March Quality of Life Update Coming Next Week!

[Cheggf]

2 hours ago, PetulantPansy said:

There's no need to shut this guy down for a valid argument

There is no valid argument. There is one person who is saying that the change is for no reason and using a random buzzword he doesn't understand to pretend like he's justifying it despite not even saying what he's talking about, and multiple people farming reactions by saying he's wrong without elaborating too much on why (not that there's much room to elaborate against a nonexistent argument) or telling him what the buzzword he's misusing means. Mostly just reposts of what other people already told him.

That's not constructive in the slightest.

[Pig Princess]

2 hours ago, PetulantPansy said:

- your first point just says that its better to click -> click -> navigate -> click vs. click -> click -> scroll -> click [very marginal difference]

Which is actually click->click->navigate->double click (new menu) vs click->scroll->click (old menu). Old menu is obviously better and table view could be incorporated as an option as opposed to the list. But people just tried to shut me up, even though I not only showed weak points of new menu, but came up with suggestions how to improve it, and some other users also did that as well.

By the way, I checked those filters and now I can confirm that I didn't miss anything important in time that thread was created: filters don't help to craft things any faster, especially if one already remembers where is what. Typing text to find a thing is not only slower than clicking once and scrolling, it's impossible to do for me while I'm running (with mouse, which is how I'm moving in DS/T). 

On top of that, I found out that by putting one thing in so many tabs they became too big and require... Scrolling! Just as I predicted, in the end it was net loss after switching to new crafting menu in terms of time and comfort of use. Quick crafting tab is both too small and too clunky to reconfigure every time I join server to make my crafting experience better, and on top of that I can't even pin items which I can't see yet, which means that I can't do all at once and be done with it for this server.

21 hours ago, MrSoratori said:

Omg this whinning about the new craft tab when u guys even didnt tried it in the first place... thats cringe 

it will be a change for good, a lotta stuff will make the craft mechanic BETTER and FASTER, ffs

I tried it for many minutes, and I hate it with passion. Which is why I'm complaining.

[QuartzBeam]

36 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Which is actually click->click->navigate->double click (new menu) vs click->scroll->click (old menu).

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 hour ago, Pig Princess said:

I tried it for many minutes, and I hate it with passion. Which is why I'm complaining.

i recommend you to try it a little more with open mind since your paragraph isnt close to the real gameplay with things like saying that you predicted scrolling when that only happens in the structure and decoration tab (and anyways, if scrolling is bad why do you defend the old system) or describing the steps of both menus in a poor way to make the new one look worst

and ofc at first takes time to know where are certain things but that is just a matter of thinking in which filter it fits. If someone with experience have problems finding quickly an item in the new system imagine a noob in the old one

 

edit: 

[hhh2]

On 3/17/2022 at 8:20 PM, JoeW said:

Finally, we're going to be making a couple really big announcements that we're very excited about. So make sure to join us next week! 

new singleplayer DLC confirmed!!!!

[Falkenpelz]

On 3/17/2022 at 9:48 PM, minespatch said:

DONT JINX THIS

Anything but Netflix.

They did okay on Cuphead... but if I could chose, I would still abduct Patrick McHale (OtGW director), Henry Selick and Tim Burton for this. And please mind your words @minespatch, "anything but Netflix" includes Illumination and Lionsgate...

[minespatch]

Just now, Falkenpelz said:

anything but Netflix" includes Illumination and Lionsgate...

Since Klei animators worked with Titmouse in the past, sure.

[Falkenpelz]

3 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Since Klei animators worked with Titmouse in the past, sure.

I got nerd-beaten in my own realm

[PetulantPansy]

4 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

snip

I hear you. It's going to be an annoying adjustment for old timers. I have a feeling most people didn't try it out in the beta since there's not really a point to go to the beta branch just to see the new menu. I do hope for Klei's sake that it'll get a warm reception - they put a lot of time into this. 

[maradyne]

It'll take some getting used to, but the menu changes are great. Solves a few problems that had been getting more and more relevant since the ocean updates.

I'm interested to see where modding will take the crafting system. Lots of potential to mess with it now; we've already seen people making adjustments/presenting ideas for them.

[Pig Princess]

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i recommend you to try it a little more with open mind since your paragraph isnt close to the real gameplay

I tried, in real gameplay (not in creative mode) as well.

Even not counting confusion about finding things (this can be re-memorised after some time, and for me it's not a problem even now), there is still 1 more click to open menu and 1 more to craft first item/structure. In your example you make a lot of repetitive structures, and in that case, sure, one needs exact amount of clicks to place a structure past first one (since particular item in particular tab (2) is already selected), so it's a tie. Problem is in this "first one", and during early days where time is the most valuable compared to other stages of the game, I usually craft 1-2 copies of item and then progress towards new ones. So in my case those first crafts actually make a difference, and it's clear win of old system.

