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DST PVP - WTF? Оо


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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the reason why a lot of characters were originally changed from single player to DST to avoid cheesy PvP advantages, which in turn led to characters like prerework Woodie? The devs didn't want Woodie to just force the transformation and then be a hulking beast with increased speed, damage, and resistance, with the ability to heal with wood. It's why Maxwell doesn't start with a dark sword or night armor, or why Willow wasn't fire proof. Some characters excel in combat and some excel in support. PvP is combat oriented so some characters will be better with it 

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If you're looking for special re-balance centered around PvP, you may check these 2 mods (of course, if playing on PC): DST PvP Revamp (multiple features and configurations) or Unofficial PvP Expansion (not configurable, but pretty solid balance-wise and retains same standards throughout all servers) - these are atm most developed and maintained PvP mods from Steam Workshop.

Else, as previous comments underlined, know DST wasn't focused on PvP (and imo shouldn't be in its main-branch iteration; perhaps in a separate game-mode with special re-balance if KLei finds such alternative feasible and deems worthy of supporting a balanced DST PvP experience). At most PvP was (and certainly is now in vanilla servers that apply it) a joke side-dish. And by this point in DST life I don't think there is a consistent-enough audience for PvP to justify a game-mode centered around it. Time will tell.

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Willow's fire immunity was nerfed because of PvP.  Vito's words can be found here when I transcribed it from the dev stream:

So Klei started buffing players in relation to PvE content after this point and if people want to PvP the option's still there but it's not balanced for at all.

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32 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the reason why a lot of characters were originally changed from single player to DST to avoid cheesy PvP advantages, which in turn led to characters like prerework Woodie? The devs didn't want Woodie to just force the transformation and then be a hulking beast with increased speed, damage, and resistance, with the ability to heal with wood. It's why Maxwell doesn't start with a dark sword or night armor, or why Willow wasn't fire proof.

Yeah, this is true. Early on in DST's life, a lot of the popular streamers were into PVP, and so that shaped the development of the game for a while until those streamers either lost interest in the game or shifted focus to regular survival. I commonly see old Willow's lack of fire resistance being called a nerf related to generically "griefing," but that's never been true (and never made sense), it was because PVP was super centered around fire damage, which could panic players while also applying damage directly to them without the resistance from armor, so Willow being completely 100% immune to that meant Willow would always be the meta character for PVP.

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12 minutes ago, CarlZalph said:

Willow's fire immunity was nerfed because of PvP.  Vito's words can be found here when I transcribed it from the dev stream:

So Klei started buffing players in relation to PvE content after this point and if people want to PvP the option's still there but it's not balanced for at all.

also wx starts with 150 hp instead of 100 for that reason too, if im not wrong

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1 minute ago, DrMcGillacactus said:

Yeah, you're definitely right... I'm going to stop commenting on these posts after this one

Best thing you can really do is wait it out until they get tired, convincing other people to not post on these threads is practically impossible because they'll do it anyway. Emotions and contradicting beliefs and statements almost always override rational thinking.

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On 10/28/2020 at 12:18 PM, OrdoXenos said:

I've seen a lot of oddly balanced pvp games, but starve has surpassed them all.

Mostly I don't agree with your opinions but to be honest, yes. Dont starve pvp is sucks. It's based on luck for who hit first or who find panflute.

I thinked so much about it and I realized it's impossible to make it good. Ranged weapons are not good and don't giving balanced war too.

 There is two way to fix it. They can change fighting system like that. Who spam click or "F" key most can hit most but we will get a problem called macro keyboards and mouses. But they can make a limit (Like minecraft did) and fix it.

Second way is that, they can give us more trap options like that ropetraps makes u backwards from leg or sticky turfs that slow down character etc. 

Can't imagine more system to add fighting system.

On 10/28/2020 at 12:20 PM, Charlie Dark said:

You can just... keep your distance from PVP servers*, I guess...

I just can't understand persons like you. There is a problem in there and you know that. But you just don't want to see it. The funniest part is likes u got. It's just like saying "if your arm hurts when you move it, then don't move it.". 

