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Why the duplicant build thing one by one ?


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Hello i am doing lot of ladder and the duplicant all the time bring only 50KG of Sandstone, build one, then go back take 50KG Sandstone and again and again, he can store far more than 50 KG, why wouldn't he take the more he can and build them all one once for all ?

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This is due to how the game engine works. A dupe will search through the list of chores and find the most important one to do. Delivering sandstone to an "under construction" building is one chore. Delivering to the building next to it is another chore.

First of all, combining multiple chores can be tricky, both to code and on performance. Because of this dupes can do it, but they won't always do it in cases where it would make sense to a human.

Another reason could be that dupe A delivers sandstone to one tile and dupe B delivers to the next tile. If you only use one dupe to deliver, that dupe could take sandstone for both, but that won't happen because both dupes detect delivering to the other tile as "already taken" and they can't steal chores from each other.

You could try to let one dupe deliver building materials at top priority and then let other dupes do other stuff. That will greatly increase the likelihood of delivering to more than one building at once because the delivery dupe won't have to steal chores from other dupes to do so. This means your base might be more efficient with a single strong and fast dupe delivering than using all dupes for deliveries. Not that deliveries will be much faster, but the same deliveries can be done in roughly the same time, but with fewer dupes, hence more dupes for other tasks.

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I've had my dupes bring materials for multiple segments of a wall, floor, ladder, etc all at once.  However, there are a few factors to keep in mind:

  1. Accessibility.  Can the dupe carrying the material easily reach multiple locations at once?  
  2. Strength.  I had a dupe with 0 strength that was supplying a build.  I didn't catch it right away.  Yes, its a problem.
  3. Priorities.  If your dupe has more pressing priorities, he'll switch tasks.

There are some other factors, but these are the big ones that I've seen.  If you're building a ladder like this, your dupes will ONLY build one or two ladders at a time. 

image.png.1b9df05998873b4e11b51310b8c3e83e.png

First, a dupe will deliver to the exposed segments and the first buried.  Then a dupe will dig out the buried segment that was just delivered to.  The segment will be built, and a dupe will deliver to the next buried segment.

If you build a ladder like this, then 3 or 4 segments will get built at once.

image.thumb.png.69fe557162ff69ba02fd3adc3d93aeaa.png

This is especially the case if the dig has higher priority than the build.  It means that 3 or 4 segments of the ladder can be accessible for delivery all at once.

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36 minutes ago, KittenIsAGeek said:

I've had my dupes bring materials for multiple segments of a wall, floor, ladder, etc all at once.  However, there are a few factors to keep in mind:

  1. Accessibility.  Can the dupe carrying the material easily reach multiple locations at once?  
  2. Strength.  I had a dupe with 0 strength that was supplying a build.  I didn't catch it right away.  Yes, its a problem.
  3. Priorities.  If your dupe has more pressing priorities, he'll switch tasks.

There are some other factors, but these are the big ones that I've seen.  If you're building a ladder like this, your dupes will ONLY build one or two ladders at a time. 

image.png.1b9df05998873b4e11b51310b8c3e83e.png

First, a dupe will deliver to the exposed segments and the first buried.  Then a dupe will dig out the buried segment that was just delivered to.  The segment will be built, and a dupe will deliver to the next buried segment.

If you build a ladder like this, then 3 or 4 segments will get built at once.

image.thumb.png.69fe557162ff69ba02fd3adc3d93aeaa.png

This is especially the case if the dig has higher priority than the build.  It means that 3 or 4 segments of the ladder can be accessible for delivery all at once.

Yes this is how i build my ladder, and the make them one by one, how can i fix this ? The game need lot of quality of life improvement i think

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Just now, harmonium said:

Yes this is how i build my ladder, and the make them one by one, how can i fix this ? The game need lot of quality of life improvement i think

Use the second method, where you dig out space so that they can build multiple segments at once.

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Just now, KittenIsAGeek said:

Use the second method, where you dig out space so that they can build multiple segments at once.

Ok i will try this, i was thinking not dig around would make me gain time, but i was wrong.

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The simple way to handle it is to have a dedicated digger, supplier and builder. First the digger will dig all tiles he can reach. Then the supplier will deliver materials to all ladder segments he can reach. Then the builder will build those segments. They will do 4 at a time as they can`t reach higher.

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Most of the slowdown is due to the order of tasks. Duplicants will first supply a ladder, then they will dig the dirt, then they will build the ladder. It is inefficient in terms of labor because every single ladder piece can be split between 3 duplicants and it can only be done 1 tile at a time.

Some of this slow nature helps to protect your duplicants. If a dupe decides to dig out a ladder completely before building it, they can end up stuck in a freshly dug pit without oxygen and no escape. 

You can personally make things faster by assigning dig tasks before finishing with ladders. Dupes can actually climb up a shaft if you dig it just right, so your dupes can focus on digging first and then have a clear area to build the ladders quickly.

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for the fastest way i know of to build is to take build all you stuff  in proper stages. ladders for instance, first dig out the working area in an 'S' shape when a sufficient part is done you start building ladders. if you prioritise your  building 1 point higher then your usual digging the digger will dig out those build tiles before his other tasks when material is delivered, if you do one lower then your builder will do the digging assuming the digger has other digging to do and the builder nothing of an higher priority. (builder will dig out dig/build tiles as he comes across it like a normal build tile, his dig priority doesn't matter even if he isn't allowed to dig)

20190624021841_1.thumb.jpg.7b4c9571f264decdc79584e30a244a05.jpg20190624021935_1.thumb.jpg.5774f28d0484f0388867df73e40048c5.jpg

while writing this comment i was wondering about those dupes that can't dig and this is what happened when i tested it.20190624024616_1.thumb.jpg.748bfb174afbe16a7714fcd7d50058b4.jpg

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1 hour ago, Moonshade said:

first dig out the working area in an 'S' shape

Agreed.

If you want lots of dupes to dig and make things super fast, then use this shape:

Once you have dug out the area, then lay the ladder.  You'll be surprised how "smart" the dupes are when they can access the entire area. If you just dig the ladder and straight up the sides, then builds are really slow. 

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What I like about this game is that it makes it obvious how difficult automated planning actually is. Even is some people chose to ignore that and claim everything is "simple" and Klei is just incompetent. You always have some reality-deniers.

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Yeah I've also been using the digging pattern that Moonshade showed for a while now, it really helps a lot. Also I tend to postpone or even skip putting in ladders at all and just stick to the digging pattern, depending on the location and traffic.

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4 hours ago, PaulV said:

Yeah I've also been using the digging pattern that Moonshade showed for a while now, it really helps a lot. Also I tend to postpone or even skip putting in ladders at all and just stick to the digging pattern, depending on the location and traffic.

It is pretty neat, agreed.

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