Troubled waters

[DarkPulse91]

I honestly just want more islands. Even if they are islands that have no significance and are just a plains or savanna biome on a single island. That would still be nice for me. So i have a normal island i could base at!

Something much like that islandia mod

[Scrimbles]

5 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Also, even if they are not worth in land, the seasonal fishes are pretty cool

I think this sums up RoT pretty well.

"Its not worth it, but its pretty cool"

[minespatch]

9 minutes ago, DarkPulse91 said:

I honestly just want more islands. Even if they are islands that have no significance and are just a plains or savanna biome on a single island.

More NPCS with quests too.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Lumberlocke said:

Honestly, if those players want to stick to the ""meta"", I suppose just let them. As long as the new content in Return of Them remains fun, I'll continue to have a blast with whatever Klei comes up with. 

It just really gets under my skin sometimes that an open world sandbox game where I can literally go where I want and do whatever I want.. has to even HAVE a Meta.. 

I played the original Resident Evil Games.. I was Around before Mario or Sonic was ever brought into existence.. So when I think “Meta” I think of a game that is like those old Mario, Sonic or resident evil games.. Games that were linear as heck, and had a starting line, and a finishing line- you spawn in the game, you go here.. you do this exact thing every single time you play, you always find this shotgun in that cabinet in the upstairs bedroom for example.

THAT To me Is Meta... That is a game that can’t be played any other way except for the point to point beginning and ending the creators made for it.

A Sandbox game should never have a “Meta” you do what you want, how you want, and have fun.. that’s what games are made for to have fun..

Which is exactly why every time Klei releases a new raid boss for DST you see ME Complain about it, because that is content I will either need to use some clever tactic to tackle alone.. or I will need to gather a group of people to go do.

Is it fun content? Maybe so.. but I may never know because it’s content that is not geared towards my playstyle, I’m not into gathering folks together to take on tough challenging raid bosses.

Thats Not what DS was about.. and that’s not what I bought DST to Spend my time doing. If I wanted to gather a group up and engage in boss fights I would go play Elder Scrolls Online or throw some tribute items into the obelisks on Ark Survival Evolved.

No.. instead the content that I’m into & the reason I bought DST rather unfortunately (until Klei started these character reworks and return of them updates) Was very minimal.

So your question is “What exactly am I into if boss fights and sitting around building a Mega base isn’t my thing?”

The answer to that is quite simple ADVENTURE! exploration, running around on my map finding new things, fighting new mobs and most importantly of All- In a Randomly Generated world I can never get “Too” Familiar with.

When I play DS Solo.. I see things like Trees I only ever see in the Swamp Biome Of DST.. being outside of the swamps and actually in the Beefalo Savannah.

And That right there is DSTs biggest problem- It’s Biomes HAVE NAMES.. and stuff you KNOW you’ll always find there.. We go right back to that house with the shotgun in the same dresser upstairs.

BREAK THE META Klei.. I’m Begging you- Let Meteor showers fall anywhere outside of their known Mosaic biome.. Let Tentacles be hiding in tall grass in a Savannah.. Let maps spawn without a pig king in it at all- When I buy a game that promises randomly generated worlds that hate me and want me to die.. let me have just exactly that.

I want to adventure around in worlds completely lost, scared of what’s about to happen next.. maybe hound waves can attack randomly instead of on pre-determined days, maybe there can be bat or spider or hilarious angry little Catcoon waves..

DST- The Quest for Grand Adventure.

[Well-met]

2 hours ago, Lumberlocke said:

Honestly, if those players want to stick to the ""meta"", I suppose just let them. As long as the new content in Return of Them remains fun, I'll continue to have a blast with whatever Klei comes up with. 

there's a ton of people who enjoy the new content but also play strategically.

the entirety of RoT so far is stone fruits and a salt box. 

[Truffle]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

It just really gets under my skin sometimes that an open world sandbox game where I can literally go where I want and do whatever I want.. has to even HAVE a Meta.. 