You are also showing repetitive craft as if it wasn't a thing with old menu. With old menu not only it was possible, but you could find correnponding recipe in 1 click and - optionally - scrolling for part of a second. With new menu you are making 3 clicks instead of 1 and only then you are making boards via repetitive action without clicking. So even though the more items you craft the less difference is, this difference still exists and old system wins.

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

if scrolling is bad why do you defend the old system)

I didn't write that scrolling is bad, I'm actually fine with that. But if goal of new system was to get rid of scrolling, then it wasn't achieved since some of new tabs still require scrolling despite table view. All those items located in more than 1 tab at the same time only increase amount of space used and clutter new menu, which doesn't help.

4 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

describing the steps of both menus in a poor way to make the new one look worst

Why? Describing steps clearly shows how things actually are, and if new menu looses to old one in any way, that is the reason to think about possible improvement, not just pretend problem is not there.

 

Anyway, I see how scrolling can become a problem in the future if devs were planning to add much more recipes. But just changing (optionally) view of tab from list to table would solve that. New system potentially can become better than old one if devs were planning to add much more tabs, in that case table view of tabs + ability to close it would help; however, that would come at cost of less convenient access to all of them.

But why can't we pin tabs to quick access panel and have best parts from both systems?

Another concern of mine is necessity to reorganize quick access tab each time one enters new server/regenerates world. For megabase world it's not a problem, for short runs while one only figures out strategy and success rate is low it actually is.

So why can't we edit quick access tab and favourite tab outside of server, why can't we have more than one preset and quickly switch between them with hotkey?

Why can't we edit existing tabs in new system and have button to "reset arrangement" instead of set in stone sea of duplicates? I would like to move cane from tools to favourites, for example, same for morning star which I would like to remove from light tab, etc.

Why can't we see alchemy recipes from the start and the ones requiring stations of higher tier, why can't we pin them from the start to quick access/favourites? Corresponding station would still be required in order to unlock/craft them, new players would see them in the first place. It's a win-win solution.

And finally, why can't we craft after 1 click and instead have to use double click? Skins can be changed in old way, I just don't want to be forced to clicking basically 2 times more.

If all of this was added, people could mimic old system and use benefits of new one. But I keep checking patch notes and only see minor changes, nothing like flexibility increase as a result of more substantial changes.

[jan Mele]

8 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

But why can't we pin tabs to quick access panel and have best parts from both systems?

This! Seriously, having to click both to show the menu and to select a tab is unnecessary.

8 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I didn't write that scrolling is bad, I'm actually fine with that. But if goal of new system was to get rid of scrolling, then it wasn't achieved since some of new tabs still require scrolling despite table view.

As a mouse and keyboard user, I think that scrolling in tabs like survival and structure can be tiresome, the new menu is a huge improvement on that part.

8 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

All those items located in more than 1 tab at the same time only increase amount of space used and clutter new menu, which doesn't help.

Yup

8 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

And finally, why can't we craft after 1 click and instead have to use double click? Skins can be changed in old way, I just don't want to be forced to clicking basically 2 times more.

the item icon is surrounded by other icons. I think that changing skins with a right click instead would be better.

[maradyne]

16 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

But why can't we pin tabs to quick access panel and have best parts from both systems?

 

3 minutes ago, jan Mele said:

I think that changing skins with a right click instead would be better.

 

These two changes would be rather brilliant. And straightforward.

[reallychina]

2 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I didn't write that scrolling is bad, I'm actually fine with that. But if goal of new system was to get rid of scrolling, then it wasn't achieved since some of new tabs still require scrolling despite table view. All those items located in more than 1 tab at the same time only increase amount of space used and clutter new menu, which doesn't help.

They did get rid of scrolling. Only very few tabs have content to scroll and even then scrolling is beyond minimal - you scroll once and access multiple other items, not just one at a time. The important items are at the top so scrolling is something you do for niche, uncommon things.

 

The new system is exceptional, the only thing missing that i hope and expect would be added at some point is being able to have presets you can pick from, so that you don't have to setup quick access every time.

 

I had extensive muscle memory from the old system and i'm surprised how smooth and fast the transition to the new one has been, a sign that it is very well made.

 

I also expect them to add a craft bulk button since there is plenty of space for it in the new interface.

[jan Mele]

7 hours ago, maradyne said:

These two changes would be rather brilliant. And straightforward.

My suggestion might be not very intuitive tho

[ethannnnnnn]

On 3/17/2022 at 4:20 PM, JoeW said:

Items within a treasure chest can now be used when crafting.

