Sliders for boss HP/DMG

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 hours ago, Caochu said:

Is planting a a houndius hootius, a lureplant bulb and waiting 20 minutes the real experience of the game, though ?

Is building 30 rabbits hutch and hide 15 minutes in a bush hat the real experience of the game, though ?

Is perma freezing and spamming F the real experience of the game, though ?

I don't care what you consider the "real experience", but if you do any of the listed one above, you just can't at the same time say things like "stop making the game easier". Bonus point if it is a strategy you didn't think of but got from Youtube or the forum.

What's the point for a solo player to have a 10-20 minutes fight with the same kitting pattern and calling it the true experience compared to just scaling the HP and making the fight 5-10 mn long like in DS ? If you kite well, you will even end up using the same resources amount. You are just gonna make the regular fight (Dragonfly, Toad) less tedious on the long run. There is no skills involved once you get the pattern, there is just whether you feel like doing the hit and run for 20 minutes or no. The fact that I feel often that it will be too boring to do for the 4th or 5th time is a kind of a red signal I think.

That's the kind of things that could be QOL actually and could change the perception of the game of many.

 

its killing bee queen 100 times in the same way the real experience of the game?

just an example but i have killed beequeen with pan flautes, just kiting, with a wall and doors, using abigail, using wortox, with deerclops help, with friends, alone, with catapults, with merms warriors, with few and lots of pigs/bunnymens and with bearger (if my memory is not failing)

just with this boss and with my own experience. Imagine if we add more tactics and more bosses. We can talk about it forever so like i dont "like" that people get stuck in his confort zone of "i win pressing this buttom" (just because is an unhealthy behavoir in some cases) i dont think is bad to use what the game brings to you to deal with problems so is that bad to make and army of bunnymen and see a hilarious war or trying a new way of killing a boss that you didnt experience (like in other thread talking about to use eye plants to make extra damage)

there is only one boss i consider a little tedious but is part of his mechanic (getting you tired and hard to focus) and its toadstool. Changing the hp not only reduces the risk of having a hound wave, getting starve, going insane, run out of armor/weapon, worms, etc

If you think a fight is tedious just use one of the numerous ways of doing it quickly

To add, i love hamlet bosses but i hate that they have only 3k hp, the boss fight becomes a mob fight (and more if you play dst alone)

[glooomy]

11 hours ago, Well-met said:

Don't talk about boss balance if you use exploits. Simple enough. 

LOL does this mean people who use Wolfgang can’t talk about boss balance either since they use a crutch character to make a boss fight easier for them or

[Mike23Ua]

I want to heavily stress that just because I want bosses overall health and damage output to have an adjustable slider- Does not also mean I want the game to become too easy... 

there are OTHER WAYS of making the game harder that doesn’t require long drawn out boss fights, I just 2 minutes ago brought one of those up- Something we DONT Have in DST right now... but ALREADY Exists in DS MOBILE. That is the option to spawn into the game with an already reduced maximum health core that can not ever be full healed back up.

Imagine being able to play as Wolfgang, but with the Max health of Maxwell... 

The changes I want aren’t going to Ruin your game, it’s not going to kill your brutal hardcore survival simulator for you, it’s only aimed at making the game more accessible to a larger variety of Audience.

If we had stuff like Reduced overall health, Food won’t heal health Etc... I can enjoy fighting a boss with roughly the same challenge it would’ve had normally.. but I can do such in Half the amount of time it would’ve took normally.

 

[Booklover]

Hello. (Some of you may remember me, hi Mike23Ua :D) I would like to add my opinion here.

I think that a difficulty slider is perfectly fine. As @Shosuko said, if you don't like it then don't use it. A QoL update for the world customization is fine by me.

As for the ongoing argument about the validity of exploits, I'm neutral. I understand why @Well-met would be against using exploits (It can be viewed as a form of cheating or dishonesty) but I also agree with Shosuko that it's okay to use them as long as the developers allow it.

[HereBeJimbo]

Regardless of difficulty settings, people should be able to play the game however they want to play, as long as it's not hurting others. That's why games like Minecraft have succeeded, they've offered various different ways to play the game and they've given you the ability to forge your own path. What's determined as cheesing is up to you, as you can just opt not to use that specific strategy. Complaining about players using a certain strategy, frankly, is goddamn ridiculous. It doesn't affect you at all, why would you complain about it?

