The new farming system needs more automation

[ZombieDupe]

Some say that you can use the new system to accrue tons of food. While that is true, this is through tons of maintenance and that maintenance is simply not worth it in the long run because you can just put down a bunch of berries and even more stone fruit as well as plenty cactus to not have to bother much with the farming system at all. These plants require no maintenance other than fertilisation every now and then and that is enough. The new system requires checking in every now and then at minimum and there is no alternative way to simply grow plants quickly so that the engagement with the system stays on par with plants that require no maintenance at all. There needs to be sprinklers, the fruit fly fruit could spawn more flies that follow the fruit instead of one and the two Wickerbottom books need to be one book again. I don't feel like engaging with the new farming system if the yield isn't something that in the mid to late game you can plant, turn on sprinkler, have fruit flies tend to the plants and then simply read Wickerbottom's book for a full harvest.

If the plants are going to rot and be overgrown with weeds, the best way to automate this system is to make it viable to set everything up (sprinkler, use some way to tend to every plant), then grow plants quickly and harvest. Then when you want more crops, repeat that again, never leaving patches of untended crops. As opposed to waiting for them to grow and tending to them every day. Tending should be something you do early on in my opinion, not something that is the best you can do late game, because that is not comparable to the low maintenance plants and simply gets dull to do over time and all I end up seeing is weeds everywhere because none cares about the farming system. It is better than the old, but needs changes to make it fun, engaging and rewarding. It makes more sense to start with a system that requires maintenance, but that not being where it ends. Otherwise getting half a stack of berries, stone fruit and cactus once a season with little effort will always be more used than entire season spent on farming to get you a stack or two of every farm crop because of low maintenance.

I have a bad feeling the new system will stay as is now, because there has been no news on whether anything will be changed past it being released out of beta. I do not like the split of the Wickerbottom's horticulture book and the food growing book itself is just so weak it's completely useless to bother with. The crop book has been nerfed to the point where it just isn't worth the resources you need to gather for it, especially since large crops are not possible with it. If there is only one book and crafting cost stays high but can grow any crops within a certain radius and requires sanity to read, to me that would make it balanced while keeping it fun and useful. Besides, how is anyone going to figure out what each book does separately without being told explicitly, since their function is very similar.

[Rinkusan]

You don't have to do a single bit of maintenance with the new farming system. The maintenance work you're referring to is specifically to make crops grow more quickly and give more yield/seed; that's it. With absolutely zero maintenance (zero watering, zero fertilizer, zero talking, zero planning, etc.), you will still get crops, even if you somehow let them rot because they eventually revert back to their sprouting growth stage. 

[Duck986]

35 minutes ago, Rinkusan said:

With absolutely zero maintenance (zero watering, zero fertilizer, zero talking, zero planning, etc.), you will still get crops, even if you somehow let them rot because they eventually revert back to their sprouting growth stage. 

...and you also get no profit cuz you will get crops only, and birds now give only 1 seed instead of 1-2 :Harold:.

[Sapientis]

New farming system is confusing at first, but it is, in fact, super efficient. There were numerous awesome guides published here on the forums, but I assume you haven't read them because of your low-effort approach (and I understand you!).

Here is a well made and easy to understand informational video made by @JazzyGames, one of the best DST youtubers nowadays

Basically you only need to till, plant in required season and family and you'll get at least the same results as with previous farming system, but you won't have to shove half of gathered crops down your's bird's throat. New farms are also a LOT cheaper and take up less space.

[Rinkusan]

Just now, Duck986 said:

...and you also get no profit cuz you will get crops only, and birds now give only 1 seed instead of 1-2 :Harold:.

Seed -> crop is profit. Profit =/= self-sustainability, which I think is what you're talking about. With the minimum-effort approach, you can sustain your farm with random seeds you pick off the ground; you don't have to go the self-sustainable route. And if you do want to self-sustain, birds VERY MUCH help with that. 