I played the original Resident Evil Games.. I was Around before Mario or Sonic was ever brought into existence.. So when I think “Meta” I think of a game that is like those old Mario, Sonic or resident evil games.. Games that were linear as heck, and had a starting line, and a finishing line- you spawn in the game, you go here.. you do this exact thing every single time you play, you always find this shotgun in that cabinet in the upstairs bedroom for example.

THAT To me Is Meta... That is a game that can’t be played any other way except for the point to point beginning and ending the creators made for it.

A Sandbox game should never have a “Meta” you do what you want, how you want, and have fun.. that’s what games are made for to have fun..

Which is exactly why every time Klei releases a new raid boss for DST you see ME Complain about it, because that is content I will either need to use some clever tactic to tackle alone.. or I will need to gather a group of people to go do.

Is it fun content? Maybe so.. but I may never know because it’s content that is not geared towards my playstyle, I’m not into gathering folks together to take on tough challenging raid bosses.

Thats Not what DS was about.. and that’s not what I bought DST to Spend my time doing. If I wanted to gather a group up and engage in boss fights I would go play Elder Scrolls Online or throw some tribute items into the obelisks on Ark Survival Evolved.

No.. instead the content that I’m into & the reason I bought DST rather unfortunately (until Klei started these character reworks and return of them updates) Was very minimal.

So your question is “What exactly am I into if boss fights and sitting around building a Mega base isn’t my thing?”

The answer to that is quite simple ADVENTURE! exploration, running around on my map finding new things, fighting new mobs and most importantly of All- In a Randomly Generated world I can never get “Too” Familiar with.

When I play DS Solo.. I see things like Trees I only ever see in the Swamp Biome Of DST.. being outside of the swamps and actually in the Beefalo Savannah.

And That right there is DSTs biggest problem- It’s Biomes HAVE NAMES.. and stuff you KNOW you’ll always find there.. We go right back to that house with the shotgun in the same dresser upstairs.

BREAK THE META Klei.. I’m Begging you- Let Meteor showers fall anywhere outside of their known Mosaic biome.. Let Tentacles be hiding in tall grass in a Savannah.. Let maps spawn without a pig king in it at all- When I buy a game that promises randomly generated worlds that hate me and want me to die.. let me have just exactly that.

I want to adventure around in worlds completely lost, scared of what’s about to happen next.. maybe hound waves can attack randomly instead of on pre-determined days, maybe there can be bat or spider or hilarious angry little Catcoon waves..

DST- The Quest for Grand Adventure.

I don't think you know what meta means. Meta in this game is just ruin rushing. Nothing is stopping you from exploring and having an adventure. The reason people don't do the ocean stuff is because most of the loot that deals with the ocean is not as great as the stuff on land, so they don't even bother.

What you are talking about is the world generation. Or whatever its called. I would rather that be a separate mode than it be base cuz it sounds annoying having random tentacles everywhere and also if I wanted to have a base somewhere it would be very annoying to have to combat meteors and be able to do nothing to combat it except living in the caves. I remember in the single player version you could put many of the settings on "more" so you could have crazy mobs spawn everywhere which was crazy but laaaaggggyyyyyy so I doubt they will do that again unless the game can handle it.

[Frashaw27]

38 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

It just really gets under my skin sometimes that an open world sandbox game where I can literally go where I want and do whatever I want.. has to even HAVE a Meta..

