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Please Address Moon Glass Farming


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5 hours ago, gghhrr said:

there are a lots more items no one need too

they are still in-game for few years and yet no change until now

I don't really see pretty much complaints about them

 

there are just a few items can be made with moon glass only now

besides, moon glass isn't the only product provided from lunar land and ocean

 

I would rather wait more new contents related to moon glass, and complain about this

Ok but just because there's already deadbeat items why is it suddenly appropriate to make more? Just because some things obtain the same treatment doesn't mean everything should?

Edit: Also while i'm at it, what items do you consider deadbeats? Are these items with really niche uses or do they just have direct upgrades too them?

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11 hours ago, Averagewx78main said:

Ok but just because there's already deadbeat items why is it suddenly appropriate to make more? Just because some things obtain the same treatment doesn't mean everything should?

Edit: Also while i'm at it, what items do you consider deadbeats? Are these items with really niche uses or do they just have direct upgrades too them?

most of them are in magic tier or ancient tier and we are not essentially need

some of them like Tail o' Three Cats is pretty useless except for a little fun

because the cost to craft one is real expensive and painful but not really doing better than the best

 

I can't list all of them here, they do only exist for me when I'm playing like a nut in creative mode

spear, torch and backpack are exactly all I need in the normal game

 

you know I feel really sad when everybody give up those "deadbeat items"

they already have unique effect and no way we ask a rework for them

but I never find a chance crafting them because we "MUST" or "should"

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I don't know about the "needed" amount of Moon Glass some people might have, but to me this:

massive_glass_mining

..looks as "broken" as that glitch with giving a gland to some just-killed mob (most used on bosses like AG or Klaus) for producing absurd amounts of loot. One funny thing I find with this thread though is to see people in past "demanding all exploits be fixed" like path-finder and such, but now advocating for this particular... glitch?!... to be back-tracked on. For.. sake of consistency?! Hmm! I suppose "making the game more hard in late stages" is.... subjective *wink*

 

For me another thing is more pressing: Lunar Island, by all means looking at other biomes in game, seems pretty much.. done. And imo that's dull. Has about the same amount of vegetation and animals Deciduous Forest might have for example, yet is a bit problematic to reach and not very motivational, taking Ruins into account by comparison. Needs to be more flashed out to really matter, to be truly enticing to go to even if its number of particular elements (structures, wildlife, plants etc) is about the same as other game biomes'. Needs to be more dangerous, have at least 1 boss, those Gestalt-things should have more to them too..

And the new Ocean, oh the ocean! I do hope it will have A LOT more to it, be dangerous to navigate through, make that dumb (but useful, heh) "boat bridge" not applicable anymore (or at least requiring some anchoring or else boats drift and crash), some weather phenomenons to it, seasonal stuff maybe, again make it feel dynamic and alive. Same with Moon shards. And maybe have 2-3 more types of islands different from moon one, like some ocean shores exposed by the moon fragment's crashing down and subsequent flood - with their own micro biomes, mobs, plants, some loot etc (there were a lot of interesting ideas being circulated in these forums). We need motivation to visit Ocean and adjacent Islands.

Also for Moon-and-Charlie's sake, pls make some more "coming to get ye, chaps" mobs/bosses, not only optional stuff.

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3 hours ago, x0VERSUS1y said:

..looks as "broken" as that glitch with giving a gland to some just-killed mob (most used on bosses like AG or Klaus) for producing absurd amounts of loot.

Again, looks, not an arguement against it's mechanical implementation.

Please explain to me on how the now-patched gland glitch (a complete removal) is equivalent to this change in how Moon Glass is acquired.

To you, the ability to massively produce boss loot, which mind you, included Deerclops Eyeballs, Klaus stuff (as you mentioned), and the entire loot table of Ancient Guarian + the Large Ornate Chest (tons of Thulecite and Thulecite Gear, Ruins Gems, Ancient Gateway keys, Star Callers, and Lazy Explorers) is somehow equivalent to this change in Moon Glass production? 

Yet the most you can get out of having more Moon Glass is some Moon Axes that chop trees faster and Moon Cutters that have some slighty more durability than a Dark Sword for Shadows? (And more statues and craftable Moon Turf). 

The issue as I've said before is there is not enough Hot Springs in a world to get enough Moon Glass to play around with for 20 days of at least regular use. It doesn't necessarily have to be a reversion back to bath bomb spamming either since @Electroely's comment brings up a great point that the only way to obtain more Moon Glass is through these Hot Springs.

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2 hours ago, lakhnish said:

Again, looks, not an arguement against it's mechanical implementation.

Please explain to me on how the now-patched gland glitch (a complete removal) is equivalent to this change in how Moon Glass is acquired.

To you, the ability to massively produce boss loot, which mind you, included Deerclops Eyeballs, Klaus stuff (as you mentioned), and the entire loot table of Ancient Guarian + the Large Ornate Chest (tons of Thulecite and Thulecite Gear, Ruins Gems, Ancient Gateway keys, Star Callers, and Lazy Explorers) is somehow equivalent to this change in Moon Glass production?

