The waterlogged biome will suffer the same fate as the barnacles

[JosePapp]

The waterlogged biome has an amazing atmosphere and cool looking mobs, but in its current state it only serves the purpose of being a novelty much like the barnacle biome.

It's features include an ok food source in figs, that don't even have more fruit value than berries and are not replantable, therefore don't seem alluring on their own besides novelty, a fish reskin with no unique properties, and the grass Gator that, while cool looking, is just a niche mob.

All of this sounds cool for like one visit to see the biome, but it gives it no longevity and it also doesn't warrant an ocean expedition for anything more than curiosity.

In its current state, I feel like it'll be as forgotten as the barnacle biome in just a few weeks after release, which is the shame, so I really hope Klei looks at the feedback and tweak it in order to make it more unique.

Little things like allowing the above average trees to grow figs, giving sweetish fish sweet value or  making fireflies respawn on the biome would go a long way.

However if the devs are up to it, some other cool stuff like allowing the tree to somehow grow on land and maybe making it so the full moon doesn't affect things under it, that could really make it stick out. I know there are far better compilation posts, but each grain of sand forms the desert, right?

[me real life]

2 hours ago, JosePapp said:

as forgotten as the barnacle biome

Are barnacles forgotten? I know a lot of people who use them for their fish value, and I personally eat a lot of linguini when I'm not Wurt.

About the waterlogged biome itself, nah, from my experience it's really really good for early game food, silk, and driftwood, and (especially with the changes to rowing) I can see people who enjoy boating going there first thing to get some knobbly nuts to plan a base around... I've been doing that for the whole beta, personally!

[Szczuku]

Yeah, once the update goes live I'm giving it about a week before everyone forgets about it.

The only people that will constantly visit that biome are the same people that use Sea Weeds. They want to feel special because they're not following the meta. The fact that figs and barnacles require additional ingredients to be useful as opposed to a bunnyman farm which provides one with jerky should be enough to discourage most players from depending on them. Not to mention that you have to go out of your way to sail to those biomes.

Imo the only thing that would make that biome worth visiting more than once would be a firefly spawner. 

[Roodmas]

1 hour ago, Szczuku said:

The only people that will constantly visit that biome are the same people that use Sea Weeds. They want to feel special because they're not following the meta.

Is there anything wrong with that, really? One gets bored of cooking the same recipes constantly. In my latest game I decided to try alternatives and how well they fare. The one recipe that stuck was barnacle nigiri, it is the exact same thing as pierogis but they are more efficient for me to produce once you have all the ingredients nearby (and since I'm playing this world for thousands of days, I had nothing better to do than to set this up). I'm saying that because I use meat rather for hunger than for healing.

Sure it is not the path that many choose, but it would be pretty boring for me to play this game the exact same way every time I start a new world. So there is no need for the hipster-shaming.

Since figs can't be replanted though, I do agree that regularly harvesting figs might be too much of a chore. Unless the mangrove spawns right next to your base... even then I would mostly just use it for tree jam, or the occasional novelty food.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Szczuku said:

They want to feel special because they're not following the meta.

Hilarious

[JosePapp]

6 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

Are barnacles forgotten? I know a lot of people who use them for their fish value, and I personally eat a lot of linguini when I'm not Wurt.

About the waterlogged biome itself, nah, from my experience it's really really good for early game food, silk, and driftwood, and (especially with the changes to rowing) I can see people who enjoy boating going there first thing to get some knobbly nuts to plan a base around... I've been doing that for the whole beta, personally!

I mean I've never personally gone out of my way to get them, they're just... there, which isn't wrong per say but it also feels kinda lame. 

It's like they're aiming to make the next red mushtree biome rather than the next desert if you catch the analogy. It's a niche biome, and to It's credit it has potential, like telelocating gators into a gecko pen or saving on flingos with the small bit of shade the above average trees provide 

[Just-guy]

10 minutes ago, JosePapp said:

I mean I've never personally gone out of my way to get them, they're just... there, which isn't wrong per say but it also feels kinda lame. 

