Wolfgang's Character Refresh is Coming Next Week!

[Yuuko]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Please for the love of food nothing too crazy.. I actually can’t play Dead by Daylight at ALL because I can’t do the timing in the Dumb TUTORIAL- so even though I bought the game thinking I would be able to enjoy it (why not everyone’s playing) I actually HATED it and didn’t have the patience to learn the timing- but this isn’t the first time “button timing” mini games prevented me from playing a game: Long ago the WWE games (when they were still good..) required you to mash the buttons on your controller repeatedly to get back up (like just spamming X, A, B, Y on a controller- Later games in the franchise (which I used to buy every single year..) changed the kick out system to have Dead By Daylight (long before that game was ever even a thought…) same kind of button pressing at the right timing on a little Meter: Because of this I could get hit ONCE knocked to the ground and no longer be able to kick out: This effectively RUINED the WWE games for me and I haven’t been able to enjoy them anymore since.

So TL:DR- Please Klei keep the Mini-Game simple and none of that hyper fast perfect timing BS or else it really WILL be too Tedious for Me to care to do..

It would still work for you because the heavier weights give you more success zone.  You have to try to fail this game.

[thentor0802]

4 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

It would still work for you because the heavier weights give you more success zone.  You have to try to fail this game.

Add wolfgang's workouts to action queue, let's make a bot do it because it so EXCITING, FUN. kek

[sudoku]

3 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

It would still work for you because the heavier weights give you more success zone.  You have to try to fail this game.

Whyd they even bother with a minigame at all. Should have just had us use the flex emote a couple times, the resulting gameplay is the same.

[reallychina]

2 hours ago, Shosuko said:

With the current mighty mechanics I don't think this will work.  Stone and gold dumbbells are horrible, and even with gembells there are no fast ways to get out of wimpy on the fly.  Imagine your first week being wimpy the entire time just b/c you can't get access to any way out, and even late game if you neglect your mighty b/c you don't need 2x damage boost every ***** day, but then a hound wave comes and you're in wimpy...

 

That would be the beauty of it - managing it. Wimpy would be a huge risk but can reward 50% speed for getting to pseudostation very fast, and there you setup a Gym with best statues. 

Even if wimpy transition would be hard, normal to mighty and back would not be. You have to cruise the threshold and manage hunger, use the speed in normal and jump back to mighty on fights, lose speed, gain 2x dmg. But also don't get too mighty because when the fight ends you're left with no speed bonus and with a useless 2x.

 

I think this would add great depth to the gameplay and tactics around gyms. Gem dumbells are also not hard to get and last for a while.

[BezKa]

30 minutes ago, thentor0802 said:

as the rework comes out.

Been playing him since beta was available. Personally, I like the reworked Wolfgang a lot, so I will be coming back to him long after the hype is gone, at least I think so. 

No idea about other people though

[Astraia]

Ong this thread already has 42 pages

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, BezKa said:

Been playing him since beta was available. Personally, I like the reworked Wolfgang a lot, so I will be coming back to him long after the hype is gone, at least I think so. 

No idea about other people though

Nah, at this point I'll just keep playing Wanda.  Wolfgang is more tanky, but the upkeep for his dps is WAY over costed.  With all of the other damage perks in the game now, his is an outlier.  If he kept the FULL mighty mode perks, including speed, I could see the current mightiness grind as appropriate because the speed is that good.  But without the speed, he could have free Mighty 24/7 and still find himself on the back burner...

I really don't see any reason to nerf Wolf both ways, making him less rewarding AND more tedious...

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, sudoku said:

Whyd they even bother with a minigame at all. Should have just had us use the flex emote a couple times, the resulting gameplay is the same.

If you frequented the leaked assets pages you’d find out things like: 

Spoiler

There’s a skin for Antlion Cave Boulders, and there was an actual Animation for Bench Pressing Beefalo.

Those things lead me to believe Klei wants to take Wolfgang in the Direction of being a MIGHTY Character, and not just a MIGHTY SPEEDY one. The Speed perk never made any sense to be on a Circus Strongman anyway.. (and neither did the faster food drain)

Circus people have to be in front of a large audience for long periods of time without Food breaks.. so I have no idea why his hunger drained like a Horse.

People are upset that Wolfgang LOST SOMETHING: But news flash- So did Wicker, So did Wendy, So Did Willow…

Its Only Wolfgang only had 2 or 3 things about him so any change at all and people whine about it.

Im a Wendy main: Before Wendy’s Rework there was actual Danger involved in needing to recover Abigail’s flower from wherever on the map she dies.. NOW that Flower never leaves Wendy’s Inventory.. no matter what Abigail dies to- trying to Recover Abigail’s flower from a pig torch set piece or out from under an angry Deerclops was a real danger to that Wendy: Now it’s not. But they also removed her Sanity station and Nerfed it by giving her an actual Sanity Station (you need to stand kissable close to to reap benefits of.)

