How to tame your volcano.

[Tonyroid]

After a lot of research, doing a good job of this isn't as easy as it seems, even if you already think you are are awesome at it. (Or, maybe you are awesome at it, there ARE people who are awesome at it, it could be you.)

 

 

[0xFADE]

It can show the errors of deviating from the design during tutorial implementation. 

[MorsDux]

best design I have seen so far

[karyuendan08]

I am building it, thanks for the tutorial.

[mathmanican]

8 hours ago, Tonyroid said:

After a lot of research

If you were not aware of bead formations, you can force magma to bead and drop in 120kg beads of liquid (it's also the maximum flow downwards if you use waterfall mechanics).  This allow you to choose how rapidly you want to cool magma. All that is needed is one tiny blob of something like liquid gold (holds it liquid form through the entire magma  range).  The pictures below uses a waterfall.  Have it drop off the right side and you'll get beads instead of a waterfall, which guarantees that the liquid up top will never interact with the cooling plate (ideal). If I did this gif again, I'd drop off the right side. 

The igneous rock appropriate holds it temperature. You can use this setup like this to drop all the rock on a 3 door setup, so you can trap the rock inside the middle door, and then extract all the heat in much less space.

I love your vids.  They make me think of possible improvements.  I'm pretty sure you could shrink your thermally battery quite a bit with this. 

[Tonyroid]

5 hours ago, karyuendan08 said:

I am building it, thanks for the tutorial.

Omg, awesome. Your aesthetics are better than mine.

2 hours ago, mathmanican said:

If you were not aware of bead formations, you can force magma to bead and drop in 120kg beads of liquid (it's also the maximum flow downwards if you use waterfall mechanics).  This allow you to choose how rapidly you want to cool magma. All that is needed is one tiny blob of something like liquid gold (holds it liquid form through the entire magma  range).  The pictures below uses a waterfall.  Have it drop off the right side and you'll get beads instead of a waterfall, which guarantees that the liquid up top will never interact with the cooling plate (ideal). If I did this gif again, I'd drop off the right side. 

The igneous rock appropriate holds it temperature. You can use this setup like this to drop all the rock on a 3 door setup, so you can trap the rock inside the middle door, and then extract all the heat in much less space.

I love your vids.  They make me think of possible improvements.  I'm pretty sure you could shrink your thermally battery quite a bit with this. 

Holy crap. I was definitely not aware of this. Well... I knew about bead pumps but I didn't include this concept in my designs. This could change everything. I might end up doing a whole re-design, but I need to play around with this idea first. How do you know all these obscure details? I think you might be even more addicted to this than I am (that a compliment).

[mathmanican]

12 minutes ago, Tonyroid said:

I think you might be even more addicted to this than I am (that a compliment).

Haha!  Well, I have developed insomnia recently, and I'm not sure if ONI is the cause, or the solution...  It's at least what I do when I can't sleep. 

Discovering all the stuff is just plain fun. When you see something acting weird, just try to reproduce it.  Then figure out all the ways to reproduce it reliably.  Then build crazy contraptions out of it. Do this for 2 years... 

Oh, and it helps having a job that is focused on finding patterns (mathematician) and coming up with theorems. I'm guessing your profession is also in the sciences.  One of my favorite parts about the forums is the fact that we get to nerd out together about an alternate reality.  

[Tonyroid]

Just now, mathmanican said:

Haha!  Well, I have developed insomnia recently, and I'm not sure if ONI is the cause, or the solution...  It's at least what I do when I can't sleep. 

Discovering all the stuff is just plain fun. When you see something acting weird, just try to reproduce it.  Then figure out all the ways to reproduce it reliably.  Then build crazy contraptions out of it. Do this for 2 years... 

Oh, and it helps having a job that is focused on finding patterns (mathematician) and coming up with theorems. I'm guessing your profession is also in the sciences.  One of my favorite parts about the forums is the fact that we get to nerd out together about an alternate reality.  

