Wolfgang's Character Refresh is Coming Next Week!

[Orty97]

2 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

That's fine. I probably wouldn't like you when you're angree.

That entails you might like me when i'm not angry. That's a win in my book 

[reallychina]

28 minutes ago, sawchuk said:

... Not really. It costs less than half a stone to maintain mighty form for an entire day with the gembell.

 

You can still manage might without a panflute in combat. Lifting a dumbell between enemy attacks is not that different than eating between enemy attacks.
 

 

Yes but it's very annoying. You have to right click to equip it then move your cursor exactly on top of it to use it.

 

There needs to be a better system implemented.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

10 minutes ago, reallychina said:

Yes but it's very annoying. You have to right click to equip it then move your cursor exactly on top of it to use it.

crazy skills

[PGlitchz_Arcade]

I feel it is a bit unfair that Wimpy Wolfgang has 20% less armor while Mighty wolfgang has no armor benefits. I think he should get a 20% armor buff to because he is more "strongmanly". Sometimes stronger people can resist pain from more blows so if he is Mighty and Strong, it would make sense that he would have additional armor. Plus I think that there should be an easier way to lift THE DUMBBELL/GEMBELL

[Lokolo]

Few more points, now in regard of other ideas given on the forum:

First of, i don't feel like we need any change in the mechanics of new wolfgang ( no speed boost, no faster mining or wood chopping, there are already other characters better suited for that, having the strongest combat perk is enough for Wolfy, in that regard he is stronger than before ).

Tweaks on the existing mechanics are fine, the rock dumbbell Feels worthless, it could be a bit better at regular form, unless its intended to feel weak,introduce the mechanic and make you go try getting the gold dumbless and build the gym, i think it works for new players the way it is.

Being Whimpy SHOULD NOT be rewarded in anyway, if you want a early speed buff, get a beefalo, maybe make staying out of whimpy form a little bit easier, but rewarding you for neglecting the strenght metter does not make any sense.

For my experience on other games that take feedback from the community... the Devs ( usually ) know better, and releasing this beta in such circunstances was a mistake , now you will feel obligated to change, even if it feels right, have in mind that you ( Devs )  won't be able to make everyone happy, and it should not be the case anyway, this game isn't competitive, and there no problem in using modes, anyone not satisfied with the new wolfgang just use mods, it's no big deal.

Scaling feels much better, like other characters that can fully take advantage of their perks after some time, Warly needs ressources for his special foods and spicies, Wormwood needs time to get bloomed, Wanda with her watches, Wigfrid with her songs, Wendy with her potions, walter with his munitions, Winona with her catapults, Webber and Wurt same deal, wx with his gears, Wilson with his beard? (lol),  and so on... As in before Wolfgang would be as hard as eating some Carrots to get his perk to full potential.

Most importantly, its way more fun to play the way it is now with Wolfgang rework.

 

[sudoku]

43 minutes ago, Lokolo said:

Scaling feels much better, like other characters that can fully take advantage of their perks after some time, Warly needs ressources for his special foods and spicies, Wormwood needs time to get bloomed, Wanda with her watches, Wigfrid with her songs, Wendy with her potions, walter with his munitions, Winona with her catapults, Webber and Wurt same deal, wx with his gears, Wilson with his beard? (lol),  and so on... As in before Wolfgang would be as hard as eating some Carrots to get his perk to full potential.

But its entirely the opposite now? Wolfgang required resources in the form of food to go mighty. Meaning he had to hunt/fight/explore/harvest then cook his meals. 

Outside of building the gym once, the resources he required are replaced with a minigame which requires you to do none of the above listed activities, or you know the bulk of the gameplay in this game.

[Lokolo]

14 minutes ago, sudoku said:

But its entirely the opposite now? Wolfgang required resources in the form of food to go mighty. Meaning he had to hunt/fight/explore/harvest then cook his meals. 

Outside of building the gym once, the resources he required are replaced with a minigame which requires you to do none of the above listed activities, or you know the bulk of the gameplay in this game.