Okay just to start off, you show that you don't know what the "meta" means in our context. One of the top definitions in the Urban Dictionary goes as follows "Abbreviation of Most Effective Tactic Available. Mostly used when comparing tactics in a game, but can be used in other things as well. It can change over time as new tactics are explored or can change by a change in the rules of a game or availability of new resources" (ChelseaStaub). This definition explains it perfectly, it's means that the meta is just what works the best tactic in both efficiency and availability. For example, recipes like Fishsticks and the new Beefy Greens both heal the same amount as a Pierogi, but the Pierogi is the meta food because of how available and accessible the resources are compared to the other options. There is also the point that a meta is in all games of all types. In your beloved Mario, as early as game 3, the meta has always been to prioritize the mobility power ups since it decreased the platforming challenge of the game. In the Binding of Isaac, the meta is to almost always go for Devil Deals since they have the highest chance of giving the best items. It is so metaed that one of the characters, The Keeper, is regarded as the hardest character in the game, with one of the big supporters being that, due to how his health works, he can almost never take Devil Deals. Conversely, the other challenge character, The Lost, has his challenge significantly reduced due to his ability to take Devil Deals without penalty. In Shin Megami Tensai III: Nocturne, the meta is heavily physical attack oriented with skills Charge (a 250% damage boost to a physical attack) and Pierce (ignores all physical attack resistances except reflect). These two skills make is so that literally any other method is seen as putting salt into the wound of this already difficult game.  With these 3 examples, we can see that all games have a form of meta, even if it is worded differently. The thing is that, the meta never has to be followed. You can use alternative healing sources in DST if you want too, you can go with Fire flowers in Mario to attack the enemies, You can go for Angel Deals in Isaac, and you can go for a magic play through in SMT. Yes, it is weird that a game is as open as DST has a meta, but that is because ALL games have metas, it isn't something that is exclusive to DST and MMO's alone.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

THAT To me Is Meta... That is a game that can’t be played any other way except for the point to point beginning and ending the creators made for it.

No, that is not what a "meta" is. That is called a "story" for games that have them. If a game has a story that it wants to tell and the gameplay stops when the story ends, then that is fine, but it still isn't what a meta is. Even these types of games, there are metas.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

A Sandbox game should never have a “Meta” you do what you want, how you want, and have fun.. that’s what games are made for to have fun..

And what if doing the Meta is fun for other people? Are you going to deny the people the right for a chance to fully conquer the world with as little difficulty as possible. Yes, YOU don't follow the meta and don't find it fun, but that doesn't mean that people who DO follow the meta aren't allowed to have their version of fun. Again, the meta isn't something that somebody holds you at gun point to follow, it is something you have to choose to follow. You can do what ever you want to do, as I can't stop you, but you can't deny that the meta isn't there for a reason.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Which is exactly why every time Klei releases a new raid boss for DST you see ME Complain about it, because that is content I will either need to use some clever tactic to tackle alone.. or I will need to gather a group of people to go do.

So you are angry that Klei is giving something to actively challenge you, yet you say that you want something to actively challenge you. The reason why we don't take you very seriously is that you actively contradict yourself. You say you want one thing, but then you say you want the exact opposite, and want both at the exact same tine with perfect mixing without any difficulties or convolutions. This is just y opinion, but my opinion is to get your opinion and stick with it. It is fine if you want to game to be much more accessible to new players, and it is fine if you want the game to be more difficult to veterans, but stop trying to have both cakes and eat both of them at the same time.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

I’m Begging you- Let Meteor showers fall anywhere outside of their known Mosaic biome.. Let Tentacles be hiding in tall grass in a Savannah.. Let maps spawn without a pig king in it at all- When I buy a game that promises randomly generated worlds that hate me and want me to die.. let me have just exactly tha

I'm going to address this part first. No Klei should absolutely not do this because it ruins the skill curve of the game. To take another game into consideration, Team Fortress 2, we can see why there is a problem with random progression. In TF2, there is a thing called random crits which, as the name implies, will randomly give massive increase to damage. The problem with this is that it inherently removes skill from the game since, at any time, you could hit or be hit by something you can never account for and thus kill/be killed sort of unfairly, and we can see why a similar problem could arise in  DST. With complete randomness, then almost any part of progression would be entirely luck based since it would be your luck that makes it if you have a chance of getting certain resources. Even in your repeated quote of "a world where almost everything wants to kill you", doesn't meant that the game should be randomness simulator. by having these concrete biome spawning and having certain things always spawn makes it so that a player can grow as they play the game.  Taking hound attacks as a example, if they just spawned whenever, it would increase the difficulty, but it would also make game luck based since a truly random ambush system would make so that you can go days and days without hounds and also the possibility to have hounds day after day after day, and if you say "of course it wouldn't be like that since that is ridiculous, there would be limits" then it would just be the same system as before but with different numbers. The game would be damaged heavily by "true randomness" because there is so much that can go wrong with it, so please stop with this repeated rhetoric of randomness for challenge.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