On 10/28/2020 at 12:47 PM, DaZoul said:

PVP is not even near the main point of DST. It is even in it's description. It's a team survival game, not a PVP game, so it is perfectly in Klei's rights to not expand PVP. They only added it so the few who like it can knock themselves out.

Don't agree. Have you ever tried PVP servers? Have you ever feel that scare? It's fabulous to panicking when a Wolfgang enters servers. It's have it's own taste. But PVP really sucks. If they fix PVP, game is gonna turn something crazy.

On 10/28/2020 at 1:21 PM, beanboy12 said:

you are banned from this server

You can see those persons in every game and even in survival. I saw admins kicks u just bc u didn't give your items or don't did what they says  The thing u are saying is just don't makes sense. 

Yeah it's not a PVP game but if it's have, it could be better.

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46 minutes ago, Slagger said:

Don't agree. Have you ever tried PVP servers? Have you ever feel that scare? It's fabulous to panicking when a Wolfgang enters servers. It's have it's own taste. But PVP really sucks. If they fix PVP, game is gonna turn something crazy.

That makes no sense though, you say you disagree with me saying DST is a team-based survival game, then you start rattling about how good PvP is? You may not agree, but DST is a team-based survival game, and not a PvP game. And no I have not tried PvP servers because I do not like PvP. The majority didnt come to DST to fight PvP because the game isn't a PvP game, and therefore I am pretty sure the majority would not like if Klei spent time improving PvP cause they aren't going to play it anyways.

But if we want to fix PvP, it is basically impossible. They'd have to remove the Pan Flute, cause rn whoever gets to the pan flute first wins. It isn't even a PvP game, rather than a race to the flute. And some characters are just so outstandingly better than others, that a lot of people would be cut off from playing their favourite characters because they suck in a PvP setting. DST is not designed for PvP, and therefore it would be incredibly hard to fix it, Klei would need to put a lot of time and effort into it, and maybe they themselves don't want to do such a thing.

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55 minutes ago, Slagger said:

 

I just can't understand persons like you. There is a problem in there and you know that. But you just don't want to see it. The funniest part is likes u got. It's just like saying "if your arm hurts when you move it, then don't move it.". 

Aaauugh... no! My comment had an entirely different meaning. I meant "If you don't like something, then don't do it." Hmph.

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On 10/28/2020 at 6:13 PM, Minitte said:

I can imagine Don't Starve: MOBA :)
maybe someone will make the mod one day

I have a few ideas of how I think a fun pvp mode could be implemented through a mod, sadly I have no idea how to code :( and pvp is rather frown upon by the current community.

Spoiler

Ive been thinking that it should be team based, with each team spawning on a different island and the game modes objectives could be king of the hill (completing a task in a neutral island for X time) killing the other team's pet (probably a neutral pigman with a crown) or stealing a specific resource off a heavily guarded  island which is also full of mobs that attack all players, and the first team that obtains X amount wins (being able to also steal from the enemy base, of course).

Death means you have a small cooldown before respawning on your island again. And the progress system is based on weapons improvement, like on the forge.

I'd like it to feature both naval fights, some limited defense systems placing, and land direct pvp, but with a simpler combat system, much like the forge. And with a simplified and limited crafting system (and a heavy character rebalance of course, based on each character's thematic and current skills)

But seeing how much people still plays the forge mod (some being the only thing they play of the game) it gives me hope that at least a certain public, or a completely different one, would probably enjoy such mode.

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1 hour ago, Slagger said:

 

I just can't understand persons like you. There is a problem in there and you know that. But you just don't want to see it. The funniest part is likes u got. It's just like saying "if your arm hurts when you move it, then don't move it.". 

 

ok am i stupid or something because im pretty sure if your arm hurts when you move it then it would be best that you dont move it so it can heal faster right?

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1 hour ago, stranger again said:

ok am i stupid or something because im pretty sure if your arm hurts when you move it then it would be best that you dont move it so it can heal faster right?

If your arm is hurts, you should go to a doctor bc there is a problem about it. And also PVP is not gonna get better if you keep don't playing it.

2 hours ago, DaZoul said:

majority would not like if Klei spent time

They just thinked "Hey pvp would be cool" and they just added it. It's not hard to improve. Also They started it, they should finish it correctly. I wouldn't complain that much if DST wasn't have PVP system but for now, it's unfinished.

