[Poll] On Powercreep in DST

[GetNerfedOn]

Quick overview: powercreep is when newly introduced mechanics or content are more powerful than existing ones, leaving the latter less used. 

With that in mind, feel free to answer the poll and discuss in the comments! 

[Maxposting]

Imho wanda is more op than most, but she requires a lot of skill to be the most efficient, while characters like Wendy are more newbie-based but still have enough power to be useful, just less so.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

the powercreep of farming glass which is fun (sad) because glass was introduced in the same updates arc xD

[EssZee]

Does it still count as ‘powercreep’ when arguably better items arise due to the level of player progression in the game? For example, a backpack vs a krampus sack. The former is objectively better, but the latter comes through a much greater amount of gameplay. I don’t hear the term much so I’m curious to see if what I said counts under its definition

[Leonidas IV]

3 minutes ago, EssZee said:

Does it still count as ‘powercreep’ when arguably better items arise due to the level of player progression in the game? For example, a backpack vs a krampus sack. The former is objectively better, but the latter comes through a much greater amount of gameplay. I don’t hear the term much so I’m curious to see if what I said counts under its definition

I don't think it counts, it's just progress

[ArubaroBeefalo]

the only thing i can recall related to powercreep is CC crown making tam useless plus cc champion and grotto making hotspring useless as i said above.

other than that, klei is making s good job about not making new items by making improved versions of what we already have

maybe there are more examples i cant remember 

12 minutes ago, EssZee said:

Does it still count as ‘powercreep’ when arguably better items arise due to the level of player progression in the game? For example, a backpack vs a krampus sack. The former is objectively better, but the latter comes through a much greater amount of gameplay. I don’t hear the term much so I’m curious to see if what I said counts under its definition

you can still use backpacks for storage instead of chest so they aren't useless after you get the sack or other kind of backpack

[ADM]

22 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the powercreep of farming glass which is fun (sad) because glass was introduced in the same updates arc xD

I hate that so bad When it was first introduced farming with bath bomb was like... normal and enjoyable, then comes the archive and grotto where you can auto renewable glass mining, which seems fair based on the "risks" around the area... and then this comically large amount of moon glass walks in :

Honestly all of the normal moon glass looted here should be moon rock, it's much more important and has barely any proper rich source. I never found myself using any old farming method since they introduced the celestial champion. (and if it wasn't enough already you can still get more glass from the boss with Moondials smh)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, ADM said:

I hate that so bad When it was first introduced farming with bath bomb was like... normal and enjoyable, then comes the archive and grotto where you can auto renewable glass mining, which seems fair based on the "risks" around the area... and then this comically large amount of moon glass walks in :

Honestly all of the normal moon glass looted here should be moon rock, it's much more important and has barely any proper rich source. I never found myself using any old farming method since they introduced the celestial champion. (and if it wasn't enough already you can still get more glass from the boss with Moondials smh)

totally. Is absurd the ammount of glass you can get from cc. One time i got +160 by just fighting him just 1 time, i got that many because my performance was awful so cc had time to spawn a lot of glass. Glass in late game worlds is a problem, is like a virus that infects your chests, it even drops from moon dials. Rotten food 2.0

i like the hotsprings, they are very original (kinda expesive recipe tho) and i dont understand how klei added everything else when they only created 2 glass items

[Echsrick]

i feel kind of neutrall to this, like, there is some, but there is alsol not some, like, some charackter rework stuff seems kinda powercreep, but then some not soo much, or some new stuff is kind of powercrep, but then some are not, its weird

[Ohan]

winter got ‘powercrept’ on hard in terms of food production. Figs, kelp, stone fruits, rwys crops all grow in winter. (And crops no longer wither in summer either)

when it comes to character refreshes it seems to me as if two different teams are behind them. The balance-concerned camp that put out WW, wolf, woodie and willow and the crazy camp that put out Wendy, Webber, wig and the Wanda release. 

overall it’s whatever I guess, sadly they cannot balance the game after my tastes alone 

DST deserves to be way more popular, if that requires making certain parts of the game easier/having certain powerful survivors so be it.

Spoiler

i just wish they could be more even-handed when it comes to attention given to each survivor. Like Wanda feels like she’s at 150% character potential/realization while other survivors even after their refresh r at 85-90%. If that makes sense.

