Abigail's petal debuff should be removed and given to Wigfrid

[ArubaroBeefalo]

39 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

Much misinformation

 

39 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

No, Abigail cannot kill Antlion without help. I've done it. Abigail still requires help in the form of potions and boosts and healing, which requires resources and preparation time, just like any other boss battle.

How can you talk about missinformation but right after talking about needing exlixirs to heal abi vs antlion? Antlion CANT hurt abigail

Hound waves arent a problem, she has a shield that counters multiple hits and aoe damage. They can only kill her if the wave spawn at day time and is huge but with so little help she can survive

Im talking 

39 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

Killing bunnies is still very tedious and slow, because we have to chase them one-at-a-time. Abigail can kill them faster than other survivors, but doing so isn't efficient or the best use of time. And digging up rabbits at night just to kill them is such a FANTASTIC waste of rabbit-dens, it's actually impressive how wasteful it is. 

??? Im talking about bunnymen

39 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

Every single character in the entire game can kill every boss back-to-back if they are given enough preparation time and know what they're doing. 

Then try to punch enemies as wes. This can be applied to your complain of being unable to fight misery without abi which also is false because 0,25 damage multiplayer isnt a big deal and abi will be only in danger of being defetead in the last phase when toad do his slam atack

 

39 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

Losing her is a major blow to my ability to fight effectively

I will answere with yout own phrase

"Every single character in the entire game can kill every boss back-to-back if they are given enough preparation time and know what they're doing"

 

39 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

Which isn't all that impressive against a single-target when Wolfgang and Wigfrid exist

It is when wendy gets more dps than wigfrid, the warrior character, and more than wolfgang with a ornery beefalo

 

39 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

Which is where the teamwork comes in; Abigail needs my help when we're single-attacking a boss. They have THOUSANDS of health. It is incredibly unrealistic to say Abigail can do it completely alone

Nobody says or want abi killing bosses alone

 

39 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

Much misinformation. 
Such wow.

You shouldnt atack when you are the one wrong but you have show how disrespectful you are in many post

[Wendy C.]

55 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 

How can you talk about missinformation but right after talking about needing exlixirs to heal abi vs antlion? Antlion CANT hurt abigail

Hound waves arent a problem, she has a shield that counters multiple hits and aoe damage. They can only kill her if the wave spawn at day time and is huge but with so little help she can survive 

??? Im talking about bunnymen

Then try to punch enemies as wes. This can be applied to your complain of being unable to fight misery without abi which also is false because 0,25 damage multiplayer isnt a big deal and abi will be only in danger of being defetead in the last phase when toad do his slam atack

"Every single character in the entire game can kill every boss back-to-back if they are given enough preparation time and know what they're doing"

It is when wendy gets more dps than wigfrid, the warrior character, and more than wolfgang with a ornery beefalo

Nobody says or want abi killing bosses alone

I am replying one more time, and then I'm finished with this. 
Yes, Antlion can hurt Abigail. He's done it. I fought Antlion not 3 days ago. 
Hound waves CAN be a problem, even in the evening. You seem to think Abigail does closer to 80 damage rather than 40. 
Buunymen can also still be difficult to fight. They do a nightmarish amount of damage, kite constantly and are quite fast. I have lost Abigail to Bunnymen many times. 
Yes, I CAN fight Misery Toadstool without Abigail, I know it's possible, but that's making a difficult situation even more difficult. There is no good reason to try it. 

The only point I had during this entire thing was that I think people mistreat and are rude to/about Abigail. That's it. 

Now please, kindly, for the love of God, stop talking about this. 

[Well-met]

4 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

 Buunymen can also still be difficult to fight. They do a nightmarish amount of damage, kite constantly and are quite fast

I'm fairly sure the main fighting perk of bunnymen is how they do not kite at all.

5 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

The only point I had during this entire thing was that I think people mistreat and are rude to/about Abigail. That's it. 

People talk about balance and gameplay so they can enjoy the challenges of a videogame better. Your roleplay and feelings toward a mob is not relevant.

6 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

Now please, kindly, for the love of God, stop talking about this. 

