Potatoes are the Best

[-Variant]

4 hours ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

Only problem is there is not a way to make more bull kelp stalks aside from pushing them in with a boat, though in most pubs the 20+ stalks on the island is more than enough.

 

Well, for the small price of causing near eternal suffering to a perfectly innocent Gnarwail, you can use their horns/tooth to move Bull kelps around.
Really useful for those large clumps of Kelp, too.
 

Spoiler

 

[me real life]

21 minutes ago, CameoAppearance said:

I'm noticing an undercurrent in this debate of "if something isn't optimal, you should never do it ever, instead you should find the objectively optimal action and do that every single time"

That's a problem with DS/T debates in general, honestly. Some people play DST by finding out the absolute most efficient way to do things, then considering everything else useless and not worth anyone's time. It's the same reason we get threads like "siesta lean-tos and ice staffs are useless". Some people just stick to playing the exact same way with the same few items, and anything else is objectively worse to them. It's weird how commonly this sandbox game is viewed so... un-sandbox-like.

[Booklover]

4 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

That's a problem with DS/T debates in general, honestly. Some people play DST by finding out the absolute most efficient way to do things, then considering everything else useless and not worth anyone's time. It's the same reason we get threads like "siesta lean-tos and ice staffs are useless". Some people just stick to playing the exact same way with the same few items, and anything else is objectively worse to them. It's weird how commonly this sandbox game is viewed so... un-sandbox-like.

Meta and stuff.

For example, people are more likely to diss you for choosing Wes than Wolfgang or the Trio because they prefer those three. I mean, I have even been kicked out of servers simply because I chose Willow, or any not very liked character. Seriously?

Some people are competitive and unfortunately they seem to find DST more than any other game. People like Edgy Rick (Thank God that's gone), sometimes Lakurion (I still like Maxwell don't kill me) and many others like Tier Listing and etc. Heck, even *I* do it too. Although I don't see characters the same way as other Tier Listers do. I see them as flowers XD.

Anyways, games like DST were already competitive when characters like Wickerbottom and Wolfgang was added. People start throwing in their two cents and making a cult for the Trio and rejecting others.

So what can we do? Sadly nothing. The only one who has the power to *snap* and balance everything is the almighty Klei. The reworks are a huge step in the path of possibly changing DST from competitive to fun. I'm getting excited just from thinking about the reworks! I also hope that they will start reworking and balancing items. Things like hambats are quite strong and easy to get. 

[Sweaper]

6 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

That's a problem with DS/T debates in general, honestly. Some people play DST by finding out the absolute most efficient way to do things, then considering everything else useless and not worth anyone's time. It's the same reason we get threads like "siesta lean-tos and ice staffs are useless". Some people just stick to playing the exact same way with the same few items, and anything else is objectively worse to them. It's weird how commonly this sandbox game is viewed so... un-sandbox-like.

I didn't have a problem with the original post, but then OP argued with someone about farming being better than honey and later better than other stuff. One thing is noticing a good thing about an item, another is saying x is better (or the best) than y by ignoring a lot of cons of x, that's when a lot of people jumped in to say otherwise and with a good reason for that.

[Misuto]

8 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

Regarding your math, it seems like you disregarded Wickerbottom's Horticulture book

I did disregard applied horticulture because you were talking about Wormwood. 

 

When playing optimally, Wickerbottom does not in any way shape or form benefit from having wormwood. Literally any second player as any character is equally good as an assistant for her though she functions near optimally while solo. (Source: rigorous on stream testing when Wormwood came to DST, here's just one example I could find))

 

It's very common that people over-estimate the contribution that wormwood makes towards crop production because he doesn't need the farm plots, but the number of farm plots is not the bottleneck as Wickerbottom can farm all the required materials with ease (rocks from stonefruit tree lure farms ((which would by itself would already solo feed a server of 20 but the discussion is about farming not how broken stonefruits are with Wickerbottom)), grass from grass lure farms, and manure from converted lightbulb lure farms by means of pigs.) For reference, I spent 35 in game days to farm 320 dragon pies, 80 powder cakes, and 120 peppers as solo Wickerbottom with just 48 farms and character changed and cooked them as Warly in that time frame. So that was 520 crops + cook time. If they had all been dragon fruit instead that would have been  27 days of food for 19 players (as I would have stayed fed on seeds alone), not quite enough by myself solo, but if you had a second Wickerbottom doing the same then suddenly that is 57 days of food for the remaining 18 players. More than enough food to feed the server with a lot of profit to be saved for emergencies or used as healing.