These characters are being changed, and Klei even said they expect these changes to be GAME CHANGING.

Im pretty sure the full release of Wolfgang’s rework will dive deeper into his “Might” beyond just hitting harder, but he can’t do all these fabulous new “Might” Related things and still be the Olympic sprint gold medal winner.

 

[Yuuko]

33 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Circus people have to be in front of a large audience for long periods of time without Food breaks.. so I have no idea why his hunger drained like a Horse.

Because strongmen must eat ~10k calories a day to support their muscle mass, and usually eat this spread between 5-8 meals.  The eating continually to maintain mighty was incredibly thematic.

The oldWolfgang design is very well done from every perspective except game balance.  It was thematically appropriate, mechanically fluid and consistent, you felt good when you went mighty, the physicality of his perks were communicated intuitively via size change and movement speed, including the linear scaling since he visually scaled with it.  Even going wimpy felt a good kinda bad because you saw him getting hungry and knew why he went small.

There was nothing bad about the previous Wolfgang except that it was too much in comparison to other characters - which has become less a problem as other characters have received their reworks.  Next to oldWendy, oldWolfgang had way too much - but compared to newWendy, oldWolf actually fits right in.  newWolf is definitely a step backwards in elegant design and fulfilling player fantasy.  newWolf is like if we reverted to oldWendy and called it an upgrade :\ 

[Sweaper]

DK feels for Wolfgang, he no longer monke https://youtu.be/npuuTBlEb1U?t=55

 

[JustExo]

Gamers

What perks does wolfgang have outside of combat to compete with the utility of another damage dealer like Wanda?

 

[Echsrick]

56 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Gamers

What perks does wolfgang have outside of combat to compete with the utility of another damage dealer like Wanda?

 

moving statues

[Mike23Ua]

28 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Because strongmen must eat ~10k calories a day to support their muscle mass, and usually eat this spread between 5-8 meals.  The eating continually to maintain mighty was incredibly thematic.

The oldWolfgang design is very well done from every perspective except game balance.  It was thematically appropriate, mechanically fluid and consistent, you felt good when you went mighty, the physicality of his perks were communicated intuitively via size change and movement speed, including the linear scaling since he visually scaled with it.  Even going wimpy felt a good kinda bad because you saw him getting hungry and knew why he went small.

There was nothing bad about the previous Wolfgang except that it was too much in comparison to other characters - which has become less a problem as other characters have received their reworks.  Next to oldWendy, oldWolfgang had way too much - but compared to newWendy, oldWolf actually fits right in.  newWolf is definitely a step backwards in elegant design and fulfilling player fantasy.  newWolf is like if we reverted to oldWendy and called it an upgrade :\ 

If you could passively pump the Dumbell as a thing Wolfgang just does on his own as you walk around doing other stuff.. would the changes feel better to you?

Im asking because Klei obviously put a lot of time, and heart into this rework this is how they want to portray their character, this wasn’t just One man’s decision- the whole dev team had to agree on the approach they wanted to take with his rework, and it’s likely here to stay after a few tweaks and improvements based on feedback.

I would be really really surprised if they just scrapped the whole rework and keep him as the only character not getting a rework.

[JustExo]

Just now, Dr.Medic said:

moving statues

Wanda even does that better with her watches

[Echsrick]

57 minutes ago, JustExo said:

Wanda even does that better with her watches

wolfgang has a better voice

[Mike23Ua]

Just now, JustExo said:

Wanda even does that better with her watches

Wanda is a paid DLC character too… want to know what’s special about Paid DLC characters??? They usually do what the FREE ones do but Better.

This isn’t just my Opinion, it can be proven as fact: look at the 10+ Nerfs Wraith has gotten in Apex Legends (she was one of the free starting characters) compared to the newly released ASH who does Everything Wraith did… but Further and Better then she EVER dreamed of.

I think therefore it’s perfectly fair to expect paid DLC characters to perform better then the starter ones (I don’t agree with it… but games have been doing it for years..)

[Yuuko]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

If you could passively pump the Dumbell as a thing Wolfgang just does on his own as you walk around doing other stuff.. would the changes feel better to you?

That is one of the suggestions people have mentioned, and how I thought it would work when they first announced his new kit.  I think that would help because it means less downtime.  It also gives choices, and actions.  You would swap between cane and weights while running around to charge up your mighty as you reach a fight.  You would swap from your weapon to weight while fighting to upkeep mighty.  Also if you're caught out of mighty, like a hound attack catches you, you can run around with the weight gaining mighty (or at least getting out of wimpy) so you can turn and fight them.

There are a lot of suggestions that have been given that would help newWolf work well.  I trust Klei is going to listen, and adjust things - why else would they open up the beta?  I also doubt they will completely revert, and I think that's okay.  But lets not pretend oldWolf was bad design, or that newWolf is great.  oldWolf was one of the best designed characters they've ever done, and newWolf is definitely rough around the edges.

