Make Wes More Useful

[Mike23Ua]

35 minutes ago, LinknAllie said:

He's meant to be a joke character.  He is poorly designed on purpose as a joke.

Oh.. well in that case, Waste of character slot! I demand Warbucks swaps places with him.

Which leaves Wes to be scrubbed from Klei’s record books (this is a Joke post obviously..) 

[LinknAllie]

28 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Oh.. well in that case, Waste of character slot! I demand Warbucks swaps places with him.

Which leaves Wes to be scrubbed from Klei’s record books (this is a Joke post obviously..) 

How about Wagstaff instead.

[kuroite]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay so you beat Dragonfly with your Hambat as Wes- Congrats.. you also ate through more food, wasted more resources & healing items, and took 45 minutes longer than any other character in the process..

As long as he hunt for his own food and work for his own resources, how is it a problem ?

[Mike23Ua]

48 minutes ago, kuroite said:

As long as he hunt for his own food and work for his own resources, how is it a problem ?

Well.. considering that Xbox does not have Klei Official or Dedicated Servers, and that a world only lasts for as long as the Host is playing & that once that host is Done playing it kicks all players out of the world- I would say that my largest counter argument is Time... Time is the Problem.

It also coincidentally happens to be why I’m not biggest of fans for the huge health pool multiplayer focused bosses, or even the default method of playing the game (it takes way to long to experience each of the seasons..) & oh dear god don’t even get me started on How slow and how boring Sea content is until you sail to a point of Interest where there’s something to actually do (Seaweeds, Cookie Cutter, RockJaw Shark etc..)

It may not be much of an Issue for PC or PlayStation players who can continue to play and build in worlds but over on Xbox an average play session (Average, not ALL) only lasts for a few hours while the host is online at its best.

Sure if your “lucky” that same host may rehost their world again the next day.. but for the most part: Time is a serious factor.

Its why I Hate DST Wes.. Wilson isn’t “As Bad” as Wes because Wes deals significantly less damage and spends more time gathering food or resources then he will actually getting something done. Seriously... just load the game up on an Xbox console and COUNT the amount of rooms with descriptions like “You can be whoever you want Just Don’t Be Wes.”

And like I said before- I had absolutely 0 problems with Wes in Single Player Dont Starve where the only person playing was and who’s gameplay I was effecting was Mine & Mine Alone..  and I could pause my worlds, returning to them later etc.. but in DST- Time people have to actually sit down and enjoy a session of playing the game is something Klei should seriously consider overhauling not just for Wes. But for the ENTIRE game as well.

Unlike Willow who gets a bad reputation for her extreme grieving potential, I would even go so far as to say that Wes is the best way of grieving even If you have no Malicious intentions while playing as him- You still could’ve picked someone else and saved the entire server TIME it took to do something.

This also happens to be why I Applaud changes like Abigails Petal damage buff, Wigfrids Weaponized Warble Scroll, and the various QoL changes to the game like lessened crafting costs for things like Rabbit Earmuffs, Marble Armor, Tail”o”three Cats, Bat-Bat, and of course the option to play with random season start times and season lengths.

It allows players to experience more of the games content in significantly less time.

Maybe not everyone’s going to agree with my opinion, but at least that’s why I feel like Wes should be considered for Reworking.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

If the player waste resources he should bring back more

Doesnt matter using wes, if you play wolfg but you dont do anything you will waste more resources than a wilson that doesnt do anything but that doesnt matter because both are wasting. A experience player, even with wes, can fed a entire server

Isnt about the character, is the player who decide what to do. Isnt that complicate to understand

There is a lot of character with perks that makes the game easier, why crying about wes. Dont pick it if you dont like him and dont prejudge what the player will do with him because maybe he will be more helpful than the player who complains 

[Azamagon]

Well, if experimenting with having Wes provide something useful in some way aside from his balloonomancy, here's an idea:

Mimeomancy

Wes is able to perform a bunch of tool-actions emptyhanded via rightclicking, at the cost of sanity. For example:

