Webber free and unlimited healing!

[Alienm]

Just now, QuartzBeam said:

Okay, we get it. :P

The forums glitched, every time i pressed "submit reply" it would just add to the post, i dont know what happened

[Copyafriend]

10 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

In any case, what would you suggest to balance Webber from his current status?

Remove or VIOLENTLY nerf nurses healing webber like 2 health per, and make spiders temporary again.

Being able to ignore outside healing for the most part isnt fun or fair, the game shouldn’t balanced around players that casually kill bee queen day 20 and have unlimited jellybeans so the healing buff from spiders is a “eh” if you’re leaving the healing make it to where its a bonus of having plenty of nurses, not the main reason to keep them. Their purpose is to heal spiders not makr webber nigh invincible. and for the people that arguued that wortox and wigfrid were super tanky too, wigfrid isn’t nearly as tanky she just has an armor that’s pretty good she can make with some very casual healing and a decent damage reduction, and wortox has a limit to how much he can heal webbers doesn’t run out and is comparable in speed and big one here, doesnt nerf foods into the ground for it. 

and no I seriously don’t think webber needs to be able to keep a small army on him at all times for no upkeep. It sounds like a mod added by someone for lighthearted fun to wage war on the pigs with. Spiders are strong enough to justify having a recruitment cost, they always were,

Id still make some switcherdoodles cheaper though, most aren’t worth the investment. 

[minespatch]

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

switcherdoodles cheaper though, most aren’t worth the investment. 

I think the solution is to find Nitre alternatives or a new nitre source.

[QuartzBeam]

5 minutes ago, AlienMagi said:

Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?

Time... a vicious cycle...

[ShadowDuelist]

6 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Remove or VIOLENTLY nerf nurses healing webber like 2 health per, and make spiders temporary again.

I don't see this fixing anything... it will just force people to have just more nurses to get the same effect. The more spiders, more lag, and more mess....

Temporary spiders makes everything also way more grindy and annoying too.

[Copyafriend]

1 minute ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I don't see this fixing anything... it will just force people to have just more nurses to get the same effect. The more spiders, more lag, and more mess....

Temporary spiders makes everything also way more grindy and annoying too.

Theres a limit to how many nurses can heal you at once, the aoe is only so big, and if someoje wants to push the game to its limit and use two stacks of meat honey and silk (while managing loyalty) to get 40 low dps spiders and 8 health per second, i applaud them for their tenacity. As it is, you need 20 of each for 10 spiders to achieve the same effect more or less permanently at that, and honey is super easy, while monster meat and silk is basically a birthright of webber. 

The point is webbers gimmick is spiders, not healing like weadpool, he feels like an op mod, the nurses shouldn’t be so good that people ignore all other spider types, and i feel like that should be common sense

[Mysterious box]

51 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

And every time you have to go down to caves or up again you have to spend another day or two catching them... or get rid of the nurses before wars... 
I'm not saying playing as him isn't possible or commiting to all these stuff is bad, I personally find it annoying.  The sanity part was just an example, like that you have to handle it, even with a Tam you will get insane more often than any other character. Webber also can't use pigs so he doesn't have any gathering perk before Bearger. He is also a bit worse than the rest when it comes to guiding bearger through a forest, since the negative sanity aura of bearger will force him to have terrorbeak breaks if he's not using BQ crown.
I still personally fail to see him as OP (and I tend to play characters that are widely considered not OP, like Maxwell or Woodie) I dedicated about 30 hours since the rework to Webber, testing a lot of stuff, and found his mechanics more annoying than fun.
But he's probably just not my cup of tea.

In any case, what would you suggest to balance Webber from his current status?

Actually it takes less time since you could just make another trap to transport them again using resources you should always have on you but again you don't need spitters on you at allt their only really needed for bosses and nurses are extremely easily replaced just carry honey most situations call for 2 at most. Using spitters for everyday combat is just flexing. Also as someone who benefits alot from honey why wouldn't you use taffy?

23 minutes ago, AlienMagi said:

Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?