Birds are still useful for farming because they allow you to "regrow" a specific crop that you want from random seeds, allowing you to get more seeds of that crop to make more of that crop. For example, if you get a lucky dragonfruit from random seeds, chances are, you probably got 1 or even zero seeds because of the stressors that random-seed plots are prone to. With the bird cage, you can sacrifice that dragonfruit for a dragonfruit-specific seed that you can "properly" grow this time for 1-2 seeds plus another dragonfruit that you can either sacrifice for seeds or eat. Keep up this cycle of exponential seed-harvesting, and you'll eventually have more dragonfruits and dragonfruit seeds than you'll need.

[mkemal23]

3 hours ago, Duck986 said:

...and you also get no profit cuz you will get crops only, and birds now give only 1 seed instead of 1-2 :Harold:.

I mean you just have to plant 4 or more same plant to get 1 seed +1 crop back ?

Oh you also have to press space to tend them.

[Duck986]

9 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

I mean you just have to plant 4 or more same plant to get 1 seed +1 crop back ?

Oh you also have to press space to tend them.

ik, but Rinkusan said "zero watering, zero talking (aka tending)", which leads to impossibility to get crop + seed.

Even if you will plant 4+ crops close enough, but still won't water/talk to/fertilize/etc. them at all, they will accumulate at least 12 stress points and won't give you an additional seed.

[QuartzBeam]

Another day. Another person making blatantly incorrect claims about what the new system requires you to do.

Plant 4+ crops of the same type in a season they like, water them literally once and that's it. You'll get 1 crop + 1 seed for every seed you planted, allowing you to have your harvest and replant it too. Oh, and plant weeds, but once you move past random seeds, these spawn once in a blue moon and can be remedied with a shovel.

Compare that to the old system where you could only get 1 crop for every seed you planted and then had to sacrifice that crop to get a seed back and hope you would get a second seed too. Which meant about 2/3rds of your harvest would have to be turned into seeds so that you can replant as many crops as you harvested. And the farm plots were ridiculously expensive back then.

You don't know what fun is until you take a few years to collect the 460 Cut Grass, 276 Manure and 184 Rocks to be able to plant 46 seeds, only for your actual harvest, after all that hair-pulling Bird Cage RNG, to be a measly 13 veggies.

[Psychomaniac]

10 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

needs changes to make it fun, engaging and rewarding

There is a thing called: "MOD"

"If you want a thing done well, do it yourself." -Napoleon Bonaparte

Source: Dude! Trust me.

P/s: if Klei didn't make the change you want, change it yourself. It's that simple.

[Duck986]

18 minutes ago, Psychomaniac said:

There is a thing called: "MOD"

"If you want a thing done well, do it yourself." -Napoleon Bonaparte

Source: Dude! Trust me.

P/s: if Klei didn't make the change you want, change it yourself. It's that simple.

ah, yes, mods.

@ZombieDupe try this one. It should make your farming a bit easier (or harder).

[wons]

1 hour ago, Psychomaniac said:

There is a thing called: "MOD"

"If you want a thing done well, do it yourself." -Napoleon Bonaparte

Source: Dude! Trust me.

P/s: if Klei didn't make the change you want, change it yourself. It's that simple.

do you think that everyone can do that hellish thing called "programming"?

[Psychomaniac]

26 minutes ago, wons said:

"programming"

Just get on Steam workshop, search for the stuff you need (like i always do), sooner or later something will pop-up, no special skill needed. if you can use google, i think you can use DST Steam workshop. DST community have ton of talented Modder that encounter the same stuff as we do, but they have the skill to change it via mod, all we need to do is wait and search.... repeat > .... > SUBCRIBE and profit.

Exp: like when i want my tilled hole get in lines, tight and order. i get on DST Steam workshop page, search for "till" and "Snapping tills" pop up among other but it have five stars which mean SUBCRIBE, easy peasy.

Exp 2: or when i something related to farming, go search "farm", and "Crops Config" pop-up, again 4 stars > Subcribe.