 

The bottle neck is just feeding the bird all the crops, any second character could help feed a bird, and by not limiting yourself to just wormwood planting, a second player using farm plots would also aid in helping you plant the crops, making it faster than Wormwood + Wickerbottom. But really, a Wickerbottom in full on try-hard mode could very easily solo do this job. Furthermore, crops planted in the ground begin spoiling where as those in farm plots do not. So if you do plant say 200 crops, the 200th that you pick will be significantly less fresh than the first. This seems trivial but does add up where as farm plots work the opposite way, the last crop you pick is continuing to freshen up your stack as it's 100% freshness added on. 

 

Wormwood's contribution is sadly trivial if you have Wickerbottom as he would only allow you to save a few readings of the book but would ultimately slow you down time wise and time > manure + reeds + seeds. So for the sake of discussion I chose to ignore her, because she invalidates the need of Wormwood at all and since you have a Wickerbottom...

 

Why not simply use stone fruits though? It's an absurdly powerful food source that replicates itself over time, grows during winter, and the new trees you get from sprouts never even need to be fertilized. Planted in the cave and you're also immune to summer, giving you a year round food source that you don't need to bundle or gift wrap to keep at 100% freshness. 

 

If it's not food value you want but rather hp, then a catapult bunny farm can be set up to farm the materials for both food (carrots and meat) and healing by way of pierogis. It takes only 35 hutches to feed 20 normal hunger drain players. Any more is profit that can be stored up for healing and such. A further benefit of using a bunny farm like this is that the puffs can be traded for 2 gold, giving you a good gold income to help with life giving amulets as if you have 20 players that is also going to be a struggle. Combo with varg farms for red gems in the hot seasons + tons of monster meat. Or, going back to that bee box design I shared, 160 honey in 4 minutes also means up to 80 honey poultices, a solid, easy to farm, and oft forgotten way of healing. Since it never spoils it also does not require bundling wraps or gift wraps. 

 

I do agree with you that people overvalue dragonfruits. This leads to people often wasting great random crops that they get when they use farms or play with a Wormwood in their game such as eggplants giving 25 food cooked and uncooked (same as a cooked potato but doesn't have to be cooked unless you need the 20 healing) and pumpkins (giving a solid 37.5 food on their own.) Potatoes are fine, but they necessitate stopping and cooking them before you eat them, or cooking them early and lowering their spoilage time to just 6 days. Even in a fun game where the goal is to just use crops, I'd put potatoes slightly above average crop, behind eggplants, pumpkins, dragon fruits, corn, and slightly above pomegranate. 

 

Also as some discussion has come out in this topic create a strawman argument "if something isn't optimized don't bother doing it." To clarify, this is a game, the only way to play it wrong is to play it in a way such that you are not having fun. But the topic is titled "potatoes are the best," not "potatoes are fun and pretty good too!" therefore the conversation will steer towards optimizations and comparisons by the nature of the on-topic discussion. 

 

 

[Rinkusan]

9 hours ago, CameoAppearance said:

I'm noticing an undercurrent in this debate of "if something isn't optimal, you should never do it ever, instead you should find the objectively optimal action and do that every single time", and that baffles me. It's good to have a variety of options, including some that are suboptimal for mass farming and only shine in the early game or when you're dealing with specific other problems at the same time or for a certain playstyle. You shouldn't have to be able to feed two dozen simultaneously-active people entirely on potato-based foods in order for maintaining access to potatoes to be deemed worthwhile. And when I say "maintaining access to potatoes", I mean something potentially as low-effort as saving a handful of potato seeds in your base's storage and then when you want a potato handing them over to a Wormwood if one's handy or planting them in the rows of barely-used farm plots every megabase seems to have despite the inefficiency of farm plots as a food source.