That sentiment however doesn't translate well when we're talking about difficulty settings. When developing games, you have (or should have) one goal in mind-- to make the game as fun as possible. Difficulty, a lot of the time, is part of a games identity, like Dark Souls, Sekiro, and yes, Don't Starve/Together. It's a decision the devs have to make, as the direction of the game is entirely up to them. Don't Starve and its various expansions rely on a learning curve, like most rouge-likes. Success is only achieved through trial and error, at least in the devs eyes. It's up to them whether they think adding an easy mode would benefit the game in any way.

[Misuto]

11 hours ago, Well-met said:

probably because nobody speedruns DST or is interested into doing it.

Three weeks ago I broke the world record unseeded ancient guardian kill here: Ancient Guardian

 

 

 

 

One month ago I broke the world record unseeded dragonfly speed run with Warly here: Dragonfly

 

Almost 10 months ago I set the first official all bosses speed run here: https://www.speedrun.com/do_not_starve_together/run/yv3okqez

 

Not to mention several other random speed runs that games have just for fun like butter%.

 

Just because you don't speed run it or care about it, doesn't mean there aren't people out there that do. 

 

Don't try to tell others how to have fun. You play your game the way to want to, and we'll play it the way we want to. It's a game. The only two ways to play DST wrong are if you aren't having fun or are creating so much lag that it crashes the server. 

 

 

[Sweaper]

Yes. It won't have any effect on the servers I play in, but I feel bad for lone players on consoles, the targeting sucks.

[Mike23Ua]

2 hours ago, Misuto said:

Don't try to tell others how to have fun. You play your game the way to want to, and we'll play it the way we want to. 

Exactly this.. I have the option of turning Dragonfly completely off.. but not lowering the skill threshold required in enjoying battling her.

Why? The experts will say because it gives you OP Loot. Doesn’t that slightly justify WHY a less skilled player should be able to more easily obtain their loot then? 
 

Disclaimer: I kill Deerclops every year but until the most recent update that removed her eye from the crafting recipe I just used her eye to ALWAYS build Deerclops Statues.. Why? Because there can only be one Eyebrella per year and it keeps people from fighting over it. Your ALL using Strawhats/Rainhats and Umbrellas are your not getting anything.

But my POINT is that if the Eyebrella is intended to make Summer and Spring EASIER shouldn’t that be reserved for less skilled players who actually NEED their gameplay to be easier?

Meanwhile for people like Canis, the Uncompromising Mode would Spawn a “No-Eyed Deerclops” Which still comes, still tries to wreck your stuff and drops its Statue  crafting Sketch, but DOES NOT drop the eye to allow you to craft Eyebrella to make the game any easier.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

New players forget that veterans were noobs back in the day so we are aware of how difficult is the game for new people

Also, about the no exploits inquisitors. I want to know how did you kill for the fist time deerclops or bearger. I hope you stand in front of him and fight him like a men but i can guess that all players have try to kill those big boys with beefalos/tentacles/etc so idk what the hell are you talking about "only kiting"

[Mike23Ua]

7 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

New players forget that veterans were noobs back in the day so we are aware of how difficult is the game for new people

Also, about the no exploits inquisitors. I want to know how did you kill for the fist time deerclops or bearger. I hope you stand in front of him and fight him like a men but i can guess that all players have try to kill those big boys with beefalos/tentacles/etc so idk what the hell are you talking about "only kiting"

What are you talking about? I kill Deerclops with Abigail, 2 football helmets and a Spear, no healing items, no sanity restoring items, no food items.. just straight up tanking him with spear and Helmets.

Bearger on the other hand... I kite through a forest or blow up with gunpowder’s 

[Mr. Despair]

On 6/11/2020 at 2:38 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I dont really care but seems like some people want to beat the game in few hours when this is a trial and error game. This game is suppose to put you near heart atack so if you can change even more how works the giants people will loose inceptive of learning (even more, remember that 90% of workshop is basically cheating)

People this days just want to win with no effort for that there is a lot of games and for this some people we just get stuck onky playing this. Is where we win always so making the game easier will only increase this toxic behavoid.

Also, rogelike, if you die you learn. There is other kind of games for casuals

Sounds irrelevant, In this game you know the pattern of the mobs/bosses or you don't.

Having more HP doesn't makes the fight harder, it just wastes a bit more of your time.

[glooomy]

1 minute ago, Mr. Despair said:

Sounds irrelevant, In this game you know the pattern of the mobs/bosses or you don't.

Having more HP doesn't makes the fight harder, it just wastes a bit more of your time.

