Make Wes More Useful

[Tender_Loim]

I know Wes is supposed to be the challenge character for more experienced players, but this is a Heavily Co-Op game and having dead weight on your team is just no fun. So I'd eventually like to see Wes reworked to be more useful to a team setting, he should still be a challenge to play of course, but make him a glass cannon of sorts, high risk high reward. Maybe give him something to do with distracting and something like ranged attacks like in the Forge Event. You could have the balloons draw aggro a lot better than they do right now, And perhaps give him a valuable perk that might balance out his downsides. I don't have too many ideas, but Klei are good people and have good ideas a lot of the time, so I'd like to see what they come up with.

[Mike23Ua]

I keep saying this, no one seems to be listening but I’m gonna say it again anyway- Character downsides seem to be becoming less and less difficult to deal with, Wendy’s hits weaker than average downside is Non-Existent as long as she has Abigails petal buff, Willows downsides of Going insane when cold now include having a Teddy Bear that can be cuddled to provide Warmth and will Enlarge to protect her from Shadows, Woodies Downside of Chopping too much Wood with Lucy Triggering his Curse is now completely Obliterated from the franchise- And he can now control his curse with totems, Wormwoods downside of not being able to heal by eating foods has now become significantly easier to deal with now that he can heal by picking up loose rot left laying around everywhere, And even Wigfrids Downside of only eating meat has become significantly less difficult to manage thanks to the introduction of new meat sources and being able to use Batilisks wings in crockpot dishes. RWYS also helps a Wurt players downside of being strictly vegetarian.

It is these huge changes that lessen or even completely remove downsides that makes me firmly believe that Wolfgang’s Puny form may get the Axe and you’ll only have Regular Wolf & Mighty Wolf, And then there’s WES....

Wes has to be made useful at some point- look at the changes I just mentioned above, they can’t make everyone else’s Downsides almost even completely disappear and just leave Wes as he is..

So if you skipped to the TL:DR- If previous Reworks are any indication of what to expect, expect to see more downsides going the way of Warbucks.. & Wes to actually become useful.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It is these huge changes that lessen or even completely remove downsides that makes me firmly believe that Wolfgang’s Puny form may get the Axe and you’ll only have Regular Wolf & Mighty Wolf, And then there’s WES....

i hope it will never happen

[thegreatJash]

nah. hes supposed to not be useful.

[gaymime]

dude, a character is only dead-weight is the player is dead-weight >_____>; just because wes does not have a  BONUS doesn't mean he is bad(especially since he can basically survive on seeds and flower garlands for three quarters of the year).

 

of course i'd wager a lot of the people complaining about wes dont play him or play with people who play him and are instead just looking at wiki and the forums for all of their information.

[Cheggf]

The dead weight is the player, not the character. I've seen Weses (Wesses? Wesi?) solo bosses then do the entire base by themselves, that's certainly not dead weight. But who is dead weight is the vast majority of Wilsons, Webbers, WXs... You know what, just every single character.

I really don't see how some noob picking Wes when they shouldn't and dying is super bad and Klei needs to plsfix, but some noob picking Maxwell, Wormwood, or Warly when they shouldn't and dying is muy bien super very good.

[Sinister_Fang]

If Wes is to ever get some benefical perks, they should only benefit other players and never himself. This way he can be "useful" while also retaining his core concept of being a "hardmode" character. 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

13 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

If Wes is to ever get some benefical perks, they should only benefit other players and never himself. This way he can be "useful" while also retaining his core concept of being a "hardmode" character. 

for that i think the suggestion that many users did about he getting more aggro is perfect for him

[W0l0l0]

This is gonna be a bit controversial, so if you disagree with me I can understand that it's subjective, (and I haven't played much Wes!), but I don't think that Wes even provides a decent challenge experience. He doesn't really make the game harder in an interesting way, like playing Warly might, or what uncompromising mods give, eat your veggies ect. His downsides are just value changes and silence. He plays exactly the same as Wilson but requiring more resources.

I'd love it if he gave an interesting challenge outside of additional grind requirements, if we absolutely have to stick with the "bad character" style we’ve all come to love or hate.

I wouldn't necessarily change Wes to make him less difficult, I'd change him to make him less boring, and if he can have something back that is even only slightly useful in very specific circumstances, I for one wouldn't be too upset about it. 

[Grim the]

No.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

5 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

This is gonna be a bit controversial, so if you disagree with me I can understand that it's subjective, (and I haven't played much Wes!), but I don't think that Wes even provides a decent challenge experience. He doesn't really make the game harder in an interesting way, like playing Warly might, or what uncompromising mods give, eat your veggies ect. His downsides are just value changes and silence. He plays exactly the same as Wilson but requiring more resources.