Like Wolfgang for example, I really hope he’s still gonna get 1 last patch to make his sailing actually notable faster and make dumbells better weapons (durability, double damage when thrown…). It’s also really a pity imo that potato sacks never got an interesting function other than extremely lousy placeholder weights. Laboring having no effect on mightiness (slowing down drain for example) also feels odd. 

A lot of survivors have unrealized potential like that imo. WWs bramble crafts and lack of interaction with lunar content, Woodie no counter to transforming during moon storms, very conservative tuning on Weremoose, no interaction with lunar content (just an example: upgraded totems in celestial tab, more powerful during moon storm nights, etc) I can go on but I think I’ve made my point clear. 

[mr. brj]

Answered no, because apart from some characters having stronger perks than others and food being easy to access, there is basically no power creep introduced that majorly affects the gameplay. Even those two aspects only have an impact if you are a better-than-avarage player, and the character choice is mostly a matter of personal playstyle anyways. Food was always easy to mass produce as well, and I still witness people starving to death around the start of the first winter even though they know that the garden digamajig exists.

As for the characters, I feel like I have a reason to play each one of them if I wanted to have a different experience than I usually prefer to have, although some characters should get more love from Klei. Not because there are others who have stronger perks, but rather because these characters, Willow being my primary example, can sometimes be underwhelming at what they do the best. They can still be fun to play as, but they also need some tweaking.

All those being said, I consider Woodie during the moonstorms to be an exception that should be fixed as soon as possible. It was most likely an oversight during the initial relase of the EotS update and Klei most probably didn't have the time or resources to find a good solution. At least that's my guess and I still have my fingers crossed for all the Woodie players.

 

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the only thing i can recall related to powercreep is CC crown making tam useless plus cc champion and grotto making hotspring useless as i said above.

I like the example of the hotsprings, and I agree with them having less of an importance after the arrival of the Celestial Champion, but I also like the fact that the game has some "noob traps" that not only waste your resources, but also your time. The hotsprings fall into the second cateogry in that regard.

As for the comparison between the tam and the crown, I don't think that it counts as a power creep. You still have to theoretically wait for at least 3 seasons to get the crown, which is practically almost never the case. Plus you will need to get multiple crowns, at least one deconstruction staff, and lots of resources for mushlights/glowcaps if you want to utilize the crown to its full potential.

[Hornete]

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

i just wish they could be more even-handed when it comes to attention given to each survivor. Like Wanda feels like she’s at 150% character potential/realization while other survivors even after their refresh r at 85-90%. If that makes sense.

Right? One of my friends likes to jokingly say that Wanda makes every other character unplayable. Not because shes the most powerful or anything, but just because of how well designed she is and fully realised as a character  But yeah, I completely get what you're saying. I can only hope characters get more realised potential, but whoo boy I also dont wanna fall into a loop of a 2nd set of reworks or something.

[Yuuko]

I put in yes, but really its like @Ohan said - there seems to be some devs at Klei who have a good sense of balance, while others are just doing w/e b/c...  I really like Wanda, her kit is very fun and really adds to the game as you play her.  She is super strong, easily a contender for absolute top tier character in the game.  And they follow her up, along with some other straight buff-buff character refreshes, with Wolfgang refresh and its like... okay...  This isn't even a rework, its just nerfs :\ 

I think its okay to move that way though - If a character is going to have a new unique item it might as well be useful right!?  Like Walter gets this cool slingshot, and when you pick him you're thinking you're gonna kite and play that ranged dps role, but then you find out the ammo damage is so low you're better off investing in an ornery beefalo and just doing melee instead :\  Even though it is kinda power creep to make the slingshot better, I think it would make him more fun to play and give him a better spot in the game.  He doesn't have to do Wanda tier damage either, just make it deal enough that he can always use it instead of discarding it for the standard weapon selection.

[Cheggf]

How do 60% of people think there's not power creep when every single character who's been reworked (except for one) has received nothing but buffs, sometimes huge enormous buffs? Look at the DSA characters and compare them to DST, DST has super crept characters.

And that's not even getting into all the powerful items that have been added.

[Mike23Ua]

I personally feel like the entire game was changed when YoTB introduced a bell you can get as early as Day 1 that has a Beefalo follow you around loyally anywhere you go on the map.

There are a Million things you can do with this that people I guess just don’t seem to realize.