Who are you to say what is a "waste of time" and what is not? I happen to actually enjoy boss fights and don't want them to be over in 1 minute. Where's the fun in that?

[Mr. Despair]

4 minutes ago, reichull said:

Who are you to say what is a "waste of time" and what is not? I happen to actually enjoy boss fights and don't want them to be over in 1 minute. Where's the fun in that?

I guess that's why this being optional would be a good thing.

I don't want them to be over in one minute either with but pressing F and repeating the same movement during 30 minutes to beat Dragonfly is not something that i consider to be challenging or fun, I also have other stuff to do.

Were people complaining about the bosses HP being too low during single-player?

[Minitte]

Yes. I can put all of the bosses to one shot mode =D

[glooomy]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Despair said:

I guess that's why this being optional would be a good thing, i guess.

I don't want them to be over in one minute either with but pressing F and repeating the same movement during 30 minutes to beat Dragonfly is not something that i consider to be challenging or fun, I also have other stuff to do.

Were people complaining about the bosses HP being too low during single-player?

30 minutes for D-Fly?! That is more than 3 in-game days, when has that ever happened? In my opinion almost all boss fights are optional and almost all bosses only need to be defeated once. 

[Mike23Ua]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Despair said:

I guess that's why this being optional would be a good thing.

I don't want them to be over in one minute either with but pressing F and repeating the same movement during 30 minutes to beat Dragonfly is not something that i consider to be challenging or fun, I also have other stuff to do.

Were people complaining about the bosses HP being too low during single-player?

Thank You, Some of us May not have hours to sink into boss fights, and me and my extremely noob friends still want to ENJOY that Content without it feeling like something intended fully only for experts, I have the option of turning the boss completely off, ignoring that it even exists (in the case of Antlion, Firefly) or fighting them using untraditional methods.

I Do not care at all that you guys use a portal set up Winona catapults, use the portal again make op Warly Food, use the portal a third time become Wolfgang and wreck bosses... good on you if you want to go through all that but for some of us we just want a slight challenge that isn’t something that can ALSO be disappointingly accomplished in a matter of minutes (in some cases like Deerclops seconds) by just giving 6 people a football helmet and Hambat and mashing the attack button.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Despair said:

Sounds irrelevant, In this game you know the pattern of the mobs/bosses or you don't.

Having more HP doesn't makes the fight harder, it just wastes a bit more of your time.

so a 1 minute fight is as easy as a 10 minutes fight? then why there is insanity aura per minute, wendy and wes with less damage, hungry, weather, hounds, etc

irrelevant is your argument

14 minutes ago, Mr. Despair said:

Were people complaining about the bosses HP being too low during single-player?

me in hamlet. Optional bosses with 3k hp is a shame and also in rog i dont feel anything even fighting dragonfly when i always fight a 4k deerclops in dst (with his insanity aura per minute)

[Yuuko]

4 minutes ago, reichull said:

30 minutes for D-Fly?! That is more than 3 in-game days, when has that ever happened? In my opinion almost all boss fights are optional and almost all bosses only need to be defeated once. 

I've had dfly take that much time.  It was because it was winter and snowing, and rather than raging she kept returning to spawn lavae over and over again.  I don't recommend fighting her then lol  I almost starved to death without running out of healing items or armor lol

[ArubaroBeefalo]

2 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

 I don't recommend fighting her then lol  I almost starved to death without running out of healing items or armor lol

why? if you can kite her 1 minute you can do it 30 min /sarcasm

 

[glooomy]

32 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Thank You, Some of us May not have hours to sink into boss fights, and me and my extremely noob friends still want to ENJOY that Content without it feeling like something intended fully only for experts, I have the option of turning the boss completely off, ignoring that it even exists (in the case of Antlion, Firefly) or fighting them using untraditional methods.

I Do not care at all that you guys use a portal set up Winona catapults, use the portal again make op Warly Food, use the portal a third time become Wolfgang and wreck bosses... good on you if you want to go through all that but for some of us we just want a slight challenge that isn’t something that can ALSO be disappointingly accomplished in a matter of minutes (in some cases like Deerclops seconds) by just giving 6 people a football helmet and Hambat and mashing the attack button.