2 hours ago, DaZoul said:

They'd have to remove the Pan Flute, cause rn whoever gets to the pan flute first wins. It isn't even a PvP game, rather than a race to the flute. And some characters are just so outstandingly better than others, that a lot of people would be cut off from playing their favourite characters because they suck in a PvP setting.

Panflute can be disabled if PVP get on or basically they can make it changeable. You can be sure they would be tons of mods if dst gets PVP update. Also you keep saying it's gonna need so much effort. It's few days work. They are not gonna add animations, they are not gonna ad effects. Also you think about characters death fights. In that way, tanks are much better but you can't say anything about surviving. PVP is not only fighting servers. Its means being enemy with everything. The person who burn bases would get enemy so fast and will die probably bc of not improving himself. Even most mortal character Maxwell can make duelist for annoying players while he attacks, wander in the night for being invisible, don't needing sleep and of course getting so much materials so fast. The only person can be so easy is Wortox and we think he is easy peasy even in normal game, so I wouldn't put in character lists. If you still think still someone sucks at surviving, that means u thinks characters are not balanced and that's not problem of pvp.

2 hours ago, Charlie Dark said:

If you don't like something, then don't do it.

The point of me and OP is that: We don't think PVP is not fun to play. We say PVP mechanics are broken. That's really different thing. I want to play PVP like a real PVP requiring strategy and skills, not who hit first that would win. Would you pass it if you only had hand lights in caves that makes you impossible to mine? Would you accept an answer like "So don't go caves buddy" huh?

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3 minutes ago, Slagger said:

If you still think still someone sucks at surviving, that means u thinks characters are not balanced and that's not problem of pvp.

That's not what I said though. I said that some characters are just so much better than others at PvP. (I didn't add the "at PvP" part but that's what I obviously meant) that if you wanted to win, then you had to pick those characters, cause if you pick other characters, you are starting at a huge disadvantage

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1 minute ago, Slagger said:

If your arm is hurts, you should go to a doctor bc there is a problem about it. And also PVP is not gonna get better if you keep don't playing it.

I ain't trying to start arguments, but you weren't very specific on whether or not we'd already gone to the clinic.

On a Separate note, are you just continuing to defend yourself even though you're wrong? Whether or not you'll actually answer that question honestly is debatable and whether or not you'll take offence to that question (It's all about the tone that you receiver chooses to interpret text) and pull me farther down this rabbit hole. I don't study Psychology but I've seen cases of people continuously defending themselves rather than admitting they were wrong.

On a seperate separate note (For everyone this time.), It's most likely a troll thread. So think rationally and less angry (Ish). Capeesh? 

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1 hour ago, DaZoul said:

That's not what I said though. I said that some characters are just so much better than others at PvP. (I didn't add the "at PvP" part but that's what I obviously meant) that if you wanted to win, then you had to pick those characters, cause if you pick other characters, you are starting at a huge disadvantage

Bro I know some characters are better at fighting but PVP is not Forge like. You still have to survive and powerful characters have to eat more or have a different diet than others. Yes, I think some of them have more or less problem then others. WX, Wortox and Wigfrid is totally best ones but that wouldn't make them perfect. Also being team with someone is best. Like Wicker and Maxwell is probably better than Wigfrid and Wolfgang team.

1 hour ago, ZeeDragon said:

I ain't trying to start arguments, but you weren't very specific on whether or not we'd already gone to the clinic.

LOL, just LOL. So that's all we have about pvp and you think it's good now? Congratulations, you are the first person think like that. I would bet you are the one of those guys find panflut first everytime.

Also for next of your text. Who the hell you think you are? How much you had talked with me or do you have any telepathic powers to see my opinions? I didn't said anything about anyone's ideas, I just send my ideas about it. It's about discussing and thinking/realizing new ideas and opinions. That's why forums exist. Even if you was god damn Descartes you wouldn't had a right for categorize me or saying I'm not accepting other ideas. I shared my ideas by examples, how about you? You just categorized me wrong but I can give a perfect one for you. You are the one of those persons which don't want other ones ideas and instead of sharing his own ideas prefer to blame persons with stupid ways. Also what is defending? We are not in a war. As I see it's a discussing thread. I'm discussing. I didn't underestimate anyone, I didn't cursed anyone. Also it's not argument, it's idea. It can be not for everyone but it can't be wrong. Maybe you don't like it. Just share yours or say I don't liked it.  Klei will read them and they will add it or don't care it.