• Can chop trees etc without an Axe. Efficiency is the same as basic Axe. Costs 0,25 Sanity per chop.
• Can mine stones, Stone Fruits etc, without a Pickaxe. Efficiency is the same as basic Pickaxe. Costs 0,5 Sanity per mining.
• Can dig various plants etc without a Shovel. Efficiency is the same as basic Shovel. Costs 2 Sanity per digging.
• Can row a boat without an Oar. Efficiency is the same as basic Oar. Costs 0,25 Sanity per stroke.
• Can shave Beefalos and shave off Barnacles without a Razor. Costs 1 Sanity per shave.
• Can fish (ponds and in ocean) without any type of Fishing Rod. Efficiency for ocean fishing is the same as a Twig as float, and a Rot for bait. Costs 2 Sanity per fishcast.
• Can hammer most items (but NOT player-made structures) without a Hammer. Costs 0,5 Sanity per hammering.
• All other tools (such as Pitchfork and Hammering player constructions etc) still requires the actual tools for the job.

 

[Szczuku]

Wes is as much of a hardmode character as Wolfgang is an op character- stats change. That's it, no depth. Playing as a character like Warly, Wormwoood, Wurt or Webber already gives you more engaging gameplay than playing as Wes. However that does not mean that he fails at being a harder character, because having to make more food and use more resources ultimately forces player to cut less corners.

A Wes shouldn't be a burden to the team and a drag to the solo player. For example if Wes was given lots of decorative items (because a mime- an artist, knows how to decorate) I could consider picking Wes up for a megabasing world. And those decorative structures could act as sanity stations for non-Wes characters. Just an idea.

It'd would be nice if Wes's gameplay could have more depth but that'd require some upsides for himself and the team. And I, for one, would welcome that. Wes should be a hard and rewarding character, not hard and dull.

[Cheggf]

10 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Wes is as much of a hardmode character as Wolfgang is an op character- stats change. That's it, no depth. Playing as a character like Warly, Wormwoood, Wurt or Webber already gives you more engaging gameplay than playing as Wes. However that does not mean that he fails at being a harder character, because having to make more food and use more resources ultimately forces player to cut less corners.

A Wes shouldn't be a burden to the team and a drag to the solo player. For example if Wes was given lots of decorative items (because a mime- an artist, knows how to decorate) I could consider picking Wes up for a megabasing world. And those decorative structures could act as sanity stations for non-Wes characters. Just an idea.

It'd would be nice if Wes's gameplay could have more depth but that'd require some upsides for himself and the team. And I, for one, would welcome that. Wes should be a hard and rewarding character, not hard and dull.

Yeah man it's totally lame how Wes only adds challenge and doesn't have any strengths, so Klei should get on fixing that. It also sucks how Wigfrid is a combat character instead of a megabasing resource gatherer, so Klei should get on fixing that. She should be what I want her to be because every single character ever put into this game should be exactly what I want. Why would anyone possibly want a character different to what I want? 

[Mike23Ua]

As they stand now: I see Wilson, Wes, WX78, & Wolfgang as characters with a “Blank Slate” they really have no interesting gameplay mechanics save for Wilson’s beard- Because most their gameplay revolves around Getting Speed, Damage or Health Buffs to their stats- WX78 in my opinion should share mechanics found in Hamlet like the Iron Hulk, Aka having to find parts, charge those parts back to life, and then can use them rather than just eating gears and gaining Health Points: I Know the Thread is about WES but I’m using this as an EXAMPLE of how Klei learned new tactics and came up with new ideas for their game that wouldn’t hurt to Improve how the characters play.

Through advancements in technology, upgraded game engine, etc- Klei can do MORE then they could in the past.. proof in this is with scrapped character concept Wilton.. and how they said his concept of transformations was impossible- NOW We have Woodie who has 3 different vastly different transformations each offering unique gameplay.

My point: Things they deemed as not possible in the past has become easier to do over the years: Which now brings me back to WES, Wes was designed as a Single Player character & he has had no gameplay changes that alters him from being that single player character..