Does this mean proximity crafting? A bit confused with the "treasure chest" wording.

[SonicDen220]

3 minutes ago, ethannnnnnn said:

Does this mean proximity crafting? A bit confused with the "treasure chest" wording.

Treasurechest is just a chest's prefab in the code. What this change means is that if you open a chest you can craft something using the materials from the chest without putting them in your inventory.

[Pig Princess]

4 hours ago, reallychina said:

They did get rid of scrolling

Not really. In old system only tool and structure tab could use table view (but for me was comfortable as is), but in new system even if it's 2 tabs again, problem wasn't solved on principle, which is a problem. It's true that if much more crafts and tabs were added in the future new system would generate considerably less scrolling and difference would only grow, while scrollling will become a problem at some point, however, even now for me it was uncomfortable to search though "everythig" in order to find lazy explorer in creative mode for example. Filters are supposed to help with that, however, when I typed in search bar part of the item name it showed items that have this combination of letters in the middle, which was still too much items and required typing longer parts. I think it would be more convenient if things that start from searched part of the name were shown first, and items where it's middle part were still shown, but after them.

Still, old system could be reasonably updated instead of whole overhaul, and even after overhaul new system could still benefit from incorporation of best things from old one, and as you can see, it is possible on principle.

4 hours ago, reallychina said:

The new system is exceptional

New system has potential, and even though I wrote that I hate it, it is about it's current state. I don't hate it on princeple. But right now it needs improvements.

4 hours ago, reallychina said:

craft bulk button

This would be really cool, I would like that as well even for survival worlds (for ropes and walls, for example).

 

I wonder how many hours you have, because with my 4900 in DST, around 1000 in DS and unlisted additional amount in DS it wasn't smooth at all.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I tried, in real gameplay (not in creative mode) as well.

i used creative mode to show how overexagerated are the complains about clicking making 2, almost identical, bases. I should have made more structures like walls to show that the new menu is better.

Since the beta came out i only play there because is a way more confortable experience

6 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

there is still 1 more click to open menu and 1 more to craft first item/structure.[...]

Problem is in this "first one", and during early days where time is the most valuable compared to other stages of the game

how much time you need to do double click? srly, how much? i cant take this in a serious tone, honestly

 

6 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

But if goal of new system was to get rid of scrolling, then it wasn't achieved since some of new tabs still require scrolling despite table view

at the end of both videos i scroll throw all the tabs, compare them. The old system was becoming ridiculous. The new system wasnt made to get rid of scrolling but to fix how much scrolling you need to craft. Just by crafting bundle wraps or walls+chests+scaled chest it was ridiculous

6 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

Why? Describing steps clearly shows how things actually are, and if new menu looses to old one in any way, that is the reason to think about possible improvement, not just pretend problem is not there.

because complaining about 1 extra click in the new system while omiting all the time needed to scroll in the old menu is a biased comparation

the old menu lose im any way against the new one

sure in the future will be worts but already was bad if we compared it with the new menu plus all the other problems fixed like not having enough room for new tabs like decorations or fishing plus the ones that will come or how time consuming was for noobs to explore the tabs

i wont waste more time in this discussion. Sad that you dont like it, maybe in a future you will be confortable with it

 

[Pig Princess]

4 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

how much time you need to do double click? srly, how much? i cant take this in a serious tone, honestly

A lot, but it becomes worse with other issues of new menu. Sad that you continue to pull "that isn't that inconvenient" arguement instead of admitting weak points and thinking how it could be made more convenient, both for you and other people.

There is no reason to not improve something if suggestions are there, reasonable, would help everyone and beta is still open. You are comfortable with new menu? Cool, good for you, let others suggest how to make it comfortable for them too (as long as it's not going to make it less comfortable to you and other content with it people, it should be fine).

10 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

1 extra click in the new system while omiting all the time needed to scroll in the old menu is a biased comparation

I never omitted scrolling, but admitted that wasn't an issue to me at all. I'm comfortable with amount of scrolling that was in old menu, and bundle wrap case and such could have been easily solved via giving player ability to change order of items in the tabs, or making it table on the basis of old menu.

12 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i wont waste more time in this discussion

As you wish, but I still don't understand why are people so against proposed changes that don't change things for them but make new menu comfortable to other people. What are you loosing?

Constructive critisim way always a way to improve things, in real life as well.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

A lot, but it becomes worse with other issues of new menu. Sad that you continue to pull "that isn't that inconvenient" arguement instead of admitting weak points and thinking how it could be made more convenient, both for you and other people.

There is no reason to not improve something if suggestions are there, reasonable, would help everyone and beta is still open. You are comfortable with new menu? Cool, good for you, let others suggest how to make it comfortable for them too (as long as it's not going to make it less comfortable to you and other content with it people, it should be fine).