It's like they're aiming to make the next red mushtree biome rather than the next desert if you catch the analogy. It's a niche biome, and to It's credit it has potential, like telelocating gators into a gecko pen or saving on flingos with the small bit of shade the above average trees provide 

I think Barnacles would be used more if Sea Stacks could be moved or created in more accesible areas to plant Sea Sprouts since the don't really have a zone restriction like Mushtrees or Cactuses.

[Hornete]

6 hours ago, Szczuku said:

They want to feel special because they're not following the meta.

Is it really that crazy to you that people just like playing differently? I'd be done with this game years ago if I just kept eating meatballs and making bunnyman farms, or whatever the meta is nowadays.

[ADM]

Well, in this case it might be even worse in term of productivity. Sea Weeds can be relocated and that's what I find good with them, barnacles aren't half bad as they offer nice alternative recipes and so could do the figs but sucks you have to go all the waaaaaay to a place just to return with a handful of them that you anyway use all to grow trees to have shade wherever you find it pretty or useful, so...

Figs for fig foods is pretty much a bad time investment, even I don't care much about saving time on the game, I'll never see myself using them for cooking... UNLESS < copy paste the 55 comments and topics to grow vines on planted trunks >

[JosePapp]

In retrospect,  giving the sweetish fish sweetener value feels kind of dumb, perhaps they could drop figs on dead somewhat like the corn cod?

[Well-met]

On its own it might be novelty but once you have a big enough number of novelties then it mixes into an overall good piece of content (i.e ocean)

i am perfectly ok with this update

[me real life]

10 hours ago, Szczuku said:

The only people that will constantly visit that biome are the same people that use Sea Weeds. They want to feel special because they're not following the meta.

Baffling to me to see the claim that people doing more than one (1) set of tasks in a sandbox game is... them trying to feel special?? Rather than just doing what they enjoy doing in a sandbox game?? Is any other sandbox game's community so constantly adamant about it being wrong to do anything except a meta?

[Well-met]

8 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

Baffling to me to see the claim that people doing more than one (1) set of tasks in a sandbox game is... them trying to feel special?? Rather than just doing what they enjoy doing in a sandbox game?? Is any other sandbox game's community so constantly adamant about it being wrong to do anything except a meta?

What Szczuku likely means is the devs aren't putting enough effort/reward ratio to new content, which means there is little reason to go through potential boat hassle and disasters for yet another optional food source. I don't think they specifically try to call out or insult people. You are the one choosing to read it that way.

[Szczuku]

9 hours ago, Roodmas said:

Is there anything wrong with that, really?

No

16 minutes ago, Sunset Skye said:

Snip.

 

6 minutes ago, Well-met said:

What Szczuku likely means is...

Thank you.

Sure, I could've worded that better but it generally boils down to what Hornete said:

4 hours ago, Hornete said:

I'd be done with this game years ago if I just kept eating meatballs and making bunnyman farms

One goes out of their way to use those... uncommon food sources to spice up their game experience. No way that a new player would decide to travel the ocean rather than just plant a bunch of berry bushes.

[me real life]

7 minutes ago, Well-met said:

I don't think they specifically try to call out or insult people.

They do.

9 minutes ago, Well-met said:

What Szczuku likely means is the devs aren't putting enough effort/reward ratio to new content, which means there is little reason to go through potential boat hassle and disasters for yet another optional food source

Which is a valid opinion to have, however I will mention again that they said people who continue using the biome just "want to feel special because they're not following the meta", which is absolutely calling out and insulting people with a heavy implication that doing anything against the meta is bad. What you got from what Szczuku said and what I got from what Szczuku said are not mutually exclusive, they are two halves that make up their whole post.

[HowlVoid]

Funny enough this update is bringing me back to the game after a long hiatus. While this update doesn't offer much to the meta (something I usually care about), it introduced something I think a lot of people are taking for granted.

The first steps into World terraforming

Projects that allow you to have a hand in changing the natural environment (past just planting a few trees) is the most sandbox thing we've been able to do in this sandbox game.

I want more of this. 

[Roodmas]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Funny enough this update is bringing me back to the game after a long hiatus.