Heres how you EASILY make Wes more useful without making Wes more useful- You let him craft head garlands at a reduced cost then every other character: Say maybe 6 petals instead of 12.. you let his Garlands provide EXTRA Sanity.. and then before you think Wes gets something that benefits himself: you WALTER his butt- as In WES can’t gain Sanity from wearing clothing Items.

Like I said: Just because he’s meant to be “challenge” character doesn’t mean he can’t be made more useful.

For me the hardest challenge characters in the game are Wormwood & Warly- And until the RWYS update I really really struggled keeping my health topped off as Wormwood or having vastly different ingredients as Warly: BOTH of which have become significantly less challenging with the introduction of RWYS crops & Rot Healing.. 
 

Wes can.. & should be changed for the better: Otherwise People are still going to keep kicking him from their game sessions.

[Sluvia]

On 1/16/2021 at 6:25 PM, Cheggf said:

Here's a simple fix: if you only want people tryharding as the same 3-5ish characters, play on private servers. For every Wes that's problematic there's 40 problematic Wilsons and 80 problematic Webbers.

So him soloing Dragonfly and bringing 3 stacks of every plantable to the base is useless dead weight because his infinite durability ham bat took more swings and he ate a few extra berries?

You are speaking from a player skill perspective, not a character perspective, l dont give a floating damn what anybody can do as wes, he sucks any way you see it

[QuQuasar]

I think the way to implement Wes boosts would be to change his theme from "useless" to "butt monkey". Make is so that the Wes player suffers, and everyone else is boosted in some way by his suffering. Crafts only usable by other players that reduce his maximum health/food/sanity, sanity boosts for other players when a Wes takes damage, that sort of thing.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, QuQuasar said:

I think the way to implement Wes boosts would be to change his theme from "useless" to "butt monkey". Make is so that the Wes player suffers, and everyone else is boosted in some way by his suffering. Crafts only usable by other players that reduce his maximum health/food/sanity, sanity boosts for other players when a Wes takes damage, that sort of thing.

I dunno I kinda would like to see Wes actually become a useful viable character pick- as he stands now: He’s a Ego Status- as in Hey I’m so good at doing X,Y,X that I need to be less effective at doing X,Y,X just to prove how good I am.

Its kinda of the wrong way of looking at things, ESPECIALLY since we have things like World Gen settings and alternate game modes that allow us to customize the game to be as easy or as hard as you personally want it to be.

Wes’s entire character as it stands now: Could just as easily be turned into a alternate mode or a toggle you can check a box for yes/no for Upon selecting your Character... after joining into a world.

“bare bones toggle” Every character in the entire game has no pros, or cons, or special powers and they all share Wes Stats & Damage.

(host of world must approve bare bones as being selectable)

Meanwhile... Wes as a character can become more fleshed out, more interesting, more unique, defiantly more Fun & dare I say this but it probably wouldn’t hurt to have him be easier to pick up & play as either.

The Ego Status needs to go.... because as he stands NOW I look at him as a wasted character slot with tons of beautiful skins that only a very specific group of players are going to be able to play as.

Now For PC players this isn’t much of a problem because you can just Mod whatever character you want into the game and if you don’t like the perks/traits Klei gives their cast of official characters you can always change em with mods.

But for PS/XBOX we don’t have mods and therefore each character we select should offer up fun and vastly differing playstyles, my problem with Wes is his playstyle is that of my above description “I’m so good at X,Y,X I need handicaps in doing X,Y,X meanwhile he has nothing at all of any significant value to offer a TEAM

People don’t get Inspiration from being near Wes that boosts their attack speed or damage, Wes can’t craft Unicorn Balloons to bestow Wigfrid with the TRUE power of the Unicorn, he can’t create a gigantic yellow Batman Returns looking duck Balloon float that gets players out and on the sea collecting things like kelp for Wurts Tapestry without having to fully invest into a fully functional boat, He can’t blow up a stack of balloons and Mary Poppins his way over gaps of land, He doesn’t even have the gigantic wooden signs that you can be smacked around with by Pig Kings Championship pigs as his signature weapon.. 