BREAK THE META Kle

Finally, lets discuss this. So to start out, you can't break a meta, only change it. Even if it becomes entirely unrecognizable from the previous one, it will still exist. If we do something like heavily nerf Hambats and Dark Swords, something relatively common in rebalence threads, the result would be that Glass Cutters and Thulucite Clubs finally get their time in the limelight but the problem still remains that, in compared to those two, all the other weapons are inferior to it. That is the problem with the meta, if you try to remove something from it, it will just be replaced by something else. What is the better solution is too make things that can be used in conjunction with the meta. If we go back to our previous example, a Dark Sword maybe the meta, but the Thulucite Club can be used instead or may even be better in certain fights. So no, don't just entirely break the meta, since that will accomplish nothing and instead just make those items worthless. What we should do it so have items that have simular "meta" values to the meta ones, like a really strong weapon exists only after beating a boss.

 

To go back on topic, What I want more islands, which is what is the common opinion in this thread, but I want it because I feel that the ocean has a decent amount of  already, and I feel that populating the ocean with full islands would do more to remove the empty space instead of just adding more and more until the ocean is at max capacity.

[CaRat]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

And That right there is DSTs biggest problem- It’s Biomes HAVE NAMES.. and stuff you KNOW you’ll always find there

"Hey what biome is the beefolo in?"

"Its in the yellowish ground biome with grass"

"Isn't that underground?"

"No a little more yellow."

"Oh yeah that one. Only if we had a name for it."

(Having no biome is problematic with so many enemies being able to spawn in the same spot. Like merms and pigs.)

[Mike23Ua]

38 minutes ago, Frashaw27 said:

-snip- .

I don’t know how to respond to all that, but I just feel heartbroken that Klei does All this hard work to give us all this amazing content and a good bit of that content being based off what we wanted to see (such as Boat Lanterns and Boat Lightning Rods) But yet- Some people still Criticize Klei’s efforts as being New content just for the sake of being new content.

Honestly.. what the hell are y’all expecting? All I want is new areas to explore and new mobs to fight, I don’t care at all how good or how bad the loot I get from doing that is.. Because I don’t play by Meta anyway.

When I talk about pretty much anything including a “Randomize everything” Button, it’s because I want to see this game being accessible to a larger variety of player skill levels.

Here I will provide an excellent example in that- When Klei added Wurt, and she had all these amazing upsides and literally her only downside was “is a vegetarian & pigs hate her” I heavily Criticized Wurt as being wayyyyyy too easy with no real downsides.

People said Winter was Wurts biggest downside but Ehhh not really, I will role with that though... To finish my example- When I said Wurt was too easy I said that knowing EXACTLY what day Winter started on, EXACTLY What day Winter ended on.. and exactly what all I would needed to survive, and by Day 18- I would be fully prepared to survive the Entire Winter therefore making Wurts largest downside hilariously easy to overcome.

But THEN Klei added a new toggle option to their settings menu with Mays QoL update, The Option to randomize the Season, and randomize the Season Length, Which I had to face my biggest challenge ever as Wurt when I had 2 days of Autumn and then a long grueling Winter by Day 3.

The TL:DR- I Deleted every world save I had so I could enjoy ALL my worlds under this new Random Weather Season & Random Season Length for some Unpredictable Mad Chaos.

It Took something I knew how to prepare for and handle, and it threw that at me suddenly and unprepared.

I would NEVER ask for Klei to change what your currently playing and enjoying.. all I want is new options prior to starting a world, that lets me customize MY Personal world a little more.. maybe I want my biomes broken up into an Archipelago and I’ll need to sail in between each one to gather the appropriate resources? 