I agree with the argument here, but I think that the premise is a misrepresentation of this thread. I can't recall anyone in this thread outright saying that "you should never do" a potato farm or make farm plots period. 

This thread was arguing that "potatoes are the best" wormwood crop, and I think there's absolutely nothing wrong that just like how there's nothing wrong with arguing that honey farms are better. I see no issue with figuring out which methods in general are optimal and which aren't just like how there isn't anything wrong with playing a challenge character like Wes or an "optimal" character like Wickerbottom. There is a huge difference between theorycrafting/experimenting with the most optimal methods and forcing other people to do those optimal methods.

1 hour ago, Misuto said:

It's very common that people over-estimate the contribution that wormwood makes towards crop production because he doesn't need the farm plots, but the number of farm plots is not the bottleneck as Wickerbottom can farm all the required materials with ease (rocks from stonefruit tree lure farms ((which would by itself would already solo feed a server of 20 but the discussion is about farming not how broken stonefruits are with Wickerbottom)), grass from grass lure farms, and manure from converted lightbulb lure farms by means of pigs.) For reference, I spent 35 in game days to farm 320 dragon pies, 80 powder cakes, and 120 peppers as solo Wickerbottom with just 48 farms and character changed and cooked them as Warly in that time frame. So that was 520 crops + cook time. If they had all been dragon fruit instead that would have been  27 days of food for 19 players (as I would have stayed fed on seeds alone), not quite enough by myself solo, but if you had a second Wickerbottom doing the same then suddenly that is 57 days of food for the remaining 18 players. More than enough food to feed the server with a lot of profit to be saved for emergencies or used as healing.

In this scenario, you absolutely do have to factor in the time and resource costs of farm plots. If you and your partner can't make those over-48 farm plots several days before the first winter, then you've already failed the objective.

Wormwood bypasses the need for even a single farm plot altogether let alone 48+ farm plots, and even if we're only considering the end game (which contradicts the scenario I presented), his crops take significantly less space than a farm plot, meaning not only less Horticulture reads but less flingomatics and less planting/harvesting time as well.

 

[Rinkusan]

2 hours ago, Misuto said:

Why not simply use stone fruits though? It's an absurdly powerful food source that replicates itself over time, grows during winter, and the new trees you get from sprouts never even need to be fertilized. Planted in the cave and you're also immune to summer, giving you a year round food source that you don't need to bundle or gift wrap to keep at 100% freshness. 

For the longest time, I viewed avocadoes as the absolute best food source in the game because of its infinite shelf life, winter growth, veggie-filler status for pierogies, and the disease immunity/non-fertilizability from the native bushes you can grow with the sprouts; I even mentioned them in the OP. Unfortunately, I've learned throughout my time on public servers that sanity is just as important as the other 2 stats. At 0 sanity, the average player will die, even with armor, and if other players nearby are insane too, that just makes it so much worse.

Avocadoes don't have a specific sanity recipe, at least not one that I could find. Even if you had a gigantic 500-native-stone-fruit-bush farm, you still wouldn't be able to keep those 18 players from dying unless there's an avocado-sanity recipe that I'm not aware of. 

[Sweaper]

7 minutes ago, Rinkusan said:

For the longest time, I viewed avocadoes as the absolute best food source in the game because of its infinite shelf life, winter growth, veggie-filler status for pierogies, and the disease immunity/non-fertilizability from the native bushes you can grow with the sprouts; I even mentioned them in the OP. Unfortunately, I've learned throughout my time on public servers that sanity is just as important as the other 2 stats. At 0 sanity, the average player will die, even with armor, and if other players nearby are insane too, that just makes it so much worse.

Avocadoes don't have a specific sanity recipe, at least not one that I could find. Even if you had a gigantic 500-native-stone-fruit-bush farm, you still wouldn't be able to keep those 18 players from dying unless there's an avocado-sanity recipe that I'm not aware of. 