He’s nothing more than “I’m so good at this game I need to play as an intentionally horrible character to prove how good I am.”

And is that REALLY how Klei wants Wes to remain? When they have plenty of other options to make a Bare Bones toggle, or something else to increase game difficulty.

 

[TemporarySolutn]

On 1/15/2021 at 2:30 PM, Tender_Loim said:

I know Wes is supposed to be the challenge character for more experienced players, but this is a Heavily Co-Op game and having dead weight on your team is just no fun. So I'd eventually like to see Wes reworked to be more useful to a team setting, he should still be a challenge to play of course, but make him a glass cannon of sorts, high risk high reward. Maybe give him something to do with distracting and something like ranged attacks like in the Forge Event. You could have the balloons draw aggro a lot better than they do right now, And perhaps give him a valuable perk that might balance out his downsides. I don't have too many ideas, but Klei are good people and have good ideas a lot of the time, so I'd like to see what they come up with.

No

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, Sluvia said:

You are speaking from a player skill perspective, not a character perspective, l dont give a floating damn what anybody can do as wes, he sucks any way you see it

Oh no! He needs to eat one more carrot per day! Such a terrible character!

I'm speaking from a player skill perspective instead of a character perspective because the character perspective is irrelevant. He's talking about dead weight, which Wes most certainly is not. Wes is still capable of doing everything everyone else can.

This game is literally so easy that if there were a box copy of it you could use it to squeeze lemons. Why do you care if he needs to eat one more carrot?

[ArubaroBeefalo]

"This is not a competitive game, there is no need for balancd"

"Wolfgang should keep doing up to x6 damage and wickedbottom is okey without downsides and books that are equal to command codes"

"Wendy isnt op, wigfrid is quite balanced"

"Klei can waste an stupid amount of time making a game mode to split the servers instead of keeping a character with less damage and increase hunger as downsides "

 

If in a server a wes dies or only eats it only means that this player doesnt know how to play, it will not change if he picks another

If people are okey with unbalance why balance a character that "anyways he doesnt offer a real challenge, i can survive fine with him (with half hp in black as penalty for dying multiple times)"

There is already a good number of easy choices, asking for buffs only confirms what the workshop already did with mods like backpack+armor or wendy being able to hit shadows, dst will be more casual because klei want to sell the game a game that can be survive with a hambat, a torch, armor, berries, thermal stone and an umbrella

[wigfrids hat]

8 hours ago, QuQuasar said:

I think the way to implement Wes boosts would be to change his theme from "useless" to "butt monkey". Make is so that the Wes player suffers, and everyone else is boosted in some way by his suffering. Crafts only usable by other players that reduce his maximum health/food/sanity, sanity boosts for other players when a Wes takes damage, that sort of thing.

that is just the way to encourage harassment, verbal assault and emotional abuse. anyone who'd dare play wes would have the general population aggressively trolling them for free kit and regen.

[HowlVoid]

8 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Oh no! He needs to eat one more carrot per day! Such a terrible character!

I'm speaking from a player skill perspective instead of a character perspective because the character perspective is irrelevant.

  All characters thus far have been given abilities and function very much as they would if they were to interact with the world themselves. I would argue very many video game character's abilities correlate directly to their personality arch types as well as personal experiences. Dont starve together has many story driven aspects tied to ingame progression wether they occur in the background, the past or in real time after an update, irregardless, they take the characters real reactions into consideration. What you are saying is completely false. 

8 hours ago, Cheggf said:

  He's talking about dead weight, which Wes most certainly is not. Wes is still capable of doing everything everyone else can.

  Misleading. Wes can do the bare minimum every other character can do. From a point of view of efficiency he is by far the worst character in every task and every role. At its core that is the main issue with wes where the character has been reduced to a mechanical template for artificial difficulty.