Might sound crazy but I feel Wolfgang and Wigfrid are fine despite the fact Wolfgang can do 2x damage a Wolfgang player still needs to engage in combat and know how to play properly he only makes fights faster and that's fine. Webber has more dps than him in most situations and Walter has consistently faster speed. Saying webber is only somewhat useful is like saying is like saying bone armor is only somewhat useful.

[Copyafriend]

20 minutes ago, AlienMagi said:

Where were you when wolfgang and wigfrid were added to the game? And when wendy got reworked? Why are you so worried about one of the weakest characters in the game finally becoming somewhat useful?

Okay but webber trivializes combat worse than these two with only a few exceptions while also having: get this: no real downsides

17 minutes ago, minespatch said:

I think the solution is to find Nitre alternatives or a new nitre source.

I’m not just talking about spitters, but you are correct

[minespatch]

4 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

I’m not just talking about spitters, but you are correct

You said cheapening the cookie recipe and I was agreeing. Back in the day, they changed the salt like recipe when salt was introduced.

[Copyafriend]

5 minutes ago, minespatch said:

You said cheapening the cookie recipe and I was agreeing. Back in the day, they changed the salt like recipe when salt was introduced.

I appreciate the agreement, its just that nitre only applies to spitter cookies. Warrior cookies are unnecessarily expensive, why waste effectively a football helmet for a single spider that i can already find and plant en-mass, or just use traps to duplicate from dens

the only one that isnt expensive is nurse, and tbh i think it needs to be more expensive, make it a healing glop instead of two honey

[Waynel]

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

[MondayNight]

17 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

The point is webbers gimmick is spiders, not healing like weadpool, he feels like an op mod, the nurses shouldn’t be so good that people ignore all other spider types, and i feel like that should be common sense

You're exaggerating the actual scope of the Spiders utility at large in them pubs (personal and community/dedicated servers, bulk player-base). Fact of matter at end of day: using spiders is still too gimmicky and costly to make it a good, optimal alternative when Wendy, Wigfrid and Wolfgang exist. Likewise the actual good, versatile spiders combo remains Warriors-and/or-Spitters+Nurses, rest being "inferior products", totally negligible. Now - 10 days after Webber's rework went live - with his novelty pretty much still present, he is already 2nd place in general server pickings, after Wendy, Wigfrid gaining dizzying ground. From what I've seen in pubs as tendencies go, SpiderBoy will once more be permanently outrun by Wig, Wilson, and Woodie in the next week, plus the "Holy Trio" afterwards. Contrary to what you want to paint as picture, no, he is not a good tanker in hands of bulk player-base/at large. Needing "12 Football Helmets" for Klaus is one of the worst strats in advanced players' repertoires, and for casuals it only spells certain death/failure (again: look in that video how many times said streamer ran with <40-50 hp for his proverbial life). Managing spiders outside fights is a choir, during fights they go all over place, and one has a mere 0.33s window to prevent them from eating all meat/Deer Eye/Guardian Horn/etc. Bottom line: Webber doesn't do anything better than other characters on same niche, au contraire (see Wendy, Wigfrid, Wolfgang, Woodie Weremoose), only adds complications in the mix for the "lol, look many spiders" meme. What he got is contextual jugglery with a bit more control over his spiders - nothing to tell home about. But from here to "overpowered"...long road.

[Copyafriend]

11 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

that behavior was expliticly stated by the devs to be intended lol

the longer version of what I'm getting at besides "just kite lmao" is that webber simply gives players the option to make general combat easier at the cost of having to get the nurse spiders which seems perfectly fair to me, someone who knows how to avoid damage will simply kite and make effective farms instead of bothering with the spiders therefore saving more time overall (higher skill higher reward, as it should be), I see absolutely nothing wrong with allowing players who don't like combat to make it more comfortable for themselves, webber is just one of many options available

 

also I think everyone forgot that other characters can heal too lol

I didnt see this earlier but let me respond to this burning dumpster fire.

webber has no downsides. Unless you count farming wood with pigs in the first year vital, theres nothing wilson can do that webber cant.

