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8 minutes ago, Oxygenbreather said:

BTW: I don't want to be that bummer, but does CO2 actually protect food (in reality) indefinitely? As far I know fester bacteria doesn't need O2 to work and produces fermentation gas as byproduct.. at least many things I want to store at room temperature it's actually more dangerous to not let O2 reach it.... I know the industry uses CO2 to increase shelf life, so in some cases it must be true, but it certainly not "sterile".

IRL CO2 is used in airtight packaging mostly to displace oxygen, as even sterile foods will go stale in the presence of oxygen. This is the same way that nitrogen packaging works.

Most harmful bacterial food contamination will gladly go anaerobic, which means they don't need oxygen or any gas in order to survive. 

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I see, well I think it's good CO2 is not the one for all solution as it used to be.. 

However, on the other hand, can we please pasteurize food? I don't mean pickling which again another preservation technique.

I mean while reality food decays more easily we also have more ways to preserve (other than just cooling):

* pasteruzing
* salting
* drying
* fermenting

Comes to my mind.. 

Oh yes, and "sugaring" whatever that is called.
 

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1 hour ago, Oxygenbreather said:

However, on the other hand, can we please pasteurize food? I don't mean pickling which again another preservation technique.

Oh yes, and "sugaring" whatever that is called.
 

This is already in the game. Cooking resets staleness and removes germs. Grubfruit preserves decay much more slowly than other food.

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2 hours ago, Oxygenbreather said:

BTW: I don't want to be that bummer, but does CO2 actually protect food (in reality) indefinitely? As far I know fester bacteria doesn't need O2 to work and produces fermentation gas as byproduct.. at least many things I want to store at room temperature it's actually more dangerous to not let O2 reach it.... I know the industry uses CO2 to increase shelf life, so in some cases it must be true, but it certainly not "sterile".

There's a reason why quite a few IRL food items say to refrigerate once opened.

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9 minutes ago, Ambaire said:

There's a reason why quite a few IRL food items say to refrigerate once opened.

Yeah but that includes stuff like jam, which would take years to go off, even unrefridgerated. 

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4 hours ago, SamLogan said:

Vacuum is better than CO2 because you obtain the "Deep freeze" bonus, so you have 0% + 0%.

I'm happy that things got nerfed. Especially CO2 and the extremely silly diagonal reach.

But vacuum is still too OP. In reality you still have heat transfer through radiation in a vacuum. So it's doesn't automatically freeze. As shown it's almost trivial to build a one-tile liquid lock. Since I don't like the diagonal exploit I also used that in my kitchens for ingredient storage.

Maybe it would be nice to have very slow decay in vacuum, but for true permanent storage you need to build a literal freezer.

Edited by Steve8
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Klei, just make food turn "freeze-dried" in vacuum.

 

Long-term food storage has always been a problem because of the space limitations of the storage. That's why people come up with these exploits. Let us store "freeze-dried" food without spoilage at room temp and give us a building that will fit/function on rockets and in bases to restore it. Maybe knock off a tiny bit of of the food buff to account for "rehydrated food."

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The more important question is do we really need to store this much food? Is that a desirable gameplay meta?

On the one hand, the food storage nerf seems to imply it isn't, but on the other hand the resin tree says otherwise. Now we have both an enormous calorie sink and difficulty saving up food for it. Unless isoresin is supposed to be ridiculously gatekept like this, I think it's time to tune the resin tree way, wayyy up from the current 480,000 kcal to 1 insulated pipe ratio.

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15 hours ago, zach123b said:

vacuums still work great for food preservation

image.png.bd1a9e5ad23bf4cce1fb4b2c2ec7c6cc.png

I have to say I find it very impressive (and deeply amusing, sorry Klei) that it just took 2 hours for a solution to the new restrictions to be found. 

I expect that the automatic "deep frozen" in vacuum will probably have to go.

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12 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

I have to say I find it very impressive (and deeply amusing, sorry Klei) that it just took 2 hours for a solution to the new restrictions to be found. 

Well, it's not exactly a new solution. I've long used that because I never liked the corner exploit. It's probably been around for a long time, so it's very logical and easy to just go back to it

Edited by Steve8
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17 hours ago, Ipsquiggle said:

Since the plant mutations are going out and shaking up the food economy, we felt like now would be a good time to fix a number of longstanding issues with food preservation.