I have a BS in computer science. I worked in the industry for 8 years and quit in favor of doing whatever I feel like. Lately, it's this. The background in CS is definitely helpful.

[Ketmol]

I kind of think all the above is overly complicated. Just create a vacuum room around volcano and make a U form build inside vacuum below volcano for magma to build up. Place robo-miners and cool them same way as you would in space (to clear any magma solidifying. Then radiant pipes through where the magma will be, run something that can handle enough heat (hydrogen for example) through the pipes. Now you will be able to transfer the heat from the magma via the radiant pipes to anywhere you want. 

[mathmanican]

10 minutes ago, Ketmol said:

Place robo-miners and cool them same way as you would in space

This causes you to loose half the mass, once it solidifies, thereby loosing half the power.  Of course, there is already a surplus of power, so it works just fine. But for those who want to keep that power, something else is required. 

1 hour ago, Tonyroid said:

This could change everything.

Here is a sketch of an alternate design. 

Spoiler

There are several working parts:

1. The magma from a volcano (or 400 volcanoes, doesn't matter) gets compacted to a tiny 4 by 4 block. This uses two gases (hydrogen and carbon dioxide here) to create a liquid infinite storage unit. 
2. When the steam temp is below 200 (or some other automation that seems appropriate - go to 500 if you want to cook crude to petro instead), the door opens. Liquid can only move so fast sideways. Despite there being >20000kg of magma per tile in the little box, the liquid beads down in 120kg chunks. Above the liquid gold, the magma content stays around 300kg. The right side of the open door stays at 540.3kg.  The flow rate it completely throttled. Once the temp in the steam room hits near your desired amount, close the door. A little magma goes right, most goes back into confinement.
3. The magma beads down, interacting with each wall along the way. I decided to make both sides out of diamond window tiles, so I have more contact area (there may be a better option). The liquid solidifies as a bead, and drops as a 120kg rock. It combines with the bottom unfortunately still forming 100 ton piles (even in the doors), so you can run into the 100 ton pile limit problem. 
4. The three doors at the bottom can be cycled to trap the solid inside the doors, sucking all the heat out till the rock won't transfer any more heat.

It will probably be more efficient to just let the rock drop to a mesh tile, and then periodically have a sweeper move the rock through the tiles to the other side of the turbine room, where the rock can sit trapped inside doors to bleed the remaining heat. Then both sides of the turbine room get heated, and hopefully you avoid the 100 ton problem. 

On second thought, after playing with this quite a bit, I don't appear to be loosing any rock.  A new pile gets formed.  I wonder if the bigger capacity mod is affecting this... 

Here is a save file if you want to play with it. 

VolcanoTamer.sav

[Lifegrow]

1 hour ago, mathmanican said:

Haha!  Well, I have developed insomnia recently, and I'm not sure if ONI is the cause, or the solution...  It's at least what I do when I can't sleep. 

Saaaame - video will be uploaded shortly - you'll see how sleepy this last one made me

Making a video and balancing 3 derpy "visual aids" wasn't a project to undertake in the wee hours...

[SkunkMaster]

Consider a vertical magma channel, that would make your build much more scale-able, while also making your turbines run more evenly at 100% efficiency. 

[0xFADE]

Maths designs are very clean. That dropper is super nice looking.

[karyuendan08]

Entire base feed by this bad boy.

[Lifegrow]

34 minutes ago, karyuendan08 said:

Entire base feed by this bad boy.

With a good build, you should be able to feed many bases  

Magma is strong - it was finite once upon a time, nowadays Klei have gone all crazy and given us all the things. ALL THE THINGS! Gold from space?! What's next? Nutella Geysers? ....

 

Delicious.

[karyuendan08]

when i start the space run i wil try to tweak it a litle, try to get back some of that igneos rock stuck inside the doors.

[DRAKCORE]

You guys are making it too complex.