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3 hours ago, Slagger said:

..[I love PvP]..

You and a couple vocal 2-3 others on these forums may love PvP as a concept/way-of-play. But truth of matter is DST doesn't attract people that usually are into PvP. And that's not just because current PvP is broken, which it is - seeing that DST is not balanced around PvP (and should never be - it will subtract a lot from current way of play and player-base if it were done main-branch). I gave those 2 mod-examples that re-balance DST PvP fairly well since there actually are community servers out there with those mods enabled on their dedicated pubs. And here's the thing: even if those communities are big, have balanced PvP and advertise it as such, almost no one is playing on those respective servers. This seems, once more, to be the crux of matter: DST as a general community doesn't attract the regular type of players - the quite swift-action belligerent ones - PvP-oriented games do. Mostly because DST is a long-play endeavor while PvP resumes itself at quick, small, action-packed sessions from spawning onward. Sessions that last 8-10 minutes tops, whereas typical DST Survival sessions go up to 30-40 minutes. Aka patient, long-runs goals people vs "give it to me now" crowd PvP usually attracts. Different products, other target-audience. At least atm.

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7 minutes ago, Slagger said:

LOL, just LOL. So that's all we have about pvp and you think it's good now? Congratulations, you are the first person think like that. I would bet you are the one of those guys find panflut first everytime.

I've never actually played PVP before nor do I want to, thank you for your concern. No it's not good now, whether or not you perceived that as a conclusion I will never know. Despite the rants we all know Klei isn't going to change PVP anytime soon (I mean adding or changing existing mechanics for this setting)

9 minutes ago, Slagger said:

*Very salty salt mine* 

Despite saying that you're not arguing you're doing exactly that whether you actually know or not. If you perceived that as an insult that I apologize, I didn't categorize you as wrong as I'm quite neutral about your argument. Again, you're arguing that you aren't not accepting people's ideas when you actually are whether or not you realize that. 

19 minutes ago, Slagger said:

You are the one of those persons which don't want other ones ideas and instead of sharing his own ideas prefer to blame persons with stupid ways.

You aren't right, but aren't wrong. Truthfully I don't have anything to say about PVP nor do I have an opinion about the mechanic itself. It's not that I hate other people's ideas I just don't think too much about it. Which is why you don't exactly see me too often on these kinda of threads, debating whether or not something is unbalanced or not and whether something should be changed. But, who am I putting the blame on? You? Me? The OP? I don't know. I don't know if it's the fact that it's that English isn't your first language or you misunderstood something. But I can tell you that from another persons perspective I don't exactly belong here anyway.

27 minutes ago, Slagger said:

As I see it's a discussing thread. I'm discussing.

"Discussing" 

28 minutes ago, Slagger said:

I didn't underestimate anyone, I didn't cursed anyone. Also it's not argument

I didn't say anything about underestimating, I think this part of your post might be a misunderstanding or (Again) English isn't your first language.

On the other side of that snip, go back and read your earlier posts and think about it from another forumers perspective. Think about whether or not you were actually discussing or just being rude.

33 minutes ago, Slagger said:

Maybe you don't like it. Just share yours or say I don't liked it

Y'know you could've just answered the question and then said you didn't like my post rather than have blown up about it? Dunno about you but I don't have any ideas. I just asked a question, pointed something out. And you got angry about it. Nothing more.

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Honestly I would rather Klei NOT try to balance PvP anymore.. and instead focus on more Coop content, Don’t Starve TOGETHER is the name of the game after all- and as Amazing as Wendy and Willows reworks were.. PvP would have to see them both significantly nerfed to so other characters even stood a chance.

Like my previous suggestion- An actual Mode or Mini-Game where your character choice only determines the skin your using meanwhile all character abilities and stats are removed so everyone shares the same stats.. that’s the ONLY WAY to balance PVP in DST without also directly nerfing refreshes they have done with PVE in mind.

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