We need more tool to manage the heat

[Nightinggale]

29 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

I personally feel a more mid-game ice system is needed.  Something that can be built with basic materials, and automated, but that isn't as effective/efficient as late game options.  Even if that's just an automated ice maker and chiller. I'm not really an idea guy here; but I'm right on board that there's a mid-game map-independent gap in heat management that's sorely needed.

Sounds like you want something like this (I posted the same link on page 1). The idea is the ice maker starts out the same (more or less), but techs allows it to be a bit better step by step, making it scale better for mid game and you can end up with a dupe free fully automated system, which is controlled by thermo sensors if you want to go all out.

[Lurve]

23 hours ago, bmilohill said:

My question is has anyone actually lost a base to heat since the update?

I remember a year ago when I was first learning the game where half of my colonies wouldn't make cycle 100 because of heat (while the rest wouldn't make it for other reasons). These days because I know what I'm doing, I can't imagine losing a base on any of the asteroids. 

Heat deletion has changed, so there are new things to learn. We should spend a few months figuring out the best strats before making statements like 'there are no heat management options.'

I've lost one.  It had the volcanoes trait, and open magma was pouring out less than a screen away from the printing pod.  My dupes tried their best but their turkeys were cooked.  But that seems like the kind of edge case I should lose.  They can't all be winners. 

 

For the most part I play a bunch of Aridio, and find the ice maker to be more than suitable for cooling down mealwood farms.  Just make a little insulated cup pointed at the next biome over to dump heat into, build three ice makers in there and you're set until you want to free up the dupe labor using aquatuners.

That said I agree there's a need for mid-game cooling, because ice maker -> aquatuners is clearly the best route. 

The Fan is kinda crappy, because it only warms water to 5C, at which point a dupe WILL take it to be destroyed in the science machine.  As a result it's more labor per cooling than storing the ice and mopping up the warm water.  If it warmed to the temperature of the machine, I'd use it more.

Thermoregulators also get ignored in my games.  They have the same research reqs as aquatuners, are in their own little tree with gas storage solutions I won't need for a long while, are less efficient in power and heat transfer, and overheat much faster, so I've never found a niche for them.  If they were cheap enough to spam all over wherever a little cooling was required, I could make a ring of heat expulsion around my base using leftover circuit capacity, and that would compete with the aquatuner's giant centralized cooling+heat destruction model.

[Dosephshih]

I think there is a large jump from ice maker to turbine, when I done a turbine setup, then I feel the game is done. 

The problem is the game before u can build turbine is less enjoyable for me.

my proposal is just to make the e-fan auto or create a machine which can cool between ice maker stage and turbine stage, and not too difficult to set up.

EDIT: just remember the petrol generator still can delete heat by burning hot petrol? since it output at the Temperature of the machine. But this would need some Steel made machine.

[doubledgedboard]

6 hours ago, Dosephshih said:

my proposal is just to make the e-fan auto or create a machine which can cool between ice maker stage and turbine stage, and not too difficult to set up.

a powered e-fan would be great, since I feel like the current iteration of wheezeworts feels like they want to deprecate them, and e-fans could step up to the plate in their place

[nakomaru]

On 7/14/2019 at 2:04 AM, mathmanican said:

Has anyone played with running 4C food through rails to cool a base? The fridge destroys heat in food.

I should have known you were behind this!

[simonchvz]

21 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

The issue here is that creating heat is trivial - there's lots of good options there all over the tech tree.  Particularly low level heat (space heater, liquid tepidizer) is great.  These are good options, as there's ways to move heat to an area, or to simply create it, all over the tech tree and on any map.

The problem is that cooling doesn't come anywhere close to heating.  

On 7/13/2019 at 9:47 PM, KittenIsAGeek said:

Apparently I stand alone when I say that the current thermal management buildings are diverse, engaging, and work well.  I personally don't see a need to further complicate the game. 

Would it be a fair compromise between these two POV to say that early-mid game heat management is fairly robust, but early game heat deletion is not? It seems relatively straightforward to me to move heat from point A to point B via the aquatuner and doesn't require much tech/difficult resources - 1200 gold amalgram and some tons of igneous rock + a sewage pond isn't that onerous.  You just can't really get rid of that heat effectively until steam, space, or some combination of consumption/AETN/ice+dupe time.