Maybe I want hound waves to happen randomly without any warning..

Maybe I want to toggle Meteor showers to extend outside of the Mosaic biome their most commonly known to fall in.
 

these things won’t make YOUR game any harder or any easier unless you start a new world and toggle all those fancy options prior to your world being created.

Breaking the Meta is as simple as my Wurt Winter example.. by Day 20 I’m fully prepared and thriving, by Day 3... I’m Barely surviving struggling to find all the stuff I need in a hurried panic. 
 

And it’s something I want A lot more of!!

[ArubaroBeefalo]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t know how to respond to all that, but I just feel heartbroken that Klei does All this hard work to give us all this amazing content and a good bit of that content being based off what we wanted to see (such as Boat Lanterns and Boat Lightning Rods) But yet- Some people still Criticize Klei’s efforts as being New content just for the sake of being new content.

 

new content should be balanced thinking in what is already in the game or will be hard work for nothing. Take as example antlion, awesome fight and cool loot only if you play with more people. Do you think that i will have incentive to fight him in my solo worlds? not at all, for meat and useless dessert rocks no, i will not expent all sumer fishing for it. Maybe few times to enjoy the fight if im boring

same with other stuff. If they add awesome mob desing like moon island spiders but doesnt offer nothing that a weak danger then i will just ignore them 99% of the time. Ruins, as i said in other post, are just cool stuff that you dont really need to beat the game but being "close" and so good make me want to take the risk (if is fun i dont care) and the time (this is what count the most when you add stuff).

Yes you can fish for food if you want to have fun in that way, i even made a aquarium with all the fish spieces but when i finished it i never use again a rod

ofc is impossible to make all the stuff as usefull as the best options and i like seeing fauna even if is not worth killing them but not ALL the fauna

[Cheggf]

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I've been wondering this for awhile how do you tell where to check for the lunar island locating it kills me when I play outside of my own worlds.

But as for sailing in general if I'm being honest I hate it purely because of how long it takes.

If you explore the entire border of the world (As you normally should) you should find a part of it that looks strangely generated, almost "cut off". It looks like a horseshoe shape with very flat ends. If you set sail from one of the flat ends you should find the island rather quickly. That's been true for me dozens of times in a row but I'm not sure if it's a 100% chance to be true.

While looking for an example picture so I don't have to open the game and use some console commands just to show you, I found this Imgur album which elaborates a bit more and provides a horseshoe example, although in the worlds I've seen they're usually more like a horseshoe. 

[Truffle]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

Breaking the Meta is as simple as my Wurt Winter example.. by Day 20 I’m fully prepared and thriving, by Day 3... I’m Barely surviving struggling to find all the stuff I need in a hurried panic. 
 

And it’s something I want A lot more of!!

I get what your saying but its still not the meta. U just want more options for randomized world generation

[Yuuko]

13 hours ago, Ogrecakes said:

...and boat combat options are still undercooked, so hunting them seems like a waste of time, proper harpoons or traps would help with this issue, I like the idea if putting tooth traps on the boat for whenever the shark jumps aboard, so some sort of net trap could be cool.

 

I definitely want a boat mounted gun you can load with either a cannon shot, net or harpoon.  Manual aim and fire.  It would be awesome, and give a better feeling to hunting narwails if you could harpoon them, reel them in and finish them.

Also we should be able to render their fat into lamp oil to replace going to the caves for lightbulbs.

[Owlrust]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

A Sandbox game should never have a “Meta” you do what you want, how you want, and have fun.. that’s what games are made for to have fun..

The thing I like about metas in DST is the amount of utility and paths that open up to the players that use them. Let me clarify; in games like Overwatch or Apex Legends a meta is considered a baseline for a leveled playing field (that is to say, following a meta or developing your own is required in the long-term) because the choices other players make will often affect your own way of life in the game due to choosing the Most Effective Tactic Available; it is for this reason that, in order to win, you need to adapt to the best playstyle. In Don't Starve Together you have many different options to choose from (including the meta), but none are required to improve your playstyle because other players will often not get directly involved with you. 