I'd love it if he gave an interesting challenge outside of additional grind requirements, if we absolutely have to stick with the "bad character" style we’ve all come to love or hate.

I wouldn't necessarily change Wes to make him less difficult, I'd change him to make him less boring, and if he can have something back that is even only slightly useful in very specific circumstances, I for one wouldn't be too upset about it. 

im with you except for one scenario: fighting mutiple enemies. Having less damage makes you more weak agaisnt monekys, shadows, spiderqueens and hounds with the possibility, depending of the player experience/skill, can make an easy situation with wolfg or wigfrid, a mess with his 0.75 damage

[gaymime]

26 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

for that i think the suggestion that many users did about he getting more aggro is perfect for him

i've not been keen on a majority of the suggestions but i do have a soft spot for this particular one. as regular aggro-bait it would be nice if i could spend less time trying to get mobs to attack me (and no i am not joking, i do actually play bait often with fighting players). even so though i'd rather get nothing at all than something that would make wes less....wes

[Hornete]

48 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

This is gonna be a bit controversial, so if you disagree with me I can understand that it's subjective, (and I haven't played much Wes!), but I don't think that Wes even provides a decent challenge experience. He doesn't really make the game harder in an interesting way, like playing Warly might, or what uncompromising mods give, eat your veggies ect. His downsides are just value changes and silence. He plays exactly the same as Wilson but requiring more resources

That's definetly true. Wormwood and Warly are better "challenge" characters than Wes is.

I think for a rework I would focus on making him a true challenge character in a fun and not annoying way. difficult for the player playing them, but able to provide things fro the rest of the server.

 

How to do all of those things? I'm not sure, and it might not even be possible, perhaps the idea of him being a challenge character needs to be gone away with. I suppose we'll see if Klei ever gives him an actual rework.

[gaymime]

17 minutes ago, Hornete said:

That's definetly true. Wormwood and Warly are better "challenge" characters than Wes is.

I think for a rework I would focus on making him a true challenge character in a fun and not annoying way. difficult for the player playing them, but able to provide things fro the rest of the server.

 

How to do all of those things? I'm not sure, and it might not even be possible, perhaps the idea of him being a challenge character needs to be gone away with. I suppose we'll see if Klei ever gives him an actual rework.

not really. wormwood is amazingly easy to play solo and as a pair with someone else. you can go into caves and never suffer hunger, sanity or health and still bring back plenty of food and non-wood resources for whomever you play with. he has a large stomach, his hunger drain is slow, he has a stupid large health pool and he can take a hit like a champ XD he also has an easy time with farming(though to be fair if you used a plot and not the wilds he always did). to be frank i personally play him when i want an easy casual game XD

 

1 hour ago, Cheggf said:

I've seen Weses (Wesses? Wesi?)

btw, multiple wes are called a 'muddle'

[Seero]

Just don't play wes

[Stonefruit]

I mean, like some others have said-- it's the player that makes the game, not the character. Some Wigs can be total dead-weight and most Wes-mains I've seen could leave me crying in the dirt (I am deeply afraid of Wes mains.)

But I can definitely agree with something like higher-priority aggro! It wouldn't take away from a solo challenge, but could be beneficial in a group. Other than that, though, I can't think of much that could be added to Wes without tipping the scales. Mmmmmaybeee... a mild positive sanity aura on other characters (no effect on any Wes players.) He is an entertainer after-all. I dunno.

[Mike23Ua]

I guess no ones actually understanding that no matter WHAT they give to Wes regardless of how “Challenging” or “Fun” it may be.... there will always be the group of players who feel like these new found abilities make him Easier and less challenging to play.

To provide a few examples:

if Wes could craft multiple balloons and tie them together to float short distances across gaps of land (like streams or caves) People will see that as something Useful- Even if it TOTALLY FITS a Character who crafts 500 billion balloons. He becomes “Easier”

Then if they’re like Okay let’s make every single hound in a hound wave in the entire server aggro onto Wes- It would be hard for NOOB players only... but for experienced players they will find a way to use this to their Advantage- They KNOW every single hound is headed their way.. all they gotta do is take em to their death trap.

What about being able to blow up a super weak easy destroyable rubber duck boat floatation device that pops at the slightest bump? If used with Caution.. a boats a boat- And it’s one that won’t be so costly on resources to obtain. (This ones literally made with one giant balloon)

Okay so what about the Mechanic that was on Wendy’s rework before being pulled for later use? Glass Canon- The Lower the Health the more damage they’ll do- Again... Good players will always just run around with him at dangerously low Health and will just keep health healing and health injuring items on them to manipulate this.

