How constructible AETN could work

[ZombieDupe]

AETNs can be deconstructed but not constructed. They take up a lot more space, but are easier to use than AQ/ST setup, so if they were as easy to use right now you you could build them everywhere and heat could become a non-issue. One way this could be changed is making them require harder materials to build (like plastic, glass, insulation), emit radiation and may be even take some enriched uranium or neutronium in addition to hydrogen to power. This could be a good constructible alternative to AQ/ST setup without breaking balance in the game.

EDIT: wrong section, meant to post this under suggestions.

[Hokaeru]

Perhaps this could work with the deconstruction skill, when you deconstruct something you learn a new blueprint to recreate it, so we can also decorate our bases with gravitas furniture and so on 

[pether]

On 6/20/2021 at 9:56 AM, ZombieDupe said:

emit radiation and may be even take some enriched uranium or neutronium in addition to hydrogen to power.

that would greatly change AETN balance for cases when you don't build them yourself. I believe this isn't the best option.

3 hours ago, Hokaeru said:

Perhaps this could work with the deconstruction skill, when you deconstruct something you learn a new blueprint to recreate it, so we can also decorate our bases with gravitas furniture and so on 

Yeah, I would love to learn how to build POI items, all those decorative items would look great in my base!

Another option is that AETN (and maybe also Neural Vacillator and Warp Conduits) could drop some unique resources on deconstruct, like AETN Core, or sth. Rebuilding them would require that resource, so player couldn't make too many of them - just move existing ones somewhere else.

Not sure what solution is better  One feels more balanced, the other - way cooler

[gabberworld]

this is doable with mod but i would prefer this at inside game

[Gurgel]

5 hours ago, Hokaeru said:

Perhaps this could work with the deconstruction skill, when you deconstruct something you learn a new blueprint to recreate it, so we can also decorate our bases with gravitas furniture and so on 

Yessss! Then we could finally give the dupes desk-jobs and kill that pesky efficiency of theirs and, bonus!, make them miserable all the time!

[nyonyonyo]

On 6/22/2021 at 11:15 PM, gabberworld said:

this is doable with mod but i would prefer this at inside game

Yes. But the Harmony merger base rendered it unusable. I tried to compile recompile from the version on github and using the template changes to Harmony 2 but developed a serious headache trying to do it as a result of lack of knowledge base.

Can someone assist to recompile it? @trevicethe maintainer hasn't been seen since ages.

[gabberworld]

46 minutes ago, nyonyonyo said:

Yes. But the Harmony merger base rendered it unusable. I tried to compile recompile from the version on github and using the template changes to Harmony 2 but developed a serious headache trying to do it as a result of lack of knowledge base.

Can someone assist to recompile it? @trevicethe maintainer hasn't been seen since ages.

are you over-code this? because Aetn is one off simplest mod

[Cairath]

1 hour ago, nyonyonyo said:

do it as a result of lack of knowledge base.

There literally is a thread by Ipsquiggle on how to do the upgrade step by step... there is a community guide and there's a discord with modders in it. Don't blame it on the lack of knowledge base, that one is on you.

[gabberworld]

anyway if you not know how todo then mod is here 

BuildableAETN.zip

[babba]

On 6/20/2021 at 9:56 AM, ZombieDupe said:

AETNs can be deconstructed but not constructed. They take up a lot more space, but are easier to use than AQ/ST setup, so if they were as easy to use right now you you could build them everywhere and heat could become a non-issue. One way this could be changed is making them require harder materials to build (like plastic, glass, insulation), emit radiation and may be even take some enriched uranium or neutronium in addition to hydrogen to power. This could be a good constructible alternative to AQ/ST setup without breaking balance in the game.

EDIT: wrong section, meant to post this under suggestions.

I always dreamt of being able to build AETN`s in the game - Klei could make them require special resources for construction or tie the AETN in to some kind of new game mechanic to keep them running. Maybe running too many of them in a colony could overload the Galaxies magnometer-radon-burger-volume and trigger earthquake tremors which can damage colony buildings.

Increasing the "Galaxy magnometer-radon-burger volume capacity" requires operating the "humbug device", in player constructed space stations.

[Coolthulhu]

On 6/20/2021 at 9:56 AM, ZombieDupe said:

AETNs can be deconstructed but not constructed. They take up a lot more space, but are easier to use than AQ/ST setup, so if they were as easy to use right now you you could build them everywhere and heat could become a non-issue. One way this could be changed is making them require harder materials to build (like plastic, glass, insulation), emit radiation and may be even take some enriched uranium or neutronium in addition to hydrogen to power. This could be a good constructible alternative to AQ/ST setup without breaking balance in the game.

Glass and plastic are cheap by the time you get insulation. Out of all the "nerfs" you listed, only insulation and uranium sound like they could be actual limitations.

Giving them radiation would make them radiation sources, it wouldn't make them even the tiniest bit less effective at heat deletion. It could easily make them just big wheezeworts: something that cools, but is actually used more for the radiation.

Instead of complex side effects, they could just consume so much hydrogen that they're barely more efficient than AQ/ST with water coolant. They wouldn't beat AQ/ST with super coolant, since it produces more power than it uses up, but would be more convenient.

[Hokaeru]

You could build them from the neutronium you would get on the artifacts  

[blakemw]

2 hours ago, Coolthulhu said:

Instead of complex side effects, they could just consume so much hydrogen that they're barely more efficient than AQ/ST with water coolant. They wouldn't beat AQ/ST with super coolant, since it produces more power than it uses up, but would be more convenient.