But but but it really isn't intended "fully only for experts" and when you learn and get better at the game you will see exactly what everyone is talking about. Klei could not make the basics of this game any easier for us than they already have without taking away the "survival in the constant" aspect, there is definitely a learning curve (this goes for any game) but once you learn, everything that once seemed like a huge threat, no longer is. Almost all bosses are optional, majority of the life threatening things in this game are avoidable. Klei has given us the means to play this game with or without bosses, with or without the "harsh" seasons, with or without mechanics we think are a nuisance. And yet you still think we need it easier because you and your friends are struggling to get better at the game? You're feeling like you're missing out on content because you're not good enough at the game yet and instead of actually trying, you want Klei to have the option to make it even easier for you so that you can actually experience the game properly. Everyone struggled, everyone had to start somewhere and learn the game. Everyone who has felt the way you do at the moment actually took the time to try over and over and over again until they were able to do it. You want more of a challenge?! Do everything without armor or heals. You want less of a challenge? Get better at the game.

[Mr. Despair]

24 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

so a 1 minute fight is as easy as a 10 minutes fight? then why there is insanity aura per minute, wendy and wes with less damage, hungry, weather, hounds, etc

Where did i said that they should make them one minute long? and i would say that all of these barely make a difference in the fight.

[Mike23Ua]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Despair said:

Where did i said that they should make them one minute long? and i would say that all of these barely make a difference in the fight.

It’s because they don’t seem to understand that other inner changes to the game can make that content more enjoyable/still challenging... but in half the time it takes currently.

Lets try putting it into a different perspective- As a Solo player a lot of preparation and setup goes into fighting a enormously high health boss, knowing full well that your fighting something ALONE that’s intended for Multiple people to fight.

Thats The SOLO Mindset right? Doesn’t matter how skilled or Unskilled at the game you are that bottom line is the hard facts.

Now let’s discuss the Multiplayer perspective- You go in fighting the same boss, with the same health as you would Solo but with significantly less Setup and preparation Required in a fight that takes Significantly less time to complete.. Correct?

again doesn’t matter how skilled or unskilled you are.. give everyone Wigfrid Helmets and a Hambat smash attack till it’s Dead. Those are the facts.

The game fails to have a Middle ground- There’s no in between compromise, you either gather a team and kill something laughably quick or you play alone and take a lot longer for setup and prep, OR You can Ignore/Turn them off altogether.

NOW Do you guys see my point of View?

Edit: Also let’s discuss boss loot shall we? What does the loot bosses drop actually DO? Do they drop some part to a Key like the old Resident Evil Games where you need to gather the colored Key Cards to progress to harder areas of the game?

No... rather hilariously the bosses in this game drop items that make staying alive significantly easier. 
 

I would TOTALLY Understand and accept why Dragonfly can’t have reduced Health if Killing it meant Dragonfly’s invaded the world as a common enemy type afterward... but this AINT a game designed like that.. and Killing Deerclops doesn’t suddenly make them spawn as common enemies from that point forward... instead they drop tools to further increase your odds of staying alive.

[Rinkusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Despair said:

Sounds irrelevant, In this game you know the pattern of the mobs/bosses or you don't.

Having more HP doesn't makes the fight harder, it just wastes a bit more of your time.

Especially with bosses like the Bee Queen, Fuelweaver, Klaus, Crab King, etc. that have phases and resource-dependent mechanics, HP absolutely does affect the difficulty of the fight, even if you ignore mental endurance. 

I'm personally against having a slider that changes something as fundamental as boss stats. There is such a thing as too much freedom, and rules that restrict those freedoms are part of any great game. That being said, as someone who's not a game designer nor has any professional understanding of game-design nuances, I don't really know where to draw the line between too much and too little freedom for a sandbox game like DST. 

[ShadowDuelist]

Yes if it goes both ways.

If you want an easier experience you decrease the HP and damage, if you want the vanilla experience you don't touch a thing, and if you feel the game is "too easy" and need a harder experience, you increase the HP and damage. It could apply to all mobs as well.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

remember also that when you play solo all of the resources or loot are for you so all volt goat horns for you, all moose feather for you, all the food for you, all the rocks, all the bee queen crowns, jelly beans, etc  so working a little to get deerclops eyes, scales or beequeen crowns that is guarantee for you with all the resorces of the world is not a big deal

also if i will to fight i prefer a long fight not a 1 minute fight every 20 or 30 days like hamlet

1 minute ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Yes if it goes both ways.

If you want an easier experience you decrease the HP and damage, if you want the vanilla experience you don't touch a thing, and if you feel the game is "too easy" and need a harder experience, you increase the HP and damage. It could apply to all mobs as well.

actually what i think this game lacks is for a real boss experience when you are more than 2. Things like fw drops a lot his difficulty for each player in the fight