Quote

This game is literally so easy

  Not sure if intended but you seem to have contradicted yourself. If the game is so easy then what purpose does wes have other than to effectively have the illusion of difficulty. An illusion can only go as far as fooling a player for so long. Once the illusion of having conquered an other wise not very difficult game with an artificially difficult character where does that leave wes? Do you understand the minor, irrelevant and inconsequential niche Wes is meant to fill for non other than "bragging rights"?   

[Cheggf]

18 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

All characters thus far have been given abilities and function very much as they would if they were to interact with the world themselves. I would argue very many video game character's abilities correlate directly to their personality arch types as well as personal experiences. Dont starve together has many story driven aspects tied to ingame progression wether they occur in the background, the past or in real time after an update, irregardless, they take the characters real reactions into consideration. What you are saying is completely false. 

I suppose these are technically sentences.

18 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Misleading. Wes can do the bare minimum every other character can do.

What's misleading is you saying he can do the bare minimum everyone else can do. He can also do the bare maximum. The only thing he can't do is make character specific items like catapults, spices, and books.

18 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

From a point of view of efficiency he is by far the worst character in every task and every role.

No he isn't.

He's completely identical in gathering efficacy to Wilson, Willow, Wendy, uncharged WX, Wickerbottom (sans what she can grow w/books), Woodie (sans trees), Maxwell (sans trees, rocks, and ice), Wigfrid, Webber, Winona, Wortox, and Wurt (sans trees and I think rocks & ice). The only people better than him at gathering are Wickerbottom for things she grows with her books, and Woodie, Maxwell, and lategame Wurt for things you break with tools.

In exploring efficacy he's completely identical to every single character in the game except for Wolfgang, or if you still need to explore after obtaining fertilizers/red gems & Wickerbottom teammate, Wormwood and WX.

In cooking efficacy he's completely identical to everyone except maybe Warly.

In crafting efficacy he's completely identical to everyone except Winona.

In building efficacy he's completely identical to everyone.

In combat efficacy he's slightly behind everyone.

In seizure efficacy he is by far number one. In fact, he's the only character who can have a seizure.

So wow, look at that, he's slightly worse at fighting than other people. Boohoo.

18 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Not sure if intended but you seem to have contradicted yourself. If the game is so easy then what purpose does wes have other than to effectively have the illusion of difficulty.

Oh my God you are so good at forming sentences. That's all I have to say.

[HowlVoid]

10 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I suppose these are technically sentences.

I can simplify things for you if you have a hard time understanding.

10 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

What's misleading is you saying he can do the bare minimum everyone else can do. He can also do the bare maximum. The only thing he can't do is make character specific items like catapults, spices, and books.

No he isn't.

He's completely identical in gathering efficacy to Wilson, Willow, Wendy, uncharged WX, Wickerbottom (sans what she can grow w/books), Woodie (sans trees), Maxwell (sans trees, rocks, and ice), Wigfrid, Webber, Winona, Wortox, and Wurt (sans trees and I think rocks & ice). The only people better than him at gathering are Wickerbottom for things she grows with her books, and Woodie, Maxwell, and lategame Wurt for things you break with tools.

In exploring efficacy he's completely identical to every single character in the game except for Wolfgang, or if you still need to explore after obtaining fertilizers/red gems & Wickerbottom teammate, Wormwood and WX.

In cooking efficacy he's completely identical to everyone except maybe Warly.

In crafting efficacy he's completely identical to everyone except Winona.

In combat efficacy he's slightly behind everyone.

In seizure efficacy he is by far number one. In fact, he's the only character who can have a seizure.

All those examples listed.... Are the bare minimum in their respective fields... You even compared him to Wilson at one point and I am unsure if you understand Wilson's role in the game.

10 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

So wow, look at that, he's slightly worse at fighting than other people. Boohoo.

Thats... The point? He really isn't much different from everyone else so why not diversify him.

10 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Oh my God you are so good at forming sentences. That's all I have to say.