This is a topic about Wendy. Talking about abigail's balance is certainly on-topic.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

29 minutes ago, Wendy C. said:

I am replying one more time, and then I'm finished with this. 
Yes, Antlion can hurt Abigail. He's done it. I fought Antlion not 3 days ago. 
Hound waves CAN be a problem, even in the evening. You seem to think Abigail does closer to 80 damage rather than 40. 
Buunymen can also still be difficult to fight. They do a nightmarish amount of damage, kite constantly and are quite fast. I have lost Abigail to Bunnymen many times. 
Yes, I CAN fight Misery Toadstool without Abigail, I know it's possible, but that's making a difficult situation even more difficult. There is no good reason to try it. 

The only point I had during this entire thing was that I think people mistreat and are rude to/about Abigail. That's it. 

Now please, kindly, for the love of God, stop talking about this. 

In 2k days i never notice antlion doing any damage to abi and i only lost her 1 time for of hounds and was because was day time and i was freeze. She does 40 damage and hounds have 150 at much

Bunnymen arent difficult to fight with abi, she destroys them and they dont kite, only flee when hurt but the dont have time to go far (and a fence solve thr possible problem)

About misery, was you who said that any character can beat bosses so for that reason doesnt matter that abi is op

 

Nobody is rude at abi because she isnt real,  is a bunch of 0 and 1 making a tool in a videogane and as a tool i use her

 

Its okey that is your fav characters and that kind of things but dont come saying "miss information" when you dont know something and come with lies to justify that your favorite character isnt op when it is

[viberr]

3 hours ago, Well-met said:

calm the roleplay down a bit there

i think it makes them unique

[WesleyBruno20]

I disagree, each character has its own utility and style of gameplay. Wendy and Wigfrid work better that way.

[ZTheNecromancer]

14 minutes ago, stranger again said:

i think it makes them unique

It does and it's fine, but after a bit and in certain circumstances it becomes kinda annoying

[viberr]

4 minutes ago, ZeeDragon said:

It does and it's fine, but after a bit and in certain circumstances it becomes kinda annoying

yeah i can see where you're coming from but i generally like everybody no matter how annoying they are(nobody here is annoying tho so thats good)

anyways sorry for being off topic the thread may continue now

[Mike23Ua]

Hello this is your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man swinging in to remind everyone to please stay On-Topic, thanks!

(Everybody only gets one)

Ahem anyways- wasn’t the whole POINT of Klei adding a odds of survival to the compendium page was so that people can get a rough idea of how easy (or how hard) a character is meant to be played? Wendy is intentionally meant to be one of those easier characters to play.

And what’s more- as a Wendy Main I do not see Wendy/Abigail being as broken as you all proclaim her to be, mostly because I have seen and witnessed how Klei operates- and the TL:DR behind that is:

Just because characters are easy to play with downsides almost seemingly to completely disappear (are you forgetting that Bernie actually provides Willow with Warmth insulation now during her hugging animation?) Willows largest downside- being cold now has insulation from just cuddling her teddy bears- you guys are probably trying to hilariously compare Reworked characters to Not Yet Reworked ones-

Wes.. seriously? 

I was playing as Wormwood today after the Update and If ANYONE says Wormwood is still a challenge character with easy 4hp heals from all the rot or better yet Rotten Eggs (yes he can heal himself with rotten eggs) then you guys have simply all lost your minds- if ANYTHING the new (and amazing) Wormwood perks took him completely out of the class to even be considered as a Challenge character anymore.

But back to my point: Just as easily as Klei makes things easier (Wormwood, Willow, Wendy as my examples) they can introduce a Harder difficulty mode that gives those characters some harsher downsides.

I think what Klei is aiming to do is make the game more easily accessible to casual players (crops growing in Winter, Wormwood never having any problems healing ever again.. etc-) And then once the game becomes easier and thus ultimately more inviting to those casuals, Klei will (hopefully) add a more difficult mode for the More experienced DS regulars who are looking for that increased challenge.

Now please get back on the actual topic of the thread and discuss why Abigails damage buff which is applied as an AoE attack should be applied to Wigfrid who’s attacks are Single Target damage only.

Thank You, and have a blessed holiday season. 

[viberr]

4 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Hello this is your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man swinging in to remind everyone to please stay On-Topic, thanks!

(Everybody only gets one)

Ahem anyways- wasn’t the whole POINT of Klei adding a odds of survival to the compendium page was so that people can get a rough idea of how easy (or how hard) a character is meant to be played? Wendy is intentionally meant to be one of those easier characters to play.