Conclusion: It really doesn’t matter what they do to Wes because just like everyone else he will get a rework, and we will either love it or we will hate it.. but one things for certain- no matter what they do with him one way or another he will get better (and probably even easier) to play as.

 

[obekovbuti]

Wes really does not need any rework he is the challenge character. He is meant to be hard. As a Wes main i really dont want to see Wes change in any way. To be honest Wes is the only character that i dont want getting a rework.

[pyroisshy]

I feel like a neat addition to wes would be making balloons useful to other characters with unique crafting recipes. Willow for instance, would be able to make floating lanterns by setting the balloons on fire, which could be used as a long lasting flare and provide a large but unreliable radius of light

[SnoByrd]

I don't agree that all Wes players are dead weight but I'm all for a rework for him. A challenge character shouldn't just be default, but worse. And saying that Wes is supposed to be bad kind of just admits that he's poorly designed. It's true that players can overcome Wes's downsides, but that doesn't make Wes a well-designed character.

You can give a character benefits without getting rid of the challenge aspect. Especially since uncompromising mode or altering settings to make your world more challenging nearly deletes the reason for Wes. And as others have said, there are better challenge characters.

I've used this example before, but I think it's what a perfect challenge character should be. Nurse from DBD is very difficult to learn and master and in order for her to work, you have to be really good. However, if you do master her abilities, she's insanely powerful. If you're going to make a character for pros, they should reward them for their knowledge and skill. Not just Wilson with balloons and a black hole for a stomach.

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, SnoByrd said:

And saying that Wes is supposed to be bad kind of just admits that he's poorly designed.

what

8 hours ago, SnoByrd said:

You can give a character benefits without getting rid of the challenge aspect. Especially since uncompromising mode or altering settings to make your world more challenging nearly deletes the reason for Wes.

All the various mods that change Wes nearly delete the reason to rework Wes, then.

8 hours ago, SnoByrd said:

I've used this example before, but I think it's what a perfect challenge character should be. Nurse from DBD

She's not a challenge character. She is the exact opposite of a challenge character.

[gaymime]

9 hours ago, SnoByrd said:

snip

why do people keep confusing "challenging" with "more complicated to play". a challenge isnt much of a challenge if all it does it make you wait for a little bit before becoming way easier. but hey, good to know all the ps4 and xbox peeps can just have uncompromising mode turned on :/

 

actually, while i am here does "uncompromising" still have easy-mode hay fever and have ferns as a crockpot food(and a viable recipe) and an ice-staff boomerang and a veggie meatloaf that is as good as meatballs and lasts 20 days and a salt-flinging gun that also makes you move faster and an unbreakable electric bug torch and a sanity regening chiminea and goggles with 120 insulation+sanity regen+increased vision+speed boost?

[Cheggf]

38 minutes ago, gaymime said:

why do people keep confusing "challenging" with "more complicated to play". a challenge isnt much of a challenge if all it does it make you wait for a little bit before becoming way easier. but hey, good to know all the ps4 and xbox peeps can just have uncompromising mode turned on :/

I know, right? This game's already got 13 easy characters and 3 hard characters. Why can't it have just 1 single challenge character?

[SnoByrd]

2 hours ago, Cheggf said:

what

All the various mods that change Wes nearly delete the reason to rework Wes, then.

She's not a challenge character. She is the exact opposite of a challenge character.

A lot of the argument's for Wes is "He's supposed to be bad." Which translates directly into "He's badly designed on purpose." Cool. He still sucks though.

And why do modders have to be the ones responsible for improving the game?

As for Nurse, she's exactly what a character that rewards pros should be. She literally has to be better then you to win. If you don't have good game sense and can't predict your opponent, you lose. An average player playing Nurse will lose more often then not. That's why she has such a low kill rate, despite being insanely powerful.

[Cheggf]

1 minute ago, SnoByrd said:

A lot of the argument's for Wes is "He's supposed to be bad." Which translates directly into "He's badly designed on purpose."

What does this mean?

1 minute ago, SnoByrd said:

And why do modders have to be the ones responsible for improving the game?

You literally just said they should, dude. That's your reason for why Wes doesn't need to be a challenge character.

1 minute ago, SnoByrd said:

As for Nurse, she's exactly what a character that rewards pros should be.

That isn't a challenge character. If there is a reward, that is not a challenge character. The only "challenge" something in Dead By Daylight is the perk No Mither which makes you get downed in one hit and offers basically no upsides in exchange for that.

I don't know why you don't get this.