The Wolfgang Rework coming in December!

[DarkPulse91]

10 minutes ago, Dextops said:

this literally only applies to combat characters which he is designed to be the STRONG MAN why make him weaker i see no point i would much rather make him more interesting and nerfing isn't the way to go about it

And you would be surprised how many people treat this game as if combat is the only mechanic.

"If your character can't do 200 damage, then what's the point of playing as them"

 

And I'm not arguing to just make him do less damage, because that's not a rework

I want him to truly be REWORKED

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, DarkPulse91 said:

And you would be surprised how many people treat this game as if combat is the only mechanic.

"If your character can't do 200 damage, then what's the point of playing as them"

and how is this the fault of the character?

[DarkPulse91]

Just now, Dextops said:

and how is this the fault of the character?

Because he is seen as the "best" combat character, and since combat is the only important part of dst, all other characters are instantly worthless.

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, DarkPulse91 said:

Because he is seen as the "best" combat character, and since combat is the only important part of dst, all other characters are instantly worthless.

yeah but im failing how this is wolfgangs fault and not the communities fault of glorifying combat characters

[DarkPulse91]

13 minutes ago, Dextops said:

yeah but im failing how this is wolfgangs fault and not the communities fault of glorifying combat characters

Because he is the most uninteresting character in the game, he has no downside. He has nothing that makes combat difficult/interesting with him in the slightest. No risk vs reward. only reward. You don't see people immediately calling Wanda the best because she actually has a downside, she is a glass Cannon and needs to be at risk to do high damage, all Wolfgang needs to do is eat healing food to stay at high damage. He needs a downside to make combat interesting. Not a "stand there and hold f" simulator

Just because "it's not his fault" doesn't mean he doesn't need to be changed at all. When he is the core argument of it

 

[Blaze-]

2 minutes ago, DarkPulse91 said:

Because he is seen as the "best" combat character, and since combat is the only important part of dst, all other characters are instantly worthless.

Combat isn't the only important part of dst, not at all. Resource gathering is, and how fast characters can gather them & time management. And Wolfgang is nowhere near the best at that, even at combat, Wendy is far better in almost any scenario with the exception of bosses. Wolfgang isn't a versatile character, he can hit harder and that's it while other characters have a plethora of more useful perks. But because of limitless bias and unfounded opinions he is often portrayed as the best character in the game (mostly by players who hate him and never really played him properly)

[Dextops]

12 minutes ago, DarkPulse91 said:

Because he is the most uninteresting character in the game

i see wendy more boring since wolfgang does have a downside wendy while not as good as wolfgang just has an aoe killer and not much else she doesn't have that much of an interesting downside and im not a fan of her personality

[Mike23Ua]

Look all I’m saying is IF Klei is reworking Wolfgang to have actual fun new interesting abilities like being able to carry Statues, Boulders, Giant Food Crops without any movement speed penalty, Superman punch Trees and Rocks and Salt Formations, And Rip Grass And Saplings out the ground with his Barehands without needing to use any tools “Tree Roots & All” IF they make it so he can carry heavy objects and also NOT be penalized for wearing things like Marble Armor cough cough…

Then The Strongman is going to need some much justified Nerfs/Rebalancing

Removing his movement speed buff but slightly INCREASING raw damage output to account for being able to wear armors without movement penalty.. And balancing that further by forcing him to do a little more then just shove a couple trays of food in his mouth- THEN Wolfgang would become interesting, more powerful, balanced & No less of a Strongman.

The only thing that WOULD take a hit would be move speed buff and ability to become mighty just by eating stuff.. but I believe those are fair Nerfs considering all the utility and power I’m suggesting here.

Like I said as a Wendy Main- I have to do Wendy Exclusive stuff and craft a Wendy exclusive structure AND carry around several different items taking up inventory slots just to get maximum use out of Wendy’s character.

This isn’t just WENDY- It’s a Trend every single rework with the sole exception being WES has gotten- (new items you always need to carry around with you filling up inventory slots.)

Most recent example being Webber, the Webby Whistle, And being able to pick up and carry his spiders (for things like taking them into or out of caves with you)

Wolfgang is just “Eat Potato, Run Faster, Hit Harder.. and it’s totally BORING.. I hate it.