[JustExo]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wanda is a paid DLC character too… want to know what’s special about Paid DLC characters??? They usually do what the FREE ones do but Better.

I think therefore it’s perfectly fair to expect paid DLC characters to perform better then the starter ones (I don’t agree with it… but games have been doing it for years..)

Just because that is typically the case doesn't mean that it has to be the case

Saying that its expected because "That's how it is for other games" isn't a good enough reason to make the characters the way that they are

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

That is one of the suggestions people have mentioned, and how I thought it would work when they first announced his new kit.  I think that would help because it means less downtime.  It also gives choices, and actions.  You would swap between cane and weights while running around to charge up your mighty as you reach a fight.  You would swap from your weapon to weight while fighting to upkeep mighty.  Also if you're caught out of mighty, like a hound attack catches you, you can run around with the weight gaining mighty (or at least getting out of wimpy) so you can turn and fight them.

There are a lot of suggestions that have been given that would help newWolf work well.  I trust Klei is going to listen, and adjust things - why else would they open up the beta?  I also doubt they will completely revert, and I think that's okay.  But lets not pretend oldWolf was bad design, or that newWolf is great.  oldWolf was one of the best designed characters they've ever done, and newWolf is definitely rough around the edges.

I think adding an alternative to gaining might such as keeping your hunger at like, 180 or higher would be interesting

It'd let people who want to rush bosses incredibly early do it, albeit still at a cost, while still incentivizing players to use the gyms and the dumbbells because it would be more efficient in terms of might gain over time

[EATZYOWAFFLEZ]

56 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

but compared to newWendy, oldWolf actually fits right in.

Ah yes because new Wendy is incredible now and is a force to be reckoned with. 

Seriously tho, you can't be comparing new Wendy to the status of Wolfgang

[JustExo]

Just now, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

Ah yes because new Wendy is incredible now and is a force to be reckoned with. 

Seriously tho, you can't be comparing new Wendy to the status of Wolfgang

New Wendy is real strong tbh

People don't give her enough credit for what she's able to do

[Well-met]

i wish the gym needed 2 potatoes to craft. I don't like how these sacks full of potatos spawn out of nowhere.

also make wolfgang start with 4 potato pls

klei really has been dropping the ball with crafting recipes lately

4 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

Ah yes because new Wendy is incredible now and is a force to be reckoned with. 

Seriously tho, you can't be comparing new Wendy to the status of Wolfgang

yes she is lol 

[Milordo]

2 minutes ago, JustExo said:

New Wendy is real strong tbh

People don't give her enough credit for what she's able to do

I think you and @EATZYOWAFFLEZ slept for over almost 2 years now that the rework has passed. 

Nobody here ever said Wendy is not strong when she is almost too strong.

There have been for almost a year a lot of "discussions" to nerf her lol.

[Yuuko]

5 minutes ago, EATZYOWAFFLEZ said:

Ah yes because new Wendy is incredible now and is a force to be reckoned with. 

Seriously tho, you can't be comparing new Wendy to the status of Wolfgang

oldWolf was only OP in comparison to other survivors.  Without the comparison, his design was amazing.

I think its perfectly appropriate to point out that Wendy and Wanda have amazing dps with very little upkeep, why does Wolf have so much upkeep if he's *only* getting damage?

[reallychina]

51 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

That is one of the suggestions people have mentioned, and how I thought it would work when they first announced his new kit.  I think that would help because it means less downtime.  It also gives choices, and actions.  You would swap between cane and weights while running around to charge up your mighty as you reach a fight.  You would swap from your weapon to weight while fighting to upkeep mighty.  Also if you're caught out of mighty, like a hound attack catches you, you can run around with the weight gaining mighty (or at least getting out of wimpy) so you can turn and fight them.

There are a lot of suggestions that have been given that would help newWolf work well.  I trust Klei is going to listen, and adjust things - why else would they open up the beta?  I also doubt they will completely revert, and I think that's okay.  But lets not pretend oldWolf was bad design, or that newWolf is great.  oldWolf was one of the best designed characters they've ever done, and newWolf is definitely rough around the edges.

 

I think the new system is much more balanced when it comes to getting mighty. Gembell is very fast and there's no excuse to not be ready, hound waves have a long warning period. Even if get caught pants down, it's part of the beauty of the game.

 

New system calls for some planning, old system was too easy when it came to activate it, it's just that it's too slow because of no speed buff and the Gym taking too long.

I much prefer the new way where i don't have to worry about food at all, i just want the speed back in normal and i'm gucci.

[Well-met]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

oldWolf was only OP in comparison to other survivors.  Without the comparison, his design was amazing.

I think its perfectly appropriate to point out that Wendy and Wanda have amazing dps with very little upkeep, why does Wolf have so much upkeep if he's *only* getting damage?

because 50% and probably more of dont starve is combat.

wendy has been in need of a nerf for ages and I was told wanda is just fine