If you are implying its easier now to get and maintain mighty form than before from day 1, you either didnt played the beta, or your are being  purposefully deceptive, the easiest thing in this game is to keep your belly full

[sudoku]

15 minutes ago, Lokolo said:

If you are implying its easier now to get and maintain mighty form than before from day 1, you either didnt played the beta, or your are being  purposefully deceptive, the easiest thing in this game is to keep your belly full

No, i am saying that the resources you needed (food) worked in tandem with the goal and activites of the game. 

Playing a minigame is the opposite, which is why its called a minigame, it exists seperatley from the normal loop of gameplay.

Like I mean sure food was easy to obtain but it is still a resource in the game, the gym provides mightiness out of thin air.

[jtubio88]

Lest go 1k post in this treat 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

23 minutes ago, Lokolo said:

If you are implying its easier now to get and maintain mighty form than before from day 1, you either didnt played the beta, or your are being  purposefully deceptive, the easiest thing in this game is to keep your belly full

loses early game but gains in quality of life in deep early-mid game

[Lokolo]

24 minutes ago, sudoku said:

No, i am saying that the resources you needed (food) worked in tandem with the goal and activites of the game. 

Playing a minigame is the opposite, which is why its called a minigame, it exists seperatley from the normal loop of gameplay.

You completely failed to explain how and why the new reworked wolfgang scaling is worse than before, being more efficient in food gathering and production isn't really scaling in this context, getting a full belly by carrying 20 carrots you got while exploring and 2 meat stews is exact the same thing in terms of getting Wolfgang mighty, being efficient about food is a game mechanic inherant of any charcater, you don't see anyone rushing farms or crockpots with wolfgang because food efficiency and production is crucial to wolfgang's mechancis, quite the opposite actually, you just run around in early game eating what you find, and this can be done by day 1 ( im refering to old wolfgang for context ) 

 

 

[Ohan]

4 minutes ago, sudoku said:

No, i am saying that the resources you needed (food) worked in tandem with the goal and activites of the game. 

Playing a minigame is the opposite, which is why its called a minigame, it exists seperatley from the normal loop of gameplay.

That is precisely what was the problem with old wolfgang, everyone needs and gathers food, the easiest and most basic activity in the game. But only old wolfgang was rewarded with (fluctuating) double damage, 1.25 speed and 300hp for doing the most basic thing in the game. Besides you still need extra food to sustain working out and maintaining mightiness you know that right? 

Ur making up ur own definitions of things and then getting mad at them. How is the gym a ‘minigame’ but fishing is not or planting a seed is not or chopping wood or mining is not? 

It rewards wolfgang with mightiness, double damage to make us of. Like clicking on a pond and then clicking again rewards you with a fish. Or repeatedly clicking on a tree rewards u with wood. 

But since seemingly nothing short of a total revert will satisfy you, i dont think theres really much left to say. 

[Yuuko]

4 hours ago, reallychina said:

The people celebrating the nerf simply don't understand how much the speed was used OUTSIDE of combat.

• Mighty Wolfgang should not get the speed bonus.
• Normal Wolfgang should get the legacy flat speed bonus all the time.
• Wimpy Wolfgang should get 1.5x speed with major penalties like not being able to wear any armor (and not even wield a weapon maybe) and receiving double damage or something, essentially making him one shot and useless but very fast (cause he's wimpy and scared so he runs away).

With the current mighty mechanics I don't think this will work.  Stone and gold dumbbells are horrible, and even with gembells there are no fast ways to get out of wimpy on the fly.  Imagine your first week being wimpy the entire time just b/c you can't get access to any way out, and even late game if you neglect your mighty b/c you don't need 2x damage boost every ***** day, but then a hound wave comes and you're in wimpy...

With the current mechanics I think they need to change it so that normal is the default form, and mighty helps you go might BUT if you are starving you drop a form, so if you are mighty and empty belly you drop to normal.  If you are normal and empty bell you drop to wimpy.  Doing this would make a more punishing wimpy form possible, but I think that is a very convoluted mechanic...  I'm gonna miss the simplicity of oldWolfgang.