Fun fact: Hydrogen Generator + AQ/ST using water coolant is almost exactly the same efficiency as AETN, that is the same amount of hydrogen gas turns into almost the same amount of net heat deletion. The difference is that AQ/ST can only cool to around -6 C on polluted water coolant, whereas an AETN can condense Sour Gas at exactly the same efficiency, an AQ can be used to condense Sour Gas using Methane coolant (a tricky build) but does so at less than half the efficiency of an AETN.

But for "room temperature" cooling and mild refrigeration the AQ/ST is already highly energy efficient and for the amount of cooling delivered is much more space-efficient than an AETN as it delivers around 9x the cooling for around twice the space.

[nyonyonyo]

5 hours ago, gabberworld said:

anyway if you not know how todo then mod is here 

BuildableAETN.zip 5.16 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks.

6 hours ago, Cairath said:

There literally is a thread by Ipsquiggle on how to do the upgrade step by step... there is a community guide and there's a discord with modders in it. Don't blame it on the lack of knowledge base, that one is on you.

Spent and afternoon reading the "how to mod guide" and the "how to harmonize 2 the mods" and kept on getting stuck.

Time to decompile this and learn.

Addendum:
--much much much later--
I forgot all the steam workshop download "*.bin"s are actually "*.zip"s and should have started decompiling and using the info from there.... At least I learnt something from all of this and now can update mods.

[blueberry pi]

What if AETN drops a cooling module and the iron its made of when deconstructed, then we use this cooling module to build another AETN, this time how a dupe would build something, this new AETN would have double the cooling power but would use 3 times the hydrogen or a similar ratio, it would be inefficient but more powerful, this limits the number of AETN in the world but it's easier than having it use different resources or have a blueprint which could be copied and copied, something similar to this idea.

[ZombieDupe]

On 7/4/2021 at 2:00 AM, blueberry pi said:

What if AETN drops a cooling module and the iron its made of when deconstructed, then we use this cooling module to build another AETN, this time how a dupe would build something, this new AETN would have double the cooling power but would use 3 times the hydrogen or a similar ratio, it would be inefficient but more powerful, this limits the number of AETN in the world but it's easier than having it use different resources or have a blueprint which could be copied and copied, something similar to this idea.

You would still need to have some blueprint or research type unlocked for the ability to construct a new AETN, otherwise this kind of module could be used for nothing unless you're thinking of putting the module somewhere and it "activating" the construction base for the new AETN, which would just be more tedious much like bottle emptier meddling to make liquid locks.

If we have modules like this it would be nice to have a component part manufacturing mechanic integrated more, similar to the power station for making microchips, but instead of some special perk these manufactured items would be used as components for construction. It makes things more complicated in an already complicated game, but it would add a new layer of gameplay which would be valuable for understanding how some of the buildings might actually work instead of just being made up of basic blocks of given materials you just dug up or filtered. Then the cooling module would be something you make out of insulation for example unless we want to limit the AETN amount. The important thing is to limit access until mid to late game for this type of building which would be the point where you could build more of them.

I agree with the idea that AETN should delete more heat but take up more hydrogen as well, this would make the building and hydrogen itself especially useful for other applications than some heat transfer and burning off for power.

[Sanchozz]

well, I was inspired by this post and comments, as well as the fact that the authors of the old cheat mods that allowed you to simply build AETN - did not make an update.

First, your duplicants-researchers should study the natural AETN, just as they study Geysers.
Then, your duplicants-builders can disassemble the AETN to get its Neutronium Cores.
Next, you need to open the Catalytics technology.
Now, you can build your own AETN using these Neutronium Cores.

For the destruction and construction of AETN, your duplicants must have the skill Construction III
Your own built AETNs don't need to be studied.
Additional Neutronium Cores can be obtained from Care Packages.
In addition, the mod adds a Logical Port to the AETN for ease of use.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2539984678

[Sasza22]

7 hours ago, Sanchozz said:

well, I was inspired by this post and comments, as well as the fact that the authors of the old cheat mods that allowed you to simply build AETN - did not make an update.

First, your duplicants-researchers should study the natural AETN, just as they study Geysers.
Then, your duplicants-builders can disassemble the AETN to get its Neutronium Cores.
Next, you need to open the Catalytics technology.
Now, you can build your own AETN using these Neutronium Cores.

For the destruction and construction of AETN, your duplicants must have the skill Construction III
Your own built AETNs don't need to be studied.
Additional Neutronium Cores can be obtained from Care Packages.
In addition, the mod adds a Logical Port to the AETN for ease of use.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2539984678

I like this idea. Since the construction III is now demolition maybe there should be a construction IV skill allowing to rebuild Gravitas stuff. Would make sense as first we can demolish the stuff and later rebuild it.

As for neutronium cores those could be artifacts from space or found in the crashed satelite and PoIs on outer planetoids.

[ZombieDupe]

I don't understand why there is so much leniency and even encouragement to making AETN an extra special building with extra special building type requirements and conditions under which you can research and construct one. It is more straight forward to have one research and construction system, why would you explicitly confuse the player with weird gimmicks that actually don't make any sense? It is very odd to me that there is a specific demolition type to gravitas buildings instead of you just being able to deconstruct them. Why is it done this way? You could argue it's because they are tied to getting resources back like plastic which could somehow break the game, but you could change the material these POI are made out of instead incredibly easy and at the end of the day it is still very little material anyway. Plastic ladders? Well now they are made of a little bit of copper ore, not that difficult of a change.

Don't get me wrong, I like the whole discovery aspect of new research data and buildings that is already out there at POIs but then it's best to rework the regular research system to fit together with this type of discovery as well. Why leave one system half baked while implementing a better one for a few other things or the other way round?