My theory about Wagstaff

[MikoFanboy]

Here is some character quote about Wagstaff in DST

 

 

 

and I noticed that except for Winona and WX, the others seem to act like they haven't met him before, which is true... if Wagstaff isn't a character in the singleplayer version of Don't Starve

in DS, Wilson isn't the only one who comes and frees Maxwell, the "A New Reign Cinematic" only show he is the last one before Charlie came.

also, from the wiki it said:

"According to a Rhymes with Play livestream, "between zero and zero" people sat on the Shadow Throne before Maxwell, but that many people came after him" (remember this)

 

Ok, so because of how the other seem to not recognize Wagstaff, I decide to let Wagstaff being trap on the nightmare throne so I can examines his "puppet" on the throne to see what the character will say about him

During the test, I found out that Wagstaff will still get trapped like the other, but the next time you visit the throne, he will disappear 

---------------------------------------------
I have some theory about that and Wagstaff himself:
 

1) Wagstaff is a projection or... he becomes a projection after he enters the constant
We all know about his suspiciously flickering when his health is low
people said that we didn't really play as him but his projection.
I don't think so, his projection can interact with the environment, he can eat, can be hurt, and die in that stage. What if, he isn't controlling any projection but the projection is himself? Like Charlie become the Night monster 
 

2) Wagstaff has successfully harvested the power of the nightmare throne 
 Wagstaff quote about the throne: “I've found it! The portal that can link worlds! The throne of ultimate power!!”
"The portal that can link worlds", I belive the throne allow the person sitting on it the ability to move (or teleport) to any world they want (Like how Maxwell does in the singleplayer version and Charlie in the animation), they can just pop in and out. Hmmmmm isn't Wagstaff can do the same thing in DST?
in Don't Starve, he can't do that, to able to teleport, he has to build the Telebrella and the Telipad to teleport, in DST he just pops in and out anywhere and any time he wants.

 

3) Wagstaff has sat in the throne before Maxwell
Remember the " "between zero and zero" people sat on the Shadow Throne before Maxwell, but that many people came after him" 
Why they said " "between zero and zero" people sat on the Shadow Throne before Maxwell" instead of "nobody" 
My theory is Wagstaff is the thing "between zero and zero", at that time, he already became a projection.
With his projection body and the power of the throne, he able to escape the throne (like how Vanellope using her glitching ability in Wreck It Ralph)
This might explain why Klei made Wagstaff requires no XP to unlock and immediately available from the start

 

 

 

[Resul]

Makes sense to me

[minespatch]

Thanks for the video, seeing Wagstaff gone after trapped is terrifying. There's something unnatural about Wagstaff.

Despite Winona recognizing him, I can't help but wonder if Wagstaff's face might not be his real face.

[HowlVoid]

This is hard... The rational part of my brain is fighting with my creative side. On one hand I want to say that him interacting with the world is for gameplay purposes, I mean you don't want a "god mode character". On the other hand in the new update Wagstaff takes something from the champion, that ia to say he is interacting with the world. 

I don't think he sat on the throne before Maxwell because he seems to be discovering things for the first time. He also doesn't seem to say "Oh yeah, I made that" the way Maxwell does. The adventure mode invisibility thing could be a bug.... the throne is in an occupied state, his character model is just missing.  

I think I need a little bit more info, so I'll wait and see. 

Edit: Hmm... So him not having a puppet is intentional. I agree with mathem99 that it could mean he is just not there.

[mathem99]

Huh... interestingly enough on puppet.lua you can see that all characters are mentioned (even Wheeler, who was added the same time as Wagstaff)

Spoiler

Logically, if they created a puppet for Wheeler (at the same time that Wagstaff & Wheeler got released together) then why didn't they do the same for him? If you follow that logic then this is clearly intentional.

Personally, I just think this means that Wagstaff is a projection and can't be held captive. Not even by the Nightmare Throne.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, MikoFanboy said:

in DS, Wilson isn't the only one who comes and frees Maxwell, the "A New Reign Cinematic" only show he is the last one before Charlie came

In the comics is showed how was wilson who make free maxwell so i dont see how others can free maxwell but dont be trapped on the throne

Also i dont believe that charlie will let wagstaff touch the throne

 

[MikoFanboy]

7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

In the comics is showed how was wilson who make free maxwell so i dont see how others can free maxwell but dont be trapped on the throne

The other don't have to set Maxwell free since it is "impossible" due the fact that in the start, only wilson is available, by the time we unlock other, Wilson probably already set Maxwell free

what the other do is set wilson free

i think wilson has been free at least one due to his expression in the New Regin Cinematic. Compares to game, his expression is more chill and almost accepted at that point 