1 hour ago, Lokolo said:

For my experience on other games that take feedback from the community... the Devs ( usually ) know better, and releasing this beta in such circunstances was a mistake , now you will feel obligated to change, even if it feels right, have in mind that you ( Devs )  won't be able to make everyone happy, and it should not be the case anyway, this game isn't competitive, and there no problem in using modes, anyone not satisfied with the new wolfgang just use mods, it's no big deal.

The Klei devs did know better - and knew they should announce this first.  We already went through Wendy's refresh where they dumped her on release with her notes - and her kit was actually interesting, just very mismatched thematically - and the backlash for that.  If this were a new character it would be different, but this is an established character with a devoted playerbase and a VERY recognizable playstyle...  This is almost like breaking shoto characters in SF...  "sorry Ryu, you don't get hadoukens anymore b/c ranged attacks op"

[sudoku]

6 minutes ago, Ohan said:

That is precisely what was the problem with old wolfgang, everyone needs and gathers food, the easiest and most basic activity in the game. But only old wolfgang was rewarded with (fluctuating) double damage, 1.25 speed and 300hp for doing the most basic thing in the game. Besides you still need extra food to sustain working out and maintaining mightiness you know that right? 

Ur making up ur own definitions of things and then getting mad at them. How is the gym a ‘minigame’ but fishing is not or planting a seed is not or chopping wood or mining is not? 

It rewards wolfgang with mightiness, double damage to make us of. Like clicking on a pond and then clicking again rewards you with a fish. Or repeatedly clicking on a tree rewards u with wood. 

But since seemingly nothing short of a total revert will satisfy you, i dont think theres really much left to say. 

You are being pedantic. The definition of gameplay is referring to the activites you do in the game, clicking is merely how you execute them.

If you play a first person shooter you are simply pressing a button to shoot your gun, however the gameplay you are likely doing is more than that. 

When you go chopping a tree, yes you are simply clicking but the gameplay implications surrounding that action are tied to crafting. The gym minigame is quite simply clicking in a designated area. It has no further bearing on gameplay.

That is the distinction i am trying to make.

[Ohan]

1 hour ago, sudoku said:

When you go chopping a tree, yes you are simply clicking but the gameplay implications surrounding that action are tied to crafting. The gym minigame is quite simply clicking in a designated area. 

The gameplay implications surrouding working out at the gym are tied to combat.

How can you make that connection for chopping wood but not for working out? 

I acknowledge that the new wolf is different in some major ways and that can be tough for people who were used to the old wolf but i also genuinely believe the new wolf is much more interesting, fun and has more depth to him than before where he was just a bundle of crazy stats unlocked by eating food. 

[sudoku]

23 minutes ago, Ohan said:

The gameplay implications surrouding working out at the gym are tied to combat.

How can you make that connection for chopping wood but not for working out? 

But its not though? 

The perk itself for sure is tied to combat, but the method in which you obtain it is not.

Look at Wigfrid who builds her meter by fighting and is rewarded with her song abilities.

Whereas Wolfgang builds his meter by either playing a minigame before combat, or watches animations from the dumbell before combat.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

atleast make the minigame not for babies to be more engaging and rewarding.

Right now is the kind of minigame you would use to test Wilbur's IQ 

[Duck986]

6 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

atleast make the minigame not for babies to be more engaging and rewarding.

Right now is the kind of minigame you would use to test Wilbur's IQ 

like in legacy GTA: SA where you were required to spam LMB and RMB to increase your strength

[Lokolo]

12 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

atleast make the minigame not for babies to be more engaging and rewarding.

Right now is the kind of minigame you would use to test Wilbur's IQ 

Im not sure how much more engaging the minigame could be, rapid clicking for a mutiplier before the timing game, and give a bonus for a really tight timed hit, making the rapid click up to a 2x multiplier ( around 8 clicks per second ) and a 100ms window for a "bull's  eye" in the timing game

Edit: maybe add an special animation with some fireworks or ringing bells if you get the perfect score making you fill the metter instantly or even going as far as giving some extra time without losing might, like a special buff

[Capybara007]

5 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

The reason they are best suited for tanking because they slow you down too much to make kiting effective. Unless you are Mighty Wolfgang

If you are kiting you shouldnt get hit too often, instead of using body protection you can use a mag, it will help you kite more easily, that with a head protection.