See, so easy, no skill needed (maybe reading skill is needed).

P/s: just so you know my "programming" level is next to zero, and if i can do it, so can you.

 

[Dechou]

Every stress factor can be automated, except water outside of spring, and even then, in most cases filling the tile with 100% water when planting will be enough to maintain water until grown stage. This means that you don't need to do anything after the setup and planting part to get full fields of giant crops. What you ask to implement in game is already here.

[wons]

15 minutes ago, Psychomaniac said:

Just get on Steam workshop, search for the stuff you need (like i always do), sooner or later something will pop-up, no special skill needed. if you can use google, i think you can use DST Steam workshop. DST community have ton of talented Modder that encounter the same stuff as we do, but they have the skill to change it via mod, all we need to do is wait and search.... repeat > .... > SUBCRIBE and profit.

Exp: like when i want my tilled hole get in lines, tight and order. i get on DST Steam workshop page, search for "till" and "Snapping tills" pop up among other but it have five stars which mean SUBCRIBE, easy peasy.

Exp 2: or when i something related to farming, go search "farm", and "Crops Config" pop-up, again 4 stars > Subcribe.

See, so easy, no skill needed (maybe reading skill is needed).

P/s: just so you know my "programming" level is next to zero, and if i can do it, so can you.

 

ok i thought you were talking about MAKING a mod, ok, my bad

"P/s: just so you know my "programming" level is next to zero, and if i can do it, so can you." i'm not a magician mah dude ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Psychomaniac]

4 minutes ago, wons said:

i'm not a magician

me too !!! Dude!, trust me, you can do it. just go "Search & Subscribe".

 

[wons]

Just now, Psychomaniac said:

me too !!! Dude!, trust me, you can do it. just go "Search & Subscribe".

 

ok i've missreaded something, i feel extremly dumb...

[ZombieDupe]

21 hours ago, QuartzBeam said:

Another day. Another person making blatantly incorrect claims about what the new system requires you to do.

Plant 4+ crops of the same type in a season they like, water them literally once and that's it. You'll get 1 crop + 1 seed for every seed you planted, allowing you to have your harvest and replant it too. Oh, and plant weeds, but once you move past random seeds, these spawn once in a blue moon and can be remedied with a shovel.

Compare that to the old system where you could only get 1 crop for every seed you planted and then had to sacrifice that crop to get a seed back and hope you would get a second seed too. Which meant about 2/3rds of your harvest would have to be turned into seeds so that you can replant as many crops as you harvested. And the farm plots were ridiculously expensive back then.

You don't know what fun is until you take a few years to collect the 460 Cut Grass, 276 Manure and 184 Rocks to be able to plant 46 seeds, only for your actual harvest, after all that hair-pulling Bird Cage RNG, to be a measly 13 veggies.

No, you don't get it. That's the point, I don't want to water crops hundreds of days into the game. Before you could have wormwood plant a whole bunch of seeds in the ground, have wicker read the book and it would be done. The only downside was that the plants would rot, but now they cannot be grown with a book in mass and require watering for a similar yield on top of rotting anyway and having weeds to clear up.

That is what the sprinkler suggestion is for, that is why I want the old book back with a sanity requirement and a harder crafting recipe. Did you read the kind of system that having the better book and a sprinkler would add to this? You could then get about the same yields as before in the long run with a bit tougher setup. The watering is impossible to automate right now and it isn't better than it was before with Wormwood and Wickerbottom combo.

[Lord Cafe]

On 12/15/2020 at 6:26 AM, Psychomaniac said:

There is a thing called: "MOD"

"If you want a thing done well, do it yourself." -Napoleon Bonaparte

Source: Dude! Trust me.

P/s: if Klei didn't make the change you want, change it yourself. It's that simple.