Please Klei hear the cries for a even more powerful, more interesting & fun (but still fairly balanced) Strongman.

[Dextops]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Removing his movement speed buff

God please no being able to chop trees and mine rocks (i assume they would take longer than an axe and pick axe) doesn't justify removing his only utility out of combat

[Milordo]

1 hour ago, Dextops said:

i see wendy more boring since wolfgang does have a downside wendy while not as good as wolfgang just has an aoe killer and not much else she doesn't have that much of an interesting downside and im not a fan of her personality

Everyone have their taste, you can dislike her emo nature and we can argument that her downside is a bit ridiculous thanks to her rework, ecc...

But you're really stating that wendy, having all the fun gameplay of managing abby and exterminate a lot of animals, doing the minigame of spooks, strategies on what potion you need for that boss or a particular situation is more boring than " I eat, i punch " ???

[HowlVoid]

I want Wolfgang to uproot trees and mine boulders with his bare hands.

Also replace his punch attack with an aerial round-house kick. 

 

[Dextops]

1 minute ago, Milordo said:

Everyone have their taste, you can dislike her emo nature and we can argument that her downside is a bit ridiculous thanks to her rework, ecc...

But you're really stating that wendy, having all the fun gameplay of managing abby and exterminate a lot of animals, doing the minigame of spooks, strategies on what potion you need for that boss or a particular situation is more boring than " I eat, i punch " ???

yes

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, Dextops said:

i see wendy more boring since wolfgang does have a downside wendy while not as good as wolfgang just has an aoe killer and not much else she doesn't have that much of an interesting downside and im not a fan of her personality

You're starting to sound like Guille. 

You and Guille hanging together a lot more often huh?

Like word for word.

[Dextops]

Just now, HowlVoid said:

You're starting to sound like Guille. 

You and Guille hanging together a lot more often huh?

i just don't like wendy

before and after meeting guille

[Guille6785]

10 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

You're starting to sound like Guille. 

You and Guille hanging together a lot more often huh?

Like word for word.

damn it I've been caught

[Blaze-]

Quote

 she is a glass Cannon and needs to be at risk to do high damage

She can avoid taking damage with backstep, plus she can always wear armor and helmet to compensate the loss in health, she can also heal. Just so you know the whole DST combat is based on kiting therefore her 35hp isn't such a problem, so if used by the right person she is the very best. And I haven't even mentioned her other op abilities such as teleporting anywhere, from cave to surface or the ability to even create wormholes allowing others to travel across miles in a instant, plus the fact that she can revive herself unlimited times (which also renders hunger useless as you can always revive yourself).

Quote

 Not a "stand there and hold f" simulator

That's how combat works for every single character in this game, there is no combat system whatsoever. Just spam hit and kite or tank( waste of resources most of the times).

Quote

he has no downside. He has nothing that makes combat difficult/interesting with him in the slightest

Wolfgang has downsides, his hunger drains like crazy and he can't always be in mighty form, there's 3 forms available and plenty of micromanagement involved. You need time to gather and farm that food, to cook it and to keep Wolfgang at full hunger bar (all which is time consuming, and time is the most important asset you have in the game) He has his downside all the time while he only gets an edge during battles. Some characters struggle with combat while others thrive at it, Wolfgang sucks in  scenarios where others characters thrive. That's the point of the game to make each character good at something in particular. e.g. ww and Wendy can farm food to keep Wolfgang running because he eats too damn much and struggles with managing hunger, while Wolfgang helps them with fights and boss battles. This is what Don't Starve Together is all about, synergy and teamwork.

And that little damage bonus in not that significant considering all the variables in the game, it is only situational.

You give me the impression that you only played Wolfgang in creative mode, if you want to learn more about him go find a public non-endless server starting on day 1, then see for yourself how 'insanely overpowered he is'.

TIme is the essence of the game and time efficiency is what matters the most.