webber has better healing than any other character by default because of nurse spiders, nothing is locked to him as a result of having nurse spiders, so pierogi jellybeans whatever, is still on the table, all while healing enough to make ignoring alternatives viable with a modicum of skill. 80 health over 10 seconds is nothing to sneeze at, and that isn’t exactly a swarm of supports that’s impossible to replace if lost. Its a couple days of dedicated smart farming(which is unlikely outside of a few rare scenarios) and if you do lose loyalty, four or five well placed morsels isn’t exactly breaking the food bank they deal damage too, not super fast or efficiently, but hey they sure do contribute noticeably, and if they all do die, you’re still just as strong as wilson. My question, specifically to you guille, is when does trivializing such a large part of the game become too much? What if a character can make a helmet that protects as well as say the thulecite crown with matching durability? Is that too much? What if a new character has an unlimited durability weapon that does hambat damage and no downside. Is that too much? Healing isnt super hard but maybe webber shouldn’t be so good at it for no reason. Its not some massive undertaking to trivialize combat, its a few days of smart farming, you only need 10 nurses, honestly the hard part is the 20 silk, and you cant really tell me its difficult to come up with 20 silk as webber.

its not some massive grind to come up with these numbers, its easy, its powerful, and theres no downside.

I never said nerf wendy because if abigail dies you have massively reduced damage, there is some tradeoff, i dont mind a strong character but webber is literally a mary sue for combat, which is literally the only threat outside of starvation and environmental threats, and between the two of us, ive never had trouble with hunger as webber, even when i first started off, a virtually endless supply of monster meat more or less stopped that issue. 

please, since we’re all apparently blind to your infinite sarcastic wisdom guille, name one situation where webber is at some disadvantage to wilson that couldnt be solved with some spiders. 

Yes i am personally asking you, because you were so sarcastically dismissive of fairly valid concerns. I dont want the game to be easy, dont starve as webber is too easy, prove me wrong.

[Alienm]

1 hour ago, Copyafriend said:

Okay but webber trivializes combat worse than these two with only a few exceptions while also having: get this: no real downsides

 

It's painfully obvious that you never play webber when you don't even mention his extremely low max sanity (which is a big problem during boss fights). And please, explain, how does webber trivialize combat more than wendy who doesn't even have to press F when fighting? Or wigfrid who just holds F and barely needs to kite or deal with sanity loss?

I understand your concerns, but why are you only blaming webber? Sounds like hypocrisy to me.

[sudoku]

Maybe after a nurse spider uses its heal ability 'x' number of times it dies? Kind of like how bees die after they sting. The nurses are sacrficing their own life for healing. That way you have some actual maintenece instead of just an ever growing collection. And x doesnt have to mean like 2 or 3 times, maybe like something in the 20s.

[Kelloggs Dogfry]

21 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

 snip

I mean, a little bit of “smart farming” on any character can net pretty much similar results. You don’t need infinite spider healing to be able to do what was demonstrated in the video. I think the point is that if you desire to/know how to, the game’s mechanics can be “trivialized” any way you want. I don’t see how Webber breaks the mold in any way other than adding a tedious alternative to strategies that already worked before. The fact of the matter is when you’ve gotten an understanding of the game to do things “smartly” you’re basically left with the chore of keeping up the challenge if you so desire or you can abuse the game. It’s not different with any other game you would play a bunch but I think the difference here is that people seem to get shocked that after they learn the game and explore every aspect that everything has very simple abuseable alternatives because at first it seems like an insurmountable mountain of difficulty and truly uncompromising. The only way that will even remotely come back is from new content but that will only last so long. That’s just the nature of games.
 

That being said I did hope for more for Webber than doubling down on the spider mechanics. He had a lot of potential but hey ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Hopefully future characters and refreshes will be more interesting. Ironically the one I was waiting for the most and anticipating ended up disappointing me. I didn’t even set unrealistic expectations, I just hoped they wouldn’t focus on spiders only (and random things like sleeping in spider dens)! Albeit he is a little bit better now I guess. 