"But you cant have mag in early game"? You also cant have marble suit early either "Yes you can, its more accesible than mag" Then if you really want body protection just use a log suit.

And if you are mighty you already have x2 damage, meaning that fights wont last long if you tank, meaning that you wont need to burn so many marble armors

 

[thentor0802]

4 hours ago, BezKa said:

I didn't like him before at all, but after the beta I find myself thinking about playing DST as him more and more.

I mean of course, everyone will play as wolfgang as the rework comes out. But I'm not sure if people will keep playing as him as time passes. :'(

9 hours ago, ColdHeaven said:

i'm sure there will be a mod that allow us to play old wolfgang

I was thinking about this, I hope!

[Cloakingsumo198]

1 hour ago, Lokolo said:

 being efficient about food is a game mechanic inherant of any charcater, you don't see anyone rushing farms or crockpots with wolfgang because food efficiency and production is crucial to wolfgang's mechancis,

Bro do you even see how Wolfgang, warly, and wormwood players play?

Nobody wants to focus their attention to the gym equipment, it's nice to get into mighty when you're running low in the meter.  But to bother to keep returning to your gym everyday or making these dumbbells to carry where you go is just a chore when compared to. Finding food in chunks as you explore and fight slowly amassing resources that increase your might, not every moment was spent stuffing your face but accumulating enough to do so in the needed moment.  Just make his might meter gain a bit or slow it's drain whilst performing regular actions

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Lokolo said:

Im not sure how much more engaging the minigame could be, rapid clicking for a mutiplier before the timing game, and give a bonus for a really tight timed hit, making the rapid click up to a 2x multiplier ( around 8 clicks per second ) and a 100ms window for a "bull's  eye" in the timing game

Edit: maybe add an special animation with some fireworks or ringing bells if you get the perfect score making you fill the metter instantly or even going as far as giving some extra time without losing might, like a special buff

I think the game is close... but it goes the wrong way.  Adding weights gives you a FAT success bar, its really hard to mess this game up...  If the max success stayed the same size as potato weights, but extended lesser-success ranges to the sides with each upgrade, AND the speed were probably +20% it would be good enough for me.

[thentor0802]

9 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

im playing him even when i always loved it but feelt bored for how dumb and grindy was. I didnt enjoy farming tons of food just to have easy mode. Now feels less stupid

in your previous commeny you expressed yoourself like if you didnt tried it. I recommend you to try him before saying things like 

Bruh. I tried him. And with all honestly, all I felt was that it was unnecessary. This game is already filled up with repetitive activities, now they're adding another one to a character. And the nerfs too, first time I thought it wont be a big deal but after I saw Glermz stream I agreed with him, he was nerfed for no reason.
Think about it, was it really necessary to make the character more complex to play as? I think no. I didn't like anything new added, just bc most of it are whatever and the things that did make a significant chance make the character less fun to play. Mark my words, this rework will have even less people playing as him as time passes, and this is ******* depressing.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

atleast make the minigame not for babies to be more engaging and rewarding.

Right now is the kind of minigame you would use to test Wilbur's IQ 

Please for the love of food nothing too crazy.. I actually can’t play Dead by Daylight at ALL because I can’t do the timing in the Dumb TUTORIAL- so even though I bought the game thinking I would be able to enjoy it (why not everyone’s playing) I actually HATED it and didn’t have the patience to learn the timing- but this isn’t the first time “button timing” mini games prevented me from playing a game: Long ago the WWE games (when they were still good..) required you to mash the buttons on your controller repeatedly to get back up (like just spamming X, A, B, Y on a controller- Later games in the franchise (which I used to buy every single year..) changed the kick out system to have Dead By Daylight (long before that game was ever even a thought…) same kind of button pressing at the right timing on a little Meter: Because of this I could get hit ONCE knocked to the ground and no longer be able to kick out: This effectively RUINED the WWE games for me and I haven’t been able to enjoy them anymore since.

So TL:DR- Please Klei keep the Mini-Game simple and none of that hyper fast perfect timing BS or else it really WILL be too Tedious for Me to care to do..