And what’s more- as a Wendy Main I do not see Wendy/Abigail being as broken as you all proclaim her to be, mostly because I have seen and witnessed how Klei operates- and the TL:DR behind that is:

Just because characters are easy to play with downsides almost seemingly to completely disappear (are you forgetting that Bernie actually provides Willow with Warmth insulation now during her hugging animation?) Willows largest downside- being cold now has insulation from just cuddling her teddy bears- you guys are probably trying to hilariously compare Reworked characters to Not Yet Reworked ones-

Wes.. seriously? 

I was playing as Wormwood today after the Update and If ANYONE says Wormwood is still a challenge character with easy 4hp heals from all the rot or better yet Rotten Eggs (yes he can heal himself with rotten eggs) then you guys have simply all lost your minds- if ANYTHING the new (and amazing) Wormwood perks took him completely out of the class to even be considered as a Challenge character anymore.

But back to my point: Just as easily as Klei makes things easier (Wormwood, Willow, Wendy as my examples) they can introduce a Harder difficulty mode that gives those characters some harsher downsides.

I think what Klei is aiming to do is make the game more easily accessible to casual players (crops growing in Winter, Wormwood never having any problems healing ever again.. etc-) And then once the game becomes easier and thus ultimately more inviting to those casuals, Klei will (hopefully) add a more difficult mode for the More experienced DS regulars who are looking for that increased challenge.

Now please get back on the actual topic of the thread and discuss why Abigails damage buff which is applied as an AoE attack should be applied to Wigfrid who’s attacks are Single Target damage only.

Thank You, and have a blessed holiday season. 

heh you told everyone to stay on topic when your entire reply was also off topic

[ZTheNecromancer]

1 minute ago, stranger again said:

heh you told everyone to stay on topic when your entire reply was also off topic

That's Mike for ya.

[Mike23Ua]

I was making a point- and to be honest I am quite upset that the challenge of playing wormwood has been mostly ripped into not even existing anymore- I mean I understand why they did it, it’s just if someone bought Wormwood to play BECAUSE he was a Challenge character:

Then Klei just broke him.

Its off-topic, but it’s relevant to discuss how broken other characters may seem..

I personally don’t think Wigfrid needs Abigails petal debuf, she should’ve had a battle cry that can be activated prior to charging into battle (maybe) which activates in an Area of Effect near Wigfrid, but not a SINGLE TARGET Damage buff- it would only see any use during boss fights..:

and maybe as a secondary Wigfrid main I just want to rally my team mates up before unleashing an all out calculated assault from multiple angles on that Tallbirds nest set piece for Meat and Eggs? 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

17 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

has been mostly ripped into not even existing anymore

?

[viberr]

2 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

?

it means that wormwood isn't hard to play as anymore.

also this is really starting to get off topic but @Mike23Ua aren't you the guy who tells people to play the game the way they like?if so then just don't use rot or rotten eggs when playing wormwood its not that hard to ignore them 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 minutes ago, stranger again said:

it means that wormwood isn't hard to play as anymore.

also this is really starting to get off topic but @Mike23Ua aren't you the guy who tells people to play the game the way they like?if so then just don't use rot or rotten eggs when playing wormwood its not that hard to ignore them 

i get it but i dont get why he said it

[Mike23Ua]

Guys your missing the point, I’m using those as examples of how characters have really good perks now and little to no downsides.

every rework or game update so far (including Winona’s) has significantly lessened downsides.

Winona’s downside is to drain hunger while crafting but now she can bulk craft and ignore that downside altogether.

Woodies Downside was forced transformation for chopping too much Wood, now he can control exactly what he turns into when he wants to turn into it, and can even munch the particular idol he wants to change to prior to a full moon, to avoid a random unwanted transformation.

Wigfrids a meat eater but Klei made %chance for Batilisks to drop bat wings higher and they can now be used in crockpot dishes.

Wurts a Vegetarian but now we can grow RWYS crops to negate that.

Willow hates cold and goes insane when cold but Bernie provides warmth AND makes being insane not a problem.

Wendy hits weaker than average, but now only when she doesn’t have Abigail Petal buff to assist her 

 

There is a clear point to be made here, rather or not it is off-topic is highly debatable, but if it is I’m certain Joe or an Admin will inform me so I can remove it- though I don’t see that being likely considering the last few pages have been off topic completely without my input.