I never omitted scrolling, but admitted that wasn't an issue to me at all. I'm comfortable with amount of scrolling that was in old menu, and bundle wrap case and such could have been easily solved via giving player ability to change order of items in the tabs, or making it table on the basis of old menu.

As you wish, but I still don't understand why are people so against proposed changes that don't change things for them but make new menu comfortable to other people. What are you loosing?

Constructive critisim way always a way to improve things, in real life as well.

i didnt like double click at first because i tried to craft and miss but was at first, after some hours you get use and you dont even notice it because takes 0.1". Scrolling wasnt a problem for me neither, i was even against the idea of a crafting rework until i saw and experience the menu, we were used to it but now i compare and man, you waste a lot of time scrolling. And isnt only that i like it more, is about new players, i remember trying to see SW and hamlet recipes and was a pain (atleast in dst pausing the game allows you to maniputale the crafting menu)

im not agaisnt improving lol, why do you say that?i didnt mentioned any if your suggestions, im agaisnt people manipulating the information about something because they dont like it and saying that 1 extra click>all the scrolling needed or saying that the new tabs needs scrolling like if that was a problem at the level of the old system is omitting and exagerating information

[Pig Princess]

11 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

im not agaisnt improving lol, why do you say that?

It looked for me like "omitting all scrolling" part was directed to me, so I decided to clarify that.

Well, ironically left button of my old mouse died exaclty when I was clicking with left mouse button a lot while testing beta. It's most likely a coincidence, however, it made me think about it, and I couldn't find any reason why should double click be left as is and continue to kill mouse much faster that before. Double click specifically is more about mouse durability rather than about time, everything else is about extra time, however.

11 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

i remember trying to see SW and hamlet recipes and was a pain

Agree for SW, partially for Hamlet. But I think the biggest problem both with DLC's and DST is the fact that one can't see things locked behind crafting stations of tier 2+. When I was new in the game, that was the most inconvenient and fake-difficulty implying part, which I bruteforced with wiki page always open on "crafting" page. Scrolling wasn't making such huge impact as this.

[Cannoli]

If the change was new ui for old ui, same people would be defending the changes hehehe fanboys base is too powerful in this forum.

[reallychina]

1 hour ago, Pig Princess said:

Not really. In old system only tool and structure tab could use table view (but for me was comfortable as is), but in new system even if it's 2 tabs again, problem wasn't solved on principle, which is a problem. It's true that if much more crafts and tabs were added in the future new system would generate considerably less scrolling and difference would only grow, while scrollling will become a problem at some point, however, even now for me it was uncomfortable to search though "everythig" in order to find lazy explorer in creative mode for example. Filters are supposed to help with that, however, when I typed in search bar part of the item name it showed items that have this combination of letters in the middle, which was still too much items and required typing longer parts. I think it would be more convenient if things that start from searched part of the name were shown first, and items where it's middle part were still shown, but after them.

Still, old system could be reasonably updated instead of whole overhaul, and even after overhaul new system could still benefit from incorporation of best things from old one, and as you can see, it is possible on principle.

New system has potential, and even though I wrote that I hate it, it is about it's current state. I don't hate it on princeple. But right now it needs improvements.

This would be really cool, I would like that as well even for survival worlds (for ropes and walls, for example).

 

I wonder how many hours you have, because with my 4900 in DST, around 1000 in DS and unlisted additional amount in DS it wasn't smooth at all.

 

I'm saying that even without considering any potential added crafts, new system is good because you can, in vast majority of practical situations, see the item without scrolling, and even if scrolling is required, it's so minimal because a line reveals 7 items not one. With one click on the category you get a birds eye view of all items and since categories are very specific now you know exactly what you're getting. Old categorization was a mess because they had to limit the tabs (it was less than half the current ones).

 

They will probably switch things here and there, but even if they were to never touch it again, it's still much better than the past one.

 

I have a couple thousands hours in DS and DST combined. That's why i was very surprised by how fast i ended up appreciating the new one.

 

Personally i need a craft bulk option (something as simple as RIGHT clicking on the item to start repeat crafting would be more than enough) and a menu option for single click to craft instead of the current double click

[ArubaroBeefalo]

10 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Agree for SW, partially for Hamlet. But I think the biggest problem both with DLC's and DST is the fact that one can't see things locked behind crafting stations of tier 2+. When I was new in the game, that was the most inconvenient and fake-difficulty implying part, which I bruteforced with wiki page always open on "crafting" page. Scrolling wasn't making such huge impact as this

what i did was to be near the alchemy engine and check every tab to see what recipes are avaraible which was too time consuming and confusing if, at the same time, you need to manage things and you know that you are wasting time that you need to prepare the following season