The average player are good enough to get grass and make a straw roll and maybe silk for tent and top hat.

[Booklover]

7 hours ago, Misuto said:

Oh god look at the amount of garlic 

[Misuto]

9 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

Unfortunately, I've learned throughout my time on public servers that sanity is just as important as the other 2 stats.

If sanity is the issue, then Wormwood's biggest contribution by a mile is his ability to keep mushroom planters growing. For the cost of a single tent he can farm 35 living logs. Thus, with a single tent wormwood can produce 420 mushrooms without spores as each log gives 4 growth cycles and each growth cycle net gains 3 mushrooms. This could combo with Wicker if needed and when grown in the caves function year round. Mushrooms are and always have been Wormwood's greatest "crop". If he gets a fun cap for either green and blue he can nearly double this efficiency at the cost of more silk, so evolve the strategy based on what the other 19 players are contributing. 

 

Furthermore, you have 19 other people in the game, so surely someone can be out picking grass and twigs. So, that bunny farm can be expanded to have drying racks near it, giving you a better and higher shelf life sanity solution than fancy potatoes and still works in winter. Plus having the racks gives a good reason to move the kelp fronds as they dry quickly (2 minutes real time) and mainly heal sanity for those that need it.

 

Or, that honey farm already produces taffy. It's weird how well that math works out, but that design I sent you actually produces at a minimum 20 days of food per 4 minute work session which is 1 day of food for 20 people. While it may not work in winter, it is scaleable as you build how ever many clones of that at any place in your worlds, including in the caves.

 

So it may be true that farm plots, bee boxes, and bunny hutches have a non-zero set up time, this is largely a non-issue as you do have 20 people playing in this hypothetical game. In this situation it can be expected that different people are preforming different jobs and gathering/farming useful materials. A few people farming grass (aided by a wickerbottom once some amount is relocated), a Woodie getting the stone fruit trees and kelp fronds from the islands, a couple of people getting light bulbs and feeding them to werepigs, you could very easily have any type of farm set up well before winter with even just a handful of players in the game working together on it. 

 

 

Maybe I'm not grasping the point of the topic, but I'd still never waste time on Wormwood seriously farming crops, his planting perk, while super fun and thematic, just falls short number-wise from any other food production method. Even when I mained solo Wormwood I found crops to just be a waste and began to just see seeds as a quick 10 sanity where as mushroom planters were the dream. Lightbulbs can with nearly no production time be turned into both manure and rot (by werepigs and toadstool respectively), living logs can be farms with any source of healing (tents being preferred as it is 2hp/s), and again, they grow year round, can be expanded to meet your group sizes need, don't begin spoiling the instant they finish growing, can combo with wickerbottom, and satisfy the food, health, and sanity needs for a team. 

[Canis]

6 hours ago, Booklover said:

Oh god look at the amount of garlic 

*salivates in Italian*

[Rinkusan]

18 hours ago, Sweaper said:

I didn't have a problem with the original post, but then OP argued with someone about farming being better than honey and later better than other stuff. One thing is noticing a good thing about an item, another is saying x is better (or the best) than y by ignoring a lot of cons of x, that's when a lot of people jumped in to say otherwise and with a good reason for that.

Could you point out where and how I've been "ignoring a lot of cons of x" in this thread?

It seems like you're implying that you have a problem with the discussion that followed after my OP. If nerdy conversations about the benefits and shortcomings of certain methods bothers you, then this thread might not be your cup of tea. 

16 hours ago, Misuto said:

Also as some discussion has come out in this topic create a strawman argument "if something isn't optimized don't bother doing it." To clarify, this is a game, the only way to play it wrong is to play it in a way such that you are not having fun. But the topic is titled "potatoes are the best," not "potatoes are fun and pretty good too!" therefore the conversation will steer towards optimizations and comparisons by the nature of the on-topic discussion. 

Absolutely; the point of this discussion is to compare and optimize, not shame people for being un-optimal let alone shame people period. 
 