[Guille6785]

44 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

please, since we’re all apparently blind to your infinite sarcastic wisdom guille, name one situation where webber is at some disadvantage to wilson that couldnt be solved with some spiders. 

when did I say that webber was worse than wilson

44 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

I dont want the game to be easy, dont starve as webber is too easy, prove me wrong.

dst has always been much more friendly towards casuals, nobody's forcing you to play "easy" characters or use strategies that you feel make the game too easy, you have the freedom to play however you want

[Mr Giggio]

u really try hard to show ur smart ass aspect about every thing other players are talkin about the game? wow
if u rlly dont know how to not contribute without sarcasm leave it for ur discord channel Guille 

[Guille6785]

3 minutes ago, MrSoratori said:

u really try hard to show ur smart ass aspect about every thing other players are talkin about the game? wow
if u rlly dont know how to not contribute without sarcasm leave it for ur discord channel Guille 

I sure appreciate being attacked on a personal level because I said easy healing isn't broken op

[BoysenSyrup]

Remember to keep it civil or Mr. Klei will throw lightning bolts at you.

I think Webbers healing is ok, he already had essentially infinite healing before nurses because of spider farming and nurses are a cool feature that make spiders infinitely more viable for combat. It's fine.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

You're exaggerating the actual scope of the Spiders utility at large in them pubs (personal and community/dedicated servers, bulk player-base). Fact of matter at end of day: using spiders is still too gimmicky and costly to make it a good, optimal alternative when Wendy, Wigfrid and Wolfgang exist. Likewise the actual good, versatile spiders combo remains Warriors-and/or-Spitters+Nurses, rest being "inferior products", totally negligible. Now - 10 days after Webber's rework went live - with his novelty pretty much still present, he is already 2nd place in general server pickings, after Wendy, Wigfrid gaining dizzying ground. From what I've seen in pubs as tendencies go, SpiderBoy will once more be permanently outrun by Wig, Wilson, and Woodie in the next week, plus the "Holy Trio" afterwards. Contrary to what you want to paint as picture, no, he is not a good tanker in hands of bulk player-base/at large. Needing "12 Football Helmets" for Klaus is one of the worst strats in advanced players' repertoires, and for casuals it only spells certain death/failure (again: look in that video how many times said streamer ran with <40-50 hp for his proverbial life). Managing spiders outside fights is a choir, during fights they go all over place, and one has a mere 0.33s window to prevent them from eating all meat/Deer Eye/Guardian Horn/etc. Bottom line: Webber doesn't do anything better than other characters on same niche, au contraire (see Wendy, Wigfrid, Wolfgang, Woodie Weremoose), only adds complications in the mix for the "lol, look many spiders" meme. What he got is contextual jugglery with a bit more control over his spiders - nothing to tell home about. But from here to "overpowered"...long road.

Webber doesn't lose the ability to kite when he has nurses so he doesn't need 12 football helmets and 12 pig skin is quite cheap for being able to mostly just hold F but in between that kite time he's still doing a fair amount of damage. Most content can effectively and cheaply be handled by the "inferior products". Server picking don't seem to mean much as I see more Wilson than Wolfgang.

What specifically makes him not a good tanker in the hands of someone who knows how to play properly?

His sustain and damage output are superior due to the semi invincibility of his horde

The ability to effectively match other combat based characters without requiring much player input is pretty good if you ask me.

Wendy definitely requires less effort to use her ability but that doesn't make webber's bad since he in turn outputs more damage than just about anyone while considering the upkeep costs and sustainability. 

[Friendly Grass]

Amassing nerses takes quite a bit of time and effort to get going, and they’re limited to the shard. And then fighting with spiders still has the downside of them eating meat. You can use the whistle right after a mob dies but in a realistic scenario that’s unreliable.

Farming health as Webber with nerse spiders is about equivalent to sleeping in a tent or tier 3 den.

Easy health for spiders in combat is totally justified:

1. you went to the effort of setting up nerse spiders. You need to get a spider queen to spawn and then fight it until it hopefully spawns a nurse spider you can then finally befriend. And then each switcherdoodle requires 2 monster meat and 2 silk in addition to the honey. 

2. bosses do double damage to mobs

3. regular spiders still often aren’t sufficient with nurse spiders because nerse spiders don’t heal often enough and spiders don’t have enough max health to take full advantage of their healing. You need to use more expensive switcherdoodles to convert spiders and amass superior spider variations.