Regardless, I made my points (I think?) now please try & stay on Topic  Thanks.

[HowlVoid]

I think I might have not been all too clear with what I mean by giving wigfrid abigail's power. I was referring to the increased damage effect on other entities as having too many of them in the game could be problematic. I dont mean to literally give Wigfrid a petal debuff ability of her own. After a lot of thought I think the problem with abigail debuff is that it does not scale with numbers. Its a lot of free damage with no needed prep which in my opinion goes against the core of dst. The core that is you have to prepare in order to achieve a goal.

[ShyRo-Zyerenzy]

Wigfrid always has been in a nice spot and balanced, as much as i like both of them , Wigfrid already hits dmg thresholds for easier mobs which means less hits unlike Wendy and easier time vs sanity problems ( Abigail won't help and you kept the bad modifier ).

You can't bring beefalos to caves and you need to prepare a different style and timings with beefalo anyways so isn't free ( like using a pan flute in the middle of Dragonfly to recover beefalo hp or reset the mount timer ) Abigail only speeds it, but any character can do that style , she is more efficient only. 

In my opinion It's hard to justify a buff for Wigfrid because she is has clear upsides/downsides/concept already and the petal debuff is meant to make the sisters fight together and Abi its part of Wendy perk since they created the concept.

 If you lose Abi, you need more hits for any fight and you are rewarded for keeping her alive. Wigfrid keeps that dmg forever . She doesn't get it just for free its a playstyle.

Any character needs to prepare anyway. Abigail still dies if you don't care or help her w/potions strategy. 

[bagherthegamer]

2 hours ago, ShyRo-Zyerenzy said:

Wigfrid always has been in a nice spot and balanced, as much as i like both of them , Wigfrid already hits dmg thresholds for easier mobs which means less hits unlike Wendy and easier time vs sanity problems ( Abigail won't help and you kept the bad modifier ).

You can't bring beefalos to caves and you need to prepare a different style and timings with beefalo anyways so isn't free ( like using a pan flute in the middle of Dragonfly to recover beefalo hp or reset the mount timer ) Abigail only speeds it, but any character can do that style , she is more efficient only. 

In my opinion It's hard to justify a buff for Wigfrid because she is has clear upsides/downsides/concept already and the petal debuff is meant to make the sisters fight together and Abi its part of Wendy perk since they created the concept.

 If you lose Abi, you need more hits for any fight and you are rewarded for keeping her alive. Wigfrid keeps that dmg forever . She doesn't get it just for free its a playstyle.

Any character needs to prepare anyway. Abigail still dies if you don't care or help her w/potions strategy. 

Agreed. 

Maybe we all should stop thinking about the game and its mechanics and start thinking about how fun playing abigail is. 

Its uniqe, feels alive and her bond with abigail is kept in the playstyle. As long as its fun and welldone,its perfect. Right?

And she is not gamebreakingly op anyways. Shes just op in her field which is killing a buncha mobs. If being op in youre "thing" is a game flaw,than all the charecters are flawed. 

Wigfrids thing is to make armor and weapons, give buffs and and be a combat charecter. Her helmet are op,the buffs have infinite durability and her combat abilities are free to use right from the start. But since its her "thing" you cant say that its flawed, can you? 

[viberr]

51 minutes ago, bagherthegamer said:

Maybe we all should stop thinking about the game and its mechanics and start thinking about how fun playing abigail is. 

my positivity senses started tingling and they led me here

im a guy of positivity its something i live for and in my opinion both wigfrid and wendy are both great(so great in fact that they're my two most played characters)and they're both strong. i think personally that they both don't need any buffs and neither do they need any nerfs i like them just the way they are

[Well-met]

3 hours ago, bagherthegamer said:

Agreed. 

Maybe we all should stop thinking about the game and its mechanics and start thinking about how fun playing abigail is. 

Its uniqe, feels alive and her bond with abigail is kept in the playstyle. As long as its fun and welldone,its perfect. Right?

And she is not gamebreakingly op anyways. Shes just op in her field which is killing a buncha mobs. If being op in youre "thing" is a game flaw,than all the charecters are flawed. 