Same, I have this world where I mapped out the entire ocean, just to be able to see immediately where new ocean stuff spawns after an update like this. I'm excited to explore this biome and bring home all the figs :D:D

[Theukon-dos]

12 hours ago, Roodmas said:

Is there anything wrong with that, really? One gets bored of cooking the same recipes constantly. In my latest game I decided to try alternatives and how well they fare. The one recipe that stuck was barnacle nigiri, it is the exact same thing as pierogis but they are more efficient for me to produce once you have all the ingredients nearby (and since I'm playing this world for thousands of days, I had nothing better to do than to set this up). I'm saying that because I use meat rather for hunger than for healing.

Sure it is not the path that many choose, but it would be pretty boring for me to play this game the exact same way every time I start a new world. So there is no need for the hipster-shaming.

Since figs can't be replanted though, I do agree that regularly harvesting figs might be too much of a chore. Unless the mangrove spawns right next to your base... even then I would mostly just use it for tree jam, or the occasional novelty food.

 

7 hours ago, Hornete said:

Is it really that crazy to you that people just like playing differently? I'd be done with this game years ago if I just kept eating meatballs and making bunnyman farms, or whatever the meta is nowadays.

 

While there's nothing wrong with using "off-meta", and Szuku definitly could have been a bit less... Abrasive, about it. If the only good reason to choose one option over another is for Variety's sake, then I feel like there's still a problem to be had.

[goblinball]

I don’t think all biomes need to be something you constantly return to. Who ever goes into the triple Mac tusk once you get a cane and tam? Who ever returns to beefalo herds once they have a beefalo hat and a tamed beefalo? There are very few reasons to return to these biomes after exploring them once, and I think that’s fine. The ocean’s biggest problem is that it isn’t fun to explore, making the ocean give lots of stuff wouldn’t make exploring more fun.

[me real life]

15 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I don’t think all biomes need to be something you constantly return to. Who ever goes into the triple Mac tusk once you get a cane and tam? Who ever returns to beefalo herds once they have a beefalo hat and a tamed beefalo? There are very few reasons to return to these biomes after exploring them once, and I think that’s fine.

Glad someone said this. I guess it's just because it's new content, but for some reason stuff in the ocean is judged WAY more harshly than all the stuff that's always been around and we're used to. There's a lot of biomes that you won't return to much unless you're megabasing or it's between two points of interest, so this little bayou even just having knobbly nuts already gives it a decent leg up.

19 minutes ago, goblinball said:

The ocean’s biggest problem is that it isn’t fun to explore

I do disagree with this, though. I find myself having more fun rowing around the edges of the map first thing rather than walking along them normally, which gives me a full outline of the map + most points of interest out in the ocean, and any stragglers like sea weeds and Crab King generally get found while going after the treasures from all the bottles that get built up just from existing out in the ocean so much.

That combined with ocean content just being a lot of fun to interact with, like ocean fish and gnarwails and the waterlogged biome and salt and etc, and the huge amount of recipes available to you out there (especially due to having a crock pot permanently with you), makes the ocean tons of fun to explore imo!

[-Kiyo-]

17 hours ago, JosePapp said:

It's features include an ok food source in figs, that don't even have more fruit value than berries and are not replantable

You made me go check, and you're absolutley right. I took them being one full unit of fruit for granted simply from their appareance... And that fact coupled with the sweet canopy aesthetics was making the update a good one for me since it'd make cooking Fruit Crepes more of a natural occurence.

But there's more! Koalefant trunks in the pot only have one unit of meat value? Klei, fix please?

[Theukon-dos]

34 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I don’t think all biomes need to be something you constantly return to. Who ever goes into the triple Mac tusk once you get a cane and tam? Who ever returns to beefalo herds once they have a beefalo hat and a tamed beefalo? There are very few reasons to return to these biomes after exploring them once, and I think that’s fine. The ocean’s biggest problem is that it isn’t fun to explore, making the ocean give lots of stuff wouldn’t make exploring more fun.

Triple mac tusk is good for farming Lazy explorers, if you're planning to fight AF.  And Beefalo are a good source of meat. Beefalo wool is a good for base building and fuel. And Beefalo herds are good for early-mid game hound waves and Frog Rain.