Indeed, looks. Is not strictly-mechanical value equivalence, neither did I implied it. Ofc a handful of Moon Glass shards doesn't equate the value of 10 AG Horns or the like. But is about amount of a (supposedly rare) resource obtained per time unit. On a full winter moon you get a metric cr@p-ton of glass - at least it used to be like that. Then you can craft with it how many Moon Glass Axes and Glass Cutters you probably need 'till next year's full winter moon (obviously I didn't made any calculation and am not even bothering with it, is beyond the point). Maybe you stay 24/7 insane (GoGo Captn.EdgyBeak!) 'cause you also need 10 chests full of nf for.... stuff 'n' things... so that's justifying it, the amount of Moon Cutters. Very well. And then, because now there's no more reason to go to Lunar Island we pop on forums to complain about.. lack of reasons to go on Moon shard. Maybe have them Moon resources spawn at a more... challenging rate?! See from where to where am going with this?

As a personal note I again have a dead horse in this race: I don't stress with Moon Glass beyond what I can initially mine, make some Cutters and when those ran out... hello trusty Ham Bat, how we meet yet again!

Also, as always, too much exaggerations are being thrown left and right, just saying (exactly, my "equivalence" included, with a beer bottle in hand). Cheers!

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The moon is just so forgettable after the first trip. Think the only thing I really do there now is go on pubs, import regular resources to it, and encourage everyone to move there to see if anyone besides me can survive the lunacy mechanic. Usually the answer is no.

I agree that the previous behavior was buggy and needed to be changed...but it's one less out of the already few reasons there were to bother with the island. It could use something.
Maybe a sizable meteor field in the rock area of the island would be a good start. And some slow, automatic regen of the natural moon glass formations? Would make the hot springs more of a supplemental source.

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I would personally  still stick to needing the springs to cool down  b4 being able to form new glass from the bath bomb   but maybe enough of a cool down that it would be advantageous  to go to each moon pool  in a cycle   maybe like 10 seconds b4 the bath bomb becomes glass  so that way you can still bolster the amount of glass you get in a night past the current  spring limit?

 

 

With this I'm thinking like how fishing works if you want more fish in a short amount of time you swap ponds  fishing only 2 or 3 out of each.  That's where my idea comes from

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9 hours ago, maradyne said:

The moon is just so forgettable after the first trip. Think the only thing I really do there now is go on pubs, import regular resources to it, and encourage everyone to move there to see if anyone besides me can survive the lunacy mechanic. Usually the answer is no.

I agree that the previous behavior was buggy and needed to be changed...but it's one less out of the already few reasons there were to bother with the island. It could use something.
Maybe a sizable meteor field in the rock area of the island would be a good start. And some slow, automatic regen of the natural moon glass formations? Would make the hot springs more of a supplemental source.

This would be a good start.

I honestly wish there was more to do on the moon island. I only go there every autumn after some routine stuff(tree farm with bearger, kill bee queen w/catapults, farm blossoms via lune tree farm, etc.)

and all I do there is mine up the hot springs from when I last placed bath bombs, reapply new bath bombs, craft a few glass cutters then leave.

It saddens me a bit to see that klei went through the trouble of implementing a new mechanic(Lunacy/Enlightenment, a mechanic I really like actually!) on an island where you hardly do anything.

Imagine actually having a reason to stay on the moon island long term, so Lunacy would actually yknow... be an active threat... Right now since I drop my sanity to 0 usually before going to the moon island, I don't stay on the island long enough for lunacy to be an issue(even if I didn't wear items to keep my lunacy at 0).

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Okay I do agree on one thing, it was nerfed TOO much.

I agree on a nerf, the bath bomb spam imo deserved the nerf.

But this is just punishing players for not literally dropping everything their doing to go boat back to moon island every 40 days.
20191011182319_1.thumb.jpg.27a97cb79b050be68bc35bdce47b44ee.jpg

I wish the springs still returned like pre-nerf if it's not a full moon. This threw a wrench in my autumn routine.
I dislike the moon island during Winter or Summer, and I'd rather not dump spring plans to go babysit moon island. The autumn routine was how I liked it.

Klei please, this is nerfing the springs TOO much. Punishing the players for not dropping everything they do to go back to this island again and deal with the easilly ignorable lunacy mechanic every 40 days is absurd, considering most moon glass stuff is hardly worth it, heck later in a world, moon glass axes imo are just a waste of resources, and glass cutters I have literally for one purpose, shadows.

Tempted to just go back to my old method of farming shadows with a hambat, cause having to do my moon island routine every other autumn doesn't sound like fun.

I feel like Klei wanted to fix an exploit, but patched it so hard it screwed those of us just trying to play at our own pace...

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The best thing about this is how the nerf was made so you can't mass-produce a inferior version of a dark-sword that drains no sanity and an axe that's only good for the toadstool fight.