You start the game and see the food, health and insanity meter but you also have a clock which shows the time. That time is what matters most in this game, as each day goes by the more your hunger meter depletes and more challenges arrive, the harder the game gets. You need to build a base and prepare for the upcoming season, gather food, resources, items, you need to explore the map, make specific preparations etc. and if we're talking about 'the best character' that would be someone who can do all that in the most effortless and efficient way, and that is not Wolfgang. The amount of ' pls nerf, ban wolfgang cuz wolfgang op' is scary, it just shows that a big amount of players can't form critical and coherent opinions or a clear analysis.

Wolfgang soloes bosses faster indeed, but does it make a difference that Wolfgang kills a beefalo 1 or 2 second faster than Wigfrid? No that is a insignificant difference. His almost double damage is very situational while the perk of other characters are versatile and far far more useful, completely outclassing him. And don't forget this game isn't about solo play.

For example Wendy, she can kill a beefalo around the same time as wolfgang with the help of abigail, but she can also clear 10 spider nests in 2 minutes, that is an absolutely insane feat and an insane amount of monster meat and silk( two of the most useful resources in game) which Wolfgang needs 2 days to farm by combat and would probably die trying as he is overwhelmed by multiple enemies. She almost never has to take damage from any non boss mobs because abi can deal with it. Now if you're smart and micromanage abi and her elixirs and exploit her strengths she is unstoppable, we're talking clearing whole biomes of killer bees in seconds, easy ruin clearing, destroying whole pig/bunnymen villages, farming lots of shadow monkeys for stacks of nightmare fuel all this in the shortest timespan possible with no damage taken and effortlessly. Wolfgang can kill a mob slightly faster but Wendy can kill 20 of them in almost the same time with abi's AOE & elixir. If we're talking who's the best we need to talk who's more efficient and time effective, who's more versatile and does things better.(who can get resources and items easier) 

Wolfgang is the best at soloing bosses but she completely dominates Wolfgang in everything else, and does everything else better, faster and much easier. 

[Dextops]

6 minutes ago, Blaze- said:

She can avoid taking damage with backstep

just kite

[Mysterious box]

29 minutes ago, Milordo said:

Everyone have their taste, you can dislike her emo nature and we can argument that her downside is a bit ridiculous thanks to her rework, ecc...

But you're really stating that wendy, having all the fun gameplay of managing abby and exterminate a lot of animals, doing the minigame of spooks, strategies on what potion you need for that boss or a particular situation is more boring than " I eat, i punch " ???

She has the concepts but no incentive to use them or even fight for her self in common situations while Wolfgang is bland he still requires you to master combat to use him effectively.

[Milordo]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

She has the concepts but no incentive to use them or even fight for her self in common situations while Wolfgang is bland he still requires you to master combat to use him effectively.

You're not saying anything new from what i said. If i mastered the combat of the game what does it change if i'm playing as Wolfgang, Willow, Wendy, Wilson, ecc... Wolfgang doesn't have abilities or perks that give him a special attack like clapping his cheeks for an AoE shockwave. He only helps you to shorten the boss fights in less minutes, if you eat. Full stop. There is nothing, nothing at all, so i repeat we're really arguing that " I eat, i punch " is really not bland and boring at all?

On the contrary, Wendy it's far more interesting because atleast you have abby that you need to manage in combact, so she beat the monoty of Wolfgang, Wilson, every other characters who is not a fighter.

 

I repeat  " I eat, i punch "

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Erineyes7 said:

So far Characters who've gotten reworks haven't really needed new revamped downsides.

Wendy has lower damage

Willow is hurt by the cold, and low sanity

Wigfrid can't eat meat

and so on...

The "big three" have never really had potent downsides, that's where most people have problems with their balance, so it would make sense to give them something more meaningful

To be fair if poor wicker gets a potent downside she might get wiped off the character selection screen I swear i never see wickers anymore lol.

That aside I do feel like the best approach would be giving him a downside and a teamplay perk he is fast and strong but there are faster and stronger options.