4. healing has always been easy

[Lord Cafe]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Webber doesn't lose the ability to kite when he has nurses so he doesn't need 12 football helmets and 12 pig skin is quite cheap for being able to mostly just hold F but in between that kite time he's still doing a fair amount of damage. Most content can effectively and cheaply be handled by the "inferior products". Server picking don't seem to mean much as I see more Wilson than Wolfgang.

What specifically makes him not a good tanker in the hands of someone who knows how to play properly?

His sustain and damage output are superior due to the semi invincibility of his horde

The ability to effectively match other combat based characters without requiring much player input is pretty good if you ask me.

Wendy definitely requires less effort to use her ability but that doesn't make webber's bad since he in turn outputs more damage than just about anyone while considering the upkeep costs and sustainability. 

I don't understand you're saying from the beggining webber now is a easy tank with no effort and brain dead players can tank even Klaus but now you're saying that a good player can kite and that's true but if you can kite why would you waste time gathering resources to tank? i know how to kite DF if i pick webber do u really think i'll waste my time picking almost 20 spiders making 5 log armors, 5 helmets to sit there and press F? even begginers would not do that because they are begginers they don't know they can do that or will screw up the battle good players would not do that because they can use their time way better that's why if you want to rush bosses just pick wolfgang and you  can do a lot of damage even with a simple axe.

Spiders right now are not invencible unless you have literraly more than 30 pick some boss with good loot like Bee Queen try to just let your spiders tank her without interaction when she start to screaming all spiders will loose agroo and she will give up so you need to be there to coordenate the spiders but lets try to recreate this scenario with easy bosses like deerclops, he can easily freeze spiders and kill them it's way more easier to kite deerclops than gathering an arm of spiders you can even tanking him by making two campfires and standing on the middle of them. Bearger can kill all the spiders easily unless you have thousands of spiders with diferent healing times to make sure everytime he attacks one spider is healing but beside that most of the players don't fight bearger because he's usefull to gather wood and he's way easier to kite than deerclops the unique boss is easy to kill with spiders is moose but his loot it's completely trash beside thoose bosses most of the player base don't even bother to beat them i killed dark toadstool with woodie chopping tree faster was good but what really helped me in the battle was preparing the flingos to freeze him from time to time would be zero diference if i was playing willow for example  in this game preparation is the secret to make life easier if you're smart to pick 30 spiders to try to kill one boss you would be smart to trap dragonfly lavae, flingo for toadstool, bees for crab king and playing safe and avoid killing klaus deers to make fight easier(he's only hard when you kill the deers in normal he's easy as hell). 

My finnal opinion on webber is that nurses are okay and there's a lot of things could change in this game like some characters powers which are preety useless or usefull one time and that's it.

Cheers. 

 

[Copyafriend]

18 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

You're exaggerating the actual scope of the Spiders utility at large in them pubs (personal and community/dedicated servers, bulk player-base). Fact of matter at end of day: using spiders is still too gimmicky and costly to make it a good, optimal alternative when Wendy, Wigfrid and Wolfgang exist. Likewise the actual good, versatile spiders combo remains Warriors-and/or-Spitters+Nurses, rest being "inferior products", totally negligible. Now - 10 days after Webber's rework went live - with his novelty pretty much still present, he is already 2nd place in general server pickings, after Wendy, Wigfrid gaining dizzying ground. From what I've seen in pubs as tendencies go, SpiderBoy will once more be permanently outrun by Wig, Wilson, and Woodie in the next week, plus the "Holy Trio" afterwards. Contrary to what you want to paint as picture, no, he is not a good tanker in hands of bulk player-base/at large. Needing "12 Football Helmets" for Klaus is one of the worst strats in advanced players' repertoires, and for casuals it only spells certain death/failure (again: look in that video how many times said streamer ran with <40-50 hp for his proverbial life). Managing spiders outside fights is a choir, during fights they go all over place, and one has a mere 0.33s window to prevent them from eating all meat/Deer Eye/Guardian Horn/etc. Bottom line: Webber doesn't do anything better than other characters on same niche, au contraire (see Wendy, Wigfrid, Wolfgang, Woodie Weremoose), only adds complications in the mix for the "lol, look many spiders" meme. What he got is contextual jugglery with a bit more control over his spiders - nothing to tell home about. But from here to "overpowered"...long road.