25 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Also i dont believe that charlie will let wagstaff touch the throne

She is pretty powerless against his night vision goggles :v

also if we using my theory that Wagstaff has sat on the throne before Maxwell, this mean he sat there before Charlie becomes a night monster 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

i think wilson has been free at least one due to his expression in the New Regin Cinematic. Compares to game, his expression is more chill and almost accepted at that point 

at first he is scared, after we dont know how many time he is resigned

9 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

what the other do is set wilson free

 

the others were in other realms that get connected with the celestial portal. Charlie free wilson

 

7 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

also if we using my theory that Wagstaff has sat on the throne before Maxwell, this mean he sat there before Charlie becomes a night monster

wagstaff visiting the throne before maxwell using his proyection is a good theory that fits the maxwell being the 1st king of the constant but the rest if just asuming a lot of things that contradics what klei showed us

 

 

[MikoFanboy]

6 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

just asuming a lot of things that contradics what klei showed us

I think by asuming a lot, it would make thing more interesting to disscus about, well, as long as it make sense of course XD

I mean if it is proved wrong in the future, we can alway go back and debunk it 

I just want to share my theory so we can discuss about, I don't intent to make anything here into a fact 

8 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

the others were in other realms that get connected with the celestial portal. Charlie free wilson

 

Hmmhh, now you mention it, I havening thought about how the character swap with the Celestial Portal

but anyway, They were in other realms that get connected with the celestial portal like yoy said, but that is in the future

in the past, they were doing the same thing as wilson, enter the Adventure mode.

I think Charlie doesn't have to be the only one who set wilson free, she only need to be the last one.

reasonable, right? :3

[GordoZilla]

Quote

and I noticed that except for Winona and WX, the others seem to act like they haven't met him before

Do not forget Maxwell, he also has met Wagstaff before, you can see it by the way that he says "What is he up to now", if he said "now" then it means that he saw him before, otherwise he could have just said "What is this old man up to", the way how he refered to Wagstaff as "he" also seems to imply that they have seen each other before, most probably in the constant.

[Danymaster20]

The question now is, why? I know he destroy the fabric of the radio in someway (How the fire just appear at nowhere?), he decide going into the constant by himself, is he a time traveller or a dimensional traveller? (Or both?) is he trying to teleport the constant to somewhere? Is he trying to make the shadows dissapear by taking them into the light or using them for some kind of poweful device to control the people or the future of our survivors?... is he trying to rescue or slave everyone?...

Many questions... not answers...

But he could be our main villain (Even Charlie could be erased by him) or hero if he want by making an exit

[LinknAllie]

The reason the projection doesn't show up on the throne is possibly because it can't do anything to affect the world.  So Wagstaff from wherever he's projecting it from disconnects the signal to either try again or because he was only looking for the location of the nightmare throne.  Since he seems ecstatic about just finding it.

[DrMcGillacactus]

Wagstaff is an exaggeration of Wilson.

Wilson was a failed scientist who's wanting for knowledge was strong enough that he listened to a creepy voice on the radio, even after it asked for his blood.


Wagstaff is, in a way, just like that. He too seeks more knowledge, but with one major difference between them: Wagstaff will do anything. Wagstaff is willing to do whatever it takes to gain what he is seeking, caring not a bit for how other people feel about it. If he decides that he wants to summon a deadly celestial being, then he will get the survivors to do it for him. Not because he's lazy, but because he wants to do other things along side it. For him, any time not learning is wasted.
He remains my favorite character.

[minespatch]

2 minutes ago, DrMcGillacactus said:

Wagstaff is an exaggeration of Wilson.

A antithesis/foil.

[maciu67]

3 hours ago, GordoZilla said:

Do not forget Maxwell, he also has met Wagstaff before, you can see it by the way that he says "What is he up to now", if he said "now" then it means that he saw him before, otherwise he could have just said "What is this old man up to", the way how he refered to Wagstaff as "he" also seems to imply that they have seen each other before, most probably in the constant.

And also according to the Maxwell's quote about lunar siphonator he knows what Wagstaff is planning.

[minespatch]

6 minutes ago, maciu67 said:

And also according to the Maxwell's quote about lunar siphonator he knows what Wagstaff is planning.

I get the feeling both Maxwell and Wortox are hiding a lot of things from the players.