Um... Ok?

[Mike23Ua]

While there may be some small degree of legitimacy to the constant plea’s of “Nerf Wendy” There are MASSIVE degree’s of Legitimacy behind how Wes’s entire existence as it stands now is nothing more than an Ego Status.

You have to play some intentionally horrible character to prove how good you are at the game.. that should speak Volumes to people but I just don’t feel like they’re getting it...

To even UNLOCK Wes in Solo DS required you to find him by pure complete LUCK of the RNG numbers that Adventures Mode throws against you in a specific Chapter that may or may not even appear in your play through- Unlocking Wes in Solo DS was a testament to your own will power and a symbol of truly conquering EVERYTHiNG Klei could design to throw at you.

An Intentionally horrible character in a SINGLE PLAYER game is completely fine.. because the only person your Handicapping is Yourself, your not impacting say anything entire server of players... Your doing your thing in your own world and that’s 100% fine-

But the moment you put Wes into a Multiplayer game you start to see how much of a Clown he really is- now I’m not going to lie.. when I first played DST I was that jerk who joined rooms people would host AS WES just because their rooms were labeled as “Pick anyone but Wes, or Pick Wes = Ban” I WAS That Jerk..

But I was Unintentionally that jerk: My mindset then was “Pfft who the heck are you to tell me who I can and can’t play as? It’s my game I paid for it I’ll play who I want HOW I want.

It wasn’t until someone explained all the faults of why Wes is terrible that I understood why there were so many rooms that disapproved of players selecting Wes.

Then I felt like the Jerk I was Unaware I was being... because I joined as a character who is Intentionally horrible: Again EGO STATUS...

As much as people want Wendy’s Petal buff removed: If it WAS Removed she would be just as bad (if not even Worse) than Wes when it comes to how quickly she consumes through weapons due to her hits being weaker.

These are all character designs that worked FINE in Single Player... but in multiplayer- Wendy needing to waste resources to craft 35 extra spears then everyone else would just be wasting resources that could’ve went to better use.

Which is why regardless of how OP it is I defend the Petal buff AND Wigfrids Weaponized Warble..

But WES: Wes is everything I just mentioned PLUS he has nothing valuable of any sort to offer.

To summarize: All those times I got legitimate Xbox live bans from playing online because I intentionally choose Wes and joined worlds clearly labeled as DONT PICK WES- I feel like I deserved every single one of those bans..

Because rather the Wes lovers want to see my side of the story or not: I was intentionally hindering someone else’s enjoyment of the game.

THIS is why I campaign so hard to Defend Wendy’s Petal Buff, and I campaign even harder to have Wes become an actual viable character choice.

Everything was perfectly balanced in single player: they needed no changes.. but you take characters who are designed for single player and you put them into Multiplayer and well as I’m sure Klei is already aware of - Widespread game changing alterations Have to happen between them.

I don’t want Wes to become LoL’z EZ Mode.. but I do want him to actually bring something of significant Value to a MULTIPLAYER based game..

Because the way I feel about it now, Walani (being able to craft and give out surfboards at very low resource costs) or even the character whose been stricken from Klei’s Record books Warbucks.. would be far better character choices for a Multiplayer game than Wes.

Please Klei, I know at this point I sound like a broken record repeating the same things over and over and over again and maybe even seem biased towards Wendy & biased against Wes..

but hopefully this post better details why I feel that way.

And as painful as it is as Wendy Main for me to say this.. Wes could have probably been given the ability to exclusively craft the Sisturn... and he would’ve at least gained SOME degree of usefulness in a Multiplayer game.