 

and @Sunset Skye is right. Knobly Nuts are more of a reason to re-visit the waterlogged biome compared to even some mainland biomes. The issue is that the ocean as a whole has practically nothing to it's name.

 

If you're exploring the mainland, then there's a variety of biomes that you'll pass through while exploring. And even if there isn't much reason to re-visit most of them, the variety's atleast there. And there's generally something to gain just by passing through them. Sahvannas got a lot of grass and beef. Forests have lots of spiders, along with the occasional grave or pig house. Rock Biomes have gold and tall birds. Ect. Ect.

 

The ocean, on the other hand, has both a noticable gate to explore it in the first place (Lots of wood, plus stuff for sails and anchors if you want to explore at a reasonable rate), and you get barely anything to show for it.

90% of the ocean is comprised of a single biome, which has little more in it than fish and kelp.

Barnacles are an average food source.

Salt is used for like, 2 things. 3 if you're Warly. The first being a fridge side grade, and the second being a very slow, and honestly kind of expensive method of renewable Theulicite.

The lunar island has mid-tier gear at best, I'd say. And stone fruit are nice, but little more than a convinience.

Crabby Hermit has some stuff, but gives mostly just more fishing items.

Crab King is considered one of the hardest/worst bosses in the game, and his reward is something too expensive to practically use.

 

And then Celestial Champion. Easilly the longest, most drawn-out task list in the game. Gives a glorified mining hat as a reward. I haven't seen a single person consider this a worth-while reward.

 

Compared to how expensive it is to explore and how long it takes to do so, There is very little reward for exploring the open ocean. And what is out there is little more than minor convenience items.

 

Just compare the ocean to the caves. They're almost as desolate as the ocean. But they're free to explore at any time, and have valuable items such as

Lightbulbs for lanterns.

Glowberries for moggles.

Bunnymen, which make for a great food source and mob/boss farmers.

The ruins, which have some of the strongest items in the game.

Easy early-game living logs in the lunar grotto.

and probably more I'm forgetting.

 

Point is, people are so harsh towards the ocean because, for all intents and purposes, it's an entirely new world just like the caves. Yet you can completely ignore it without missing out much on... anything.

 

[me real life]

3 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

The ocean, on the other hand, has both a noticable gate to explore it in the first place (Lots of wood, plus stuff for sails and anchors if you want to explore at a reasonable rate)

It's 8 boards and a log to get a boat with an oar, then you just have to find one driftwood nearby and go make a driftwood oar, and you're gonna be exploring at a very good pace imo. It's something that takes like a day to set up once you've found some gold, and while I've barely found myself needing an anchor or sails since the beta, you can upgrade to them later as you explore and find either sea striders or a forest with spiders that you can quickly hop off to kill.

11 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

And then Celestial Champion. Easilly the longest, most drawn-out task list in the game. Gives a glorified mining hat as a reward. I haven't seen a single person consider this a worth-while reward.

You're surrounded by negativity, then. My whole friend group uses crowns pretty frequently just for the sanity/light, and when I play Wurt I'm glued to the thing 24/7. The crown is an awesome reward for something you only have to obtain once per player and never have to perform any sort of maintenance on, even if just using it as an upgraded tam.

15 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Just compare the ocean to the caves. They're almost as desolate as the ocean. But they're free to explore at any time, and have valuable items such as

Lightbulbs for lanterns.

Glowberries for moggles.

Bunnymen, which make for a great food source and mob/boss farmers.

The ruins, which have some of the strongest items in the game.

Easy early-game living logs in the lunar grotto.

and probably more I'm forgetting.

Feel like it's worth mentioning in a conversation like this that caves had a very negative reputation when they were new, with players barely going down there for a long time after release and a Klei dev even saying about the caves content that nobody liked it, and it felt periphery.

27 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

Point is, people are so harsh towards the ocean because, for all intents and purposes, it's an entirely new world just like the caves. Yet you can completely ignore it without missing out much on... anything.

