstaff are really correlated.

I get the it must be rough not have your fav character in your game but dont blame winona for that, klei made the decision of not use wagstaff as a main character, sorry if you feel that its Nona's fault but the true is that nona and wagstaff are more likely friends or at least have a good relationship  and this shows on all those things that winona said about wagtaff, she actually respect the man.

[mr. brj]

3 hours ago, NekoSoulx said:

Winona is not gonna leave without her sister, so she have to discover a way to help her

Well the game is (almost literally) called Don't Starve To Get Her:P

 

Yes, Winona is the protagonist of the story and I don't know who disagrees with that, but I don't see how Maxwell and Wilson can't be protagonists as well. After all, there is no solid rule that limits the number of protagonists in a story, it is just that the more protagonists there are, the more inconvenient the storytelling becomes and the less relatable the protagonists would be. For the story of a game like DST, 3 protagonists do seem quite reasonable, at least to me.

[LinknAllie]

1 hour ago, NekoSoulx said:

snip

It's less of me thinking she replaced him and more of that she is preventing him from being added as a playable character in the future.  People talk about how "only one engineer character can be in the game" and they're "practically the same" when I bring up Wagstaff as a playable character.  The reason I don't play as her however is because she is boring to high hell.  I tried, believe me.  I can't even last more than 5 days playing as her without being bored to death and quitting the world or switching characters to back to Wanda or Maxwell.  She just feels offbrand, it doesn't feel right playing her compared to Wagstaff.  That's why I hate her so much, and why I hate that Klei is making her the new cover character on every update even though she is their most forgettable character that barely anyone plays anymore.

[Astraia]

I don't see Winona as the main protagonist, I see her as a character that helps support the story. Wagstaff, however, is definitely the main protagonist

[LinknAllie]

5 minutes ago, NightfallsCurse said:

I don't see Winona as the main protagonist, I see her as a character that helps support the story. Wagstaff, however, is definitely the main protagonist

Facts

[Dr. Safety]

4 hours ago, LinknAllie said:

I still won't ever consider her a protagonist until she does something important to the lore.

I'm gonna have to agree with this one. Yeah, she has ties with the important characters in which are driving the story (Charlie VS Wagstaff VS Survivors), but that is the only thing she has going her. She hasn't actually done anything besides exist with other characters. Would the Beefalo trader be the new protagonist if it was discovered that Charlie and him were childhood friends and Wagstaff and him went to the comedy club every Thursday? Of course not. Would he be a protagonist if he ends up leading the charge against Charlie and Wagstaff? Yeah, I'd say so.  Winona hasn't done anything so I don't put her any higher than Willow or Woodie.

[Waoling]

DST is a game without an actual storyline that said a certain character do something that why Winona still hasn't done anything yet.

[LiamAshvinn001]

Winona doesn't have a L in her name, like Wilson and Maxwell, thus SHE IS NOT EVEN A MAIN CHARACTER.

[DrMcGillacactus]

I don't think any character is the main character of DST, since we're getting the story through all of the characters

All of them are (arguably) important to the lore in some way, and there isn't just one perspective we're seeing

[Losparkeros]

1 hour ago, LiamAshvinn001 said:

Winona doesn't have a L in her name, like Wilson and Maxwell, thus SHE IS NOT EVEN A MAIN CHARACTER.

L stands for "Lore-important".

That's why Maxwell (William) is QUADRUPLE LORE IMPORTANT.

Ignore Willow though...

[Starlogy]

We really need Winona buffs.

[LiamAshvinn001]

1 hour ago, Losparkeros said:

L stands for "Lore-important".

That's why Maxwell (William) is QUADRUPLE LORE IMPORTANT.

Ignore Willow though...

Yeah, even Warly is more lore-important than Winona

[minespatch]

Winona is only important due to her connection to Wagstaff and Charlie. I'd say Wendy has more significance due to her relation to William and the drama that's between them.

[lakhnish]

Wes is more of a protagonist that Winona CMV.