Give me a second to break this into managable chunks

Spiders are too expensive gimmicky and weak for public or private

**** i didnt realize using 10 spiders permanently for all combat purposes at the coat of about 5 morsels was weak, I apologize sir, i’ll put away my effectively free permanent dps boost away 

also: breaking news, new thing no longer new, interest drops? 
last time i played in pubs most people played wigfrid and abigail not because they were the strongest, but because they needed the least effort to carry them through. Wolfgang will beat either one and webber on optimum runs every time but i dont think he’s really op.

why not? Wolfgang needs to constantly consume resources to keep up, but if you’re playing optimally you have plenty. 
 

BIG point here: very few people play optimally. 
 

Dst isnt a speedrunning game, nor is it a base building game, its a survival game, so when considering balance, we need to ask; what is overpowered in context of survival:

well combat is pretty core to dst, so is resource gathering. so anything that makes combat too easy id call overpowered, wolfgang still has to gather stuff to heal himself and keep himself fed, but he still has to kill everything himself, though he is VERY good at it. wendy has to gather stuff for two, if abigail goes down shes a wet noodle. If we could dodge everything then we probably wouldn’t bother with the game anymore so lets assume we’re all fairly good, but not perfect players. 

now we need to assess downsides, because with good game design, if a character is really good at something, they typically arent very good at something else 

wolfgang: highest single target dps, movement speed boost

downside: requires food constantly or his dps drops.

cant do anything that two wilsons couldn’t accomplish 

Wigfrid: fairly high single target dps, has a damage reduction, extending yhe duration of armor and reducing need for healing, heals when killing enemies (depending on health, you’re not going to get much from dragonfly) plus some songs, the only one i’m really going to mention for berevity is the one that adds some healing on attack .5 per hit so about 1-1.25 health for wigfrid and double for non-wigfrid players. A pretty strong support that also does decent damage and can provide more expensive but available equipment, invaluable for a multi-person boss rush and multitalented, but lets be real most bosses cant stand up to two wilsons,

downside: can only eat meat (i’m sure you know that the best recipes are meat anyway)

wortox: virtually free healing with a limit of 400 held, approx 10 pierogis

downside: effectively double hunger drain, and healing foods are half as effective, actually losing effectiveness over wilson at 800 health.
 

i think thats i- ah **** who let the mary sue in.

webber: 

upside: extremely cheap permanent armies with the only upper limit on their numbers being how many can attack at once and processing power.

one unit of the army specializes in healing, able to heal the entire swarm by 150, with just a few of them able to completely negate any damage incapable of killing the swarm between casts.

One warrior (the worst for dps aside from nurse) spider has an attack period of 5 seconds (i just averaged its lunge and normal bite rate, sue me for being lazy) and does 20 damage for a total dps of 4 per second each. Ignoring any incidental normal spiders boosting dps 10 warriors would effectively amount to 40 extra dps, or with a hambat 120-140 dps (characters dont have a consistent dps so i guestimated, sue me) by about 20-30% damage by just separating out some spider warriors dang thats pretty average. Except no one said he had to only have 10 warriors. 20 is pretty dang feasible if i want it, but for the argument we’re going to have the super easy to achieve 15 for a nice even 60 extra dps (ignoring nurses) now spiders dont scale perfectly, and they can be panicked by some bosses, but for general combat webber has better dps than wigfrid or wendy already.k

Cost assessment

with a small investment of 2 traps (to force a den to spawn more warriors than it can hold)  and about 8-9 of any kind of meat to tame. We’re going to keep a running tally of the total resources used, it’ll be important because today i’m writing an essay. 

for most bosses, id say 400 health is pretty fair, we’ll cut it in half for wolfgang because his fight didnt last as long, but for everyone else i dont care enough to pick hairs.

we’ll use pierogi for the example because they seem to be a favorite for this efficient play i hear so much about, i’ll also ignore supporters taking hits for characters, and healing

so far wolfgang has spent 10 meat, and 10 veggies everyone else has spent 20 meat and 20 veggies (one meat is for egg

wolfgang will probably want some meatballs to either fill his stomach before the fight, or to replenish full strength if its been going on for longer than what a deerclops fight lasts.

we’ll be generous and say 3 meatballs are needed, or one meaty stew if you just wanna fill up and relu on the pierogis for health, either way 3 meat are added, and we’ll ignore the filler because it could be the effectivey free ice. 