2 minutes ago, Milordo said:

You're not saying anything new from what i said. If i mastered the combat of the game what does it change if i'm playing as Wolfgang, Willow, Wendy, Wilson, ecc... Wolfgang doesn't have abilities or perks that give him a special attack like clapping his cheeks for an AoE shockwave. He only helps you to shorten the boss fights in less minutes, if you eat. Full stop. There is nothing, nothing at all, so i repeat we're really arguing that " I eat, i punch " is really not bland and boring at all?

On the contrary, Wendy it's far more interesting because atleast you have abby that you need to manage in combact, so she beat the monoty of Wolfgang, Wilson, every other characters who is not a fighter.

 

I repeat  " I eat, i punch "

She has more options but generally no need to use them she has more options but that doesn't mean she's more interesting some people might find having a kill bot more interesting some people might find hitting harder to be more interesting that being said I don't really play either character so who am I to judge.

[Milordo]

13 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

To be fair if poor wicker gets a potent downside she might get wiped off the character selection screen I swear i never see wickers anymore lol.

That aside I do feel like the best approach would be giving him a downside and a teamplay perk he is fast and strong but there are faster and stronger options.

She has more options but generally no need to use them she has more options but that doesn't mean she's more interesting some people might find having a kill bot more interesting some people might find hitting harder to be more interesting that being said I don't really play either character so who am I to judge.

Oh yes, oh yes, of course. I'm not here to say which person should play as or have fun with.

We're just saying to death, because literally years passed away of repeating that Wolfgang in contrast, for example Wigrifid, is boring as heck and doesn't provide , directely , any help for the team. I was super intrigued to kill treeguards or spider queens or whatever was in front of me for the first time but it burned out pretty quickly. This is not an opinion, i mean " i eat, i punch " what you need to do more? That's why the rework probably will not be as Wigfrid but more adding new stuff with a bit of nerf. Toros' mod is already a good start for Wolfgang AND for other characters rework sincerely.

Balance (pros and cons), fun, synergies and help for other players, powers linked to the character story and personality for more immersion, changing your playstyle (not always too much). This is what a Don't Starve character should have as gameplay.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, Dextops said:

God please no being able to chop trees and mine rocks (i assume they would take longer than an axe and pick axe) doesn't justify removing his only utility out of combat

When Superman punches a hole through the monument statue while trying to punch the flash in the movie Justice League.. he does so in ONE PUNCH.

And I would expect no less from Wolfgang in mighty mode (it’s a video game full of wacky characters with wacky skills idc if it doesn’t make logical real world sense..)

Honestly I would kind of like to be able to pick up Boulders like the ones Antlion drops during summer in caves, and Throw those Boulders short distances to flatten enemy spider hordes with. 

It’s taking a character that’s all about eating food and becoming God Mode- And bringing him back down to earth… no less of a Strongman with crazy Strength based abilities..

But also not running around at the speed of Flash either because he’s just Strong… not a Marathon Runner.

[Dextops]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

When Superman punches a hole through the monument statue while trying to punch the flash in the movie Justice League.. he does so in ONE PUNCH.

And I would expect no less from Wolfgang in mighty mode (it’s a video game full of wacky characters with wacky skills idc if it doesn’t make logical real world sense..)

Honestly I would kind of like to be able to pick up Boulders like the ones Antlion drops during summer in caves, and Throw those Boulders short distances to flatten enemy spider hordes with. 

It’s taking a character that’s all about eating food and becoming God Mode- And bringing him back down to earth… no less of a Strongman with crazy Strength based abilities..

But also not running around at the speed of Flash either because he’s just Strong… not a Marathon Runner.

never said it wasn't possible which it isn't but yeah dst logic so it works but im talking about removing her speed boost

[minespatch]

If he is to be reworked, they should do a juggling act between his military and circus past.

[Dr. Safety]

Just as some flavor, I want mighty Wolfgang to chop/mine faster but absolutely chew through the tool's durability while doing so. I like the idea of the meathead of the group picking up and axe and just smashing it into a tree, killing both the tree and the axe

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Mighty Wolfgang can clap his cheeks so hard he creates an AoE shockwave that deals damage

If anyone has ever played South Park: The Fractured But Whole, I instantly thought of the Spontaneous Bootay fight. I was gonna post a clip, but if you have ever seen this fight then you know why I didn't