He saved George T. Witherstone from being taken into the constant by Maxwell and ended up getting locked up in Adventure mode b/c of that.

The man is a hero, preventing a daughter from being fatherless.

Spoiler

Also, this is the first time I've heard someone have such fiery passion for Winona not being a protagonist (something I never considered to be a hot button issue, let alone an opinion), it's kind of out of left field lmao.

 

[Waoling]

Wilson, Maxwell, and Winona is the three protag, because Klei make them the protag not us wanting to them to be.

[GelatinousCube]

Y'all are tripping. Winona is the/a protagonist in the same way that every single character is the/a protagonist. Whoever you main or play the most is the protagonist in your own world. 

She just has a connection/relation to Charlie much like many others have a connection/relation to Maxwell or someone else actually key to the story/lore. There has been no solid or substantial progression lore or promotional video wise of her connecting with Charlie or furthering her hope to free her sister as far as I am aware. I may be remembering incorrectly but I think during a single update video we were shown Winona reaching for Charlies hand amongst a bunch of other stuff going down?

If you want to be real strict and pendantic about it she most definitely is not one of the "main" protagonists. Wilson and Maxwell are undoubtably the main two due to their importance to lore, the fact that canonically Wilson frees Maxwell from the Throne and the fact Wilson is featured in the vast majority of promotion and art. They are also the only two other than Charlie to canonically sit upon the Nightmare Throne and Wilson is 100% the protagonist of Dont Starve Alone and Maxwell is the Antagonist. 

Honestly if anything I would say that Willow would be the third protagonist, if you simply google Don't Starve Together she is used in the vast majority of promotional art alongside Wilson as the de facto main male and female protagonists.

Lore wise a bunch of other characters are far more important than Winona; Wilson, Wagstaff, Charlie and Maxwell, and arguably Wendy, Wes, Wolfgang, WX and Webber. Promotion and art wise there are also a bunch of other characters who are used far more frequently and prominently than Winona as well mainly Willow as mentioned above. 

I get you guys love Winona and I too really appreciate her connection to Charlie and hope that is further touched upon and expanded in the future, perhaps we could even have an update where Winona shines and the very nature of Charlie can be somewhat changed or maybe Charlie even gets freed from the Throne by Winona and Winona replaces her! (Main problem with this is that although it could make Charlie a playable character Winona would need to be removed from the roster for this to really make sense and that would be highly problematic, if my main or even one of my mains (Winona is not one of them for reference) was removed from the roster I would be very upset), but she is absoutely by no means the protagonist of DST. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

 

/thread

important in the story != protagonist

10 hours ago, Waoling said:

Wilson, Maxwell, and Winona is the three protag, because Klei make them the protag not us wanting to them to be.

wilson, maxwell and charlie are the three protagonists

[Waoling]

27 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

/thread

important in the story != protagonist

wilson, maxwell and charlie are the three protagonists

Winona is important to the story.

Charlie is the antagonist.

[Cuernito.]

13 hours ago, GelatinousCube said:

Y'all are tripping. Winona is the/a protagonist in the same way that every single character is the/a protagonist. Whoever you main or play the most is the protagonist in your own world. 

She just has a connection/relation to Charlie much like many others have a connection/relation to Maxwell or someone else actually key to the story/lore. There has been no solid or substantial progression lore or promotional video wise of her connecting with Charlie or furthering her hope to free her sister as far as I am aware. I may be remembering incorrectly but I think during a single update video we were shown Winona reaching for Charlies hand amongst a bunch of other stuff going down?

If you want to be real strict and pendantic about it she most definitely is not one of the "main" protagonists. Wilson and Maxwell are undoubtably the main two due to their importance to lore, the fact that canonically Wilson frees Maxwell from the Throne and the fact Wilson is featured in the vast majority of promotion and art. They are also the only two other than Charlie to canonically sit upon the Nightmare Throne and Wilson is 100% the protagonist of Dont Starve Alone and Maxwell is the Antagonist. 