4 hours ago, Misuto said:

Maybe I'm not grasping the point of the topic

Think of it like one of your boss speedruns, only instead of trying to kill as many bosses as quickly as possible solo, you're trying to prevent as many deaths as possible by setting up health/hunger/sanity farms for 20 people as quickly as possible with a single partner. 

 

4 hours ago, Misuto said:

wormwood can produce 420 mushrooms without spores as each log gives 4 growth cycles and each growth cycle net gains 3 mushrooms. This could combo with Wicker if needed

I did not know that Horticulture works on mushroom planters. Interesting... Time to crunch some more numbers. 

Also, could you explain why it has to be a tent in particular and not something like a siesta lean-to? 

 

6 hours ago, Misuto said:

In this situation it can be expected that different people are preforming different jobs and gathering/farming useful materials

I don't think you can make that assumption though; if anything, in this situation, people would deliberately avoid those jobs in order to scavenge for food (on a map with a smaller carrying capacity mind you) to survive let alone healing and sanity sources. I would assume some people will take on jobs for specific materials AFTER the health/hunger/sanity-sustaining farm(s) have been made. 
 

[Sweaper]

3 hours ago, Rinkusan said:

Could you point out where and how I've been "ignoring a lot of cons of x" in this thread?

Quote

inexpensively taking care of all 3 player stats.

Time is a resource.

Quote

Here you're literally comparing the worst case scenario to the best case scenario, I do not see how this comparison is fair. - Someone other than OP

Quote

I only gave a scenario where all 18 of them were base sitters to make a point about how efficient potatoes are. In other words, the entire premise of your first point doesn't really apply here because this is a thread about using potatoes to be a better team player in public servers.

________________________

Quote

One thing is noticing a good thing about an item, another is saying x is better (or the best) than y by ignoring a lot of cons of x, that's when a lot of people jumped in to say otherwise and with a good reason for that.

Quote

It seems like you're implying that you have a problem with the discussion that followed after my OP. If nerdy conversations about the benefits and shortcomings of certain methods bothers you, then this thread might not be your cup of tea. 

One thing is stating what happened in this thread, another is saying that I have a problem with the discussion even though even I am part of the discussion, the problem was clearly you stating potatoes "are the best" over everything else, there was a problem in that statement, so everyone jumped in to discuss. Stop projecting or being defensive if you are, discussions never bothered me.

[Lennard]

I wouldn't say potatoes specifically. Crops, in general, are honestly quite good. You don't really need to farm specific crops. Just have some advanced farms and throw random seeds in it. You can get a variety of crops that can keep all stats pretty well. Pumpkin can be eaten cooked for 37.5 hunger and can be turned to cookies for sanity. Cooked eggplant gives 20hp. Watermelons can be turned to popsicles for sanity and coolness.

A lot of people say that farming is useless and you are a noob if you use them but this is honestly just wrong. Sure there might be other more viable strategies like having a spider farm, pig farm, berry farm. Getting cactuses for sanity and etc. I'm not saying these are bad but farming is honestly pretty good. If you have a koala cage or live close to bats or beefalos than you can get lots of manure and guano and just produce food that'll keep all stats up well infinitely. The only time it doesn't work is during winter besides that you can just keep farming all day without having to worry about getting meat for meatballs or berries for fillers and etc.

Anyways this was a bit of a rant about farming rather than talking about the effectiveness of potatoes. But oh well.

[Rinkusan]

4 hours ago, Sweaper said:

Time is a resource.

________________________

One thing is stating what happened in this thread, another is saying that I have a problem with the discussion even though even I am part of the discussion, the problem was clearly you stating potatoes "are the best" over everything else, there was a problem in that statement, so everyone jumped in to discuss. Stop projecting or being defensive if you are, discussions never bothered me.

Time absolutely is a resource, and I have not been ignoring it as a factor at all. I don't know why you're specifically quoting my OP when there's a whole 3 pages of discussion. I even made it super-clear that I underestimated the production speed of honey per bee box but also pointing out the insane amount of time it takes to set up a sufficient honey farm. 