[wigfrids hat]

3 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

Not sure if intended but you seem to have contradicted yourself. If the game is so easy then what purpose does wes have other than to effectively have the illusion of difficulty. An illusion can only go as far as fooling a player for so long. Once the illusion of having conquered an other wise not very difficult game with an artificially difficult character where does that leave wes? Do you understand the minor, irrelevant and inconsequential niche Wes is meant to fill for non other than "bragging rights"?   

dude, literally all of the game is the illusion of difficulty XD if the game was transparent then the hunger drain would either be "on" or "off" since aside from winona and wolfgang who have specials mechanics for it there is not functional difference between 100 hunger and 10 hunger. none. nadda. neit, nil.

for sure though your proposed question "Once the illusion of having conquered an other wise not very difficult game with an artificially difficult character where does that leave wes?" could literally apply to all of the characters if you amend it only to change "wes" to something else because in the end all characters are there to change the perspective of the player when looking at the game's mechanics since in the end each character is a different sort of tool with which to solve the same puzzle AND depending on the playstyle of the user the hardest character changes(i for one am never going to play maxwell who has what i consider the hardest playstyle by far in the game)

in the end any single character bar none can be used to play and 'complete' the full list of possible objectives and so the argument only becomes one of "what is a better meta" and frankly that is a rubbish convo to have if you are not in a literal competition with even one other person

[HowlVoid]

44 minutes ago, gaymime said:

dude, literally all of the game is the illusion of difficulty XD if the game was transparent then the hunger drain would either be "on" or "off" since aside from winona and wolfgang who have specials mechanics for it there is not functional difference between 100 hunger and 10 hunger. none. nadda. neit, nil.

Yup. I agree.

Quote

for sure though your proposed question "Once the illusion of having conquered an other wise not very difficult game with an artificially difficult character where does that leave wes?" could literally apply to all of the characters if you amend it only to change "wes" to something else because in the end all characters are there to change the perspective of the player when looking at the game's mechanics since in the end each character is a different sort of tool with which to solve the same puzzle AND depending on the playstyle of the user the hardest character changes(i for one am never going to play maxwell who has what i consider the hardest playstyle by far in the game)

in the end any single character bar none can be used to play and 'complete' the full list of possible objectives and so the argument only becomes one of "what is a better meta" and frankly that is a rubbish convo to have if you are not in a literal competition with even one other person

Right! What's left is what can I do in this game? That's when a characters unique perks come into play! You've summarised what Ive been trying to say perfectly. A characters unique perks can open up so many possibilities. Veggy only no crafting wormwood (I know this is easy), summoner only abigail, etc. It lets you have all kinds of unique fun with your favorite character. Wes is so bland...

Edit: Oops, we might be talking about different things...

What Im trying to say is he is limited for nonsensical reasons. When strength is not a factor give the character some personality and let him shine! 

[wigfrids hat]

1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

Yup. I agree.

Right! What's left is what can I do in this game? That's when a characters unique perks come into play! You've summarised what Ive been trying to say perfectly. A characters unique perks can open up so many possibilities. Veggy only no crafting wormwood (I know this is easy), summoner only abigail, etc. It lets you have all kinds of unique fun with your favorite character. Wes is so bland...

Edit: Oops, we might be talking about different things...

What Im trying to say is he is limited for nonsensical reasons. When strength is not a factor give the character some personality and let him shine! 

no, you and i are talking about the same thing we just hold seriously different perspectives. i enjoy not playing with the extra guff and looking at the game from many angles before proceeding and not being locked down to a gimmick that requires me being in the mood to play it. i like clean simplicity and direct fluffless access and i like when a game is hard because _i_ am not good enough not because i am unwilling to do the special thing in the way the game told me i ought to every time i am met with adversity

 

i totally get that you dont share that sentiment and you like your games to do the work for you and i respect that you want an expedited experience but i will not agree that your demands to change a character you dont play and would not play unless the char becomes something entirely different is valid. you are not affected in an real way by something like this and lose nothing if it is flubbed up but people like me who like this character and who see the value in this character and who play this game in this clean streamlined way are not keen on muddling everything up just to appease a gawking public.

it is like a vegan in a thread about the pork to beef ratio in sausages or a siblingless teen in a thread about raising toddlers on a tight budget: you can have a decent understanding of the technical aspects of the subject but you are not affected and dont understand all the bad-faith/unthought-out suggestions and demands being made by yourself and others

[QuQuasar]

12 hours ago, gaymime said:

that is just the way to encourage harassment, verbal assault and emotional abuse. anyone who'd dare play wes would have the general population aggressively trolling them for free kit and regen.