[Chronu_Caesar]

If he turns out to be a villain I'll be siding with him, I swear 

[cybers2001]

In Winona's origin video, someone activated and walked through a portal before Winona entered the room, and Charlie appears shortly after to pull Winona in as well. There's a lot of theory behind Winona's video. One theory is that Wagstaff is the owner of the factory Winona works at, and was the one who walked through it before her. This would explain why Winona recognizes him. Though if this is true, then Wagstaff must have entered the Constant at least after Maxwell took the throne.

[Penguinbowler]

i'll be honest, Webber's quote is what has me most interested. While he does seperate himself from the spider in some quotes, i don't think we've ever had em flat out disagree on something like whether to help Wagstaff. Combined with how Maxwell and WX don't seem happy to see him, I don't think the constant will be very happy with whatever he's planning.

[Echsrick]

i read some things and am i the only one that noticed that wilson and wagstaff have very simmilar hair? like look at this

not only that even the head shape and even eyebrowns look similar like are the 2 related in some way? i mean both are in someway scince in a way and alsol both of them are playable at the beggining of the game like those 2 may not know each other but for sure have many things in common then you may think

[W0l0l0]

1 hour ago, Dr.Medic said:

i read some things and am i the only one that noticed that wilson and wagstaff have very simmilar hair? like look at this

not only that even the head shape and even eyebrowns look similar like are the 2 related in some way? i mean both are in someway scince in a way and alsol both of them are playable at the beggining of the game like those 2 may not know each other but for sure have many things in common then you may think

Ohmagowd imagine if Wagstaff is Wilson from the future or something crazy like that Ooooooh! 

Spoiler

As stupid as I initially thought this was, it would explain Wagstaff not entering the constant, and how he knows so much. But aside from all the other reasons this is nonsense Wilson wouldn't become Wagstaff after seeing what They and the nightmares were capable of.

 

[minespatch]

Old man Wilson : IT's Timey Wimey stoof

[a bin of cake]

On 4/21/2021 at 7:28 AM, cybers2001 said:

There's a lot of theory behind Winona's video. One theory is that Wagstaff is the owner of the factory Winona works at, and was the one who walked through it before her.

Waitwaitwait, isn't most of this pretty much confirmed though?

We know that factory that Winona was in was the Voxola Radio factory, owned by Robert Wagstaff. We know that the factory burned down and that that was the day that Wagstaff went missing.

On 4/21/2021 at 7:28 AM, cybers2001 said:

This would explain why Winona recognizes him. Though if this is true, then Wagstaff must have entered the Constant at least after Maxwell took the throne.

By saying "if this is true," is the "this" referring to the idea that Wagstaff held the throne before Maxwell did? If so, well... Wagstaff and Winona were pulled in over a decade after the events of Maxwell's final act.

However... if Wagstaff's inventions had been aiding Maxwell's kidnappings of random individuals basically since the beginning (Wigfrid's short, implied to have occurred very soon after the earthquake/final act transpired by the headline on the newspaper she's reading at the beginning of the short; and Wigfrid has a gramaphone...), I've been wondering how.

Did the two ever meet up before he ever became king of the constant and Maxwell confided in Wagstaff about the contents and possibilities of the Codex Umbra? Maybe Wagstaff did some research and experimentation too, and figured out how to connect or imbue the Codex Umbra's powers into his inventions and thus linking the two worlds...? 

Either way, I don't really think Wagstaff was King of the Constant before Maxwell was; I think that, at least, he may have started his journey of seeking for knowledge of the book's powers prior, though.

EDIT: OH WAIT LOL, I MISREAD THAT. Sorry cybers, I thought you wrote "at least before Maxwell took the throne" and got confused. Anyway, my curiosity and speculations still stand.

[Penguinbowler]

12 hours ago, fierysage1 said:

By saying "if this is true," is the "this" referring to the idea that Wagstaff held the throne before Maxwell did? If so, well... Wagstaff and Winona were pulled in over a decade after the events of Maxwell's final act.

Time is weird in the Constant, Wendy was born sometime either in or before 1904, yet is confirmed to be somewhere between 8 and 10 years old, meaning at the latest she disappeared 5 years (1914) before Winona (1919), who disappeared before Wilson, but arrived after him.

[ModsterMash]

When it comes to time shenanigans in the lore, I always refer to this quote from writer Kris in the dev stream for Winona's refresh: "Winona was sucked into The Constant several years later. So, it's actually been quite a bit of time since Charlie's gone missing, but also time is weird in The Constant. Being brought through the portal doesn't mean you're going to come in at the same time that somebody else did, necessarily."