I like to see DST's metas as tactics that can be improved or improvised in many different ways. For example, it was meta to use Killer Bees when fighting the Crab King but that may change with the Sea Weeds, or the fact that Walter can solo Bee Queen with Snurtle Shell Armor without taking any damage to sanity or health (I'm still proud of my discovery, I don't get many of those, bite me). without being required in your playstyle.

Nothing's required, all that matters in the end is that you made it to the finish line by your own means, and DST gives you enough options to do that any way you please my friend.

[Ryde]

I would like some mangoes to be harvested somewhere, somewhen. I have hope this will become a reality. We're craving to finally become farmers!

[Yuuko]

37 minutes ago, Owlrus98 said:

The thing I like about metas in DST is the amount of utility and paths that open up to the players that use them. Let me clarify; in games like Overwatch or Apex Legends a meta is considered a baseline for a leveled playing field (that is to say, following a meta or developing your own is required in the long-term) because the choices other players make will often affect your own way of life in the game due to choosing the Most Effective Tactic Available; it is for this reason that, in order to win, you need to adapt to the best playstyle. In Don't Starve Together you have many different options to choose from (including the meta), but none are required to improve your playstyle because other players will often not get directly involved with you. 

I like to see DST's metas as tactics that can be improved or improvised in many different ways. For example, it was meta to use Killer Bees when fighting the Crab King but that may change with the Sea Weeds, or the fact that Walter can solo Bee Queen with Snurtle Shell Armor without taking any damage to sanity or health (I'm still proud of my discovery, I don't get many of those, bite me). without being required in your playstyle.

Nothing's required, all that matters in the end is that you made it to the finish line by your own means, and DST gives you enough options to do that any way you please my friend.

So much this - its why I always promote cheese when ppl whip out their wolfgang bd threads about things like which boss is toughest.  Picking wolfgang, rushing ruins, and rushing through all of the bosses will certainly clear the game fastest.  But if you're going to make a world last 6000 days... what are you in a hurry for? lol

I had more fun recruiting some depth worms to dps toadstool while I just ran around chopping sporecaps than I ever had solo fighting him.  What makes the game fun is how you play it, which is why I love torching my base 

[sinisterrkid]

1 hour ago, Owlrus98 said:

or the fact that Walter can solo Bee Queen with Snurtle Shell Armor without taking any damage to sanity or health (I'm still proud of my discovery, I don't get many of those, bite me).

Would you mind explaining this strat a bit? Also congrats on discovering a DST strategy, it's one of my life goals to discover one myself and I am BARELY kidding. I am not kidding.

25 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

What makes the game fun is how you play it, which is why I love torching my base 

LMAO

[Sub-Maxwell]

This doesn’t pertain to Troubled Waters specifically, but Shipwrecked stuff is always a win. I know a lot of people have mixed feelings about Shipwrecked mechanics in DST, but there’s so much potential even if they added just a few small isles that had that content. Not all of it, mind you, but there’s a lot of fun stuff there. Wildboars, Prime Apes, Fishermerms, coconut and jungle trees, snakes, bosses, etc. The other Shipwrecked characters could be good with some reworks too, like Woodlegs being able to craft raft cannons and find sunken treasures, and Walani being able to make a quick way to explore using her surfboard. Wilbur is my favorite solo character just because of how goofy he is, being a monkey and all.

TLDR: I love Shipwrecked, Wilbur is best.

[Owlrust]

1 hour ago, sinisterrkid said:

Would you mind explaining this strat a bit?

Walter takes a guaranteed 10 extra damage from bee attacks (including from the Bee Queen) and this is not negated by armor (mostly); however I learned that when you hide inside the snurtle shell armor you take no damage and no sanity penalty either. I use this tactic to fight her more legit but the harvesting of the shells can be tedious without a good method; I recommend using a beekeeper hat as well in order to prolong the shell's lifespan. Here's a short clip attached of me using said method: