Sliders for boss HP/DMG

[Mike23Ua]

I wanted something like this: in the options menu you have the option of More Bearger, Less Bearger or None.. I have Absolutely no idea what the More and Less functions do... they don’t seem to do anything at all.. but what they SHOULD do is allow me to toggle rather Bearger has More or Less overall Health.

Dragonfly makes a colossal jump from 2,750 Hp in Solo DS to 27,500 Hp in DST..

 

[ArubaroBeefalo]

33 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I wanted something like this: in the options menu you have the option of More Bearger, Less Bearger or None.. I have Absolutely no idea what the More and Less functions do... they don’t seem to do anything at all.. but what they SHOULD do is allow me to toggle rather Bearger has More or Less overall Health.

Dragonfly makes a colossal jump from 2,750 Hp in Solo DS to 27,500 Hp in DST..

 

in ds she comes to you in summer meanwhile in dst you have all the time of the world to prepare for the fight. Instead you have antlion who has 6000hp and doesnt come to your base to fight you (and you dont need to kill him to stop his sinkholes)

 

edit: and i forget to mention how good is dst dragonfly loot. just for getting 1-2 greem gems is worth the ~2 days fight

[Mike23Ua]

You also have the option to disable Fireflys biome so it doesn’t spawn into your world at all... I’m pretty sure the “She invaded your base in Summer thing” Should apply there?

[dirtee tuk Os]

It's a no from me, a nobody anyway lol

I do think though, that while there are a few GOOD reasons to implement this, once it has been used, there will be no going back for many, and ultimately, this will ruin the whole point of Giants. 

They are there to F sh!t up, and it does take skill, I don't care what anyone says about it being the same thing over again for 20 min, to kill them. One wrong move could be the end for you.

There are so many ways to make the game easier, do you really need any more?

 

*also, I'm pretty sure there is a mod that scales Giant health

[Dunk Mujunk]

It has been a busy couple days for me unfortunately, I would have liked to take part in this discussion.

I'm obviously a no on sliders.

My main issue with hp/dmg sliders is that Klei simply has better things they could be doing with their time. We are smack in the middle of a pretty sizable string of updates. On top of that, plenty of people have taken issue with various pieces of the updates.

Let Klei work on the updates instead of playing around with something that was decided on during beta/internal testing.

In relation to exploits/cheese/glitches. Those words just got thrown around a lot over these 3 pages.

We can throw out the world "glitch" completely I think. To me, a glitch would be something that the devs absolutely positively did not want in game, and it would be something that would pretty much be immediately removed. I'd imagine we can all agree on at least this. To my knowledge (correct me if i'm wrong) there are no true "glitches" currently active in DST that seriously effect boss fights.

That leaves exploits/cheese, which is the same thing. 

On the exploit front, I can't buy into that sentiment. DST and its various bosses have been around for quite a while now. If there was something going on that Klei didn't like I would imagine it would have been removed by now. Who knows, maybe some things will be removed in the future, but where is the line for exploits?

If, for example, walling off DragonFly is an exploit, ok. What about showing up to the fight with 20 Honey Poultices and 5 Battle Helms and straight tanking (for the record I do both these things)? What about using Wolfgang and a stack of Volt Goat Chaud-Froid? What about using Winonnas catapults? What about anything involving gunpowder?

All of these things were placed into the game, and seeing as how they haven't been removed I think it is fair to say they are working as intended. Whether you agree or not, no current methods are a "ding, I win" button. They take planning, preparation, and knowledge. As opposed to simply decreasing the HP/DMG flat out.

And in all honesty, if you want a decrease in boss hp, run Wolfgang. If you want a decrease in boss dmg, wear armor. If you don't want to deal with the boss, turn it off. Problem solved. If you want the loot, tough. Use the methods provided. 

But those are exploits? So that justifies a slider that allows you to instantly cut the hp/dmg of bosses? And that wouldn't be an exploit? Why? Because Klei sanctioned it?

Well they've sanctioned all the current active methods as well. And those methods provide you with a difficulty slider of sorts. Built right into the game. They're actually part of the game.

What about multiplying scales? Is that an exploit? Or shroom skins? Or all of the various non combat related farms? 

At this point sh*t gets really grey and it gets easier to say things like "its an uncompromising survival game, food should be hard to come by, laying down 15 traps over rabbit holes is an exploit" (just an example).

If you want to classify exploits as simply manipulating boss' pathing, that makes the flingo/toad method acceptable right? Or the bunnyman/beequeen method? Gunpowder vs whatever you can kill with gunpowder? Using frog rain to kill moose goose?

The difference between everything there is and a slider is the slider is not in game, and Klei isn't still trying to hit the sweet spot for old content balance. That part is done, it has been hit. Subliminal sliders exist already, from the character you pick, to the equipment you use, to the method you use.

And if you hate the current "exploits" but want a difficulty slider.......??? For all that, drop this slider nonsense, get rid of all the "exploits", limit the amount of healing, food, armor, and weapon items allowed to exist in the world at one time, and give all characters the same damage.

[Mike23Ua]

Then please explain to me why there is an option for More or Less Bearger..?

what does that even do?!?! It doesn’t do what I Wanted it to do and drop or Increase it’s health for example..

Also- Klei’s Just recently did the May QoL update, because they needed more time to get the Walter update completed, But they’ve heard people wanting more QoL updates released alongside their future content updates.

So explain to me why you wouldn’t consider this a Quality of Life Update? Being able to scale your enemies to have MORE or LESS health.

Forget the whole it requires skill to play this game and if you haven’t got skill don’t play blah blah mumbo jumbo and seriously take it under consideration.. how is giving People more freedom over the settings they setup for THEIR WORLD going to Effect YOU And YOUR WORLD?

Personally I want more than just A health slider I want extra toggles alongside other parts of the game.

Such as for example: Can food Heal players? Yes/No/Random

Butterflies Restore Health & Hunger? Only Hunger, Only Health, Purely Cosmetic Only.

This whole dang menu full of things you toggle on/off/more or less, let’s you set this game up to be as easy or as hard as you personally WANT it to be.

Feel like using tons of Ice as a Crockpot filler is too easy? Turn the Icebergs off.. 

Absolutely hate hound waves? Turn those to less or off too.

Want to play the game as Wolfgang but with reduced overall max health? Well guess what on the mobile version of DS YOU CAN.

The TL:DR- This menu full of glorious options you can toggle on and off is Klei’s golden gate opportunity to keep DST alive and fresh as GTA ONLINE.

You may not agree with me on Health sliders just for whatever reason... but can we all just agree that more toggle options in general can NEVER Be a BAD Thing?

Maybe I want to play as Wolfgang but with the same max overall health as Maxwell or Wes.. MAYBE I want to NOT have to pick to play as Wormwood to get that fun challenge of eating food not healing me.

yes.. yes of course you can always just play on PC and use Mods, but with this menu of beautiful things you can toggle more or less or on and off.. why should you have to?

 

[Yuuko]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Then please explain to me why there is an option for More or Less Bearger..?

what does that even do?!?! It doesn’t do what I Wanted it to do and drop or Increase it’s health for example..

Pretty sure more and less bearger effect its spawn rate.  It will spawn more or less beargers based on your setting.  If you set it to less you may not get 1 every autumn, if you set it to more you will get it more than once per autumn.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

 

As usually you are making opinions and suggestions whitout knowing what are you talking about. You are not complaining about raid bosses health (which i can find logical) you are complaining about bearger and deerclops health (i will ignore you commmet about dragon fly because has no sense) which are balanced between ds to dst. They got nerf his atack patter, his earth shake and the aoe of effect so they have a little more hp but you can hit them more often and is easier to kite them since you have more time between attacks.

You said that you killed bearger with gunpowder and deerclops with spears. Why dont try raid bosses so you can talk if they have too much or not too much hp? Klei listens to the community but the community needs to know what are they talking about before making opinions or you can make klei doing bad decision just because you wanna have discussions even if you dont even experiment by yourself what are you talking about and you complain just about bosses that are perfectly balanced (if you think bearger is spooky try single player you cant even see what is happening im the screen)

And now you will start with your 'i dont like to fight bosses i want a survival experience with cathastrophes blablabla' but this is the sequel of a fame call reing of GIANTS

 

Edit: i just remember that even moose goose is easier in dst than in ds. Her childer dont let you atack, they recover so fast from the spinning (ididnt expect that and i almost die in my hamler world when in dst i kill every moose goose every spring without any healing so, dst moosegoose is a pussy). And antlon is hundered of times easier than dragonfly so for someone who doesnt complain about raid bosses your complains has no sense for being about seasonal bosses and as someone that always says that he doesnt care about fighting bosses (what a coincidence) idk why you complain. You dont need to fight any seasonal boss and raid bosses are optional.

 

[fimmatek]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You may not agree with me on Health sliders just for whatever reason... but can we all just agree that more toggle options in general can NEVER Be a BAD Thing?

Imagine how long the setting page for a new world would become. It'd be more complicated to get an overview than in a general software's terms and conditions document...

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Want to play the game as Wolfgang but with reduced overall max health? Well guess what on the mobile version of DS YOU CAN.

Well guess whan, you can do that on the PC version as well

4 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

yes.. yes of course you can always just play on PC and use Mods, but with this menu of beautiful things you can toggle more or less or on and off.. why should you have to?

Maybe to let Klei work on actual content instead of things that can mostly already be achieved with self-made challenges or mods. If you think butterfly wings make the game too easy, don't eat them. 

I'm not against more settings options in general, they are indeed welcome, but the level of customizability youÍ're asking for is just extreme and would be a huge work from Klei with far-less-huge impact on the game. Because then there should be a settings option/scaling not only for the butterfly wings, but also for pumpkins, and eggs, and dragonfruits, and petals, and then crockpot food too, and then the tent's (and other sleeping items') hunger and sanity values too, oh, and if you can change a character's health, you should be able to change their sanity and hunger too, but why not their strengh too, and why not their sanity modifiers or their hunger drain or building speed or their unique crafting tabs or ... 

 

All right, back to the topic of scaling bosses.

6 hours ago, Dunk Mujunk said:

I'm obviously a no on sliders.

My main issue with hp/dmg sliders is that Klei simply has better things they could be doing with their time.

This is my opinion as well. I'm not really against it... but imo the game really doesn't need to get easier. Being able to kill bosses only takes time to learn the game, and everyone actually interested in DST will eventually get to the point where they'll be able to do that. Just play the game and slowly but surely you'll get to that level.

Claiming that bosses make some content unavailable for beginners is just ridiculous. Are players supposed to get everything on their first go? In a game with a hard learning curve by design that was built around exploration and learning by trial and error?

[Mike23Ua]

You guys no what no sweat mode is? I mean everything you’ve brought up can be counter argued just because THAT Exists..

Yes DST is meant to be a uncompromising game franchise, and yes it needs more of that in a large variety of ways.. but Klei sees that their profit is in making the game Easier and more noob friendly and more skins!

If you don’t believe me just go right now to goggle and type in DST News. Every game review site, every discussion forum they’re all talking about how fun the upcoming Walter sounds.

but absolutely NO ONE talked about how Mays QoL update added a Random option to the Weather toggle menu for truly randomized weather seasons & weather lengths.

Something I personally am having a blast with... is Overlooked, because it doesn’t appeal to the casuals that Klei are aiming at.

I could talk about how Carrat Racing while cute and interesting offered up nothing but casual fun.. They talk about THAT, they Talk about No Sweat Mode, They DO NOT Talk about how a game that’s already plenty challenging for them becomes even more challenging.

You want this franchise to thrive and survive like it’s Minecraft... yet you don’t want to even consider making the game more accessible to a broader audience of gamers.

This is pretty much all I’ve got left to say on the subject cause at this point I’m just beating a dead horse.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

but absolutely NO ONE talked about how Mays QoL update added a Random option to the Weather toggle menu for truly randomized weather seasons & weather lengths.

As i know since always (rog has it too and is older) you can change the weather. I have played in games with weather in random years ago...

[Yuuko]

51 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

As i know since always (rog has it too and is older) you can change the weather. I have played in games with weather in random years ago...

Previous worldgen setting Seasons: Random only selected the random length at the start of the world.  They remained static after.  The new setting keeps randomizing length each season change.

[ArubaroBeefalo]

6 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

Previous worldgen setting Seasons: Random only selected the random length at the start of the world.  They remained static after.  The new setting keeps randomizing length each season change.

So before if you get a 5 days autumn all the years will have an autumn with 5 days? Glad to hear that changes, is one of the settings that i like the most

[Dunk Mujunk]

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Forget the whole it requires skill to play this game and if you haven’t got skill don’t play blah blah mumbo jumbo

No one is saying that. You are making stuff up again.

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Well guess what on the mobile version of DS YOU CAN.

You've just solved your own problem.

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The TL:DR- This menu full of glorious options you can toggle on and off is Klei’s golden gate opportunity to keep DST alive and fresh as GTA ONLINE.

DST is alive and fresh, and has been so. They haven't embarked on what looks like will be over 2 years worth of substantial content updates because the game is dying. They did it because the game is insanely healthy.

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

You may not agree with me on Health sliders just for whatever reason... but can we all just agree that more toggle options in general can NEVER Be a BAD Thing?

More isn't always better. The whole quality over quantity thing.