The items themselves needs a buff imo,they should be more durable if you're going to waste your time crafting them.

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Continuing from my previous post, heres how I think the springs should work.

If it's been at least 20 days since a hot spring has crystalized, it should become a spring with water rather then a dried up spring when mined.

That way the nerf could be kept how it is without punishing players who like to take it slow. Going to moon island every 40 days just feels like a required chore for a resource not too worth it. :s

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Could return the insta-refill, but if the full moon is active, have liquid hot springs shoot up like geysers and be un-bombable.
IE, when you mine it, it does refill, but if it's a full moon, it immediately geysers up and can't be re-bombed until the phase is over.
This would make it so you can't spam-mine with full moon refill, but you can still mine and re-bomb in one trip without weird timing.

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The first time, I went with 7 or 8 bombs because I tought it was 1 per hot spring. I'm on console, and after the 1st bomb, when I saw I could do it more, I really thought it was a bug... A delay with PC servers, whatever, but I was surprised. Farming flowers is long but its not difficult, so I think it was too OP.

Maybe a random number of uses could be good, between 1 and 3 per hot spring. Could make sense.

Maybe we'll get some other ways to find glass. In another new location ? From a ennemy or a boss with a glass attack, which let a kind of giant glass spike or boulder. 

Or maybe, like someone said, it had to be rare. The moon glass axe is very good for a rare fight, but its like a must have now. We could bet on new craftable items, rare and powerful. 

Its not a normal piece of land after all. Rare sounds good, but Id like to see it complete...

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I'm going to sum up my side and OP's side here so we can get to an agreement and try to get this function back.

The nerf for the moon glass, was absolutely un-needed, in practice, pre-nerf moon-glass farming was not an imbalance of any kind, as for the items you get using moon glass aren't good enough to be considered an imbalance. If KLEI actually planned to add incredible items to the crafting-station, then they could've done something else because this also halts late game farming too, and having too rely on world gen is by far a poor way and there are multiple ways to balance this and not make gaining moon rocks obsolete.

For example, decrease the cooldown from 20 days, to 5 minutes but don't make them full moon exclusive? Or bring the old system back because this is totally balanced considering how, and I keep repeating, that these items aren't good enough to be this difficult to mass-produce, you previously couldn't and still can't do this outside of a full moon, AND "it looks broken" solely because you're collecting a lot isn't a valid point (sorry but I felt like I should've expressed that too. 

Proof reading this, my ideas up here don't actually take into account if Klei actually added better and cooler items to the alter. My head is going a bit blank when it comes to these ideas, can you help me out here?

If a mod is created that implements the past mechanics I encourage you to test this out in a survival world because in practice it definitely was not op at at, I discourage use of commands because that is going to warp the results significantly, treat it like a science experiment.

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5 hours ago, Averagewx78main said:

I'm going to sum up my side and OP's side here so we can get to an agreement and try to get this function back.

The nerf for the moon glass, was absolutely un-needed, in practice, pre-nerf moon-glass farming was not an imbalance of any kind, as for the items you get using moon glass aren't good enough to be considered an imbalance. If KLEI actually planned to add incredible items to the crafting-station, then they could've done something else because this also halts late game farming too, and having too rely on world gen is by far a poor way and there are multiple ways to balance this and not make gaining moon rocks obsolete.

For example, decrease the cooldown from 20 days, to 5 minutes but don't make them full moon exclusive? Or bring the old system back because this is totally balanced considering how, and I keep repeating, that these items aren't good enough to be this difficult to mass-produce, you previously couldn't and still can't do this outside of a full moon, AND "it looks broken" solely because you're collecting a lot isn't a valid point (sorry but I felt like I should've expressed that too. 

Proof reading this, my ideas up here don't actually take into account if Klei actually added better and cooler items to the alter. My head is going a bit blank when it comes to these ideas, can you help me out here?

If a mod is created that implements the past mechanics I encourage you to test this out in a survival world because in practice it definitely was not op at at, I discourage use of commands because that is going to warp the results significantly, treat it like a science experiment.

I still think bath bomb spam was a good fix. I like the idea of the following.
-Make hot springs become filled with water after mining them if it's been at least 20 days since the spring crystalized. I feel like currently it's either be 100% optimal with going back to moon island or be punished for going at your own pace.
-Add an option to try to dig new hot springs on the island, in the event the world doesn't add enough, maybe using a complicated method. So late game it would be possible to increase the yield of moon glass per harvest and have a reason to make lots of bath bombs.

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9 hours ago, sinisterrkid said:

Mate, don't you know the update is still not over and that we will be getting new content still?

Doesn't change the fact that it's useless to farm in the current build. The next patch will not gonna come any time soon so there's no point to nerf it right now.

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I don't know if Klei is going to add stuff with glass-made

the most simple ways to fix the balance you want

1. each moon shard drop 3-4 or 5-6 moon glasses

2. shattered spider has chance drop moon glass instead of gland

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