In the beta the new farming system was terrible to much grind to get a single tomato but now is sooo good and easy, i literraly did giants crops in day 10(took only 5 to grow) and didn't use any fertilization, now this system is good but i don't think saying if he wants something diferent he should do by itself, before this update klei nerfed wicker books and this created a big backslash for them and they splited the book in two books which actully  is good thing and finally reverted the nerf which made transplanted plants consume 2 uses which was making each book use only grow 5 plants but my and now wicker is fine cus we don't need to spam books to get 400 berries on day 10 right? but my point is feedback is good and mods are not  always the correct way to deal with a bad  update(Which ins't this case).

My tip for you ZombieDupe is if don't like to farm, use berries and let them grow naturally but use wicker books to get some berries until this happen, make plots with random seeds until  you gets seeds that are the same type like potato and tomato, just plant them together and  water 4 times and that's it if you don't wanna giants crops you can literraly leavem them there and after 5 days you gonna get tomato / potatos AND SEEDS, then you can give this crop to birds to double you farm and make your farm grow in a exponential way but i would strong recommend for you in the earlier days to talk to your plants every day  and keep  them wet,  you don't need to fertilizate potato and tomato since they help each other and their favorite season is the autumn,  if you get big crops  you can make you farm grow so fast that, you can get 200 tomatos and potatos before winter and this is more than enough to sustain you or to use this food to battle since tomato and potato gives 20hp.
 

[Psychomaniac]

1 hour ago, Lord Cafe said:

mods are not  always the correct way

Not the correct way: Agreed.....!  but sure the fastest way  to get thing work in your favor, since the feature he suggest will not happen any time soon. Klei sure not gonna do that, so that leave you only 1 option to make it happen: "MOD".

by "do it yourself" i mean subscribe to mod on workshop and tweak the game to your favor, i can't write mod too.

Mod is the last thing i do when things not work as i want, since i always play alone so it's doesn't matter that much, it's me and mods against the world (i've played enough original game, now prefer having fun over suffer ).

Enable 1 mod or 100 mods made no difference (to me), it's either mod or no mod, i guess you didn't use Geometric Placement mod .

The new farm is better than the old ones. If you don't aim for giant crops, just made a plot, dig 9 holes, water 4 times, plan the right combo (if you have the resource) or just random seeds, tend them 1 and leave, you should get 1 crops & 1 seed per hole in return (If they not all turn into weeds).

P/s: that post you quote is my attempt to be funny, sorry if you don't feel the same .

[Lord Cafe]

4 hours ago, Psychomaniac said:

Not the correct way: Agreed.....!  but sure the fastest way  to get thing work in your favor, since the feature he suggest will not happen any time soon. Klei sure not gonna do that, so that leave you only 1 option to make it happen: "MOD".

by "do it yourself" i mean subscribe to mod on workshop and tweak the game to your favor, i can't write mod too.

Mod is the last thing i do when things not work as i want, since i always play alone so it's doesn't matter that much, it's me and mods against the world (i've played enough original game, now prefer having fun over suffer ).

Enable 1 mod or 100 mods made no difference (to me), it's either mod or no mod, i guess you didn't use Geometric Placement mod .

The new farm is better than the old ones. If you don't aim for giant crops, just made a plot, dig 9 holes, water 4 times, plan the right combo (if you have the resource) or just random seeds, tend them 1 and leave, you should get 1 crops & 1 seed per hole in return (If they not all turn into weeds).

P/s: that post you quote is my attempt to be funny, sorry if you don't feel the same .

Oh i don't have problem with mod i was just saying sometimes if a update isn't good and we should not try to ignore just because we can mod the game but instead give feedback to klei and then if klei keep then use a mod :P i agree that klei will not give what he want since it's preety balanced now but i use some mods to make things easy like, Geometric :V i quoted your post because i though your assuming that no matter how bad or good the update is if we don't like we should mod but now i get what you want to mean.

Cheers.

[Mike23Ua]

I don’t think there needs to be a perfect balance between everything.. I like RWYS farms as they are, they don’t need buffs, they don’t need changes and they sure as heck don’t need structures that passively do all the work for you while you just stand idly by reaping all the rewards.