Honestly if anything I would say that Willow would be the third protagonist, if you simply google Don't Starve Together she is used in the vast majority of promotional art alongside Wilson as the de facto main male and female protagonists.

Lore wise a bunch of other characters are far more important than Winona; Wilson, Wagstaff, Charlie and Maxwell, and arguably Wendy, Wes, Wolfgang, WX and Webber. Promotion and art wise there are also a bunch of other characters who are used far more frequently and prominently than Winona as well mainly Willow as mentioned above. 

I get you guys love Winona and I too really appreciate her connection to Charlie and hope that is further touched upon and expanded in the future, perhaps we could even have an update where Winona shines and the very nature of Charlie can be somewhat changed or maybe Charlie even gets freed from the Throne by Winona and Winona replaces her! (Main problem with this is that although it could make Charlie a playable character Winona would need to be removed from the roster for this to really make sense and that would be highly problematic, if my main or even one of my mains (Winona is not one of them for reference) was removed from the roster I would be very upset), but she is absoutely by no means the protagonist of DST. 

First of all no, being in promotional art doesnt make you a protagonist, second i dont think Winona is important cause i main her, a lot of people are here just thinking that cause i love her i writing this with a bias and no, to being honest right now im wishing klei to stop trying to make her look like a protagonist, some people here really seem to hate her.

From the start i really didnt care about her being a protagonist cause i like her for her skins, her personal story about trying to find her sister and her personality, klei giving her protagonism was just a plus. 

Idk why you can't see something so obvious, i mean why klei would make her have such an story and important conection with charlie, sure a lot of others characters have small conections with maxy but thats the thing, they are small conections, do you really think that being a niece of maxy is a strong or big conection? oof, now klei not only make Nona being a familiar of charlie, they gave her a story about how she was trying so hard to find charlie, now Nona is here and charlie is still somehow trapped in her own mind. See thats the difference between Wendy and Nona, wendy doesnt have something to talk or do with maxy, she is just there being a familiar, Winona is not only her familiar she have some unfinished business with charlie and since charlie is the main antagonist... well im sure you can do the last part yourself. Not only all of this but klei made her look like a protagonist in a lot of their animations, specially in the Forgotten knowledge one.

As you can see again, she being a prota is not something i wish, in fact right now i wish her not to be so some people could chill out, the reason why i made this whole post was to defend the true.

And im gonna tell you something if the day of tomorrow klei say that Winona is not a prota, Im not gonna feel bad, they gave us all hints about her being a prota, the big conection, the animations, all of that, im trying to be reasonable i dont really care if she is a prota or not, im just trying to be logical, thats all.

Thanks for reading me btw :p

6 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

/thread

important in the story != protagonist

wilson, maxwell and charlie are the three protagonists

hahaha this actually made me laught a little ngl XD

My friend if you dont know the difference between a protagonist and an important character then i can help but laugh.

Gonna explain this again using FMA

Ling yao, Van Hohenheim, Riza Hawkeye, all those were really important to the story of FMA and still they werent the protagonists, hope you can understand this concept better now. the true is

Focus of the story=protagonist. Simple as that my friend.

Thanks for reading me btw :p

[aofshovels]

Oi oi…..

Let’s talk Joseph Campbell and his interpretation of the “Hero’s Journey”:

The Hero’s Journey has the protagonist being taken from their everyday life into some form of ordeal or major change. Along the way, the protagonist will meet up with other character archetypes and will eventually go through some form of change, whether it is a physical change such as becoming an adult, or a spiritual change such as a change in worldview. When the ordeal is over, the protagonist returns to their everyday life a different person than they were before they set out. (More detailed information can be seen Here.)

With this explanation, Winona is the protagonist of her own story. Just like Wilson is the protagonist of his story, Wigfrid’s the protagonist of her story, and so on and so forth. 

The main story is about the Survivors as a collective, though it has an emphasis on Wilson and his journey, as he was the first character to be introduced.

Can we please move on before I blow a gasket? Thank you.