Yeah, I suppose you are correct. Even if we make any stat reductions entirely self-inflicted, players may demand that Wes outfit them by harassing them in chat. Bad.

But on the other hand, that toxicity already exists due to Wes' perceived status as a useless character who will only burden the team. Hence Wes mains getting kicked as soon as they join, players refusing to revive Wes players, "Don't pick Wes!" servers, some of the posts in this very thread (not pointing any fingers)...

With that in mind, we're back to the original concept for Wes: we need to maintain his status as a challenge character for expert players while alleviating the perception that he is The Load who contributes nothing and will eventually bring the entire server down.

So, okay, here's a few idea's that shouldn't change the game significantly for Wes players...

1. Eliminate his increased metabolism so he eats the same as anyone else while lowering his max food so it still takes him the same amount of time to starve.
2. A unique craft that negates the server-wide sanity loss from ghosts.
3. Give balloons a small sanity aura for non-Wes characters in addition to allowing them to be popped to quickly lower sanity.
4. Mime tools. Gather resources without costing tool durability.

Others have already mentioned idea's such as drawing aggro away from other players by being automatically prioritized by hostiles or having the ability to craft things that benefit others without benefiting him.

[HowlVoid]

1 hour ago, gaymime said:

no, you and i are talking about the same thing we just hold seriously different perspectives. i enjoy not playing with the extra guff and looking at the game from many angles before proceeding and not being locked down to a gimmick that requires me being in the mood to play it. i like clean simplicity and direct fluffless access and i like when a game is hard because _i_ am not good enough not because i am unwilling to do the special thing in the way the game told me i ought to every time i am met with adversity

Cant argue with what you want from the game as it is your opinion.

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i totally get that you dont share that sentiment and you like your games to do the work for you and i respect that you want an expedited experience

Not sure where I gave off the vibe I want things handed to me... I dont. Im actually a sucker for pain and enjoy games like darkest dungeon, The binding of Isaac, Master mode Terraria, etc. The initial difficulty is what attracted me to this series in the first place.

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but i will not agree that your demands to change a character you dont play

Don't you main Willow? I have played every character by now probably, for at least over a ingame year. 

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and would not play unless the char becomes something entirely different is valid.

This is true. Ideally you would want only people who play a certain character to have a voice in the changes made. Though if we did that this thread probably wouldn't be as long as it is. Im giving my two cent mostly because I want to see how far the character can be taken. Who knows, maybe, Id main the new wes (not a vaild reason, I know)? 

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you are not affected in an real way by something like this and lose nothing if it is flubbed up but people like me who like this character and who see the value in this character and who play this game in this clean streamlined way are not keen on muddling everything up just to appease a gawking public.

I am a member of this forum and as such Id like to think that my opinion still matters to some extent. The primary function of a forum is promote discussion not exclusivity. Not to shut down non like minded individuals so your assessment is very unfair.

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it is like a vegan in a thread about the pork to beef ratio in sausages or a siblingless teen in a thread about raising toddlers on a tight budget: you can have a decent understanding of the technical aspects of the subject but you are not affected and dont understand all the bad-faith/unthought-out suggestions and demands being made by yourself and others

What's ironic is that the changes DO affect me if I were to open up a public server. If those meat eater eat spoiled meat, against my previous warning, am I to be affected by their resulting diarrhea? No. That doesn't me I wont have to deal with said diarrhea smell if we are to share  a living space. 

  We are withholding Wes captive from the general public. I am willing to bet that those who do main wes would be quickly outnumbered by more casual fans should klei decide to buff him. Look at Wendy and how many new fans she gained after her rework. You might think that selfish to cater to the many at the expense of the few but from kleis perspective it may make sense. We have seen them do this multiple time too.