It's absolutely not like an entirely new world. Land exists while you're sailing, usually no more than ~20 seconds of rowing away, unlike the caves where you will generally have to take a long trek through the darkness and ascend a cave entrance to get out of this completely sectioned-off secondary world. And like I said in my last post here, the way I explore the ocean gives me an entire outline of the mainland, because I'm simply in a different part of the same world.

[Theukon-dos]

2 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

It's 8 boards and a log to get a boat with an oar, then you just have to find one driftwood nearby and go make a driftwood oar, and you're gonna be exploring at a very good pace imo. It's something that takes like a day to set up once you've found some gold, and while I've barely found myself needing an anchor or sails since the beta, you can upgrade to them later as you explore and find either sea striders or a forest with spiders that you can quickly hop off to kill.

Ah. Fair point. But even then, what are you looking for out there? On land you've got all the different biomes, set pieces, ect. You can't exactly look for, say, Pig King while on a boat.

Quote

You're surrounded by negativity, then. My whole friend group uses crowns pretty frequently just for the sanity/light, and when I play Wurt I'm glued to the thing 24/7. The crown is an awesome reward for something you only have to obtain once per player and never have to perform any sort of maintenance on, even if just using it as an upgraded tam.

I didn't say that the crown was a bad reward. But it's in no way worth all the headache you need to go through to get it.

Let's just compare the Celestial Champion to the Ancient Fuelwaver.

To fight the AF, you have to

>Kill the Ancient Guardian for the ancient key.

>Repair the Chess pieces and kill them to get a shadow atrium

>Find the tentepillar that leads to the atrium.

>Kill a difficult boss.

And you're rewarded with an upgraded nightmare amulet, a shadow thurible which has a few uses, Bone armor; which is possibly the single most powerful item in the game, and the Ruins get reset making the most powerful gear in the game renewable.

To fight CC, you have too:

*Deep breath*

Go to the ocean. 

Find the Lunar Biome.

Assemble the Altar.

Go to the Ruins.

Make a Starcaller's staff and deconstruction staff.

Complete the Moonstone Event.

Disassemble the Mooncaller's staff.

Go the the Archives.

Turn on the Archives.

Do the Minigame for the Astral Detector.

Find the Celestial Sanctum with the Astral Detector

Find Crabby Hermit's island.

Befriend her for Pearl's Pearl.

Find CK with the Astral Detector.

Kill CK with Pearl's Pearl.

Bring all that stuff to the Lunar Island.

Activate the Moonstorm event.

Do Wagstaff's quest.

Kill Queen Bee (Or turn on Winter's Feast) So you can actually get the stuff you need to the Lunar Island without it spoiling.

Assemble the lunar collector.

Kill a hard boss.

And for that. all you get is a ton of moon glass and a shiny crown. Don't you see a bit of a discrepancy there?

 

Quote

Feel like it's worth mentioning in a conversation like this that caves had a very negative reputation when they were new, with players barely going down there for a long time after release and a Klei dev even saying about the caves content that nobody liked it, and it felt periphery.

1. I wasn't playing when caves where new. So I can't speak for them too much.

2. The ocean isn't new anymore. In six days, Turn of Tides will officially turn 2 years old. If I was making this post 6 months or even 12 months after ToT, then sure. Maybe that would be an argument. But as it stands, There's little to no reason for Oceans to still be in the state they're in.

Quote

It's absolutely not like an entirely new world. Land exists while you're sailing, usually no more than ~20 seconds of rowing away, unlike the caves where you will generally have to take a long trek through the darkness and ascend a cave entrance to get out of this completely sectioned-off secondary world. And like I said in my last post here, the way I explore the ocean gives me an entire outline of the mainland, because I'm simply in a different part of the same world.

Yes, but the ocean and land areas never interact. You don't cross the land while exploring the ocean the same way you might cross the sahvanna biome on your way to the desert. And if you're exploring the ocean, you don't pop back onto land unless you need to resupply or drop off some items. For all intents and purposes, they're entirely different and segregated areas.

[JosePapp]

I just wanna say I'm happy with the current changes to the biome making the trees yield figs and yield more wood. I'd still like em to somehow be planted on land via pools or the fireflies respawning, but I feel like that small change made everything 100% times better