I don't actually mind the nerfs to food preservation at all, since it'd force me to think more about how I store my food rather than simplifying it to "put fridges in the CO2 pit". Though I've yet to feel a significant change in food production from plant mutations - after over 100 cycles of high-radiation farming with the farming station + grubgrubs and only allowing my farmer to harvest crops, this is what I have to show for it:

image.png.637b892864acd32afce189e6cab890d2.pngimage.png.1062e409cd4594b15f4b7ed2fdb76350.pngimage.png.19ae4d84c926c33df080b510a190fdd2.png
  

image.thumb.png.0b275e09ceb2382b73917bef66031ea8.png

It really feels like I'm going to spend half of my playthrough just waiting for enough dice rolls to get a farm of specialized crops, and even then they would only be 50% more efficient than my current ones. I feel like by that point I'm not really going to even utilize the efficiency boost, it'd just be for the fun of it. It doesn't help that mutant plants don't drop any kind of mutant seeds, either, so I have to keep using regular ones unless I want to further slow down my mutant seed discovery rate.

Edited by Electroely
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7 minutes ago, Electroely said:

after over 100 cycles of high-radiation farming with the farming station + grubgrubs and only allowing my farmer to harvest crops, this is what I have to show for it

After some testing playthroughs I did, I think thimble reed is the easiest to "evolve" in order to see mutations in action. You have more harvests in the same amount of cycles compared to any other plant (farming station + grubgrubs = harvest every cycle). If you want more mutant grubfruit seeds quicker, I think it is better to farm spindly grubfuit than grufruit just because of the quicker harvest cycle (~2 cycles), even if you lose the 50% of grubgrub rubs.

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4 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I have to say I find it very impressive (and deeply amusing, sorry Klei) that it just took 2 hours for a solution to the new restrictions to be found. 

I expect that the automatic "deep frozen" in vacuum will probably have to go.

Food in a vacuum  technically is fine.    As it should be.    In cold vacuum of space food is preserved. 

Now the method presented here has some what of a slight problem because stale food on the verve of rotting 'could' get transported and rot on the rails and end up as rot/polluted dirt  in the vacuum spot and then fill up with polluted oxygen and then bam  your food storage supply is done.   
 


I've done a vacuum infinite storage before and have gotten rotten food go to polluted dirt in the vacuum filling the space with polluted oxygen.   


Possibly a pump in that room might be needed and an arm to just clean out the polluted dirt  as a potential add-on solution to the design.

 

 

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I liked the infinite food storage w/ diagonal tile accessibility how it was, even if it was considered an exploit. I get that it isn't intended design, so be it, but I do hope there is still some way to save up infinite food even if it can't be grill-adjacent. It is even more important now to save up a thousand cycles of food to get isoresin.

If shipping everything up into a storage room in space works, that would be good enough. I'd even be fine with making a deep freeze room provided food could be dropped in. If refrigerators are the only solution I really don't like that. I'm fine keeping one fridge in the base for immediate access but there needs to be an low-energy low-heat bulk option. Hope there still is

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Help! Steam wont show that I have an update available for this, I've tried to clear the download cache for steam, check integrity of game files, restart steam, restart pc.. I want this update so bad! Anyone know why it's not showing the update? It doesn't even show that there was new news for ONI on Steam!

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19 hours ago, SamLogan said:

Sorry Klei, fridge still the worst option to store food : produce heat and energy cost. :)

 

won't the food eventually rotten in an unrefrigerated vacuum place, making it becoming rot pile, which emits polluted oxygen, which fills the vacuum and break everything?

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On 5/6/2021 at 4:12 PM, Ipsquiggle said:
  • Errand "offset" fixes
    • Fix exploit where Duplicants can pick up items diagonally through walls if standing on a raised tile
    • Duplicants can access constructions diagonally from a greater number of nearby positions

This is complete nonsense, why would picking up an item diagonally be any different than building diagonally, either it's an 'exploit' to do an action diagonally or it's not.

Edited by AncientGammoner
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3 hours ago, AncientGammoner said:

This is complete nonsense, why would picking up an item diagonally be any different than building diagonally, either it's an 'exploit' to do an action diagonally or it's not.

Notice how one says "through walls" and the other doesn't? 

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3 hours ago, Yunru said:

Notice how one says "through walls" and the other doesn't? 

You can both construct and deconstruct diagonally through walls, but you can't pick up the debris left behind after the destruction.

I haven't tested if you can insert into a fridge diagonally yet, but there's potential for using diagonal access to put food from the grill into a fridge in chlorine and accessible to dupes through some kind of water barrier.

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14 hours ago, RonEmpire said:

I've done a vacuum infinite storage before and have gotten rotten food go to polluted dirt in the vacuum filling the space with polluted oxygen.   
Possibly a pump in that room might be needed and an arm to just clean out the polluted dirt  as a potential add-on solution to the design.

Put in a sensor and an alert that stops the game. Then you have time to respond.

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18 hours ago, Electroely said:

Though I've yet to feel a significant change in food production from plant mutations - after over 100 cycles of high-radiation farming with the farming station + grubgrubs and only allowing my farmer to harvest crops, this is what I have to show for it:

I was thinking last night it would be better if you fed radbolts to the seed station and used normal seeds to induce mutations. 

Alternatively add a seed mutatater that does this to make seeds to analyse. 

Edited by Carcer_
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