Just get some diamond/window tile to hold the magma in a vacuum with doors to regulate the heat to your steam engine and if you really want to get fancy. just automate at the bottom by adding a robo-miner+auto-sweeper to mine and pickup the magma once it hardens at 1400, have the items picked up and plonked into the steam to further suck the heat out till the low temps and once the temps hit x amount set it to get picked up at a cool 125'C+-.

*Note you will need to add a liquid that can withstand 100C with circulation from the steam engine to cool the items in the vacuum or else they slowly heat until poof from picking up the hot goodness.

[mathmanican]

6 minutes ago, DRAKCORE said:

adding a robo-miner

 

On 8/29/2019 at 2:27 AM, mathmanican said:

This causes you to loose half the mass

 

[DRAKCORE]

Sure you loose half the mass / heat. Thought was fixed and with it suspended without touching the sides a Vacuum ensures no loss at all. If that is the case then just let it suck up all the heat having a double layer system. Window tile sealed with water over magma in a vacuum, once it reaches x temp pickup. Def more sore with iron volcano's.

[badgamer123]

is the second one  a bug?

[beowulf2010]

On 8/29/2019 at 1:27 AM, mathmanican said:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. The magma from a volcano (or 400 volcanoes, doesn't matter) gets compacted to a tiny 4 by 4 block. This uses two gases (hydrogen and carbon dioxide here) to create a liquid infinite storage unit.

Sorry to slightly derail the thread, but in regards to this style of liquid storage, have you found a minimum amount of gas necessary or maximum amount of liquid that can be stored? 

I recently built one to drain the subsurface ocean and the gas/waterfall compression part failed. The 400ish grams of CO2 disappeared (3kg or so of hydrogen in the other gas cell) at some point. I had around 160,000kg total of liquid in the 4 cells when it failed (32,000kg in each of the 5 cells after the CO2 disappeared). 

I'm trying to figure out if this is a one off glitch failure or if I need to build my future ones a bit better with higher gas pressures to avoid compression failure. 

[mathmanican]

54 minutes ago, beowulf2010 said:

the gas/waterfall compression part failed.

Got a screen shot of your compression unit?  When my failed, I figured out why it failed, and then built the liquid-gas bypass because of it. I have another interesting mechanic happening currently with 3 liquids and vacuum.

I have not seen any maximum or minimum amounts.  What I have seen is that the build itself can cause the problem, but maybe there is a limit.  

[beowulf2010]

1 minute ago, mathmanican said:

Got a screen shot of your compression unit?  When my failed, I figured out why it failed, and then built the liquid-gas bypass because of it. I have another interesting mechanic happening currently with 3 liquids and vacuum.

I have not seen any maximum or minimum amounts.  What I have seen is that the build itself can cause the problem, but maybe there is a limit.  

I'll have to rebuild a couple parts. I took out the top door and a couple other blocks to let it drain naturally when my pump finally emptied the storage. I'll start a new thread tonight. 

I've built a few dozen of these in the past and never had them fail. But in the spirit of full disclosure, I'd always used sandbox to put 3kg of gas in each tile. This is only the second one I've built without cheating on the gasses in the chamber which is why I had to little CO2 compared to the hydrogen. 

[mathmanican]

1 minute ago, beowulf2010 said:

I've built a few dozen of these in the past and never had them fail.

The only time I had one fail was because I decided to use less solid tiles across the top. That enables the bypass pump to such out gas. It doesn't take much stray liquid for that to happen.  The fact that it was your CO2, and not the top gas, suggests it is not this issue. 

I have heard that tiny amounts of gas will get deleted by a much higher pressure gas. I wonder if the same is true if liquid pressure gets too high....  Time for tests. 

[mathmanican]

1 hour ago, beowulf2010 said:

have you found a minimum amount of gas necessary or maximum amount of liquid that can be stored?

I had 2 mcg hydrogen and 32 mcg co2 (yes micrograms) holding back >300000kg of salt water. Gonna build a door compressor to see how high the liquid limit it.