I missed that quote from Easonade, but I unintentionally answered it 3 comments prior by pointing out that I vastly underestimated bee box production when someone is present, hence why I used the 1 honey per day metric. With that being said, the 60-potato scenario that I was playing out is not best-case scenario by any stretch of the imagination. If anything, it's worse than worst-case scenario because not only does it actually take less than 60 potatoes thanks to the extra random crops from regular seeds; it doesn't even represent the farm I was arguing for in the first place since I was arguing for a potato-priority farm, not a potato-only farm. I clarified this in my first reply to Misuto, pointing out that I  regret muddying the water by mentioning a 60 potato farm all for the sake of quick math to make a point.   

Regarding your last point, this is what you said:

On 1/11/2020 at 6:48 AM, Sweaper said:

I didn't have a problem with the original post, but then OP argued with someone about farming being better than honey and later better than other stuff.

This implies that you didn't have a problem with the OP, but you had a problem with the discussion that happened afterwards. I don't see why the latter is a problem at all just like I don't see why arguing that honey farms are better is a problem.

[Sweaper]

27 minutes ago, Rinkusan said:

I have not been ignoring it as a factor at all

You ignored, at first, hence the quote and why you thought potatoes were the best.

Quote

This implies that you didn't have a problem with the OP, but you had a problem with the discussion that happened afterwards. I don't see why the latter is a problem at all just like I don't see why arguing that honey farms are better is a problem.

Quote

conversations about the benefits and shortcomings of certain methods bothers you

Having a problem doesn't make this thread a bother to me as you wondered if it was. You might be thinking another meaning of the word "problem", if so that was my mistake for using the word, English isn't my first language.

[Whisperlisc]

On 9.01.2020 at 4:25 PM, GetRektKids said:

On 7.01.2020 at 9:16 AM, Rinkusan said:

 

this came to my mind hile reading your post XD

New crock pot dish - potatoes and molasses good for sanity(50), health(50) and hunger (35). I would like that.

[Rinkusan]

4 hours ago, Sweaper said:

You ignored, at first, hence the quote and why you thought potatoes were the best.

Having a problem doesn't make this thread a bother to me as you wondered if it was. You might be thinking another meaning of the word "problem", if so that was my mistake for using the word, English isn't my first language.

No worries; thanks for clarifying that English isn't your first language. With that being said though, 'ignored' means to intentionally disregard something. I didn't mention time as a resource in the OP, but I also didn't ignore it as the bulk of page 2 clearly shows. 

It sounds like you don't actually "have a problem" with the conversation so much as you just disagree with my potato argument. Given the context of the rest of your comment as well as the comment you were replying to, it sounded like you were saying that "x is better than y" discussions are a problem. 

3 hours ago, Kuba5565 said:

New crock pot dish - potatoes and molasses good for sanity(50), health(50) and hunger (35). I would like that.

Cartoon Network; good times. I wouldn't mind a Jawbreaker or Katz Kandy added to the game myself. 

[Xenologist]

Did someone already mention the potato cup? If not it explains itself

[GetNerfedOn]

28 minutes ago, Xenologist said:

Did someone already mention the potato cup? If not it explains itself

We need to be able to craft this.

[Whisperlisc]

5 hours ago, GetNerfedOn said:

We need to be able to craft this.

We don't need to craft it, just find those in graves. But how did dead people got these?

[CameoAppearance]

13 hours ago, Bothead said:

I wouldn't say potatoes specifically. Crops, in general, are honestly quite good. You don't really need to farm specific crops. Just have some advanced farms and throw random seeds in it. You can get a variety of crops that can keep all stats pretty well. Pumpkin can be eaten cooked for 37.5 hunger and can be turned to cookies for sanity. Cooked eggplant gives 20hp. Watermelons can be turned to popsicles for sanity and coolness.

A lot of people say that farming is useless and you are a noob if you use them but this is honestly just wrong. Sure there might be other more viable strategies like having a spider farm, pig farm, berry farm. Getting cactuses for sanity and etc. I'm not saying these are bad but farming is honestly pretty good. If you have a koala cage or live close to bats or beefalos than you can get lots of manure and guano and just produce food that'll keep all stats up well infinitely. The only time it doesn't work is during winter besides that you can just keep farming all day without having to worry about getting meat for meatballs or berries for fillers and etc.