My bias is towards @KittenIsAGeek's POV, but I can see how the drive towards sustainability and/or elegant planning rubs against the current options.  I think early base cooling in the current system has to take the form of a temporary solution that can be permanently solved later, which grinds a lot of teeth when the system could previously be set up to forever solve small areas of concern with a wheeze or three.

[Sebastiangperez]

Mafic Rock works great has insulator, works for me in Cold Asteroid. 

BTW , its me o this asteroid is one of the easiest ? 

 

[mathmanican]

14 hours ago, nakomaru said:

I should have known you were behind this!

Haha!  I may have sparked the posting to happen sooner, but @Blazing Falken did all the work independently, and before I made a wize crack about it. All credit goes there.  

[greggbert]

I think there should be a machine called a thermal infrared emitter that must be built on the surface.  Inputs are hydrogen gas and electricity.   It should have a capacitor/tanks that take in a certain amount of hydrogen and build it up (like the metal refinery does liquids),  And an electric capacitor that builds up electricity (like the transport tube access).   Once the hydrogen and power level are full it will produce a huge burst of thermal infrared energy into space and then the liquid hydrogen drains out.     

[Cryptolocker]

Perhaps once radiation is in (seems like it's in the works based on assets), and the light properties of materials gets fully fleshed out, we will have a way to radiate energy into the vacuum of space without losing materials. Personally, I think the easiest thing to do as a stopgap until then' would be to make shinebugs (or some variant) consume/convert heat to produce it's light energy. Kind of absurd the amount of free power you get out of them anyways.

[bobucles]

3 hours ago, Cryptolocker said:

Kind of absurd the amount of free power you get out of [shinebugs] anyways.

You mean half a dozen dedicated ranchers, haulers and a dedicated area of base, for 600 watts?

[Lurve]

On 7/15/2019 at 3:20 PM, greggbert said:

I think there should be a machine called a thermal infrared emitter that must be built on the surface.  Inputs are hydrogen gas and electricity.   It should have a capacitor/tanks that take in a certain amount of hydrogen and build it up (like the metal refinery does liquids),  And an electric capacitor that builds up electricity (like the transport tube access).   Once the hydrogen and power level are full it will produce a huge burst of thermal infrared energy into space and then the liquid hydrogen drains out.     

Only if graphically it is obviously a giant space laser.  I like the irony of researching, building and charging a deadly space weapon, then firing it off into the void at random because it cools you down.

[paoweeotter]

This game should really be called Heat Always Included.

[Nightinggale]

1 minute ago, paoweeotter said:

This game should really be called Heat Always Included.

Wouldn't that require Rime to be removed? Then again I just started a new game on Rime and I have a steam geyser and two hidden geysers visible without leaving the starting biome. Turns out the hidden geysers are a volcano and a gold volcano. What's this nonsense about Rime being cold?

[PhailRaptor]

On 7/15/2019 at 12:20 PM, greggbert said:

I think there should be a machine called a thermal infrared emitter that must be built on the surface.  Inputs are hydrogen gas and electricity.   It should have a capacitor/tanks that take in a certain amount of hydrogen and build it up (like the metal refinery does liquids),  And an electric capacitor that builds up electricity (like the transport tube access).   Once the hydrogen and power level are full it will produce a huge burst of thermal infrared energy into space and then the liquid hydrogen drains out.     

This would be a fantastic option for the removal of heat, and provide an alternative to the production of liquid Hydrogen for Rockets.

However, it doesn't really address the lack of an early-mid heat 'holding action' (formerly Wheezeworts) that won't also consume all of your Dupe's time to be effective (Ice Maker).

[Wintersdark]

On 7/14/2019 at 12:09 PM, Nightinggale said:

Sounds like you want something like this (I posted the same link on page 1). The idea is the ice maker starts out the same (more or less), but techs allows it to be a bit better step by step, making it scale better for mid game and you can end up with a dupe free fully automated system, which is controlled by thermo sensors if you want to go all out.

Yeah, something like that.  I'm not particular to what it is, but just some reasonable mid-game means of removing heat.  I'm not particularly concerned with *how* it's accomplished, I just hope they do something.

 

That used to be wheezeworts.  I'm not sure how they are now post-balancing, because I've not been playing on a map with Ice biomes.  I've got it under control now, of course - I'm using a combination of methods such as electrolyzer based heat deletion and am well past the early/mid-game point where there's a lack.