1- and should be most obvious: Day 1 Mount you can start taming on Day 1 and riding it around with each time it flings you off it’s back increasing the time until it bucks you off again until it’s tamed (and all before winter if you do it correctly..) You are rewarded with 1000hp that passively Regenerate itself, a built in walking cane capable of carrying heavy items for you, and Darksword levels of Damage.

that’s just the bells OBVIOUS Use: now let’s get into the Not So Obvious-

2- You can “Bond” a Beefalo 1 by 1 and carry them wherever you want them on the map such as.. Wigfrid can always have a Meat source around by just bonding a Beefalo to follow her away from its herd and then killing it when she needs the meat.

3- Bonded Beefalo are bound to the Bell rang by their ear so you can bond a Beefalo and take it to the caves (lunar grotto if you want) then break your bond to have that Beefalo remain there, it will create its own herd wherever you leave him.. so Yes.. you technically CAN kill Deerclops, Bearger, Eye of Terror with just a million raised Beefalo, and don’t worry about the bosses making them go extinct.. you have backups in that lunar grotto to replace the whole herd with later remember?!

Klei did not design the game especially Caves Content around the idea people will have 1000hp passive regenerating, Walking Canes..

So your “Powercreep” goes out the Window the moment Beefalo Bell became a permanent core gameplay item.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

How do 60% of people think there's not power creep when every single character who's been reworked (except for one) has received nothing but buffs, sometimes huge enormous buffs? Look at the DSA characters and compare them to DST, DST has super crept characters.

And that's not even getting into all the powerful items that have been added.

because they dont step on each other

for example, they added bone armor but it doesnt make other armor useless, they added the CC crown which doesnt make moggles or miner hat useless, glass cutters doesnt make dark sworks useless, etc etc etc

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

So your “Powercreep” goes out the Window the moment Beefalo Bell became a permanent core gameplay item.

beefalos dont make armor and weapons useless

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

because they dont step on each other which

for example, they added bone armor but it doesnt make other armor useless, they added the CC crown which doesnt make moggles or miner hat useless, glass cutters doesnt make dark sworks useless, etc etc etc

beefalos dont make armor and weapons useless

Maybe they don’t, but they also make handling a hound/depthworms wave relatively easy.

Consider the noobs who aren’t going to be running around with super late game armor & weapons.

plus: Armor Forgo’s the backpack slot, Beefalo do not.. and they’re 1000hp passively regenerating Armor.

Depthworms we’re always the most annoying part of trying to explore caves as a noob for me, but now Beefalo make them a Non-Threat.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe they don’t, but they also make handling a hound/depthworms wave relatively easy.

powercreep means that new stuff makes old one useless

[Mike23Ua]

1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

powercreep means that new stuff makes old one useless

Okay then, so we both agree that Beefalo who were never designed or intended to be used inside a cave “power creeps” all of the caves content? Cool glad we got that settled then (also I love chatting with you  thanks for not ignoring my messages <3)

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

13 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay then, so we both agree that Beefalo who were never designed or intended to be used inside a cave “power creeps” all of the caves content?

no because at the end beefalos doesnt add any mechanic neither numbers that makes having a hambat and a log suit. They have pros and cons like not wasting materials except for few twigs, speed and healing by blue caps is more efficient (80 health per cap is very respectable) but also is easy to lose them if you aren't carefully, rooks, worms and ancient guardian deal a lot of damage

i use them sometimes for the caves and is superfun to change the routine but also is scary because is one of the most risky things to do with a beef, a unnecessary risk for what i meantioned early

 

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

also I love chatting with you  thanks for not ignoring my messages <3

i like how passionate you are and how much you enjoy the game using your own knowledge instead of surrending and copying free win methods on youtube or spoiling content with guides. There arent much players that still doing that in the internet era where beating games is as easy as search on internet

[Mike23Ua]

9 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I like how passionate you are and how much you enjoy the game using your own knowledge instead of surrending and copying free win methods on youtube or spoiling content with guides. There arent much players that still doing that in the internet era where beating games is as easy as search on internet

Spoiler

Aw heck no man, could you imagine how much less fun a classic game like Batman Arkham Asylum/City or Resident Evil 7 would be if you spoiled it’s puzzles by looking it up online?! That’s not the way I enjoy games, if people want to do that it’s fine, more power to them but I feel it’s more satisfying to learn things on your own, unfortunately that also means that there is a TON of Content I have yet to experience, and therefore miss out on 

(I still have no clue how to activate these empty centipede husks in the ancient library) I’m hoping one of the playable characters has a quote that “hints” at what I need to do but there is a lot of content in DST that you simply would never find out on your own I don’t know why Klei designs things this way but it makes for a very confusing game.