Old crops= Plant seed in farm plot fertilize with beef poop twice Yield fully grown food in seconds- BORING!!

New Crops= Create Rig Machine, Craft garden hoe, till garden, plant seed, water/fertilize and care for seed, grow crop, enjoy crop.. it’s more in depth and requires more player interaction and I can careless how effective it is as a food source- It’s more fun then the old way and that’s all I care about.

If I happen to need more food while my crops grow.. I’ll build Pigman houses for meat or I’ll go gather more somewhere else- but as long as birds that land on screen continue to drop seeds before flying off you can continue to plant and enjoy (or not enjoy) the benefits of Crops.

[Maxil20]

On 12/16/2020 at 12:26 AM, ZombieDupe said:

No, you don't get it. That's the point, I don't want to water crops hundreds of days into the game.

It takes 10 seconds to water a 3X3 area of 81 crops for them to give a seed. You don't need to water throughout every stage, you just water them once planted and go do whatever you want for the next 3-4 days, and enjoy 81 crops with seeds to spare afterwards. Considering any character can do this, I personally find it more then sufficient. 

In addition, rain will also water the crops. Since growing seasons actually matter, and many crops grow in spring, you can utilize that as a no maintenance season, seeing as the crops won't likely suffer from the water stressors.

Wicker is also still crazy good for the farming rework. While she was nerfed to 10 crops, that technically is the equivalent of 30 crops with the old farming system. Even without that, she still can amass more then enough food with Birds of the Worlds + STS + a scarecrow for canaries.

And yes, while you can do better with berries or the like, that fills the food aspect of things only. Raw crops almost always fulfill both hunger and HP needs, and there are a lot of crockpot dishes that restore sanity with farm crops as well.

[ZombieDupe]

10 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

It takes 10 seconds to water a 3X3 area of 81 crops for them to give a seed. You don't need to water throughout every stage, you just water them once planted and go do whatever you want for the next 3-4 days, and enjoy 81 crops with seeds to spare afterwards. Considering any character can do this, I personally find it more then sufficient. 

In addition, rain will also water the crops. Since growing seasons actually matter, and many crops grow in spring, you can utilize that as a no maintenance season, seeing as the crops won't likely suffer from the water stressors.

Wicker is also still crazy good for the farming rework. While she was nerfed to 10 crops, that technically is the equivalent of 30 crops with the old farming system. Even without that, she still can amass more then enough food with Birds of the Worlds + STS + a scarecrow for canaries.

And yes, while you can do better with berries or the like, that fills the food aspect of things only. Raw crops almost always fulfill both hunger and HP needs, and there are a lot of crockpot dishes that restore sanity with farm crops as well.

Did you read my post properly? I think this is the bit you should focus on and that changes the discussion quite a bit.

On 12/16/2020 at 5:26 AM, ZombieDupe said:

Before you could have wormwood plant a whole bunch of seeds in the ground, have wicker read the book and it would be done. The only downside was that the plants would rot, but now they cannot be grown with a book in mass and require watering for a similar yield on top of rotting anyway and having weeds to clear up.

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

8 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Before you could have wormwood plant a whole bunch of seeds in the ground, have wicker read the book and it would be done

That was the only unfun way of mass producing crops, now any characters can get more than with that method. Limited to using 2 characters over and over to get it

 

If you mind to take few seconds to water and the work of cleaning the fields and use the hoe, you have other methods to get stats like meat farms, honey, etc

[AlternateMew]

3 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Limited to using 2 characters over and over to get it

This is a big weakness of the old system. Farming crops is like, a real life way of reliably getting food. The old way is using a magic plant man and a literal magic witch to grow vegetables.We shouldn't need two separate types of magic just to efficiently grow a field of carrots. This should be basic stuff that anyone can do.

And now it is. It even HAS automation. Plant the right things in the right way and have your pet fruit fly sing to them. I don't understand being upset that you need to put in the small effort of watering your plants to get giant crops.