10 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Maybe I want to play as Wolfgang but with the same max overall health as Maxwell or Wes.. MAYBE I want to NOT have to pick to play as Wormwood to get that fun challenge of eating food not healing me.

But you don't. You want bosses with less health and damage output.

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You guys no what no sweat mode is? I mean everything you’ve brought up can be counter argued just because THAT Exists..

From what i'm seeing this is only available on the mobile version/as a mod on PC? Am I reading that right? Per the wiki-

No-Sweat Mode

No-Sweat mode is a preset only available in the Reign of Giants DLC. It is meant for less experienced players. Many features can be modified or even turned off, such as Hunger, Freezing, and attacks from Charlie. No-Sweat Mode is available both for the Apple and Android version of the game.

Changes made in No-Sweat Mode

• The player takes 35% less damage.
• Sanity loss during Dusk and Night is -2.5/minute.
• Hunger drains slower, and when dying of hunger, Health is lost at 0.5/sec. Health will only drain to 25% of the player's total health.
• When Woodie is in Werebeaver form, he does 50% more damage and the log meter drains slower.
• The Player respawns at the Compromising Statue after dying instead of the world being deleted.
• No effects from low Sanity. The Nightmare Amulet and Nightmare Lights still spawn Shadow Creatures.
• No attacks from Charlie, the brightness appears the same as when on a full moon, but Pigs do not turn into Werepigs, Glommer does not spawn, etc.
• No death by Freezing.
• Deerclops and Summer (Reign of Giants) are automatically set to "None".
• Hound Attacks are automatically set to "Less".
• Naturally spawning Carrots are automatically set to "More".
• Trees and other plants grow faster.

So you want all of that on top of reduced boss HP/DMG? 

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Yes DST is meant to be a uncompromising game franchise, and yes it needs more of that in a large variety of ways.. 

You seem to consistently claim it needs less of that.

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

but Klei sees that their profit is in making the game Easier and more noob friendly and more skins!

This is a false, made up statement. They haven't made it easier, you yourself have taken issue with the difficulty of boat operation, the new bosses etc.

And of course there is profit in the skins, and i'd guess a bulk of the skin sales are from long time players. Somehow I don't see new players being interested in different skins for say the Shadow Manipulator or Thulicite Club. 

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

If you don’t believe me just go right now to goggle and type in DST News. Every game review site, every discussion forum they’re all talking about how fun the upcoming Walter sounds.

but absolutely NO ONE talked about how Mays QoL update added a Random option to the Weather toggle menu for truly randomized weather seasons & weather lengths.

Because a new character is far more flashy and interesting than a single option in the World Gen menu.

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Something I personally am having a blast with... is Overlooked, because it doesn’t appeal to the casuals that Klei are aiming at.

Where are you getting your information that Klei is targeting casuals? More false, made up statements.

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I could talk about how Carrat Racing while cute and interesting offered up nothing but casual fun..

And I could talk about how when YotC was active it was all you personally could think or talk about. You absolutely loved it. You requisitioned a meme to celebrate the fact it lasted longer than you thought it would.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this of course, but you can't claim now that you feel it only offered casual fun. You are contradicting yourself yet again.

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

You want this franchise to thrive and survive like it’s Minecraft... yet you don’t want to even consider making the game more accessible to a broader audience of gamers.

DST is thriving, and its doing far more than surviving. And literally no one other than you has brought up Minecraft. Or Borderlands, or Ark, or any of the other games you bring up on an hourly basis.

If you want to draw in new players and have them stay, making the game easy is not the way to do it. Where does it end? Ok for example you want Toad to be easier. Well it takes a bit of work to actually GET to where Toad is. Do we dumb that down too? Put Toad in the overworld so new players don't need to go through the caves? What if spears and meatballs aren't enough for new players to beat an overworld Toad with reduced health? Do you make it easier to obtain Dark Swords or Thulicite Clubs? And what do we do if Klei follows your past suggestion that all bosses should seek you out and attack you (because back then you claimed the game was to easy, the bosses weren't interesting, and you had no reason to fight them)? 

Like buying a spoiled child everything it wants, chasing new players (by making the game easier and easier) will not increase the long term player base. They will play for a week or so and move on, and thats the best case scenario. Klei has found their target audience and is pursuing them more or less appropriately. DST is a niche game, an old niche game at that. It is highly unlikely there will ever be large numbers of new downloads/purchases. I would guess that Klei is making their money from DST off of post game purchase items. To put their money making player base on the back burner to pursue people who simply aren't interested in the game to begin with would be silly.