Anyways this was a bit of a rant about farming rather than talking about the effectiveness of potatoes. But oh well.

In my opinion, crops are a good fire-and-forget secondary food source. Seeds are plentiful on default worldgen settings and once they grow you can do a lot for your sanity and health with watermelons, pomegranates, eggplants, pumpkins, and potatoes either raw, by cooking them over a fire, or with simple and easy crockpot recipes. They take a while to grow, but don't need any player intervention beyond planting them in the first place (and either the startup cost of building advanced farms to plant them in or being/switching to Wormwood, I suppose); fertilizer items and Advanced Horticulture books are only necessary to make them grow faster.

What I'd do is use stone fruit or honey from bee boxes as the backbone of my dinner menu because they're faster, but keep the farms planted for harvesting every now and then, because more food and more variety of food can only help us and it's not as if we're going to run out of seeds.

[Easonade]

On 1/12/2020 at 11:57 AM, Rinkusan said:

If anything, it's worse than worst-case scenario because not only does it actually take less than 60 potatoes thanks to the extra random crops from regular seeds; it doesn't even represent the farm I was arguing for in the first place since I was arguing for a potato-priority farm, not a potato-only farm.

Actually, no.

Wicker+Wormwood is by definition op in regards to food production, with or without potatoes. (You can plant all lesser crops like carrot or corn and still feed a ridiculous amount of people). Therefore in this case it's not that potatoes are especially powerful, it's actually the duo that's optimal. Thus you arguing potatoes are good under the premise of Wicker+Wormwood is putting it under the best case scenario.

Whereas honey production is op for whatever team you happen to have under basically any circumstances.

[Yuuko]

@Misuto About the bee farm you posted: I'm assuming each square is a turf square, is that a single flower centered in each purple turf?  Or is that a cluster of flowers?

[Rinkusan]

5 hours ago, Easonade said:

Actually, no.

Wicker+Wormwood is by definition op in regards to food production, with or without potatoes. (You can plant all lesser crops like carrot or corn and still feed a ridiculous amount of people). Therefore in this case it's not that potatoes are especially powerful, it's actually the duo that's optimal. Thus you arguing potatoes are good under the premise of Wicker+Wormwood is putting it under the best case scenario.

Whereas honey production is op for whatever team you happen to have under basically any circumstances.

Not at all because Wicker+Wormwood is PART of the scenario in the first place. Wicker+Wormwood is not at all by-definition OP with regard to food production; whether they are optimal or not is part of this conversation. In fact, people in the past 2 pages - you included - have made the argument that the duo is suboptimal compared to another duo's honey farms.

The reason the hypothetical 60-potato farm is FAR from best-case scenario is because 1) it straight-up subtracts the yield from the regular seeds you get when you feed any crop to the bird 2) it doesn't represent the farm I was arguing for in the first place. 

My comparison of the honey farm with the 60-potato farm was unfair because I vastly underestimated the honey production per bee box. It has nothing to do with a "best case vs worst case scenario" comparison because both are awful scenarios, with one being a worst-case scenario of an inferior version of the farm I was arguing for in the OP, and I only mentioned this inferior farm so that I could do some quick math to make a point. 

 

4 hours ago, Shosuko said:

@Misuto About the bee farm you posted: I'm assuming each square is a turf square, is that a single flower centered in each purple turf?  Or is that a cluster of flowers?

I forgot to ask you and Misuto about this a while ago, but do you guys use 4 flowers per bee box?

Also, sorry for taking ages to get back to you about the bee farm and all my number crunching; I'm still working on it unfortunately. I have quite a lot of numbers to share when I'm done, but right now, I'm working on finding the fastest possible way to get the honey farm for 20 people up and running (which so far seems to be this method's biggest weakness). So far, I've brainstormed a few methods that involve a blue gem from gravedigging or ice+mosquito sacks, but I haven't done the actual experiment yet.