Wigfrids thing is to make armor and weapons, give buffs and and be a combat charecter. Her helmet are op,the buffs have infinite durability and her combat abilities are free to use right from the start. But since its her "thing" you cant say that its flawed, can you? 

it's okay to dislike balance talk and it's okay if it doesn't mean anything to you

but don't speak for everyone with such bold claims

[Mike23Ua]

There are some characters though still in need of a buff or a nerf, like Wes, Wolfgang & Wilson-

These guys have the most basic, most completely boring playstyles of every character in the entire game (honestly as bad as I am at playing as Warly.. even Warly is more fleshed out, unique & fun)

At the moment I consider Wes, Wolfgang and Wilson as Blank Slates- Characters that Klei can really bring some personality and uniqueness into with their Reworks.

I think the most Well done Reworks have been Wendy, Willow, and it took awhile to grow on me.. but I’ve even happily accepted Woodies.

Wigfrids rework may not have been what I was hoping for- but let’s be honest, It’s not terrible either.. She was already pretty great prior to being reworked, and the rework gave her a few pretty fun useable stagecraft scrolls.

I DEFINITELY agree with the OP that Wigfrid should have gotten her Own version of a Damage buff (dude come on.. if Warly has one from special food dishes, why doesn’t the character that’s actually meant to charge into battle?)

I think that Klei may have been afraid to balance her with this because it clashes with that aforementioned Warly, Wendy etc buff..

But I also feel like once they give the overpowered characters the proper Nerfs and balancing that they need- (Aka making Wolfgang have to do a little more then just eat food and become Superman) That it wouldn’t be AS broken as they fear it might be to give Wigfrid a Fun Battle Cry (Damage buff) 

If Wigfrid herself is the problem: Then just let the Buff effect other Non-Wigfrid players that are in the AOE of her Battle Cry.

They can even probably code it so that Abigail and Wigfrids (and Warly too) Buffs won’t stack.

But thats just my take on the entire subject- I main Wendy but I Secondary main Wigfrid.. and I think Both characters are really well done and the most fun to play

(I also really enjoy Willows & Woodies Rework too, but they aren’t my most played Characters.)

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, bagherthegamer said:

Agreed. 

Maybe we all should stop thinking about the game and its mechanics and start thinking about how fun playing abigail is. 

Its uniqe, feels alive and her bond with abigail is kept in the playstyle. As long as its fun and welldone,its perfect. Right?

And she is not gamebreakingly op anyways. Shes just op in her field which is killing a buncha mobs. If being op in youre "thing" is a game flaw,than all the charecters are flawed. 

Wigfrids thing is to make armor and weapons, give buffs and and be a combat charecter. Her helmet are op,the buffs have infinite durability and her combat abilities are free to use right from the start. But since its her "thing" you cant say that its flawed, can you? 

that is true but wouldnt hurt to have little nerf on abi damage. Is more fun if the player needs to do stuff instead of sit and watch. Also, the new wendy is so noob friendly but at the same time not because players will not learn anything about fighting hounds or spiders because they dont need to help her so they will be afraid of them for a longer time

anyways i prefer the new op abi than the old and niche one

[Mysterious box]

To be completely real at this point Wolfgang isn't really op anymore yes he can hit 2 times harder than your average player but in a majority of content wendy will end up doing more damage than him in same time frame due to both her hitting harder than the average and having a semi immortal aoe mob follower sure almost every boss will he downed faster by Wolfgang but bosses do not make up the majority of the enemies most players will encounter and some even have fast alternatives to swinging them down as for his speed Walter and Wormwood rival his speed and with some help or extra effort wx surpasses him. 

Wendy has a overwhelming combat advantage that is usable in most situations. That being said i don't think you can put abi and bernie side by side as abi is superior to bernie in most every combat situation.

Edit: forgot to mention that I'm in no way saying either wendy or Wolfgang need buffed/nerfed

[Tranoze]

You are saying wendy have better dps than wigfird, but that only when she fighting dummy that stand still and deal 0 damage. In real game situation, abi die in the first 10 secs of the fight when she fight any mob that equal or larger than treeguard without any potion. After that , with .75 damage modifiers, i believe "wes"dy will take quite a long time to take down any bosses. The .4 extra damage modifier are for wendies that know how to protect abi during the fight.

Vs smaller mobs, ofcourse that was abi design to do.