Total tally: armor weapons, 13 meat 10 veggies wolfgang, 20 meat 20 veggies others

healing for webber: we’ll ignore that we can use pierogis too for this experiment, and imagine that spiders will never take a hit for us.

lets say we will use 10 nurse spiders. For webber that means 20 honey 20 meat and 20 silk, and the switcherdoodle will tame the spider tol.

we’ll just ignore the honey and the veggies from the other characters from now on, because its really easy to get either. So webbers total cost for 15 warriors and 10 nurses is 29 meat and 20 silk and the cost for the fighter characters is 20 meat. Webber spends a grand total of 9 meat and 20 silk more than the average character for healing. Thats not cheaper, but its not really much more expensive either. Especially when yoy consider you are webber, and gathering silk is super easy

here’s the kicker, heres what kinda makes him insane, that investment, sets him up for every single aboveground fight up to the very hardest fights, that includes repeat fights and farming, so if i wanna kill bee queen four times with the same setup its very feasible, but i might lose one or two spiders, but i can replace a few at a time for very cheap, or i could always automate the process of creating nurses by putting two tier 3 dens in a cage of statues and haunting them both to create two spider queens (two because they wont plant if close together) the only time that I wouldn’t advocate bringing your army is if its a blender of a boss, or has multiple repeat aoe hits. For instance, after a few swipes bearger will stomp then immediately swipe again, thats bound to kill spiders, the celestial champion is another obvious option. But of course you can always just fight them like you’re wilson, because unlike with wendy webber is perfectly capable without his spiders trivializing non-boss content, and making boss fights much easier. Oh yeah and thats only assuming you need 400 health for a boss fight as the needs go up the costs go up for other characters but it stays the same for webber, unless there’s something that outdamages the healing and you’re also extremely incompetent you’re gonna be able to fight until you run out of either pig skin or grass or your hambat spoils. The point of thr tanking videos are not to show tanking as a viable option its to show how extreme the healing webber cam get is. He can even tank klaus with such little investment healing wise, and you can always have a jellybean going at the same time if you’re worried its not QUITE enough. 

so he does more damage than wigfrid while healing repeatedly with little investment like wortox and having something fight for you making non-boss fights super easy like wendy (but better because you dont need to heal spiders in tougher fights)

damn its almost like he can do every job almost as good as the very best in each category. The only thing thats really got him beat is scaling damage with character swaps and volt goat jelly. I mean he can use it, it just doesnt scale as wellbut i cant feasibly imagine any situation when you’d NEED the full 6x unless you’re fighting misery, in which case you have my full reccomendation to char switch for it. But when the character can do everything about as good as any other character with only a one time investment of really not that much. If you wanna go bigger you can but i was giving pretty conservative estimates of everything, i didnt even include any damage inflicted by the nurses, do i really need to keep going? I mean i didnt even get into the fact that warriors actually habe the worst dps, and talk about bringing some spitters from the caves, speaking of which your army now refriends you when you pop back out of the caves, and theres nothing that a bunch of normal spiders cant handle in the caves. Except toadstool, i’m ngl nothing webber can do will help against him.

[Captain_Rage]

10 minutes ago, Lord Cafe said:

I don't understand you're saying from the beggining webber now is a easy tank with no effort and brain dead players can tank even Klaus but now you're saying that a good player can kite and that's true but if you can kite why would you waste time gathering resources to tank? i know how to kite DF if i pick webber do u really think i'll waste my time picking almost 20 spiders making 5 log armors, 5 helmets to sit there and press F? even begginers would not do that because they are begginers they don't know they can do that or will screw up the battle good players would not do that because they can use their time way better that's why if you want to rush bosses just pick wolfgang and you  can do a lot of damage even with a simple axe.

Because having an automated horde of healers that grants you infinite upkeep undermines fundamental aspects of the game. There is no sense of danger or danger to speak of. If you can go afk in a boss fight that is supposed to be unforgiving and come back 5 minutes later without having died something is wrong.