I have a friend message me wanting help with the Metheus puzzle & they’re telling me I need to find a specific chest and insert a specific combination of things into it.

What?? That’s information I’m pretty sure NO ONE just learns on their own, however there are other things you CAN learn on your own (like how to Summon Bee Queen … Thanks Willow! <3 -I died-)

In general I love “puzzle solving” like I grew up playing games like Clue & Scooby Doo & I was always the smart one to figure things out, it’s just how I play my games, I only look things up online when i get stuck for literal weeks or months on end and stop having any fun, but it’s also no fun when you read something & are like “I could’ve eventually figured that out, or I was just about to try that..”

I beat a game that I’m sure very few people ever actually beat, a game that required you to “Reset” the game at a specific point of the game when you get stuck with a countdown clock till your demise, this game was X-Men on the Sega Genesis & only ever beat that game because I got frustrated with it & im like “Wtf do you mean reset the consoles?” FINE -presses reset on Sega- “There.. I reset the console, Happy?! … holy crap that actually worked.”

In my current DST situation I’m in a biome with some dead metal centipedes and I’m trying to socket some glowing Easter egg into it, I’m looking through Klei’s update trailers to see if it shows a “hint” at what I need to do but for now I’m just like

“Take thing, TAKE THING!! Florp.”

Not everyone has the time or patience to play games in this way and that’s fine, no one’s judging them.. but at the same time: people shouldn’t expect me to know everything you can/can’t do in DST before I can ask for more of the types of content I enjoy.

I realize this is all probably way off topic so I’m spoiler tagging it. (sorry JoeW!)

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

15 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I still have no clue how to activate these empty centipede husks in the ancient library) I’m hoping one of the playable characters has a quote that “hints” at what I need to do but there is a lot of content in DST that you simply would never find out on your own I don’t know why Klei designs things this way but it makes for a very confusing game.

3 hints:

1. you can see in the archives 3 thulecite pillars, 2 of them with a weird gem (you can remove the gem to see it better with no problem) so 1 is missing

2. watch the "a new reing" trailer where wilson and willow are fighting at full moon many enemies.

3. there is only 1 staff that drops the gem when deconstructed and that staff isnt obtained by crafting

 

the bad thing about this game is that a lot of things are reaaally difficult to find by your own. I have no problem to give you hints without spoilers if someday you want to experience new stuff, just DM when ever you feel like you want to experience them. The trailers help a lot but still being confusing

[Yuuko]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

How do 60% of people think there's not power creep when every single character who's been reworked (except for one) has received nothing but buffs, sometimes huge enormous buffs? Look at the DSA characters and compare them to DST, DST has super crept characters.

And that's not even getting into all the powerful items that have been added.

I think its because player skill and choice are still bigger factors in the game then general power level.  With Wanda being clearly the strongest combat character in the game now, why are Wanda's not flooding every server?  Because utilizing her powers requires you have a certain level of skill in the game, a desire to meet combat challenges head on, and a willingness to part with preferred flavor for pure power.  If all 3 boxes aren't checked, you're probably not going to play her.

If the game were PVP maybe things would be different, but as a pve game where any character, even Wes and Wolfgang can access all of the content, there is no reason everyone has to swap over to Wanda.  They can still play how they want, with all the strengths and penalties that come with that play style.

[HowlVoid]

Wish there was an Idc option for number 4 because if something has powercreep than I may not use it but idc if others do.

As for powercreep itself, idk, I haven't seen it? 

I agree that some characters feel incomplete *cough* Willow *cough* but as for items I don't think there's power creep. 

To me it always seemed like glass cutters are a way for resource gatherers with mining/woodcutting perks to get a darksword type weapon. Darkswords have better synergy with combat characters due to how fast they can kill shadow creatures and mush gnomes. 

Its not powercreep but I think there's too much function behind the weather pain. There should be more items that can do the same or similar because so munch function behind a single item is weird to me. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

32 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Its not powercreep but I think there's too much function behind the weather pain. There should be more items that can do the same or similar because so munch function behind a single item is weird to me.

yes please!!

im tired of klei adding bosses which needs weather pains, seems like never is enough for them

just give us an aoe weapon and a x2 speed weapon but with weak damage so we can farm other things than moose goose and goats...